Talk:Mark Robinson (American politician)

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A fact from Mark Robinson (American politician) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 November 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that when he is sworn in next year, Mark Robinson will become the first Black lieutenant governor of North Carolina?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mark Robinson (American politician).

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On 2 November 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Mark Robinson. The result of the discussion was not moved.

The use of "alleged" when describing the Nude Africa comments

This article currently uses the words "alleged" and "allegedly" when describing the things said by Robinson on the Nude Africa forum. I personally don't think this is necessary or appropriate, as the CNN source doesn't use this language and there is ample evidence that he did say them. He did deny that he made the posts, but Wikipedia:Mandy Rice-Davies applies. This essay states Most importantly, if the allegation is widely supported by reliable sources but the denial exists only in X's own words, then the denial is not compelling or significant per Hitchens' razor. As such I am going to remove the use of "alleged" in this context. Di (they-them) (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Di (they-them) I agree with your assessment. The comments were proved to be connected to him in a variety of ways including his full name, photo, username, and email—as pointed out by the CNN report—so I'd say WP:MRDA applies. Of course he denies it.

— Tha†emoover†here (talk) 09:46, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nazi figurines

Has there been any discussion about adding the Meidas Touch report of Robinson buying Nazi SS soldier figurines and Nazi tank miniatures and posing them for photographs? If not, I'm proposing the discussion take place here to determine if it's relevant to the article.

— Tha†emoover†here (talk) 09:16, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was hesitant to add this a while back because I couldn't find reliable sources covering it, but these seem to be good. I'll add it. Di (they-them) (talk) 12:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Di (they-them) Meidas Touch is a progressive political action committee, turned "media" organization. I would argue based off it's origins that it is in no way a reliable source, especially with regard to its reporting of a conservative candidate. If this is the standard of Wikipedia, then it is a very low standard. 104.35.207.163 (talk) 19:38, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm inclined to agree. MTS does not strike me as a reliable source. We would need independent confirmation from an RS. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:08, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm inclined to agree as well. We need a reliable source, and Meidas Touch doesn't seem to fit the bill. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 21:36, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the mention from the article pending better sourcing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:37, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should Robinson's sexual comments and interests be mentioned in the lead?

This is not about WP:CENSOR, but whether Robinson self-identifying as a "perv" or enjoying transgender pornography merits being in the lead. I believe Robinson's comments on Adolf Hitler, Nazism, and slavery are far more controversial and serious than ones on sexuality and pornography. Also I find it rather incongruous to include transgender pornography in the same sentence as Hitler, Mein Kampf, Nazism, and slavery. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:49, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do we routinely mention a subject's sexual proclivities in the lead of their articles when such information is available and properly sourced? If yes, then it should stay. If not, then it should go. That said, I strongly believe that there has been sufficient coverage to justify its discussion in the body of the article. But we need to be consistent in the way we present controversial claims in BLPs. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:51, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was taking a look at some other BLPs, and there have been many politicians who've been embroiled in scandals but their lead isn't overloaded with as many labels as possible. Bill Clinton handles this fairly well, as does Matt Gaetz (even though he's still under investigation, and has not been indicted or convicted of any crimes).

