Talk:List of best-selling albums/Archive 10

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Edit request on 17 November 2012

I always feel that Bob Marley & The Wailers's 1984 compilation hit, Legend: The Best of Bob Marley & The Wailers is sold more than 20m, and if we see the certification sales of that album, Legend could be sell at least 30 - 32m.

But, there is no reliable source claim that sales figure. And meanwhile, i'm asking to raise the sales figures of Legend in this list up to 25m based on the news from Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2222965/Elizabeth-Taylor-overtakes-Jacko-Elvis-lead-Forbes-list-highest-earning-DEAD-celebrities.html)

thanks

(P.S Could someone/editors in this list, answer my question regarding Iron Butterfly's claim figures source, if is NOT DONE it's fine BUT please response. thanks)

182.4.56.245 (talk) 01:42, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Is there another reference? Some editors consider the Daily Mail a tabloid, with inferior fact checking. That doesn't mean this reference is no good - but another reference, if easily available, would nullify such concerns. Begoon ^talk 02:56, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Why? but Daily Mail is a very famous news source, and as i remember we have been used the source from Daily Mail for claim figures of several albums in this list. such as Whitney, Faith, Breaksfast in America.

If we must find another source for Legend claim figures, then here the source from The New York Times (http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/movies/a-documentary-on-bob-marley-from-kevin-macdonald.html) which also claim the 25m figures of Legend.

Thanks 182.4.56.245 (talk) 04:33, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Done - As I said above - the Daily Mail ref is probably ok - but the additional one will satisfy those who find the "Mail" too tabloidy. Thanks for finding it. Begoon ^talk 04:45, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 November 2012

I already have an account in wikipedia, but still can not edit this protect article, so i'm continue to make an edit request.

Please advise, is it possible to raise Britney Spears's 2000 global hit, Oops!... I Did It Again ? because the certification of the album is too excellent, since it going Diamond (10m) in U.S only and i think the 20m figures is too low for it.

Digital Spy (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a377189/ten-things-about-britney-spears.html) claim Oops...! sold 25m.

We could use this reference, since we also use the source from Digital Spy for Ace of Base's 1993 all time-best debut Happy Nation/The Sign.

thanks

Politsi (talk) 05:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done with this edit. With regards to your other query - see WP:AUTOCONFIRMED - you can edit semi protected articles after your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits - so 4 days after you registered (17.11.12) in your case as you have already made more than 10 edits. Begoon ^talk 06:27, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 November 2012

Shania Twain's Come on Over has been placed in this list with 40m claim, and the certification sales of the album nearly reach 30m.

And incidentally i try to find the better claim figures for that album and i find the source from CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500187_162-569136.html) which claim Come on Over sold 44m.

But, unfortunately one of the editor rejected that claim and the reason is because the 40m claim is more reliable and the source from Forbes is better than CBS News.

The point is, as stated in the top of the article the highest claim figures will be added in this list. And we already have the source from CBS News, but Excuse me. CBS News is a very prestigious American News Division and the source from that is very reliable.

And i believe with 30m certification sales, is fit enough to support the 44m claim.

Why we not raised Come on Over claim figures to 44m?.

Please advise from others editor, perhaps? thanks

Politsi (talk) 11:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Vacation^nine 23:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

What does it means? just answer please, the 44m claim figures from CBS News for Shania Twain's Come on Over is reliable or not?. thank you Politsi (talk) 05:45, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. In the future, so I can easily see your response, change |answered=yes to |answered=no. In response to your question, I would recommend starting a discussion on this talkpage about the change and seeing what other users have to say. Vacation^nine 17:30, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 November 2012

Please advise, i'm not sure this is only happen in my computer or my internet connection only, there is something wrong with the claim figures for both Eminem's album. The Marshall Matters LP and The Eminem Show.

The source for both of claim is DEAD. i can not connect to the source at all.

Then, i've try to find a reliable source for those Eminem's album but seriously, i can not find it.

The only source which claim the 20m figures of Eminem is from Yahoo!Voices (http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html) for The Marshall Matters only. But, I don't think the source from Yahoo!Voices is reliable enough for this list.

SputnikMusic claim The Marshall Matters sold 19m (http://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/52846/Eminem-The-Eminem-Show/)

I suggest to remove Eminem's Album from this list, because the source is really not clear and i believe we will agree to make this list very exclusive and reliable a lot.

What do you think ? thanks.

