Talk:List of best-selling albums/Archive 11

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Bad's sales

Inaccurate number of albums sold.

Since 2005, the quantity of Bad albums sold by Michael Jackson has been inflated by several users without any proper reference, probably in an effort to promote the artist. As we can see in the article History the figure has been constantly modified ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24]... etc, etc). If we analyze these sources (for example: [25]), it is more than evident that they were written by individuals that are not experts on the topic and probably are just music fans. Wikipedia is built with secondary sources and is our job as editors to prevent biases in the articles.

Therefore, I suggest using a more stable figure of albums sold, which are the 30-35 million copies, and that is supported by several reliable sources [in multiple languages] (english: MTV ASIA 30 million (2012), BBC News 30 million (2012), Los Angeles Times 30 million (2012)... etc. Additionally, I suggest adding a note indicating that according to ImpreMedia, the 40-45 million albums sold is an inflated figure. As we know, this is a usual practice in the music industry to promote artists (Billboard and Spin). Thanks and best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 04:15, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

• The album was re-released in 2012 and all advertisements and press releases from Sony regarding it stated copies of the album had surpassed 45 million. While I don't doubt this number is probably inflated to generate higher back catalogue sales, it hardly seems fair to include outdated "reliable" references that demote sales down to a lower end 30 million and disregard the higher estimates above 35 million (especially when 30 million is in line with sales that have remained stagnant for the past decade and do not include post-humous sales). A range of figures is surely the only method of citing Bad's sales because of such discrepancies in the numbers present. Mc8755 (talk) 18:43, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

DANGEROUS

can someone please fix Michael Jackson Dangerous sales,,,,,,,,,,,,,they say 30,32,28 million ,,,,,,,,,leave it as ONE reliable source which the article referenced on the list as 32 millino,,,,,,thank you--65.8.190.28 (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

.

Done I deleted all of Dangerous’ sales claims except for the lowest: 30 million. See here for why I chose the lowest.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• Dangerous has had sales listed at 32 million since the start of the 2000's. Citing a sole figure of 30 is far more inaccurate than the 30-35 million range. Mc8755 (talk) 18:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Do not be silly!!

I can not believe I've editors so ignorant. Thriller sold over 104 million albums around the world according to Guinness World Records, Bad sold over 45 million units according to Sony, and MJ sold over 1 billion records worldwide. If they do it well edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.54.144.38 (talk) 11:55, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely no. First: Thriller have only 42-45-50 million copies certified (Including the certifications after Jackson's death). Overall, it has sold 65 million (15 million more than the certified). And, no, according to Guinness World Records (2011) Thriller has sold 65 million copies. The 100 million figure or more is unrealistic, a marketing strategy, and Wikipedia ("Wikimagic") helped a lot in this case. Spend exactly the same case with "Bad" and overall sales of Mr. Jackson. And please, "Silly" is a bad word, you avoid this. Best Regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 22:07, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Eagles's Hotel California

To other editor, perhaps especially to Mauri, i need your opinion. What do you think about Eagles's Hotel California 32m-claim from this source (http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110929/A_ENTERTAIN/109290308) is this reliable ?

Need Advice?. thanks Politsi (talk) 07:25, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Done: I don't think that that particular article is very reliable as it claims the album sold 32 million copies " in the U.S., Canada and the United Kingdom". The album was added with that source and [examiner.com/article/rock-hall-anniversary-the-eagles-hotel-california an additional article] claiming 32 million in worldwide sales.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:33, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Dookie?

Dookie by Green Day sold over 26.000.000 copies worldwide — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.91.71.39 (talk) 16:32, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Sources?--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 04:53, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

what do you think about this source, 20m-claim (http://bothners.co.za/products/green-days-tre-cools-signature-series-zildjian-practice-pads/). thanks Politsi (talk) 05:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

The phrase "a slew of successful follow up albums developing a huge international following and selling over 20 million records worldwide" refers to the band's sales after they had their breakthrough with Dookie.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 07:31, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Who defines this article?

