Talk:List of city squares by size

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of city squares by size article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Urban studies and planning Mid‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Urban studies and planning, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Urban studies and planning on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Urban studies and planningWikipedia:WikiProject Urban studies and planningTemplate:WikiProject Urban studies and planningUrban studies and planning articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Kharkiv

It took a while but the controversy has finally started. Rather than have an edit war, let's discuss things first. The reference I added to Freedom Square, Kharkiv does not even agree with itself, so I'm not sure it can even be considered a valid reference. The width of the main part of 96m seems correct, but then 11,600 m^2 would imply the length of 120m, which is clearly an under-estimate. My feeling is that 11,600 is not an accurate number and we should disregard it. --Romanski 15:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actual size of square is 110,000 m^2 beacuse there are rectangle area and big round area. The round area isn't calculated usually but it should be calculated also. I edited the article. 20:47, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

See the discussion at Talk:Freedom Square, Kharkiv for a bit of history on this problem. At the time the conclusion was that

The full size of the "square" (the square + the circle), 11.6 ha, is mentioned in the article
For comparison with other squares, the size of the main rectangular area is used. In this case, 302m * 96m = 28,992 m^2

Also, as Romanski pointed out, the 11,600 m^2 put in by user 75.177.213.227 is incorrect (even the rectangular part is much bigger). I think the problem is that the 75.177.213.227 thought that 1 ha = 1,000 m^2 when it is really 10,000 m^2. So 11.6 ha = 116,000 m^2 (pretty close to the 110,000 m^2 that is currently shown).

However I would rather stick to the size of the "main rectangular area", which is unambiguous and can easily be checked using Google maps. What do others think ? Nberger 21:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, actually it was me who thought 1 ha is 1,000 m^2 :) I personally would not count the round area as part of the square - when standing on the square area the square quite clearly appears to end where the round area begins. The round area has lots of trees and I don't see how it's any different in composition from, say, Hyde Park. If Hyde Park was qualified for this list it would beat every square in the list, at over 1 million square metres. Honestly, I don't see why the round area would be considered part of the square. --Romanski 09:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hyde park it's a park, not a square :). So we shouldn't consider it, but If you want... I'm from Kharkov and I emphasize that the round area is also the area of the square. --Svd 14:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC)Svd[reply]

Actually, a person from Kharkov that I know was adamant that Shevshenko park (big wooded area to the south) should also be counted in Freedom square :)... I agree that it's debatable, but the problem is that if we don't have strict standards there is no comparison possible. For instance, someone added "Place des Quinconces" as No.2 today, supposedly 126,000 m^2 but if you look on Google maps it's mostly woods with a much smaller open space in the middle. I think that using the criterion of "main rectangular *open* area (or other simple shape) is the only way to get meaningful comparisons - otherwise supporters of one place or the other will twist the facts and make this pointless. Nberger

I'd favour noting which measures are given, and if the measures aren't detailled and referenced in the article about the square, provide the references here. -- User:Docu

Red Square/Prato della Valle

The article on Prato della Valle notes it as the 2nd largest in Europe, with 90,000 m², but the size given here for the Red Square is inferior. When trying to google for sizes, I keep getting ads for apartments .. Supposedly print sources would be preferable. -- User:Docu

BTW nl:Rode_Plein notes 100x550 for the Red Square, but doesn't give a reference either. -- User:Docu

I just came across Talk:Freedom_Square,_Kharkiv#Size which discusses the size of the Red Square. -- User:Docu

You'll also notice that Freedom Square, Kharkiv asserts that it's also the second-largest in Europe :) --Romanski 12:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

.. and even changed to "2nd" based on an early version of this list :)

I don't mind contradicting claims, if at least it's made clear who makes them or how they are made.

