Talk:List of concert halls

Proposed protocol for this "List of Concert Halls"

Since this is a list of HALLS rather than PACs or performance spaces, etc, I have revised much of this article based on the following criteria:

1. Name of Hall: Where the hall has an obvious name (named after a person, etc.), that name should be used, even if it is part of a larger PAC. e.g. Alice Tully Hall is part of Lincoln Center

Where the name of the hall is not English (e.g. Musikverein, it should appear in the original language with a translation if appropriate. e.g. Musikhuset Aarhus (Aarhus Concert Hall)

2. When to include PAC's name: As in the example above, BOTH the hall name and the PAC's name appear with separate Wiki links e.g. Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center

3. Name of Performing Arts Center where hall has a generic name (e.g. "Concert Hall"): In this case, where it is the PAC rather than the hall which is known, it should appear with the name of the PAC first followed by the generic name. e.g. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts Concert Hall

I trust that everyone is in agreement with this as a means of presenting the infomration in a more logical way - given the title of the article. Vivaverdi 18:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Column Reorder

Now that we have broken out the centers and halls (which I think has worked out quite well - I'm sure that soon we'll have a PAC article listing all of the halls for each PAC), I have been confronted with the issue of ordering. I think that the halls are best known by the Center most of the time, so I was going to change the column order and place the Center first, ordering the list alphabetically by the Center, and then have the Hall as the second column. Many times the Hall name may just be "Concert Hall" anyway. Any objections or thoughts before I go ahead and make this change? Bhludzin 18:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem with this approach is how someone will search for a concert hall. The Louise Davies Hall in San Francisco is part of the larger PAC with a different name. I've gone through and changed the name where appropriate to the correct PAC, rather than duplicate the Hall name and PAC in side-by-side columns. e.g. Royal Albert Hall is not part of a PAC, so it does not need anything in the PAC column.

If we reverse this, there will be an empty spaces. AS noted somewhere (below?), a separate List of PACs might be a better approach.

Vivaverdi 18:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that I don't think that the hall name is what most people know. Who knows that the name of the symphony hall at the Kimmel Center is Verizon Hall? I think that most of the time, people know the Center or building before they know the Hall name. I think the Davies Hall is an exception - when I lived in San Francisco for 6 years, the whole building was always called the Davies Hall, and it was later that they named everything the San Francisco War Memorial and Performing Arts Center. I propose that everything is ordered like it is in all of the other lists (e.g. List of symphony orchestras, List of rapid transit systems), geographically first. But then I feel that the columns should be the Center and then the Hall. Bhludzin 19:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree on the idea of making this list conform to the examples of other lists. Right now, I'm trying to get as much accuracy as possible with the entries we have; then they can be re-ordered.

Agree with you on Davies Hall in SF: that name should appear first, but it is part of the SFWMPAC and is administered by them, a bit like Lincoln Center - a separate building among many other specialized ones rather than all auditoria under one roof.

Re: example like Kimmel. For all entries, we could do what I'd proposed up top a long time ago: i.e. when there is a generic "Concert Hall", put the name of the Center first, then "Concert Hall" as in Kennedy Center etc...

So "Verizon Hall" would appear as: "Kimmel Center, Verizon Hall". How would that look to everyone? "Lincoln Center, Alice Tully Hall"??

Vivaverdi 13:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I like that so much better. (Sorry I took a while to respond - I burned out on this list for a while after so many edits...) I think that left-to-right the columns should be: country (when the region permits all to be in one list), state or province (when it is applicable, like the U.S.), then city, then PAC, then Hall/Building/Room. I think that it should be ordered that way as well - when I look at the list, I drill down geographically - you always know what country/city/state the hall is in, but you might not know the name. I think this way the list would be much more approachable. How do you feel about doing it like that?

Bhludzin 23:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Just getting to look at this again. Thanks for your comments. I don't have a problem with that approach, although my only reservation would be that the HALL needs to be somehow prominent, so maybe that could be achieved by having a shaded background to the Hall column even if it is a few cols. over from the left.

Now that we are ordered by country it looks a lot better than it did, so, for the US entries, ordering by city, then state (together as we have it now? not 2 cols I think) seems to be the proposal and that's fine by me.