• "the album must have sold at least 20 million copies worldwide"

• "the highest sales figure reported for an album is added to the list"

• "All albums included on this list have their available claimed figure(s) supported by at least 20% in certified copies. The percentage amount of certified sales needed increases the newer the album is, so albums released before 1975 are only expected to have their claimed figures supported by at least 20% in certified copies. However, newer albums, such as 21 and Come Away with Me, are expected to have their claimed figures supported by at least 70% in certified copies. Certified copies are sourced from available online databases of local music industry associations"

Why?

There is no consensus for these opinions.

Why should Wikipedia conform to these artificial 'rules'? 88.104.28.176 (talk) 02:31, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

History past ,present, future

http://avaxhome.bz/music/MJacksonHIStory.html,,,,,,, I need an editors opinion if this is good enough source for Michael Jackson album,,,History,,,,thank you,,,,,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 19:03, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Of course not. It's a blog.—Kww(talk) 22:34, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

another source for History past, present, future

http://www.modernghana.com/news/224213/1/sudden-departure-of-michael-jackson.html.... what about this source for m. Jackson - History...your opinion please,,,.thanks,,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

That article is a plagiarized copy of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Jackson&oldid=293489795, from Wikipedia at the same time, so no, we can't use it as a source because we can't use ourselves as a source.—Kww(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

another article,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,History

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1997/06/19/ent_210096.shtml,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this one is a news article, does not cite Wikipedia and says Michael Jackson sold more than 20 million, can any editor give me his opinion about this one,,,,,,thank you,,,,,,,,,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:55, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's HIStory Past Present and Future

This billboard article proves that HIStory was certified twice in the USA. [26] "See this talk [27]" Even if only the USA counts certifications twice, that would still leave that album with 9.1 certified sales, not enough for the 20 million claim. --Watquaza (talk) 02:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Edited reply - just realized it's been removed already. Ray of Light is millions in sales behind HIStory and The Color of My Love (in certifications alone). Both History and TCOML should be included on this list provided reliable sources are present for both. XXL magazine denotes 4 million in re-release sales between 2001 and 2009 for HIStory (see the article where it's referenced in the album article here), combined with certified sales of other territories bring the total somewhere along the lines of:

USA - 7 million (as of 1999), EU - 6 million (dated, but all that exists for now). Other available certifications: Japan - 750K, Australia - 560K, Canada - 400K, New Zealand - 150K, Argentina - 40K, Brazil - 40K, Mexico - 30K.

• Roughly comes to 15 million

+ 4 million in re-release between 2001-2010: Approx. 250K certified in UK as of 2009 (Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/mar/16/features.musicmonthly20#article_continue) and approx 990K sold in USA as of 2009 (Source: http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/photos/stylus/97334-michaeljackson_pp_03l.jpg coupled with: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616273/michael-jackson-dominates-charts-third-week.jhtml). [Note these only include sales up to the third week following Jackson's death but are all that are available online as of now].

• Comes to approximately 19-20 million. HIStory (along with TCOML) should absolutely be included in list under the estimated sale tally of 20 million. Mc8755 (talk) 16:49, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

No, ROL is not millions behind, actually ROL have more certfied sales than HIStory. As I mention before, if you check THIS Billboard article, [28] you would realize that Michael's album was certified at that time 5 times platinum for sales of 2.5 millions. That means that in the USA at least, the album was certified TWICE. Ultimately, the album with 7 platinum certifications, suggest that it have shipped 3.5 million copies in America. While ROL is certified 4 times platinum (4 million shipped) and 7 million in Europe, hence, Ray of Light is more certified than HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I. --Watquaza (talk) 17:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but still 7 million CDs sold, just as the re-release of the first disc alone is counted towards overall album sales too. So considering that, HIStory has shipped ballpark 8 million CDs/records in the USA, 6 million in EU (as of the end of 1996) and the other territories' sales. Pink Floyd's album The Wall is considered to have around 23 million in sales in USA, when it only sold 11.5 million copies of the two disc album - because it is two disc they're counted separately towards a sole total which in this case outranks Ray of Light and TCOML. Mc8755 (talk) 17:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Pink Floyd's The Wall considered US sales in this article are the actual ones, 11.5 million, not 23 million. Correct me if I'm wrong. And even counting units once and not twice, The Wall still have enough reported sales for the 30 million claim. Unlike HIStory, which with 4 million album units (not 8 million CD's) in the USA, +6 million in Europe, +500k in Canada, +560k in Australia, +60k in Argentina, 150k in New Zeland, 50k in Brazil and 100k in México it leaves a total of 11.420.000 shipped units . --Watquaza (talk) 18:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes but what I'm trying to say is that when HIStory was re-released in 2001, the first disc was packaged and sold and counts as units towards its total sales, therefore it would mean counting these as half sales of a unit by comparison, so if these are counted (with certifiable sales of the re-release alone at over 1.5 million and estimated sales by XXL of 4 million worldwide) alongside the original album release, the US certifications would count as over 4 million double-disc sets, but two records/CDs/units together selling over 8 million copies, plus the other certificates and re-release certs aforementioned bringing the total closer to 20 million. The Wall is listed in its article firstly in the album as having shipped 23 million units, then clarified by stating that these were in double-disc sales totaling 11.5 million sets. Since albums don't equate to units, each original HIStory sale is worth two units, while each re-release sale is worth one unit. By that reckoning HIStory's sales are higher than ROL and TCOML. Mc8755 (talk) 18:25, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