BTW I edited Prato della Valle to remove the claim. -- User:Docu

Temple district

As the article Temple Square (Salt Lake City, United States - 40,000 m²) isn't categorized in Category:Town squares and describes it as an "area", "plot" or "block", rather than a "town square", I removed it from the list. -- User:Docu

Bryant Park/Reservoir Square

Shall we include Bryant Park or "Reservoir Square" (New York City, United States - 39,000 m²). I'm a bit hesitant. Its article describes it as "a public park located in New York City". -- User:Docu

Macroplaza

Should the Macroplaza be second? It doesn't measure up on Google Earth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qwerty510 (talk • contribs)

Google Earth is not very exact to measure. For example, go measure the Tiananmen Sqaure and you will see that the claims it features a 880 x 500 m is totally false. AlexCovarrubias 06:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

es:Discusión:Macroplaza raises another point, it calls it "un cumulo de parques y plazas unificados". -- User:Docu

buildings on the square

Should be the area of buildings on the square included in the whole area or not? If not Main Market Square, Krakow (and probably not only it) certainly should have lower position in the list. Let`s imagine an extreme situation when a building (or buildings) takes most of the area of the square ... In my opinion those squares in witch`s pictures we can see there is an building on it, should be deleted from the list (and given area is counted by multiplying the length of sides). Sfu 00:36, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where the information is available, it's worth including how the area is measured (e.g. including or excluding roads, park like features, buildings). Please note that the introduction mentions that the numbers may not be directly comparable. -- User:Docu

Apparently the square in Samara, Russia includes a rather large building. --Romanski 16:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2.4 ha (http://old.samara.ru/paper/128/3194/48409/) 83.220.64.101 20:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How many trees before a square is a park?

Several of the squares listed could just as well be considered a park as a square. What is the defining line?

Agree. And it's not just trees, grassed areas too. I feel very uncomfortable referring to the whole areas of several of the listed places as "city squares". Anyone else want to chime in? Turkeyphan^t 21:40, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a Chicagoan, I totally disagree with the characterization of Millennium Park as a "city square." It lacks any sense of enclosure by surrounding buildings, is bounded on three sides by thoroughfares, and is more grassed than paved. If it's a city square, then so is New York's Central Park, which is considerably bigger. (I also question the inclusion of New York's Washington Square Park, though that one is slightly more defensible.) Chicago simply is not a city of squares the way, say, Philadelphia is; the only place in the city I know of which I'd unequivocally characterize as a "city square" is Giddings Plaza in the Lincoln Square neighborhood. --Geenius at Wrok (talk) 18:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would personally consider many of these squares as parks. This is a purely personal observation that many of these squares are grassed, unenclosed, recreational spaces (parks...), rather than a a square in the traditional sense; paved, surrounded by the city on all sides, places for communal gathering or commerce. I would fully support a full review of this list on the grounds of definition, let alone contested sizes. I think there may be the temptation for those of civic pride (not a bad thing) to exaggerate their own town or city's open spaces in either definition or size, and listing these parks and squares by location rather than size may reduce the impact of one-upmanship that this list seems to have bred. 78.144.168.228 (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other top squares not listed?

I've found a source which claims that there are four squares larger than the square in Samara, Russia. It only says where they are, not what they are called. It lists:

Of these we only have the Beijing square in the list currently. Some research is necessary! --Romanski 16:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Warsaw

Parade Square allegedly 700m 300m with some provisional buildings.Xx236 (talk) 10:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, could could somebody add Plac Defilad (Parade square) in Warsaw?.. It has 700x300m which makes it third largest on the list... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.241.131.42 (talk) 14:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give the source? --Roman Yankovsky (talk) 17:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Praca dos girassois, Palmas, Brazil

The square called 'Praca dos girassois' can be found in the city called Palmas. Palmas is the capital of the state Tocantins, in Brazil. You can find the square on Google Earth, by typing the square name. The size of the square is approximatedly 700m x 800m. There are government buildings on the square, and central you find the 'Palacio Araguaia'. Depending on the definition of a square, this would be the worlds largest square. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.2.93.6 (talk) 20:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What a mess

