Talk:Listed buildings in Birmingham

Untitled

This should be a catgeory (or series of categories, one for each grade) not an article, surely? Andy Mabbett 14:12, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There certainly could be categories, but I think the list is needed as well because there are buildings on it which may never get their own article. -- Kjlewis 16:11, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

103 Edmund Street

There seems to be a contradiction in the use of 103 Edmund Street. The Land Registry shows a common ownership of this address with 17 & 19 Newhall Street. The Victorian Society in Birmingham lists 103-107 Edmund Street as being the Former Ear, Nose and Throat Hospital, Edmund Street , Grade II, J A Cossins, 1891 [1]. This could do with checking. Admitedly the Land Registry only shows land usage and not the buildings upon the land. Oosoom 15:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

After I noticed your edit earlier this week I walked past the building to try and check the street address (it's near my place of work). There isn't a number on the Edmund St entrance, nor are the next few buildings along numbered. By the time there are obvious numbers on the buildings, they are in the high 120s or low 130s (can't quite recall which). When I get the chance I will walk past again and see if I can match the building to the description on the Victorian Society website.

According to the City Council's schedule of listed buildings [2] 105-107 Edmund St is the former ENT hospital and is a Grade II listed building and is cross referenced to 70-78 Barwick Street. IIRC the building on this corner would be Queen Anne style. The misallocation may be mine, but I believe the City Council Schedule has been tweaked since I took the info off there, so it may have been misdescribed on the earlier schedule. As 103 is clearly not the former hospital, I will remove this description and the architect and year, pending clarification, but I am fairly sure you're correct that 103 Edmund St is the other entrance to 17-19 Newhall St. If so, then there's no logic is listing both addresses, so when I've double-checked I'll remove 103 Edmund Street from the list as the article (nice work, btw) is listed as 17-19 Newhall St. Valiantis 13:58, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually I just removed 103 Edmund Street completely. I'm certain you're correct. Valiantis 14:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks for your reply. My Land Registry plan (with house numbers) shows 105-107 Edmund St as being the same building as goes around the corner for the whole of one leg of Barwick St (ie 70-78). That would be the paler building with the two gable ends showing to the left on my picture [Image:Bell_Edison_Telephone_Building.jpg][[Image:Bell_Edison_Telephone_Building.jpg] (it's twice as deep into Barwick St as its frontage on Edmund St). I do wish all buildings had to have a visible number! It is still a grade II building though.

PS.thanks for adding the missing star to the grading of Highbury Hall. Oosoom 14:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I have just discovered the English Heritage Images of England web site of all (eventually) listed buildings with photos, architects, and description [3]. I had to register (free) to get the search by address facility. Marvellous. It says: "EDMUND STREET 1. 5104 (south-east side) City Centre B3 Nos 105 and 107 (The Birmingham and Midland Ear, Nose and Throat Hospital) SP 0687 SE 29/25 16.9.81 GV II 2. Includes Nos 70 to 78 (even) Barwick Street. 1890-1, by Jethro A Cossins and Peacock. Brick and terracotta; tile roof. Not in a local style. Three storeys plus basement and attic; 3 bays, the outer 2 brought forward slightly on volutes at first floor level and crowned by Dutch gables, the centre one with a shallow canted bay window rising through first and second floors beneath a segment-headed arch. Below this, the door; above, a 3-light pedimented dormer window in the roof. On the left-hand return (where the entrance to Nos 70 to 78 Barwick Street is), an arched doorway with a chimney stack soaring through the Dutch gable in a Norman Shaw way." Oosoom 15:15, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I have now discovered the template {{IoEentry|217435|Images of England - photograph and details from listed building text}} which I should have used rather than paste the text above. Oosoom 13:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Council House, Council House Extension, Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery

Regarding the three entries in this list only two (Council House, Council House Extension) are buildings. They are both II* listed. The Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery is an institution which occupies part of both of these, but is not a building in its own right (and is therefore not listed). The Council House was built for the corporation, then extended less than a decade later (also by Y Thomason) within the block to incorporate a small art gallery and gas department (now the Water Hall, not today's Gas Hall), and then extended again during WW.I across the 'bridge' where offices, more Art Gallery and Museum, and the current Gas Hall are.
Excellent list - keep it up! Oosoom 13:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

You're quite correct in this. As I recall I made a conscious decision to list the original building (1874-79) as the Council House and the 1880s extension simply as the Museum as the extension was built (primarily) to house the Museum and I wanted to have some links back to existing articles. On reflection I accept the logic of your point and am amending the list. Valiantis 14:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. I got quite confused at first when researching this as it took some time to realise there were two possible Gas Halls. Once you know that the Gas Dept used the Water Hall you can see that the first extension is part of the original building. Oosoom 15:51, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it. The ground floor under the Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery was used as offices for what I presume would be a company with a title along the lines of "Birmingham Gas & Coke Company" all the directors being Birmingham City Councillors (I have not looked into this, so its just a hypothosis on my part). What is now called "The Waterhall" was, as I understand it, entirely office space for the Gas company with cast iron columns supporting the upper floors. What is now "The Gas Hall" was the payment office for the company and in some way emulates the banking halls along Colmore Row, Temple Row West and Bennetts Hill. Am I right in any of these statements and assumptions? DonBarton 09:03, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure of the exact legal nature of the gas companies. As I understand it, the Council bought-up the gas and water concerns with the benefits of (a) a better service for the ratepayers, and (b) as a revenue source. Eventually the offsite gas offices were brought into the Council House by it being extended (by Y Thomason) less than a decade after construction of the original Council House. The profits from the gas enterprise paying for the extension as the Arts budget was limited by law even though it was an art gallery that the town really wanted. This extension comprises the BMAG main entrance, staircase, clock tower, a bit of office space under the clock tower, round room, Waterhall (original Gas Department, legal status unknown), and the Industrial Gallery (original Art Gallery) and Edwardian Tea Room above it. This all looks like one building today.

The bridge, and the larger building the other side of Edmund Street, date from around WW-I. Its upper floors are the current (paintings) art gallery (same floor as bridge) and the museum (top floor, currently being redeveloped in part). The ground floor consists of various council Education Department offices, and the Gas Hall exhibition space (previously the Gas Dept which had moved out of the old building to make room for the Water Dept (hence Waterhall)). Oosoom 09:38, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Icknield Street School & 303 Icknield Street (Headmaster's house)

I have merged these two onto one line as they seem to me to be contextually linked.They are both II*. My apologies if you were wanting the table to have one line per listing. If so I will try to separate them again. I have started an article on the school. Oosoom 07:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

No that seems logical. I've already included a couple of other separately listed structures on the same site as a single line (e.g Aston Hall plus lodge & stables) where the grade is identical. Valiantis 12:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Sources

• 98 Edmund Street - Victorian Architecture in Britain - Blue Guide, Julian Orbach, 1987, ISBN 0-393-30070-6, p428 Oosoom 22:23, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

New Street Signal Box

This was granted Grade II listed status last year [4] and is located on Navigation Street, city centre. I dont know the architect as I have searched the net quite a lot and no names have been given but it was built in 1964[5]. - Erebus555 12:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

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