Talk:Malamatiyya

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Sources

Other online sources:
Malamiyyah Psycho-Spiritual Therapy
Hakîm Tirmidhî and the Malâmatî Movement in Early Sufism

Re: POV tag

The main predicate of the article's opening sentence, "The Malāmatiyya ... represent the highest category of occulted or hidden Sufi Saint", is a point of view, and—although this point of view certainly deserves mention in the article—equally as certainly it should not be the article's opening statement.

There are other such statements scattered throughout the article; i.e. "by one of the better known but not necessarily 'highest ranking' of Sufi Masters, Ibn al-'Arabi"; "Therein lies the mystery of Divine Jealousy and Reproach, helping to keep the majestic substance of the Malamati soul hidden from jealous eyes of fallen and decadent men"; etc. In addition to the serious cleanup and reorganization that the article requires, such statements as these should be presented in their proper context as being certain points of view, and preferably cited with reference to reputable sources. —Saposcat 05:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sapsocat - the expressions "such statements are certain points of view" and "reputable sources" are themselves somewhat unclear and misleading given that the subject matter in this case is the "malamati". However, this article has undergone changes and relatively reputable sources have been cited.

—"[R]elatively reputable sources" have, in fact, not been cited to support the changes made. —Saposcat (talk) 13:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apocryphal

I am concerned that some of the sources used for this article focus only on the most outlandish examples of the practices of the Malamatiyya, thus presenting these practices as the norm - re: urinating in front of groups of people. I am not saying the sources are unreliable, but as frequently happens with academic studies of Sufism, only the most fantastic, almost unbelievable manifestations are expounded upon and the reader may be under the impression that such behaviors were the norm. I will try to find more sources, keeping an eye out for mention of day-to-day acts of worship instead of what appears to be almost fairy tales. MezzoMezzo (talk) 08:20, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First mention

"The Malāmatiyya were first written about by Abu ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Sulamī (d. 1021) in the 11th century AD (4th–5th century AH)."

Is that so? Hujwiri devotes a chapter of Kashf alMahjoob to them. He was active about the same time.1Z (talk) 00:24, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]