Let's play with it and see how it looks. Vivaverdi 23:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. As a matter of simplicity, I think that we can remove the duplication as in the Hong Kong section. No need to repeat Hong Kong in the city column. It's already be done with Japan and others.... Vivaverdi 23:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I did it (and it was a LOT of work). I reorganized all of the tables - I think that everything is much more readable and accessible now. It will now be easier to expand the list as well, because we can see the geographic areas where we have holes in the list, and can do searches for "concert hall" with particular countries or cities. The boldest move that I made was to change the "PAC" and "Concert Hall" columns to "Venue" and "Room" respectively. They are the only terms that fit the data. Many of the entries that were in the PAC column are not PACs, but are just the concert hall building itself, or are civic centers, universities, etc. So I thought that "Venue" fit better than PAC. And then within the venue there is a specific room - the use of the term "Concert Hall" for the Room column heading was very confusing since many of the venues have the words "Concert Hall" in the name of the venue (which was in the other column). Bhludzin 04:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Excellent. I think this looks fine this way. Well done.... Vivaverdi 18:32, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Update on protocol

Suggestion: since this is a list where halls or PACs appear right after the location, I felt that, if one is listed as part of a university campus, the name of the university should appear AFTER the name of the hall or PAC (unless its offical name ins the "U of A Perf Arts Center").

I've made some changes to reflect this, and found that further discreet wiki links emerge e.g.: Arizona State University and Gammage Auditorium

Protocol revisions proposals- 25 November 2007

It would seem to me to make more sense having the name of the larger body appear first, then the smaller entities within it.

That seems to the way most of this is article is laid out anyway.

Therefore, it would be:

• State
• City
• Name of complex (whether PAC or University or "host" body)
• Name of "Room" within that body; if no host body, then just name of room and next col empty
• Size
• etc —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viva-Verdi (talk • contribs) 20:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Significantly Expanding This List

I currently don't have the time, but if anyone is interested, someone could significantly expand this list in a short period of time by going through the List of symphony orchestras article and finding the symphony halls through there to be added to this list. That article and the List of symphony orchestras in the United States article are both much more thorough than this list. This article should be brought up to a comparable level with those articles. Bhludzin 16:25, 13 May 2006

Not sure how to post my comment, but noticed that Mexico is not included in the list of concert halls, and considering it probably has more halls and orchestras than any other country in Latin America (posted as South America here), it should be included in North America. In a list of symphony orchestras, I've just included several important Mexican orchestras that were omitted. Olaf Carrera, 5 May 2007

Indenting your comment with : (so that yours indents 1 space and mine now indents 2 spaces) will make it a bit more obvious, but thanks for it. Maybe you could compile a list for Mexico and add the halls? Or, if you have a problem with the format for adding them, pls let me know and I can help. Also pls sign your name with the 4 tildes, so it will appear like mine does Viva-Verdi 16:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Extra info in footnotes

Thanks for the comment and for fixing that.

I hadn't yet figured out how to do it, and just ploughed ahead with updating as many of the entries as possible where I could find information.

When completed, that is certainly a priority, as is re-ordering, etc. Sometimes the name of the concert hall turns out to be totally dofferent from the one actually on the list......

Vivaverdi 13:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Concert halls

In what sense is the Sala Mare ("large hall") of the National Theatre Bucharest a "concert hall"? It's a normal (well, actually, a rather nice) theatre hall. As far as I know, it has rarely if ever been used for musical performance. The "George Enescu" Symphony Orchestra plays at the Atheneum (mentioned). Bucharest also has a Sala Radio (not mentioned, no article) which is occasionally used for concerts, especially chamber music; the Sala Palatului (not mentioned) is used for many things, including concerts (not usually classical concerts, but it's a big venue for popular music with specifically Romanian character); the Sala Polivalente (not mentioned, no article) is used similarly to the Sala Palatului, but the concerts there lean more toward rock, etc. All of these have, I would think, a better claim on being called concert halls than any hall of the National Theatre. - Jmabel | Talk 06:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't know anything about any of the halls in Romania. If you feel that it needs to be removed, please do so and replace as appropriate. If you can write an article (even a stub), that would be useful. Vivaverdi 13:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Adding concert halls

The concert hall of the Philharmonic Society of Bilbao (Spain) should be added . It was built in 1904. You can find more information about it in it´s website (www.filarmonica.org). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.146.33.86 (talk) 12:20, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

New York City: Weill Recital Hall and Zankel Hall, both part of Carnegie Hall, should be added to the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.116.95 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

London: I intended to add Cadogan Hall in Chelsea but found the list format too much to deal with. Athænara ✉ 04:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I added it. It wasn't so bad after all—just a little trepidation before a learning experience. –Æ. 05:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

What about the Queen Elizabeth Hall or the Purcell Room in London, or the Miller Theater in NYC (at Columbia University, I think)? I will try to mess things up by adding them but it would be much better for someone who knows how to deal with the table formatting to do so! --Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 19:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Leicester: De Montfort Hall. Rodparkes 08:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Brighton: Brighton Dome. This one will give the guidelines a real workout. Brighton is now the City of Brighton and Hove. "Brighton Dome" is actually the name of a complex including two halls besides the main Concert Hall, to which "The Dome" always referred when I lived there. Monomoit (talk) 01:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Wiesbaden: is in Germany - table to be corrected (have trouble doing this myself...)User:rt60 11:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Add the Estates Hall in Prague Edgar Durbin (talk) 21:06, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

External links?