Politsi (talk) 12:12, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Vacation^nine 17:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Need opinion from the others editor, I will erase Eminem from this list because the source of the claim figures from his albums are DEAD. if any object with that, please advise. thanks Politsi (talk) 12:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

ROY/HIStory

Why is it that Ray of Light has been removed but HIStory has been re-added? There were many, and I emphasize that word, sources that supported a 20 million claim for Ray of Light that were quickly shut down but one source provided for HIStory and somehow it's back on the list? Another case of the Jackson bias that I have seen so much of here (72.203.147.78 (talk) 17:41, 21 November 2012 (UTC))

AC/DC Genre Is Not "Heavy Metal"

AC/DC is a Hard Rock band. They are in no means a Metal band. This is a fairy simple thing to know if you listen to this kind of music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itaihay (talk • contribs) 20:56, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Genesis Invisible touch

If I am corrent Genesis "Invisible Touch" has sold 24 million copies, so I believe it should be on this list. I am not aware of the ceritified sales.

Is anybody able to check and if it is correct change this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timvdkam (talk • contribs) 22:13, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be help and better if you find the reliable source from a Newspaper or Music Industry. Politsi (talk) 10:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

The Joshua Tree

U2's The Joshua Tree is claim 25m in this list by The Times. but unfortunately, that link has been DEAD already.

I've found the source from Tampa Bay Times which is claim that album sold 28m (http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/80s/content/new-u2-album-expected-early-2011)

I will raise the claim figures of the album to 28m. if any others editor feel that it is not appropriate due with Low sales certification or un-reliable source. Please inform, i will bring back that album to the previous claim. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:15, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, when i check again. the source is UN-RELIABLE. I'm cancel that. thanks Politsi (talk) 08:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 29 November 2012

the source for Soundtrack albums in this list from The Hindustan Times, has been DEAD. we should change with a better reliable sources. thanks 39.209.137.75 (talk) 12:17, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. - Could you please be more specific about which link you mean, and provide the updated reliable source, so that an editor can update it for you. Begoon ^talk 13:00, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Done - see below

Thanks for your response begoon, i've already done that yesterday. The source of claim figures from Titanic Soundtrack, Grease, and Purple has been change with the newer and more reliable. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok - thanks - then I guess this takes care of the request? I'll mark it done, to avoid confusion. Begoon ^talk 01:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

List Criteria

In the top of the article, it is said In this list the highest sales figure reported for an album is added to the list. Meaning that the highest claim figures of those albums reported will be include in this list, as long as meet the requirement percentage of certification.

For those reason, i've try to make the claim figures of those albums in this list, is the highest and the best.

and (sorry to say) I'm successful to put the BEST claim figures in this list for Back in Black, The Bodyguard, ...Baby One More Time, Metallica, Nevermind, Supernatural, Come Away with Me, Legend: The Best of Bob Marley & The Wailers, True Blue, Whitney, and CrazySexyCool.

That's why i' still confuse and can not accept why Madonna's 1998-Hit Ray of Light has been removed from the list because ONE source (The Guardian) reported that album sold under 20m copies (16m).

It is very controversial about the claim figures of Ray of Light. There is a hot war between the editor who insist the album sold 16m with the others who still stand with the 20m claim.

As i REMEMBER, one editor in this list (Mauri'96) explained that with 12.25m in certification, Ray of Light is allow to get the 20m claim figures. And that album was place in this list before, but now has been removed.

The Guardian is the ONLY reliable source who's said the 16m claim of Ray of Light, compare with BBC, VH1, Irish Independent, Vogue, and The Nation which STAND with 20m figure for Ray of Light.

I'm asking to bring back that album into this list with the source from The National (http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/music/30-years-in-the-spotlight-madonnas-highs-and-lows) because the source is very reliable, many editors inside the news are from The Wall Street Journal and The Telegraph.

and for your reference, several albums in this also have their lowest claim figures such as :

Oasis's (What's the Story) Morning Glory? (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2066114/Google-Street-View-captures-locations-iconic-rock-album-photos.html) 14m

Tina Turner's Private Dancer (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-rolling-stone-interview-tina-turner-19861023) 10m

Mariah Carey's Music Box (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1777172.stm) 20m

thanks.

