Talk:Melodrama (Lorde album)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Melodrama (Lorde album) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Melodrama (Lorde album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Melodrama (Lorde album) is the main article in the Melodrama series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 4, 2018	Good article nominee	Not listed
June 25, 2018	Good article nominee	Listed
December 20, 2018	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
July 30, 2019	Peer review	Reviewed
October 19, 2020	Good topic candidate	Promoted
Current status: Good article

Albums

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Albums, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AlbumsWikipedia:WikiProject AlbumsTemplate:WikiProject AlbumsAlbum articles

New Zealand: Music Mid‑importance

	New Zealand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the New Zealand music task force (assessed as High-importance).

Women in Music Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Lorde (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lorde, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.LordeWikipedia:WikiProject LordeTemplate:WikiProject LordeLorde articles

Electronic music Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Electronic music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Electronic music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Electronic musicWikipedia:WikiProject Electronic musicTemplate:WikiProject Electronic musicelectronic music articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pop music Mid‑importance

	Pop music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

2010s Low‑importance

	2010s portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject 2010s, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 2010s on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.2010sWikipedia:WikiProject 2010sTemplate:WikiProject 2010s2010s articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

"Green Light" draft

I don't want the article to be nominated for deletion too soon, so I started a draft for "Green Light" at Draft:Green Light (Lorde song). All are welcome to help expand! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 23:46, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Genre

Resolved

I have seen persistence from both those who push for "pop" as the genre for this album, as well as in depth sub genres that define the album well. I feel labelling the album wholly as "pop" does it a bit of injustice. The album on all streaming services was released by her and her label Lava and Republic under the "alternative" genre, keeping the emphasis on non conformity lyrically and musically. Many articles cited in the Composition section describe the album as industrial, glitchy electropop, synth pop, alternative pop, electronica. I think these sub genres should not be ignored.

The producers involved with the album have almost exclusive experience producing synth pop, electronic pop, downtempo, EDM, alternative rock/pop, hip hop, new wave, indie pop, trip hop and experimental. Not to say that these ALL should be included, but while the album is integrated in pop music, it embarks on a few other styles that keep her music unique and appealing.

Upon initial release, I noticed that it was labelled as "Art pop" here on wikipedia, and it was then taken down and replaced with Pop, which I still do not understand why people enjoy taking away important edits.

Many people have been blocked by simply attempting to change the genre from something other than pop which breaks my heart, especially when people are providing sources from acclaimed publications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exposur (talk • contribs) 05:18, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rate Your Music, the source used, is credible? No. The only confirmed genre is pop, which is more encompassing anyway. It's not a meaningful edit if it is not from a reliable source and untrue. A few genres I would like to discuss: Idolator says, and I quote, "Melodrama is as cathartic as the name suggests and a solid listen that effortlessly hops genres while remaining true to Lorde’s melancholic alt-pop roots". Can we interpret this as Idolator saying the album is alt-pop? Can we interpret this radio article as saying the album is synth-pop? Or this USA Today article eluding to the album consisting of electropop tunes? I'd like to think so, at least for Idolator source, but I want other input. Sidenote: THE SONGS were cited as "glitchy electropop", etc., or whatever. Not the album. Until a reliable source is given/added saying the album's genre is more than pop, please do not add other things. Aleccat 05:56, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Electropop source: https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/06/lorde-melodrama-review.html - ElectricController (talk page) 19:51, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Paste is credible. My issue was unreliable sources were being used. --Aleccat 20:08, 26 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Exposur: You have not gotten consensus for your changes to move electropop first. Please do this before changing again. @Aleccat: you may be interested to know this editor is continuing to move electropop first, despite your conclusion that pop is more encompassing. Ss 112 07:06, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ss112: Sorry for the week-late response, but I don't think the order matters. As long as the genres are properly cited, they can be added, and so far, only "electropop" and "pop" are cited. Aleccat 18:05, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I MUST agree with the first user. The album should not be classified as a pop album, since it is not. I have been witness of how my references are erased after providing good sources, probably the BEST ones in music world, Billboard and Itunes, both classify the album as Alternative. Clearly, this is not a pop kind of music, it is quite influenced by electronic music or pop on some songs though. On the other hand you do not cite sources for those genres and only insist on erasing correct information. If you really want to be neutral and not to express your viewpoint, stop doing that. For example you classify as genres electropop, however this is a subgenre and therefore it should not be included here. Citations for Alternative music genre. https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/melodrama/id1211010237 Alternative^[1]. Now, if you prefer keeping lying to yourselves and state that it is pop, Then go ahead. But do not expect people to take Wikipedia's information seriously. The least you could do is not to erase since we do not erases the Pop tag.