I don't think external links are appropriate or necessary within these tables (where would one stop?), so unless anyone objects I will remove them all.--Shantavira 14:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I AGREE. Yes, if every one had it's own.... Take 'em out. Viva-Verdi 06:04, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Russia?

I see nothing about Russia in this article..

-Guy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.190.149.168 (talk) 03:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

The Chamber

The link to the article about "The Chamber" talks about a book.

Also it appears that some of the links are to external sites and this is not indicated in the usual way. Zygnoda 07:28, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Poland

Where is Poland???? 83.9.64.194 (talk) 17:10, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Missing London & UK Concert Halls

Classical Music Venues London (Time Out) - http://www.timeout.com/london/classical/

ABO British Orchestras - http://www.abo.org.uk/Members-Directory/Full-Members/

The Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London is currently constructing a a 625-seat concert hall, 225-seat training theatre, a studio theatre, and space for teaching, office and support services. [[1]][[2]] [[3]][[4]]. The new Milton Court Heron skyscraper will house the new facilities, which are part of a wider plan to work with the Barbican Centre and London Symphony Orchestra to create a shared Barbican Campus[[5]]. Also nearby is the LSO's new Jerwood concert hall at St Luke's. [[6]]

Other missing UK Concert Halls include:

Belfast Waterfront Hall, Belfast, Northern Ireland (Home to the Ulster Orchestra) [[7]] [[8]]

Haden Freeman Concert Hall & Bruntwood Theatre (The Royal Northern College of Music) [[9]]

Chetham's Music School Concert Hall - Manchester [10]

Henry Wood Hall Southwark London [[11]]

Dora Stoutzker Hall (The Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama) [[12]] [13]

Academy Concert Hall (Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama) [[14]]

Menuhin Hall, The Yehudi Menuhin School (Surrey, England) [[15]]

Constance Pilkington Hall (Purcell Music School - Hertfordshire) [[16]]

Wells Cathedral School [[17]] [[18]]

The Venue (Leeds College of Music) [[19]]

Whiteley Hall & the Baronial Hall (Chetham's School of Music - Manchester) [[20]]

Irwin Mitchell Oval Hall (Sheffield City Hall) [[21]] [[22]]

Colston Hall Bristol & St George's Bristol [[23]] [[24]]

Southampton Guildhall (Home to the City of Southampton Orchestra) [[25]] [[26]]

West Road Concert Hall (University of Cambridge) [[27]]

Cosmo Rodewald Concert Hall (University of Manchester) [[28]]

Clothworker's Centenary Concert Hall and Great Hall (University of Leeds) [[29]]

Victoria Rooms (University of Bristol) [[30]]

Turner Sims Concert Hall (University of Southampton) [[31]]

Great Hall Complex (Lancaster University) [[32]]

Civic Hall Stratford Upon Avon (Home to the Orchestra of the Swan) [[33]] [[34]]

Hull City Hall (Home to Hull Philharmonic Orchestra) [[35]] [[36]]

Sir Jack Lyons Concert Hall (University of York) [[37]]

Butterworth Hall (University of Warwick Arts Centre) [[38]]

Reid Concert Hall & St Cecilia’s Hall (University of Edinburgh) [[39]]

University Concert Hall (University of Glasgow) [[40]]

Glasgow City Hall [[41]] [[42]]

Younger Hall (University of St Andrews) [[43]]

Firth Hall (University of Sheffield) [[44]]

Newcastle City Hall & King's Hall (University of Newcastle Upon Tyne) [[45]] [[46]]

Diamond Concert Hall, The Assembly Hall & Octagon Recital Room (University of Ulster, Northern Ireland) [[47]]

Sir William Whitla Hall & Elmwood Hall (Queens University Belfast, Northern Ireland) [[48]]

Fraser Noble Hall (University of Leicester) [[49]] [[50]]

Djanogly Recital Hall, Lakeside Arts Centre, University of Nottingham [[51]] [[52]]

Great Hall (Imperial College London) [[53]]

Great Hall (University of Reading) [[54]]

University Concert Hall (Cardiff University) [[55]]

Great Hall (University of Exeter) [[56]]