Politsi (talk) 06:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

This is really more of a discussion/query than an edit request - so I've given it a section title, and hopefully some of the regular editors of this page can help you with those queries. Thanks. Begoon ^talk 06:33, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

This will not be changed. As you can plainly see, consensus was reached that 16 million would be reported.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 07:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I've restored Ray of Light to this list, because the consensus (per Nathain said) doesn't really conclude that we should "delete" Ray of Light's 20m claim all over Wikipedia. Only 3 users (out of 7) picked the 16 million figure, not even a half of voters. If you want to remove the album, then we should revise the criteria of this list. Please note: I have no objection at all to remove the album, but please be consistent with the criteria. Make a consensus, and then we will remove ALL albums which do not meet the revised criteria. Bluesatellite (talk) 08:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

This is not how it's going to work. First of all, there are four votes to 16 and all the rest to neutral. No one thinks 20 million is appropriate. As we have reached this consensus, this will take effect here as well. If you have objections with other albums sales, and have found lower sales and want to discuss them, then by all means (or if you want to establish a discussion about requirements here). But as of now, re-adding would be wrong.--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 22:27, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

For you, Nathan. Let's talk about the other thing, perhaps this will be open your eyes. I understand how you feel as Mariah Carey's No. 1 Fans, you wanted Carey is better than any others female artists, including Madonna which is in fact better than Carey in many aspects.

I know, it feels so hurt for you when Madonna rules and lead this list with four albums, more than any others female artist (more than Carey, Dion, or even Houston).

Let's accept the fact Nathan, i'm telling this to you not because i'm Madonna fans but I hope we could be consistent with the rules in this list. and TREAT all artist in the list with respect and fair manner.

Madonna is better than Carey in worldwide sales records, influence, famous and even in Billboard Chart, where Carey always proud with her 18 No. 1 hits, but I'm sorry to say in the All Time List Billboard History, Madonna is the No. 1 female act, even better than Elvis Presley.

So please, i'm asking to all editor in this list. Please, Bring back Ray of Light to the list if that album is really deserve to gain a place in here.

thanks Politsi (talk) 05:39, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Following the consensus at Talk:Ray of Light, it is clear that the contradictory 20 million figure is not to be used anywhere on Wikipedia regarding the album's sales. If that is a problem for editors of this article, I recommend dialing down the requirements such that fictional or inflated numbers are not used. Binksternet (talk) 14:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Why can't we state the album sales in between 16-20 million like Thriller? Would that be wrong? 20 million might be a little inflated but a lot of reliable sources agree that that's the amount too. --Watquaza (talk) 00:28, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you, the reason why i'm so anger because this list is too PRAISE michael jackson, yep only him the only artist with claim figures really best. 39.209.169.244 (talk) 11:05, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Sales of Michael Jackson are inflated. Unfortunately, Wikipedia has a lot to do with it. Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 16:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Those Chart Buster from Hindustan Times

I'm apologize for deleting the source from Hindustan Times for Soundtrack albums in this list, because that source seem's not reliable again, since some albums in that statement of the article is not relevant again (such as Whitney Houston's The Bodyguard claims, is up already from 42m to 45m).

I've been giving a best source for each soundtrack such as Dirty Dancing (Los Angeles Times), Titanic (HitFix), Grease (MSN), and Purple Rain (The Guardian). thanks Politsi (talk) 09:20, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Millennium

It has 3 diamonds, which means at least 30 million, no?--Krystaleen 03:08, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm exactly doesnt know what happen today, but this list still look absolutely perfect until i leave it. But now, i've seen that some editor has been change my edit regarding of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours which is reported has sold 42m, according to this reliable source (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/showbiz-and-lifestyle/music-in-wales/2012/02/07/rumours-of-fleetwood-mac-keep-the-legendary-rock-group-s-legacy-burning-bright-91466-30278172/).

and Backstreet Boys, Millennium is bump out from 30m list, with a source from UN-KNOWN (perhaps from timbuktu). I will see in the next two hours, i will repair some damage in this list. thanks Politsi (talk) 05:21, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I changed both the Rumours and Millennium sales. Rumours I changed because it is evident that its sales have been inflated for the past 8 years. (See here)

As for Millennium, it only has 17.7 million in certifications (one must remember it only received a 2× Platinum certification for sales in most of Europe) which is actually less than the 19.4 million Backstreet's Back / Backstreet Boys has.

Albums from 1999 need to have their claims supported by 63.5% in certifications, which is 19.05 million in certifications for claims of 30 million. The 17.7 million Millennium does have can support a claim of up to 27.89 million copies. I listed it with 28 million copies.