Pop is sourced in the composition section in the article. All you have linked to is Lorde's charting on the Billboard Alternative Songs chart. That's quite a broad genre chart, and that's not a critic calling Lorde or this album "alternative". Also, I'm assuming you're referring to iTunes' categorisation of Lorde as "Alternative"; again, this is a generic tag. This is multiple editors' view point, not just mine; you were also reverted by Aleccat. I think we're well aware electropop is a subgenre, but you don't really appear to have read past the first few lines of what the editor who created this section wrote; they appear to disagree with your assertion that electropop should not be included. Ss 112 12:44, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ss112: and @Hadriensaori: Thoughts on the alt-pop source described above? Aleccat 12:48, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, What do you want to think exactly? A review that classifies the album as Alt-pop. That's it. Here's another one considering it. https://prettymuchamazing.com/reviews/lorde-melodrama — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadriensaori (talk • contribs) 13:01, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That source doesn't say "alt-pop" or "alternative pop". I wanted to know thoughts on the Idolator source/how to interpret it, I have mixed feelings. --Aleccat 13:03, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 June 2017

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Lorde's album started in April of 2016, she wrote sober as one of the first songs, along with melodrama (sober II). 2A02:2F0A:401F:FFFF:0:0:BC1A:8257 (talk) 16:48, 24 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 00:39, 25 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Concept album

Resolved

@Ss112: How do we approach the contradiction currently in the article stating that Melodrama is a loose concept album, then including that Lorde said it is not a concept album, but a loose narrative? Should we include it in the "Concept album" category? Furthermore, should we include that crtiics opined that it is a concept album? --Aleccat 17:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aleccat: I think we can point out the contradiction on the article itself, sure. We can say something along the lines of "Lorde did not intend Melodrama to be a concept album, instead stating that it has a loose narrative. However, certain critics felt that it had an overall concept", then cite those who did. Ss 112 17:09, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: Completed. While we are on the subject, how would we include in recording that it was initially about aliens, according to The Indpendent source I added? --Aleccat 17:57, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hm... maybe just note in a sentence that she had made a statement that it was going to be conceptual/about something different than it ended up being. Ss 112 18:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Removed text

I've removed the following text from the "Grammy awards" section because the text is off-topic for the article, which is about Melodrama, not Lorde's protest or politics of the music industry. It is well-written and I'd encourage editors to move it to Lorde, 60th Annual Grammy Awards or another suitable article. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 03:04, 28 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many sources noted that Lorde's Grammy loss, along with a string of losses from other women, including Kesha, Lady Gaga and SZA,^[2]^[3] sparked a gender equality debate in a year where movements such as Time's Up and Me Too along with stories from victims of sexual assault, were brought into view in the media.^[4]^[5]^[6] Sonja Yelich, Lorde's mother, posted a picture of a piece written by The New York Times stating that out of the "899 people nominated in the last six Grammy Awards", only 9 percent were women.^[7]^[8] Lorde published a newspaper advert on The New Zealand Herald a day after the ceremony thanking readers for "believing in female musicians".^[9]
Grammy president Neil Portnow and executive producer Kenneth Ehrlich were asked about the ceremony's underrepresentation of women, and in particular the absence of Lorde from performing on stage. At a press briefing backstage at Madison Square Garden, Portnow stated, "It's hard to have a balanced year and have everyone perform." He later followed his statement by saying, "We can't have every nominee perform." Elrich added, "These shows are always a matter of choices. She had a great album, but there's no way we can deal with everybody. Maybe people get left out who shouldn't, but we do the best we can to make sure it's a fair and balanced show."^[10]^[11] His response was met with criticism from Pink, Charli XCX, Sheryl Crow and Katy Perry.^[12] Portrow followed up his statement after backlash from the public, stating that his choice of words were taken out of context and expressed regret over not being as "articulate" as he should have been.^[13]^[14]