In "The Wall's" article yes, but not here. Please check the "Total Certified copies" of The Wall in this article. Actual sales are listed as 11.5 million in the US not as 23 million, and it should be the same with HIStory. We're not counting each CD as a unit or a record in this page. --Watquaza (talk) 20:31, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

argentina 60,000 australia 560,000 austria 100,000 brazil 100,000 canada 500,000 denmark 250,000 europe 6,000,000 finland 61,352 france 1,000,000 germany 1,500,000 japan 400,000 mexico 100,000 netherlands 300,000 new zealand 135,000 norway 50,000poland 100,000 sweden 100,000 switzerland 150,000 uk 1,200,000 us 7,000,000 Total: 14,855,000,,,,,,,,this is from the Wikipedia page on Mj History past, present, future,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:43, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

You will need a source that is not from Wikipedia.Moxy (talk) 14:27, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

.

http://fanofmusic.free.fr/index.php?m=Charts&s=BestSellers&p=BestSellers&Act=121 .... think this is good for citing,,that History past present and future has sold 20 million albums,,,,--65.8.188.55 (talk) 17:05, 30 March 2013 (UTC) http://avaxhome.bz/music/MJacksonHIStory.html this is another source that can be used,,,,,--65.8.188.32 (talk) 23:25, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The fact that this source states 2.5 million in sales for HIStory: Past Present and Future in 1995 seems very confusing. The RIAA didn't have the rule of counting Double-CD albums twice in 1995. That rule was instituted in September 1996. HIStory: Past Present and Future album has been certified 5x Platinum in the U.S. in August 1995, which should be for a shipment of 5 million units since the rule of Counting each unit in the set towards certification is still 12 months away at that point. Even the 6x Platinum received in January 1996 is still eight months away from that amendment. I'm quite baffled by the 2.5 million when it's shipped 5 million CD cases in 1995. Now I wonder if that rule was really instituted in September 1996.--Harout72 (talk) 22:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

hi maybe this will help , I was looking at the archive 10 and found the below description which apparently solved the problem for History album ( I cut and paste it ) so that it can be useful in solving this same problem again I would have solved this but I (don't) cant edit semi protected page,,thank you,,,,,,,,,,--65.8.189.36 (talk) 11:54, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

archive section

normally don't edit this list, but I came across this reverted edit by Watquaza. HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I was released in 1995 and needs the 20 million claim to be supported by 57.5% certified sales (or 11.5 million in certified units). The album, in fact, has 12.6 million in certified units available. 7x Platinum (or 7 million units) in USA 3x Platinum (or 1.5 million units) in Germany 4x Platinum (or 1.2 million units) in the UK Diamond (or 1 million) in France 5x Platinum (or 500,000 units) in Canada 8x Platinum (or 560,000 units) in Australia 3x Platinum (or 300,000 units) in Spain 3x Platinum (or 150,000 units) in Switzerland 2x Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Austria Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Sweden Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Poland 9x Platinum (or 135,000 units) in New Zealand The total from the markets above comes down to 12.6. Actually, it's also gone 3x Platinum (300,000 units) in the Netherlands, and Gold in Mexico (100,000 units), neither one's database functions at the moment.--Harout72 (talk) 00:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