Pritchard Jones Hall & Powis Hall, University of Bangor, Wales [[57]]

The Tippett Centre (Bath Spa University) [[58]]

Victoria Concert Hall (Stoke on Trent) [[59]]

St Andrew's Hall Norwich (Home of Norwich Philharmonic Orchestra) [[60]]

The Music Hall (Aberdeen, Scotland) [[61]]

Caird Hall (Dundee, Scotland) [[62]]

Snape Maltings Concert Hall, Suffolk [[63]] (Home to the Aldeburgh Festival) [[64]] [[65]])

The Corn Exchange (Bedford) [[66]] [[67]]

The Corn Exchange (Cambridge) [[68]]

The Corn Exchange (Kings Lynn - Norfolk) [[69]] [[70]]

The Lowry Centre (Salford, Lancashire) [[71]] [[72]]

The Great Hall, Aberystwyth Arts Centre, Wales (Home of Aberystwyth MusicFest) [[73]] [[74]] [[75]]

Fairfield Halls (Croydon) [[76]]

Royal & Derngate (Northampton) [[77]] [[78]]

Milton Keynes Theatre & MK Stables (Home to Milton Keynes City Orchestra) [[79]] [[80]] [[81]]

The Barber Institute (Edgbaston) [[82]]

Elgar School of Music, Huntingdon Hall (Worcester),[[83]] [[84]]

The Courtyard (Hereford)[[85]] [[86]]

Adrian Boult Hall (Home of Birmingham Conservatoire) [[87]]

Blackpool Winter Gardens (Empress Orchestra) [[88]]

Cheltenham Town Hall [[89]] [[90]] [[91]]

St Georges Hall Liverpool [[92]]

The Lighthouse Poole Arts Centre (Home to Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra) [[93]] [[94]]

The Anvil Arts Centre Basingstoke [[95]] [[96]]

Dome Concert Hall, Brighton (Home to Brighton Philharmonic Orchestra) [[97]] [[98]]

Jacqueline du Pré Music Building (St Hilda's College, Oxford) [[99]]

There are other concert halls not listed above, with most major UK towns, cities and universities having their own dedicated orchestras and concert venues, with many dating back to the Victorian era and the big Civic Guildhalls, Great Halls, City Halls and University Halls. Over the years these halls have been supplemented by a new generation of Arts Venues, and today there are an ambudance of concert halls of orchestral standard throughout the UK today.

http://www.julianlloydwebber.com/news.asp

Quite a few of the many British amateur or community orchestras are listed here - [[100]]

Best of the UK Classical Summer Festivals - http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/festivals/article3721119.ece

The Proms Website - http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2008/

The wiki list of concert halls seems to be far from a comprehensive list, and some of these and other venues should be given due consideration with a view to being added to the article.

..(See Also Discussion Regarding Wiki List of opera houses (RE: UK))—Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.89.7 (talk) 20:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Kings Place - London

Kings Place (near Kings Cross) is London's New Arts and Concert Centre joining other such famous London Venues such as Cadogan Hall, Wigmore Hall, the Barbican Centre, the Royal Festival Hall (Southbank Centre), Royal Opera House, the Coliseum, the Royal Albert Hall, Duke's Hall (Royal Academy of Music), St Johns Smith Square, Central Hall Westminster etc etc.

First impressions are of a sleekly elegant glass office building. The beautifully detailed shallow curves of the triple glass wall on the street reflect the clouds.

The concert hall -- the first newly built venue in London since the Barbican opened in 1982 -- has acoustics by Arup Associates. It is a superb and elegant space, more beautiful than many of London's music venues.

Seating 420 people, its design reflects a period of international research by the designers who were influenced by the quality of small halls recently built in Tokyo.

Computer models of other venues such as the Wigmore Hall in London and the Musikverein in Vienna provided comparisons. The oak veneers all come from one 500-year-old German oak tree which has provided the hall with an immediate timelessness.

A rehearsal/ conference space (220 seats) will be used for performances ranging from Beethoven to Norwegian jazz and African music.

On the open-plan ground floor, the view through the building leads to Battlebridge Basin where there are waterside bars.

The Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment and the London Sinfonietta will be based at Kings Place with room for rehearsal space, offices and educational programs. [[101]][[102]][[103]] [[104]]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.205.89.7 (talk) 20:09, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Phillippines

Can someone with knowledge of how this template is constructed fix this section? I would do it myself but I can't figure it out. Thanks Markhh (talk) 16:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Done! Clicklander (talk) 07:09, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Splitting Europe into countries

The Europe table has become so large that I, at least, find it very hard to track down the formatting errors. I recommend splitting the current table into separate tables by country, even though some of those would have only one row. Any thoughts? Epanalepsis (talk) 19:56, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

AS one who edits this a fair bit, I know what you mean. Sometimes it's a pain to edit (and there's a problem with Turkey right now). Asia is pretty bad too, to say nothing of the US....