References

^ Billboard http://www.billboard.com/artist/1553855/Lorde/chart?f=794. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

^ Shapiro, Rebecca (28 January 2018). "Angry Grammys Viewers Have No Patience For Lorde Performance Snub". The Huffington Post. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ Kaplan, Ilana (29 January 2018). "Kesha, Lorde and SZA were among the women let down at this year's Grammy Awards". The Independent. Archived from the original on 18 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

^ McCarthy, Tyler (28 January 2018). "Grammys 2018 take on Trump, DACA and gender equality as Bruno Mars takes home Album of the Year". Fox News. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ L. Smith, Troy (28 January 2018). "Grammys 2018: Lorde controversy sparks gender equality debate". Cleveland.com. Archived from the original on 29 January 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

^ Loughrey, Clarisse (29 January 2018). "Grammys 2018: Only one woman won a main award despite #metoo, the championing of gender pay equality". The Independent. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ Cite error: The named reference VarietyReport was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

^ Sisario, Ben; Coscarelli, Joe (25 January 2018). "Will the Grammys Have a #MeToo Moment?". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ Livsey, Anna (30 January 2018). "Lorde takes out newspaper advert in wake of Grammys snub to women". The Guardian. Archived from the original on 10 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

^ Kennedy, Gerrick (28 January 2018). "Grammy president and producer talk Lorde controversy: 'We can't have every nominee perform'". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 6 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

^ Brandle, Lars (29 January 2018). "Grammys Organizers Address Underrepresentation of Women, Lorde's Live Snub". Billboard. Archived from the original on 29 January 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

^ Maslow, Nick (30 January 2018). "Katy Perry, Charli XCX slam Grammys president for saying women need to 'step up'". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ Coscarelli, Joe (30 January 2018). "Grammys President Faces Backlash After Saying Women Need to 'Step Up'". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

^ Manno, Lizzie (30 January 2018). "Grammys President Responds to Backlash After Saying Women Need to "Step Up"". Paste. Archived from the original on 17 March 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Concept album