What about Pink Floyd's The Wall, Garth Brooks Double Live, The Beatles's White album, Billy Joel's Greatest Hits??? All those releases were before September 1996 and still counted twice. --Watquaza (talk) 04:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Mdann52 (talk) 12:34, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Double-CDs with a run time of 100 minutes or more

In my opinion, the practice of dividing the number of the U.S. Platinum-awards for Double-CDs by two, should be abandoned at this list. It shouldn't matter how the RIAA certifies the Double-CDs that have a run time of 100 minutes or more. When a Double-CD album gets certified 22x Platinum in U.S. (for example), then it should be listed as 22 million certified units, regardless of whether the CD-case contains more than one CD inside, and each has been counted towards certification. That's not our concern.

1) The certified sales column requires information about certified units, it doesn't ask how many CD cases have been sold, it asks how many Platinum-awards it's received and what those Platinum-awards represent in terms of units when converted. 2) When news agencies contact artists' record companies to get information about a particular album's sales, the record company might simply tell the new service that the album has been certified 22x Platinum by RIAA, for 22 million CDs. The record companies, most probably won't get into such detailed explanation, that Double-CD albums with a run time of 100 minutes or more are certified differently for such and such reasons. They always try to inflate the number of sold units, so why go through all that trouble.

Dividing Double-Cds the way it's being done here at this list, is causing unnecessary restrictions. I'm personally not practicing this system at the List of best-selling music artists.--Harout72 (talk) 05:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the above editors position, ,,,,,--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:34, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear Editor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.74.89.226 (talk) 09:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Dear Editor

On elton johns web page it says GOODBYE YELLOW BRICK ROAD HAS SOLD 31 million copies from a reliable source yet it never been on the best sellers page-why .ELTON JOHNS GREATEST HITS HAS SOLD 17M in the states ,rule of thumb means its usually sold close to that outside the states and for quite sometime wiki posted it had sold over 32million but again neither album made the best sellers list.Acase could be made for the LION KING at over 11 million in the states it would be over 20 million worldwide considering the success LK around the world121.74.89.226 (talk) 10:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Tony

Is something like this what you editors are asking for?:

Artist	Album	Released	Genre	Total certified units (from available markets)	Claimed sales
Bee Gees / Various artists	Saturday Night Fever	1977	Disco	18.1 million US: 15 million UK: 500,000 GER: 1.5 million FRA: 100,000 CAN: 1 million HKG: 15,000	40 million

Artist	Album	Released	Genre	Total certified units (from available markets)	Claimed sales
Pink Floyd	The Wall	1979	Progressive rock	29.6 million US: 23 million UK: 300,000 GER: 2 million FRA: 1 million CAN: 2 million AUS: 770,000 ITA: 100,000 ARG: 60,000 POL: 70,000 SWI: 100,000 NZ: 210,000 HKG: 15,000	30 million (60 million units?)

Artist	Album	Released	Genre	Total certified units (from available markets)	Claimed sales
Various artists	Grease	1978	Pop rock, rock and roll	11.8 million US: 8 million UK: 500,000 GER: 1.25 million FRA: 1 million CAN: 1 million SWI: 25,000 NZ: 15,000 HKG: 15,000	28 million

I believe that the problem with this approach is that it will lead everyday readers to think that 29.4 million copies of The Wall were certified when in fact only 17.9 million copies of the album have been. The same problem would repeat itself with HIStory and albums such as "The Blue Album" and "The Red Album", were last two ever to be added.

The certifications column here should not just be a listing of how many platinum awards albums have received multiplied by each country's certification threshold. No, I believe it should detail how many copies albums have sold in different as recorded and measured by each country's certification-awarding body. This latter approach is just a rephrasing of the former and identical to it in every aspect except the certification of double albums.

The approach you suggest may be preferable at the List of best-selling music artists as the point of that list is to detail how many discs/downloads/music videos (records) various artists have sold, not albums+songs or "copies of musical compostions". However, here it would just cause confusion and lead not-fully-informed readers and editors, who number in the thousands, to believe some double albums have sold much more than they really have simply because ONE country's certification body chooses to certify double albums in a particular fashion.