I dropped the WP:OVERCITE prose in the lead and left it summarizing the body per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, notice it doesn't say LEADCOPIESBODY. Kcmastrpc (talk) 00:30, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ehhh. I'd say the removal of his exact comments on the forum is fair enough - his political career is not overly connected to whether or not he's a "perv" or what genres of pornography he dabbles in. But I don't agree with the scaling down of his past comments to just "many controversial statements" - particularly given how much coverage his candidacy has received in relation to them, it feels only fair that we actually mention what these comments are - e.g. conspiracy theories, homophobia, Holocaust denial. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 10:18, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which statements should we attribute? Why are the antisemitic comments and/or homophobic comments more due than racist or sexist comments? When I look at an article like Kanye West the tail of the lead seems DUE, because he has made a lot of controversial statements in the past several years, but there was an inflection point at which he suffered material consequences from it. If Robinson loses the race and reliable sources attribute it to this scandal I'm still unsure whether or not we should cover every ridiculous thing this guy espoused which cost him the election. Something like, "During the 2024 election, CNN exposed Robinson having made several extreme and offensive comments on an Internet forum over a decade ago, and as a result most of his staff resigned (and his run for Governor resulted in a landslide victory for his Democrat opponent). Italics is obviously WP:CRYSTALBALL. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:38, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I mostly agree, but "extreme" is ambiguous. Robinson's opponent Josh Stein is Jewish, and Robinson's controversies have strong parallels to Doug Mastriano's in Pennsylvania two years ago. Reuters found photos of Mastriano wearing a Confederate uniform. Mastriano's lead mentions his controversies in detail--i.e. election denial, January 6th, Christian nationalism, QAnon, etc.

Side-note: Almost all major forecasters have the race as "Likely Democrat" (Robinsons' opponent is a strong favorite but not guaranteed to win). JohnAdams1800 (talk) 00:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 1 Nov 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) Di (they-them) (talk) 20:40, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Robinson (American politician) → Mark Robinson

WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: He is the most notable Mark Robinson (similar to Mike Johnson). However, there should still be a disambiguation page for people with the same name, like with Johnson.

AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 01:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed: Considering all the others, my impression is that any current popularity of this article is just WP:RECENTISM, and the nominator hasn't made any attempt to show otherwise. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This Mark Robinson has the longest article of any Mark Robinson on Wikipedia and if you search his name on the web (like on Google), the American politician comes up immediately (in the US). AwesomeAndEpicGamer (talk) 02:30, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This Mark Robinson has only been an active politician at a sub-national level for less than 4 years and given the scandals, might very well be done after this cycle. The DAB page lists multiple other Mark Robinsons with longer careers in both politics and other fields, so while the pageviews might be in favour of this subject (the nominator has not presented pageview evidence yet), the long-term significance criterion is likely not satisfied. The comparison to Mike Johnson can also be distinguished on the basis that Johnson is the head of a branch of government at the national level and has been an active politician for a decade. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 02:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose good faith proposal mostly per above. Subject is a relative newcomer to subnational politics who has garnered an unusual amount of attention due to various controversies in his personal life and campaign for Governor of NC. At the risk of crystalballing, it seems more likely than not that his campaign will be unsuccessful. The election is now three days off. If he were to win, I might be inclined to reconsider. But otherwise I suspect that what prominence in public life he may currently have, will quickly fade. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:07, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Heavy interest in the final days of a highly controversial political campaign is not evidence of a long term trend. If he loses, the online interest will rapidly fade. Cullen328 (talk) 19:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Ad Orientem. Maybe if he becomes governor we can reconsider, but not now. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 19:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now - I agree that he's currently the most famous Mark Robinson, but he's only been in politics since 2020, and I really, really doubt that he'll have a political career in the future. If he somehow manages to win this election and doesn't disappear from politics, that might change things, so let's wait at the very least. Di (they-them) (talk) 03:23, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I agree that the American politician Mark Robinson is the best-known person with this name, but this appears to violate WP:RECENTISM if he were to lose, and he is a subnational politician. Kevin McCarthy and Mike Johnson are/were Speaker of the House.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:15, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update as expected, Robinson lost. While he is still notable due to being Lieutenant Governor of North Carolina, he will soon be out of office. His article doesn't merit the title. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 13:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As per everyone else's opinions (and my own as well), I'd oppose this as well. There's a bunch of other people also named Mark Robinson, and considering that the race is almost over, once Stein wins (not trying to get political here), the scandals surrounding Robinson should eventually become yesterday's news and people will forget all about them. I'd also be inclined to support if he were to become governor (which there's pretty much no way he will), but again, considering that everything is nearly done at this point, it would be best to just leave the page as is. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 15:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Rachel Hunt (Elect) as Successor Ohiowikiassistant (talk) 22:10, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]