As a side note, the only country where Diamond awards mean 10 million in sales/shipments is the United States. (See this list for more info) Millennium only received two Diamond awards. One was awarded in the US for 10 million sales, and the other was awarded in Canada, for shipments of 1 million.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 14:01, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

well I don't have a source at hand but this is the very first time I've ever heard Millennium being lower than 30 million. All the reliable sites usually put it either 30 or 40 million. I don't know, band members always said that they got 3 diamonds for Millennium when asked. That 17.7 million is from which countries?--Krystaleen 16:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The 17.7 million includes certifications from the US, the UK, Germany, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Mexico, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, Argentina, South Korea, Poland, Switzerland, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Finland, New Zealand and Colombia.

If we wanted to be more inclusive about sales, we could count actual US sales of 13.776 million (see here) and the European 2× Platinum certification I mentioned. That gives us a total of ~15.8 million copies sold in a good 70% of the world market for albums. (see the data I used to calculate that here)--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 16:52, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's nice to see your name in here again. i thought, you've already leave this list for focusing of your study. It feel's hurt, knowing that source from Western Mail (Wales) for 42m claim figures of Rumours is can not use in this list. But it's okay for me.

I just wondering, because me and begoon, has been agreed that Britney Spears's Oops!...I Did It Again sold 25m, according to the source from Digital Spy (http://m.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/news/a377189/ten-things-about-britney-spears.html)

But now, it has been change back again to 20m, is it one of your edit?. and why? let me know buddy. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Marshall Matters LP & The Eminem Show

TMM have 17 million certified copies, and the claim sales are of 20 million? It should have at least 24 million claimed sales. Also, what happened to The Eminem Show? It also have 16 million certified copies, so it should be on the 20 million too. --Watquaza (talk) 06:46, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Listen buddy, if you have to be one of registered editor in this, YOU WOULD NOT ASK that question but just do with action. two eminem's album (The Marshall Matters LP & The Eminem Show) have a good enough certification but both WITHOUT a reliable source for claim figures (such a newspaper or VH1/MTV/Billboard/RS).

so i decided to erase The Eminem Show because the source of the claim figures is UN-KNOWN/DEAD Link, even the source of the marshall matters LP is actually not good enough (Yahoo! Voices) but i think, that source still welcome in this list.

Do not ask!, Why, Where, Who. but please gave the reliable source for the claim figures. thank Politsi (talk) 08:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Wooow, relax dude. It was just a simple question, no need to get all defensive for my doubt. I'm sure there must be more sources with that claim outthere. --Watquaza (talk) 05:33, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Metallica Black

Listen, source of claim figure of 30m-seller Metallica from Sky news is seriously not properly, beside as i remember in the article it was stated NEARLY and not just simply sold.

this source is quite good enough for Metallica Black album claim figures. from San Fransisco Chronicle.

http://www.sfgate.com/music/article/Kirk-Hammett-Some-kind-of-monster-fan-3850850.php

thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Politsi (talk • contribs)

DONE - I'm already done that, by myself!. thanks for your attention Politsi (talk) 20:07, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Top 10 Audited

1. Thriller - Michael jackson 42.1m

2. Their Greatest Hits - Eagles 31.9m

3. Come On Over - Shania Twain 29.8m

4. Led Zeppelin IV - Led Zeppelin 28.9m

5. The BodyGuard - Soundtrack 26.6m

6. Rumours - Fleetwood Mac 26.5m

7 Back in Black - AC/DC 25.3m

8. Dark Side of the Moon 25.3m

9. Jagged Little Pill - Alannis Morissette 24.8m

10. Gold- Greatest Hits - ABBA 23.3m (24.4m with OCC figures)

(Coachtripfan (talk) 09:56, 15 December 2012 (UTC))

I just wondering how you will collect the data and information to make the list based only from certification sales?, perhaps you are ABBA fans. and really wanted their album placed on the 30m list-above?. Their certification album sales is good enough for 30m-claim, try to find a reliable for that claim figures buddy Politsi (talk) 20:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

For ABBA's audited sales, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABBA_Gold:_Greatest_Hits#Certifications Certifications are 23.3m (24.4m if you use OCC figures instead of BPI)

Ok, Buddy (Coachtripfan (talk) 12:46, 16 December 2012 (UTC))

Ignore Claimed Sales

Can you dispense with Claimed Sales. They are just quotes from record companies, fans or media. For the most part no basis to them. Concentrate only on Certified Sales (and possibly OCC, or Soundscan sales) (Coachtripfan (talk) 13:24, 14 December 2012 (UTC))

That would solve a lot of problems! Binksternet (talk) 13:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

And Unless you don't have nothing to do except reading and writing for this list. Don't you have any better idea buddy? your suggestion is weird!. Politsi (talk) 19:59, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

"Claimed Sales" are not audited sales. I'm simply saying ignore them - and have "official" sales be they from certifications or the likes of Soundscan, or the OCC. Nothing weird in that, buddy!