All in all, the reason I agreed to and continue to make a certified sales column for this list is to avoid and prevent misinformation, sales inflation and ignorant editing, which, were we to adopt the "certified units" approach in this list, would return to this list and make the addition of the certifications column near useless, not to mention counterproductive, at least for double albums.

That is all.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 19:09, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, if you want to list true sold units for albums listed here, then the term Certified units may not be the right term. Because with all honesty certified units mean certified units, whether RIAA chooses to certify each disc in a case individually, that still doesn't change the fact that there are 23 million certified units by RIAA for The Wall (for example). So the column that says Certified units would perhaps be better off if it used another term, verifiable sold units perhaps?. I believe your division system is not a bad method, but it's incorrect to divide the 23 certified units by two, when RIAA has certified 23 million units, especially when you are putting all that in the column which clearly states Certified units. By the way, I really think you're doing a great job with this list, don't let my suggestion sound like a criticism. Just think about it, that's all.--Harout72 (talk) 01:46, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the last part; I sometimes fail to see people's intentions are good.

The list currently uses the term "certified copies". I changed it to "units" for the preview I posted above as you began the discussion using the word "units".--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 04:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

ABBA - Gold - Greatest Hits

Although there's no confirmed source to state 30m sales, ABBA Gold has certified sales of 23.5m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABBA_Gold:_Greatest_Hits. See also http://abbasales.hpage.com. (Coachtripfan (talk) 19:34, 24 April 2013 (UTC))

Edit request on 1 May 2013

hello i am here to say that Madonna Ray of light album has been removed from this page. it has sold 20 million copies and therefore should be in it. the BBC and VH1! including other magazines and companies have listed its sales at 20 million. only a few have listed it as 16. on her discography its also listed as 20. i request it be added please. also i have noticed a number of people have complained about this figure and asked why the album is NOT on the page. Michaelowen252598 (talk) 21:00, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Established consensus is to report this sales figure at 16 million, per this RfC. Before this figure is changed, there will need to be consensus to change it. --ElHef (Meep?) 21:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Madonna- Ray Of Light

Hello i am here to say that Madonna Ray of light album has been removed from this page. it has sold 20 million copies and therefore should be in it. the BBC and VH1! including other magazines and companies have listed its sales at 20 million. only a few have listed it as 16. on her discography its also listed as 20. i request it be added please. also i have noticed a number of people have complained about this figure and asked why the album is NOT on the page Michaelowen252598 (talk) 21:02, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Duplicate request --ElHef (Meep?) 21:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Ray of Light SOLD 20 MILLION http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/150058.stm (BBC) and http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2012-03-30/madonna-top-controversies/ (VH1) MoreMoneyGomes (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The Bodyguard

LOOK http://www.abpd.org.br/certificados_interna.asp and http://www.abpd.org.br/niveis_de_certificacao.asp The Bodyguard was certificed by 100M — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoreMoneyGomes (talk • contribs) 23:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 May 2013

Please change directly on the [117] Listing of most commercial album because the album at this location has sold 24 million so far and not 20 as stated. This can be confirmed by the official site which has been built from Wikipedia for the discography of Britney Spears 212.205.0.10 (talk) 09:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

That source is actually incorrectly placed on the Britney Spears discography page. The source there states that "...<snip>...releases her first single, "… Baby One More Time." The song reaches Billboard's No. 1 spot and her debut album of the same name sells 25 million copies world-wide...<snip>...". It doesn't apply to the album 'Oops, I did it again'. So this request is  Not done. Seems the other article may need a new source for that 24m number. If you can find a different source for both that may help clear up the confusion and would be greatly appreciated :) ^Jguy_Talk^Done 19:57, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Ahh, I see. The source had multiple pages from the WSJ that did not load on my PC. But now we have two different reputable sources with different numbers. I'm more inclined to believe the WSJ, but...? I'll mark this as  Done then. We'll go with the WSJ source. I'll also change the WSJ source on the other article to point to the second page so it's a bit more obvious. Thanks! ^Jguy_Talk^Done 20:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

elton john

Dear Editor I write once again to ask why when on wiki pages on elton johns goodbye yellow brick road and greatest hits both with worldwide sales in excess of 31 million neither album appears on best selling albums list WHY!121.75.90.113 (talk) 09:06, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

What Happen with Nevermind and Baby One More Time?