The list does include questionable archaeological artefacts along the lines of Cahokia but excludes such major European squares as the Field of Mars. --Ghirla^-трёп- 02:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

sorting by area seems to be wrong

I may be missing something, but I really think there is something messed up with the sorting. Goes like this: the page loads and everything is sorted correctly, Tienanmen Square at the top with 440,000 m², Raekoja plats at the bottom with 5,550 m². Then the poor user (that would be me) clicks this thingie http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif next to "Area". He would think that this simply reverses the order from descending to ascending. But no. It goes all bizarre. Rynek Wielki goes to the top with 10,000 m² and at the bottom we can see Plaza de Balcarce measuring 90,000 m². Like it doesn't treat surface areas as numbers but rather ordinal numerals. I have read "Help:Sorting", understood pretty much nothing. I don't have a clue if it's like this for a purpose or is it a bug of some sort. I also have no idea how to fix it, so i thought i'll just write about it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.230.202.194 (talk) 21:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I also disagree about listing by size. I think there may be the temptation for those of civic pride (not a bad thing) to exaggerate their own town or city's open spaces in either definition or size, and listing these parks and squares by location rather than size may reduce the impact of one-upmanship that this list seems to have bred. 78.144.168.228 (talk) 19:23, 21 December 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.168.228 (talk)

Merdeka Square, Jakarta, Indonesia

According to a book I have, this square is the largest in the world, covering an area of about 850000 square m (approximately 1000m x 850m). However, there are quite a lot of trees on this square as seen on Google Earth/Maps so it could be a park just as well. The local name for the square is Medan (or Lapangan) Merdeka, both meaning Freedom Plain/Field.HyperGaruda (talk) 07:22, 30 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed if the spatial configuration of the space between Jalan Medan Merdeka Barat, Utara, Timur and Selatan is considered, than it is rather a park subdivided by many streets. If only the free open space around Monas is considered, than it is much smaller. --Elekhh (talk) 05:04, 29 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kikar hamedina (the state square) , tel aviv , israel

this is a very big square in tel aviv.

there is more city's with big squares that not showing on the list like :

1 - New delhi

2 - Canberra

3 - Baghdad

4 - Damascus

5 - Amman

6 - Addis Ababa

7 - Samarkand

8 - Tashkent

9 - Ashgabat

i think there is more city's need to added to the list. פארוק (talk) 21:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

National Mall, Washington DC

I propose that the National Mall in Washington DC is actually the biggest square in the world at 309 acres (1 250 000 m2), it is just as much of a square as Merdeka Square regardless of what its name is. It seems to me there is a lot of confusion about what constitutes a square, Merdeka in Jakarta serves as a good example, whilst at its very centre could be considered a square the vastly expanded area that is included to make up the 1000000 m2 would almost certainly be called a park - it has dense trees. By my rough estimates the square proper is only 90000 m2. I think a definition needs to be reached and applied; simply because something is called 'X square' doesn't mean it is a square. --Cimex (talk) 13:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Parc de la Verriere is a park, not a square!

Does it belong on this list then? -- megA (talk) 17:24, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Parks, squares, combined parks and saquers??

This list is not coherent, there are many places that seem more parks than squares and others are not included. For example National Mall, which is 247 ha (without counting the building area), Parque 3 de febrero in Buenos Aires (wich is mostly constituted by plazas and is 276-400 depending on measurements, Central Park which is 338 ha or General San Martin Park which is roughly 400 ha. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Reinsalkas (talk • contribs) 12:07, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How rigorous and accurate are the measurements?

I am engaged in research on the sizes of city squares in a set of ancient cities. I am looking for comparative data from contemporary cities. I cannot evaluate the rigor or accuracy of the plaza measurements in this list. My general plan is to do some exploratory quantitative analyses, and if the results look promising I will probably want to re-measure all of these plazas to be consistent and rigorous. But any information about who did these measurements, or how to judge their accuracy, would be appreciated. Michael E. Smith (talk) 21:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

2 squares from Tzarskoe Selo (Pushkin), Russia

.

Sobornaya sq. (ru:Соборная_площадь_(Пушкин) ) has 3,4 ha (34.000 m²) .

ru:Софийская_площадь_(Пушкин) Sofiyskaya sq. has near 40 000 m ².

Other from there is the Privokzalnaya sq. ru:Привокзальная_площадь_(Пушкин) Russian: Привокзальная площадь which has square near 15000 m² in shape of semi-circle with main diameter near 200 m.

Golodg (talk) 17:49, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on List of city squares by size. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on List of city squares by size. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:59, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

唐山抗震纪念碑广场.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:22, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Xinghai Square at night.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:08, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Gwanghwamun square.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:06, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Mesto Zvolen.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:23, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]