(Coachtripfan (talk) 10:07, 16 December 2012 (UTC))

My Better Idea is to have all official sales - certifications or from chart compilers such as SS or OCC. As for 'inconsistency' - well, there is inconsistency already in using certifications as they started earlier in some countries than others. Better to have the most up-to-date official sales from SoundScan or the OCC rather than certifications which may be out-of-date.

"Claimed" sales are just that - claims. No proof. no evidence. No independent auditing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coachtripfan (talk • contribs) 11:31, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Look at two examples ABBA Gold has Audited Sales of 24m (Certifications of 23m). Bat Out Of Hell only has certfications of 20m yet has claims of 43m. The source is just an accusation not evidence. Where are thease extra 23m sales meant to come from??? http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/rocker-meat-loaf-endorses-romney/story-e6freuz9-1226504072278 (Coachtripfan (talk) 11:51, 17 December 2012 (UTC)) (Coachtripfan (talk) 11:49, 17 December 2012 (UTC))

Again, all the reference of the claim figures in this list is come from a very famous and reliable news source, if it not satisfy enough for you, then make your own list method. how's that buddy? Politsi (talk) 05:48, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

ABBA GOLD 23m certifications...

ABBA Gold - 23.3m certifications, 24.4m official sales (if we use the OCC's 5m rather than BPI's 3.9m)

ABBA's certifications transaltes into: Below is a list of sales figures - based on their official certification. NB certification levels are based on year of release level not what gold/platinum levels may be now. The UK figure is for official sales.

Country Sales (Certifications)

Argentina 200,000 Px3/G

Australia 770,000 Px11 (1999) 

Austria 90,000 Px3 (1994)

Belgium 600,000 Px6

 Brazil 100,000 G (1994)

Canada 1,000,000 D (2000)

Chile 60,000 Px3 

Denmark 300,000 Px6

France 1,000,000 D (1996)

Finland 120,000 Px4

Germany 2,500,000 Px5/Gx10 (2009)

 Hong Kong 120,000 Px6

Hungary 30,000

Iceland 10,000 P

India 20,000 P

Ireland 90,000 Px6

Italy 100,000 G 

Israel 40,000 P

Japan 750,000 Px3 (2009)

Korea 100,000

Malaysia 100,000 Px4 

Mexico 250,000 P(2008)

Netherlands 300,000 Px3 

New Zealand 240,000 Px16 (2008)

Norway 200,000 Px4 

Poland 20,000 G

Portugal 40,000 P

Russia 25,000 G 

Singapore 165,000 Px11

South Africa 50,000 P

Spain 500,000 Px5 (2000)

Sweden 500,000 Px5 (1999)

Switzerland 500,000 Px10 (2008)

Taiwan 350,000 Px7 

Thailand 20,000 G

United Kingdom 3,900,000 (2005, BPI) 5,000,000 (OCC,2012)

United States 6,000,000 Px6 (2002)

Venezuela 5,000

Total 24,425,000 (Coachtripfan (talk) 10:01, 15 December 2012 (UTC))

UK Sales : http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/abba-join-the-beatles-and-queen-in-5-million-sellers-club-1400/ (Coachtripfan (talk) 13:47, 14 December 2012 (UTC))

(Coachtripfan (talk) 13:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC))

(Coachtripfan (talk) 12:52, 16 December 2012 (UTC))

Sorry, for disturbing your bubble buddy. But please look at this source from The Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2494306/Abbas-Greatest-Hits-back-at-UK-No-1-slot.html) that news even claim ABBA's Gold only sold 26m.

And actually the 28m claim figures source from The Indian Express (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/special-edition-of-abba-gold--greatest-hits/722586) is find and attached by me.