Both of this albums previously listed in the 30m-list, but why now down to 26m? Please advice, any editor please?.. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:54, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I was simply undoing the sales inflation both albums were a victim to. See here for a list of examples of album sales inflation/increases on the list.

As I have said before, when there are multiple reliable but conflicting sales claims we should not always choose the highest (this would inflate sales and be impartial) or the most recent (sales claims are sometimes increased when a new release is promoted 1 2 3) --Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 19:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for answering my question buddy. Actually, I really like this list in the past and really care about the contain in this list. That's why, if you look at the most of the albums claim source. The source mostly new and more reliable, it's because of me.

But now, this list is so confusing and un-tidy, un-like the list of List of best-selling music artists where User:Harout72 handle that list with highy care and perfect. I help him to re-new all the source inside, make it more complete.

Mauri, i really appreciated your work in here. But to be honest and i'm sorry to say. For me, this list now look un-reliable. Politsi (talk) 01:40, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Source for MJ's 20 million sales of HIStory appear to be from Daily Telegraph (a tabloid)

For some reason, I think the 20 million number given to HIStory was something someone pulled out of their butt. I've no doubt HIStory sold a lot especially in Europe but I don't know the exact sales estimates. But I somehow doubt it sold that much or even shipped that much, since some numbers come from album shipments. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 16:38, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I always hate a claim source from The Daily Telegraph (U.K) many times i have found a stupid claim from their stupid editor.

like 220m-sales of Adele's 21 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9450131/Singer-Adele-babysits-for-a-strangers-child-at-high-street-cafe.html) to 120m-sales career of Beyonce (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9896887/Beyonce-agreed-to-sing-at-local-UK-carnival-but-only-for-50000-fee.html)

In the List of Best Selling Music Artist, i've been doing by my best to kick out all source from The Telegraph, and I will do it the same thing in this list. Politsi (talk) 01:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah. It should be taken out. It's not a verifiable source. Tabloids should be eliminated as a source. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 15:47, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's Bad

Dear Mauri, i just wanted to pointed out that not only The Telegraph (U.K) is a stupid news source, but also Forbes same stupid as well . this is the fact, please read it (http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2012/02/02/the-sgt-pepper-brand-liberated-the-beatles-does-your-brand-liberate-you/) / (has sold over 32 million copies, according to Wikipedia).

So that, i suggest to put Bad only with 30m-claim from L.A Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/18/entertainment/la-et-ms-michael-jacksons-bad-25-is-it-worth-your-money-20120918) it will be better.

what do you think? Politsi (talk) 11:04, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Sales figures

There is no way that 'Back In Black' by AC/DC sold over 20 Million copies, outside the USA. I study Singles & Albums Charts from all over the World, & the AC/DC Album simply did not do well enough, to have such sales. For example, it was No.1 for 2 Weeks in the UK, (1980), but it was only the 38th UK Best Seller of that Year, & it did not stay in the Charts for very long. Indeed, it was not No.1 in most Countries, & nor did it stay in those Charts for very long. It simply cannot have sold 20 Million+ outside the USA.

Nor can 'Greatest Hits 1971 - 1975', by The Eagles, have sold 13 Million outside the USA. It did not even reach the Top 10 in most Countries. It was a UK No.2 Album, (1976), & it was the 9th UK Best Seller of that Year, but it was not very high in most Countries Year End Best Sellers of 1976. It can't have sold more than about 2 or 3 Million outside the USA.

Also, despite claims that it sold 20 Million, there is no way that Blondie's 'Parallel Lines' sold that many around the World. The UK was one of the few Countries where it reached No.1. It reached No.6 in the USA. It was not huge in the vast bulk of Countries. Its 20 Million Sales are a big exaggeration. As to Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' having claims of 110 Million+ given for it - that claim is about 40 to 45 Million too high. The claim has been looked at over & over, & I know of no-one who can tabulate more than 70 Million Sales for it. Others say 65 Million. Sony Music just plucked 40 Million extra Sales out of thin air, and they are now quoted, by the Media, as if they are set in stone - rather than a load of made up nonsense.....86.13.2.211 (talk) 08:21, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Partly done: I agree with what you say about the sales of Back in Black. It's certifications outside the US are pretty dismal. I remember seeing somewhere that it had sold 34 million copies worldwide and I'm trying to find a reliable source to be able to lower its clearly inflated sales.