So what about countries/states A to C; D to F or G, etc. as an initial break down? But, given the work, maybe it be easier to do it by country right from the start. I'm not opposed to it at all...Viva-Verdi (talk) 20:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

THANKS for your response, Viva-Verdi.

I've started working on it in my user pages, going country by country. This will make the article Contents list longer, but make the tables easier to access. We can see what it looks like before making it live. Epanalepsis (talk) 20:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Finland and France (what I came here to find) couched under the Estonia–Georgia headline befuddles me. I do a lot of editing, but frankly this table is too large, too important, and too intimidating for me to comfortably tackle. Most definitely, a country by country re-organization would be best. John Sinclair (talk) 22:19, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Janet & Ray Scherr Forum Theatre

I fixed the table layout after someone added the Thousand Oaks, California entries, but I'm not at all sure that this one belongs here. I'll have a look around, but if anyone knows more about these space, maybe you could clarify?? Machina.sapiens (talk) 08:46, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Tonhalle Zürich

The list has this important hall, but only as a redirect to the orchestra. Tonhalle gets you to Town Hall which is nonsense. Help? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Removing Streinway Haus entries

I've looked at the websites for the various Steinway Hauses, and it's fairly clear that the only one that contains anything that could be called a Concert Hall is the original one in NY, so i'm going to remove the others. Just noting that here in case anyone questions the removal. Machina.sapiens (talk) 12:23, 9 September 2011 (UTC).

Taiwan, under the category of China

I don't want to raise a political issue. Most list in Wikipedia, Taiwan (whether is it a state or not, not my point) stands as an independent category. Since I contributed most of the Taiwanese concert hall information, I believe it was still an independent directory under the category of Asia when I added them. Did Wiki's policy changed? Or is there someone want to play tricks on this issue? I don't care, as I said, the political issues. But theses changes are strange, as well as the change of categories on the page of List of symphony orchestras. Percus (talk) 05:56, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I've moved the China and Taiwan sections back into a more consistent structure. Without wanting to trigger an edit war or get involved in political disputation, as you say, it seems more sensible to treat Taiwan as a separate region in this kind of List, from a practical point of view at least. Machina.sapiens (talk) 10:39, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Removing inline images

I notice that the entry for Norway now sports a photo in a new "Images" column. This addition strikes me as unnecessary and, in most cases, redundant because so many halls have individual entries. I propose to remove both the particular image and its column. Any objections? Epanalepsis (talk) 17:24, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

NO OBJECTIONS:It looks as though only China has more-or-less complete inclusion of images and, with this one for Norway popping up in the middle of a long list of other countries without any, I agree that this one can be removed. If they all had images, it would be huge amount of work - and anyway, the images are so small as to be almost worthless. If there is an existing article, it will invariably have a photo as part of it. Viva-Verdi (talk) 20:18, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

NO OBJECTIONS : Images belong in the main articles, not in lists Machina.sapiens (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Radio City Music Hall

Is Radio City Music Hall intentionally left off the list? Is it considered more of a theatrical venue? Powers ^T 15:27, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Portugal Comment

Missing several large halls and some of the ones included are not really notable. Tuvalkin (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Propose to split the article

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to split

---

"Concert hall" is a basic article that an encyclopedia should have, and there are 18 different language version of it, including simple English. Thus, I propose to split the first paragraph to "Concert halls" and expend it to a full article.-AINH (talk) 11:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that there's no more than a stub's worth of content on the topic. You could start by expanding the content in the lead of this article. Or move this back to its original title, concert hall. – wbm1058 (talk) 21:10, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

• I'm a year late on this, but support per AINH's nom. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 17:46, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
• I also support such an initiative. An article covering the history of the concert hall, acoustics, etiquette (see WP:NOTMANUAL, though), etc. would definitely belong on Wikipedia. Note that, per WP:BOLD, anyone should feel free to create such an entry, though I'm not 100% sure about the guidelines for changing the content of redirect pages. Toccata quarta (talk) 07:01, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
• I definitely support the creation of such an article. JackFromReedsburg (talk) 20:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Daask (talk) 16:17, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Small drama theatre hall

Small thetre halls less and short drama performance 69.94.90.175 (talk) 11:18, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes 69.94.90.175 (talk) 11:18, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

yes 69.94.90.175 (talk) 11:19, 5 August 2024 (UTC)