It seems nearly impossible to find the reliable source of 30m figures for ABBA's Gold. Politsi (talk) 05:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Infact Buddy, I would much prefer audited sales - certifications or official sales such as SoundScan. I have asked for reliable sales only and not just claims. These 'claims' for the most part are 'hearsay' and not 'evidence'. I can't understand why you and Wikipedia want 'claims' but ignore audited and official sales from SS or OCC, buddy. (Coachtripfan (talk) 11:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC))

The trouble with 'claims' are that they may be out of date eg those ABBA Gold claims are all several years old or in most cases claims are exaggerations. Stick to audited sales. The Daily Telegraph article claiming 26m sales is from 2008. the Indian Express article saying 28m is from 2010. it is now the end of 2012!

Other albums though have reported claims that aren't backed up by any evidence at all eg Bat out of Hell on 43m. It seems if you lie about/exaggerate claims you will be rewarded by Wikipedia which believes anything reported in the media! (Coachtripfan (talk) 11:56, 17 December 2012 (UTC))

Buddy, this list has been made for some reason and the indicator of this list is RELIABLE, not the truth. and what we need to do is find where the reliable source came out and could be use as the reference of the list.

The Media such as The Times, Telegraph, or any Newspaper could be use as the reliable source and that's the reason why the certification sales requirement has been made to verify that the album claim figures is not SO inflated.

if we only stick out and stuck by the RIAA, SoundScan, or any official certification only. is also NOT reliable, personnally i put my faith and respect to the editor of the newspaper. they work all day to collect the information for us.

i suggest, make your own list to satisfy yourself rather than insist to change the method of this list buddy. Politsi (talk) 05:08, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Claim figures source of several albums

To make this list more prestigious and reliable. I’ve decided to erase the additional claim figures sources for several albums and concentrate with the most reliable ONE.

So the source several albums like this :

has been erase due with low legacy and out of dated.

including the source from Daily Mail for Oasis and Supertramp. thanks Politsi (talk) 01:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Impartiality

I think many albums should not figure, or simply should be change the sales. The biggest example (of this last thing) is: "Thriller"

It's most reasonable to estimate that the album has moved 50 to 65 million copies (110 million copies?, It's like you've sold another Thriller).

Some sources, listed chronologically:

• China Daily (2005) 51 million copies.

• St. Martin News Networks (CNN article, 2009 = Jackson death) 50 million copies.

• The New York Times (2006) which eventually racked up sales of 51 million copies globally, according to the Guinness World Records, making it the best-selling album in history.

• History Channel (as 2009) 45 million copies.

• Sarasota Herald-Tribune (2006) 50 million copies.

• The Age (2005) 50 million copies.

• SBS World News (2009) 50 million copies.

• MTV (2005) 50 million copies.

• BBC News (2006, November) 140 million copies "According to the same Jackson".

• MSNBC (2005) 50 million copies, but in 2006 beside Access Hollywood said it had sold 100 million copies.

• Piero Scaruffi (as after the death of Jackson) 100 million albums.

• Gotohoroscope (date?, 2004, maybe) 46 million copies

In Wikipedia, since this version (September, 2005) says: "[...]Worldwide, however, Thriller holds the record, sitting at approximately 51 million sales in The Guinness Book of Records" (Without reference course); Although have no reference in article, was credible the sale, because many media at the time they said. In this version (31 January 2006) 149.170.39.34 of UK, vandalized the page saying it had sold 60 million; after, 1 February 2006 Funky Monkey repaired it and added the reference: 51 million copies acording to Guinness World Records (1982-2006). But, in 28 April 2006, 194.129.210.61 (from UK) add: but some sources put the figure closer to 60 million citing as reference UKMIX Forums (Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:00 am; by the spam filter does not put the reference) and this remained. It can be seen then, vandalism of Inflation like this. In 4 november 2006, 68.52.73.111 of Tennessee add: Access Hollywood puts worldwide sales closer to 100 Million copies (The Return of King Pop). "Of course, that is entirely arbitrary, because, after all, the same year the Guinness Book of Records said it was 51 million and this certificate from Guinnes Book was handed over to Jackson himself [in his hands]"'. In later versions, 201.9.239.166 from Brazil, placed the Guinness Book of Records had certified 55 million copies, when obviously is a hoax; although this was removed after. In 14 november 139.133.7.37 of UK says: "According to the Guinness Book of Records(14.11.2006), Thriller is the world's all-time best selling album, with sales estimated at over 104 million copies". 0.234.242.196 from New Zelanda made a "Rv", but, Ashadeofgrey establish again. And successively "lowered or increased the sales", And at least in this version we can see that: "According to the Guinness Book of Records, Thriller is the world's all-time best selling album, with sales estimated at over 104 million copies (Pics of 104 million certificate)". [1], [2]... A terrible hoax all this, in that year, as I repeat, acording to Guinness World Records (1982-2006) Thriller has sold 51 million copies, but according to Wikipedia (as see successively in different versions), "Thriller has sold over 104 million acording to Guinness World Records". This remained so, up to say that Thriller has sold 110, 120 or even, 140 million copies.