Done: I removed Parallel Lines as it never met the certification requirements to begin with. It is very hard to say how much the album sold worldwide due to its extremely low certifications. However, Blondie did go so far as to sue their label to get them to submit the album's sales levels to get the royalties and certifications the album had earned, so that does say something about the album's sales, if only in the UK.

Note: A useful list which cannot be used on Wikipedia because it is original research is Guillaume Vieira's well-researched list based on chart runs. Save for the unusually high claims for the Grease soundtrack and Bob Marley's Legend, it seems fairly complete and accurate.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 17:50, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Mauri, If you still confuse to put AC/DC's Back in Black in the list because their low certification sales worldwide. Why you not put that album with only 40 million-claim. You can use this source (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/acdc-still-shakin-all-night-long/story-e6frea6u-1111117882117) or this (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/music/music-news/acdc-shun-digital-sales-to-go-995368). I understand you still mad on me, because I mock this list but please bear in mind I still care with the contain inside. Politsi (talk) 01:59, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I changed Back in Black claimed sales to 40 million using a source from The Times and another from undercover.fm. I did not use the two sources you gave me because one mistakenly claims the album is the second-biggest selling of all time and the other is a tabloid.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 05:20, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Adele's 21 sold 27 million

Mauri, to be honest. Most of the source that you put recently in this list, is not reliable enough. I think a claim figure stated from Tabloid Newspaper is still the most reliable one but is all your decision.

By the way, what do you think about this source for Adele's 21. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dj-louie-xiv/adele-21-album_b_2911113.html) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Politsi (talk • contribs) 13:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Nirvana's Nevermind, 30 million

I just wanted to point out that the most recent news sources put sales of Nirvana's Nevermind at 30 million. Heres one example from Billboard. [29] I think the claimed sales should be adjusted accordingly.QuintusPetillius (talk) 14:21, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

BAD (Michael Jackson)Has two sales figures on the list for 30 and 35 SIMULATANEOUSLY

can someone with edit ability please change this,,,,,,--65.8.189.214 (talk) 23:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It's only showing up once now. RudolfRed (talk) 03:11, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 July 2013

For The Album Bat Out Of Hell to be changed to sold to 43 million copies and not 30 million copies JoshwaaFilms (talk) 08:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Especially given that both of the current citations do indeed support the 30 million figure. 786b6364 (talk) 11:24, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Celine Dion's two albums

Should add two albums by Celine Dion to the list. All the Way... A Decade of Song (1999) has sold 21.5 mln. copies, source: http://books.google.com.ua/books?id=wA8EAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&hl=pl&rview=1&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false and The Colour of My Love has sold 20 mln. copies, source: http://www.chartsinfrance.net/Celine-Dion/news-70887.html. Also, her Falling Into You has sold 32 mln. copies and not 30, there are a lot of sources, here's one of them: http://www.everyhit.co.uk/recordalb.html. And her Let's Talk About Love has sold 31 mln. copies and not 30 as mentioned in the list, use the previous link. Thank you. Alone Highway (talk) 09:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

sorry buddy, but your two sources for all the way and the colour of my love is un-reliable. beside their certification sales is not enough to support the 20m-claim.

and I'm the one who put Falling Into You and Lets talk about love to 30m-seller. Its because more reliable to that figure sales. Politsi (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

BSB Millennium

The album has sold 40 million worldwide, as stated in the Guinness book of records.

The 30 million it was changed to was from an unreliable source and now it has been changed to 28 million??? It's their Backstreet's Back (Backstreet Boys in the US) that sold 28-32 million. Millennium has sold 40 million. Infact, the 40 million figure was reached in between 2005 and 2007, the album may be closer to 50 million now, as it still continues to sell on iTunes.

It needs to changed back to 40 million!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.226.233.204 (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, the source you have for 28 million is from the year 2000, one year after its release and more importantly, 13 YEARS AGO!!!