According to this source in the article, although Lorde denied the album being a "concept album", it stated that she did recognise the loose storyline that connected all songs together. I think this should be interpolated as "although that the record was a concept album was denied by Lorde, she did realise that the album had a loose storyline" or something similar. She did not completely reject the idea after all. — HĐ (talk) 03:49, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@HĐ: I think this part sums up your points well, "...Though it has been denied by Lorde, music critics have described Melodrama as a loose concept album. Lorde has stated that Melodrama has only a loose narrative..." It mentions that Lorde herself denies the concept album claim then clarifies her stance while also noting how critics view her album. De88 (talk) 07:23, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move. (non-admin closure) — YoungForever^(talk) 21:01, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Melodrama (Lorde album) → Melodrama (album) – As of now, there are 3 other albums with the same name: Melodrama (The Crash album), Melodrama (Joel Kroeker album) and Melodrama (Vibe Tribe album). The latter is a redirect to the group's article. None of those records made appearances on any domestic or international charts. The Lorde album is the most notable record with this title name, as it has significant commercial (#1 in 4 major music markets) and critical recognition (multiple appearances on major music publications' end of year and decade lists). De88 (talk) 20:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@De88: Better discuss first. Also, are any of the albums named here, anything like a melodrama? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Anthony Appleyard: As far as I know, the Lorde album does in fact take inspiration from the definition of a melodrama but its narrative is devoted to another topic (heartbreak and solitude). The others, however, I do not know. De88 (talk) 22:12, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: Incomplete disambiguation is generally a bad idea; it does not really help readers if a disambiguation term is needed anyway. I'm only aware of two such WP:PDAB cases for albums, and they are for really extremely well known albums: Thriller (album) and My Generation (album). WP:ALBUMDAB does not recommend such usage. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:22, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BarrelProof: A similar move happened with Future Nostalgia. One other album exists with that name from 2015 (Future Nostalgia (The Sheepdogs album). I have seen several albums have successful request moves in the past. This is not limited to "extremely well known albums". The Lorde album has more notability than other albums of the same name. De88 (talk) 06:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is an important difference for Future Nostalgia. The title of that article does not include "(album)", like what is suggested here, so that is not a case of incomplete disambiguation. It is an ordinary case of a primary topic without disambiguation. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:52, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per BarrelProof. I still don't see any upside to partial disambiguation. It's still disambiguation... just more ambiguous. Obviously people feel differently, but in my view, it seems a bit self-defeating. I'll probably go to my grave regretting my failure to oppose that Thriller move. Nohomersryan (talk) 00:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently I was not paying attention either during the 6th RM discussion for that page, or maybe I was just tired. I expressed opposition to the same proposal in the 5th move discussion, but in the 6th, a non-admin closer overruled 6 objections (against ~9 supporting) to declare a consensus. —BarrelProof (talk) 02:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose intentional incomplete disambiguation is of no benefit to the project or its readers. -- Netoholic @ 07:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per BarrelProof, Nohomersryan and Netoholic. Incomplete disambiguation is definitely to be avoided. Votes at another currently active nomination (Bye Bye Birdie (film) → Bye Bye Birdie (1963 film) [analogous to Bye Bye Birdie (1995 film)] at Talk:Bye Bye Birdie (film)#Requested move 10 May 2020) appear to be overwhelmingly in favor of eliminating the WP:INCDAB. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as there are two other albums that have this title and Wikipedia articles, and while there may be an argument that this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for Melodrama (album), I think it would be best to keep the disambiguation given the existence of multiple album articles with this name. Aoba47 (talk) 02:22, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Useful sources

https://www.soundonsound.com/people/jack-antonoff

— HĐ (talk) 06:20, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Billboard http://www.billboard.com/artist/1553855/Lorde/chart?f=794. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[2] Shapiro, Rebecca (28 January 2018). "Angry Grammys Viewers Have No Patience For Lorde Performance Snub". The Huffington Post. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[3] Kaplan, Ilana (29 January 2018). "Kesha, Lorde and SZA were among the women let down at this year's Grammy Awards". The Independent. Archived from the original on 18 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[4] McCarthy, Tyler (28 January 2018). "Grammys 2018 take on Trump, DACA and gender equality as Bruno Mars takes home Album of the Year". Fox News. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[5] L. Smith, Troy (28 January 2018). "Grammys 2018: Lorde controversy sparks gender equality debate". Cleveland.com. Archived from the original on 29 January 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[6] Loughrey, Clarisse (29 January 2018). "Grammys 2018: Only one woman won a main award despite #metoo, the championing of gender pay equality". The Independent. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[VarietyReport-7] Cite error: The named reference VarietyReport was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[8] Sisario, Ben; Coscarelli, Joe (25 January 2018). "Will the Grammys Have a #MeToo Moment?". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[9] Livsey, Anna (30 January 2018). "Lorde takes out newspaper advert in wake of Grammys snub to women". The Guardian. Archived from the original on 10 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[10] Kennedy, Gerrick (28 January 2018). "Grammy president and producer talk Lorde controversy: 'We can't have every nominee perform'". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on 6 February 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[11] Brandle, Lars (29 January 2018). "Grammys Organizers Address Underrepresentation of Women, Lorde's Live Snub". Billboard. Archived from the original on 29 January 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[12] Maslow, Nick (30 January 2018). "Katy Perry, Charli XCX slam Grammys president for saying women need to 'step up'". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[13] Coscarelli, Joe (30 January 2018). "Grammys President Faces Backlash After Saying Women Need to 'Step Up'". The New York Times. Retrieved 10 February 2018.

[14] Manno, Lizzie (30 January 2018). "Grammys President Responds to Backlash After Saying Women Need to "Step Up"". Paste. Archived from the original on 17 March 2018. Retrieved 10 February 2018. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]

[11]

[12]

[13]

[14]