Ultimately, it appears that more than 100 million units "Thriller" has sold is a hoax, then expanded to all wikis, and has many sources such as: MTV or Nat Geo Music. I think that in this articles as in other that mention the sales of "Thriller", must be drafted: "Thriller is the best-selling album of all time, with sales estimated by various sources as being between 50 and 65 million copies (not 65-100; not the highest reported numbers) worldwide". After all, sales are closest to their certifications (so before, during and after the death of Jackson). 110 million copies?, besides being thanks [[primary source a hoax, is subjective. Recall that until credibility sources have been based on Wikipedia, without seeing if they are true or fallacies, The Irish Times (media from 1859, very old) for example. Maybe it would be good explain in a note in "Thriller (album)", that although many have said that Thriller has sold 100, 110 million or more, is a hoax or, put that to avoid inflation, sales put more near their certifications (50 between 65). Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 02:35, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the 110 million number was probably not realistic, however now we have three albums on the top as quoted selling 50 million (OK, Thriller 50-65 million) when Thriller has almost the double of the certifications than the second and third placed album. That's odd to say the least. For others it's enough to quote articles on sales (which are either accurate or inaccurate - and frankly, it's not only MJ for whom papers publish inflated numbers), but for MJ now almost only the certified units are accepted... If Back in Black can be quoted as selling 50 million with 25.3 million certified unites, then why can't be Thriller put CLEARLY ahead with 42.1 million certified units? Or let's put it this way: Back in Black is certified 22 million in the USA, Thriller 29 million. In all other markets where certifications are available for both albums Thriller clearly (and often by far) outsold Back in Black. So is it realistic to say now that both sold 50 million? I don't think so. I think to say that Thriller sold at least about 65 million would not be off the mark or irrealistic, considering its certifications. 84.236.54.34 (talk) 05:05, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

You make a very good point: I've seen websites where Back in Black is claimed to have sold as little as 34 million copies worldwide.

It pains me to say this, but the policy here in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Furthermore, we editors are not "truth finders". Nonetheless, drastically lowering the sales of one album while leaving another's intact is a double standard.

The reason why a few editors and I decided to add a column with certifications in the first place was that editors notice, discuss, and solve problems like the one you just mentioned above.

Finally, there's nothing surprising about having 3 albums with a claim of 50 million or 12 albums with a claim of 30 million. It's simply how the media works- they round numbers and exaggerate sales to round figures that end in a 0. It is similar to buying things at a store for 49.99 or 29.99, but backwards.

Why say an album has sold 28 or 29 million copies when you can claim it sold a much more impressive "30 million copies worldwide"?

You'll notice that out of the times an album's sales have been increased during 2011 and 2012, they've almost always increased to a number ending in 0:

•Come on Over: 39 million--> 40 million

•Faith: 20 million--> 25 million

•The Dark Side of the Moon: 45 million--> 50 million

•Back in Black: 49 million--> 50 million

•Metallica: 28 million--> 30 million

•Come Away with Me: 20 million--> 26 million

•Nevermind: 26 million--> 30 million

•...Baby One More Time: 26 million--> 30 million

--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 10:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Ray of Light sold more than 20 million http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/150058.stm — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoreMoneyGomes (talk • contribs) 16:01, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Celine Dion

http://books.google.com/books?id=wA8EAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&hl=pl&rview=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

One of her compilation albums All the Way... A Decade of Song is not listed but said to have sold 21 million copies (72.203.147.78 (talk) 23:09, 25 December 2012 (UTC))

Please provide another reliable source for that claim, thanks Politsi (talk) 01:28, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Madonna

Ray of Light sold more than 20 million http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/150058.stm — Preceding unsigned comment added by MoreMoneyGomes (talk • contribs) 16:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Listen buddy, i know you are a Madonna freak fans. But please do not violates this list, i keep this list to be always reliable and prestigious. If you like Madonna very much and wanted her albums placed so HIGH in this list. then PLEASE FIND the reliable source for her albums (from the Newspaper or Music industry).