Here are some reliable sources with the 40 million from years after the 28 million source: http://www.mtv.com/artists/backstreet-boys/biography/ http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/Backstreet-Boys-tickets/artist/781254 http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/whats-the-biggest-selling-album-of-all-time/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.226.233.204 (talk) 20:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Albums released in 1999 need 25.4 million (63.5%) in certifications to support a claim of 40 million. Millenium has 18.88 million in certifications spanning the world, only enough for the current claim of 28 million.

Yes, the album was a massive hit, yes Backstreet's Back/Backstreet Boys sold around 28 million (its certifications are actually higher than Millenium's), but no the album did not have significant catalog sales anywhere (given the current albums market, an album charting on iTunes is not that big of a deal, further, digital album sales are usually only a small part of total sales).

As you can see at this discussion, in the six years after its last certification in 2001, the album sold a mere 0.1 million in the United States, the world's biggest albums market and the country where 69% of the album's certified sales come from. Furthermore, from 2007 through 2013 the album only sold a mere 0.12 million copies.

It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say 95% of Millenium's sales occurred in the first 30 months of release, and the certifications from that period are only 18.88 million copies.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 04:12, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The Guinness book of records in 2008 stated 40 million. Therefore its 40 million. I don't get how you can not put this as 40 million, when there are albums above this that have their certified sales less that half the figure on here?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.226.233.204 (talk) 09:42, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

That's because those albums were released at a time when there were much fewer countries that awarded certifications in the first place.

Before 1958 no countries awarded certifications. Before 1976, only the US, UK, France, Germany, Canada, Finland and Australia awarded certifications. All you have to do is click on "show" in the Total certified copies column in the article to see how this affects individual albums.

By 1999, over 30 countries awarded certifications and the certifications Millenium received from 21 of them totals 18.5 million (using Europe+US+other we get 18.9 million)

Before the 1980's there also were very few multi-platinum certifcations, so any album that sold more than 1 million copies in the US, 0.3 million in the UK or 0.4/0.3 million in France did not get certified for any sales beyond those levels.

Furthermore, some older albums' RIAA certifications are out of date and thus can cause total sales to be grossly underestimated (see The Dark Side of the Moon and Grease, for example)

This is not the case with Millenium, which in the US has actually sold only 0.8 million copies more than what it was certified for.--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 03:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)'

It sold 40 million. I'd rather believe MTV, ABC, 4Music, Jive, BBC etc than Wikipedia anyway. The whole list is completely unreliable. And like I say Millennium at 28 million is completely wrong, it's 40 million — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.70.219.51 (talk) 11:30, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

The Dark Side of the Moon

Mauri, i hope you answer my question. why you let The Dark Side of the Moon still stand with 45m-claim?. I've been put that album with 40m-claim because that figure is more reliable. need your advice. thanks Politsi (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Why do you think it's more reliable? Billboard in 2013 and The Guardian in 2010 both claim 45 million copies.

As you can see on the album's article, The Dark Side of the Moon has sold over 20 million copies in the US, over 2.5 million in France, 2 million in Canada, over 4.1 million in the UK, 1 million in Germany and nearly 1 million in Australia. In those six countries alone, the album sold 31 million copies.

Given how strong its sales in the largest (and non-US) markets are, it is very possible that the album have sold 10-14 million copies in the rest of the world. Despite originally being released in 1973, it has been certified in countries as diverse as Poland, Italy, New Zealand, and Argentina. Of the 11 countries whose certifications for The Dark Side of the Moon can be found online, only the the US, UK, Canada, France and Germany awarded certifications during the the album's initial early/mid-70's chart run, suggesting that album has been enduringly popular not just in the US, but throught the Western world.

Lastly, there is evidence to suggest that the album sold well and continues to chart to this day (year, to be precise) in countries where there are no sales estimates or certifications avilable:

48 non-consecutive weeks in the Top 20 by October 1974 in Norway

(Gold= 40,000 in 1974, for perspective)

61 weeks charted from 2006 through June 2013 in Spain

(Platinum = 80,000 starting in 2005)

81 weeks charted in Mexico, possibly since 2007

(Platinum= 250,000 until 1999)

9 consecutive weeks in the Top 5 in 1973 and 13 weeks charted from 2003 through May 2013 in The Netherlands

(Platinum = 50,000 in 1974)

--Mαuri^’96 “everything and nothing always haunts me…” 05:46, 12 August 2013 (UTC)