I dont know you are a man, a woman, or a gayman. and I dont care, but please do not EVER disturb this list.

But keep in your mind. the certification sales of :

The Immaculate Collection, could cover 35m

True Blue, could cover 30m

Like a Virgin, could cover 30m

But THERE IS NO RELIABLE sales claim that figures. and please accept that buddy!.

for Ray of Light, based on the consensus and hot debated. the 20m figures of that albums is NOT accept in Wikipedia. that album has claim only at 16m. Politsi (talk) 01:37, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Lloyd Webber's The Phantom of the Opera

I'm apologize for the editor who was include this album in the list, i've decided to erase the album because the source for the claim figures (http://movies.about.com/od/phantomoftheopera/a/phantom121904.htm) is NOT reliable.

The sources should be came from a Newspaper or music industry related such as Billboard, MTV/VH1, and Rolling Stones.

Thanks. Politsi (talk) 05:23, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I

I normally don't edit this list, but I came across this reverted edit by Watquaza. HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I was released in 1995 and needs the 20 million claim to be supported by 57.5% certified sales (or 11.5 million in certified units). The album, in fact, has 12.6 million in certified units available.

• 7x Platinum (or 7 million units) in USA
• 3x Platinum (or 1.5 million units) in Germany
• 4x Platinum (or 1.2 million units) in the UK
• Diamond (or 1 million) in France
• 5x Platinum (or 500,000 units) in Canada
• 8x Platinum (or 560,000 units) in Australia
• 3x Platinum (or 300,000 units) in Spain
• 3x Platinum (or 150,000 units) in Switzerland
• 2x Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Austria
• Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Sweden
• Platinum (or 100,000 units) in Poland
• 9x Platinum (or 135,000 units) in New Zealand

The total from the markets above comes down to 12.6. Actually, it's also gone 3x Platinum (300,000 units) in the Netherlands, and Gold in Mexico (100,000 units), neither one's database functions at the moment.--Harout72 (talk) 00:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

The certified copies are there. The problem is, "HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I" it's a double album. That would suggest that every copy counts twice. Therefore, those 12.6 million copies would actually be 6.3 million shipped/sold units. Am I wrong? --Watquaza (talk) 03:49, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I also clearly think that the album It should not be included. I agree with Watquaza. Best regards, Chrishonduras (talk) 03:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

RIAA is the only certifying body which has the rule of counting each disc in multi-disc CD-cases towards certifications. But that rule was applied to multi-disc CDs starting September 1, 1996. Note that HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book I has received its 6x Platinum (for 6 million CD-case units) in in January 1996, months before they began applying the new rule. And it received its final 7x Platinum (for 7 million CD-case units) in 1999. So this album has gone unaffected by the new rule. In other words, had it been affected by the new rule, in 1999 it would have turned into 14x Platinum, not 7x Platinum. I hope this clarifies things a bit.--Harout72 (talk) 04:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

It does, thanks. --Watquaza (talk) 04:51, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Mariah Carey's Daydream claim figures source

http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities.html this source from BET for Carey's Daydream has been out of dated and not exist again. I need help from Carey fans because i already try to find the reliable source for the claim figures but i can not find it.

We need to make sure that all claim figures source is STAND and AVAILABLE. if it seem's there is no source for Carey's Daydream. I will erase that album from the list.

thanks Politsi (talk) 10:54, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for all Mariah Carey fans. I've already try to find the reliable source for Daydreams claim figures, but i have found nothing even many UN-RELIABLE source said the 25m-figures but it is really clear they are just copied from Wikipedia.

So, i will erase that album from the list. thanks Politsi (talk) 11:08, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The source is actually here http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2010/06/11/mariahtwenty.html The album must be back there. --Watquaza (talk) 04:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks buddy, i've been repair make the source figures for Carey's Daydream look more good and reliable. And, personally i always feel that albums sold 25m, but we need to maintain this list very prestigious and reliable. Politsi (talk) 05:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

ARIA appears to apply newer levels to older releases

Months ago I stated in this archived discussion that Australia's earlier certification levels were Gold=25,000/Platinum=50,000. Which is true. But I recently discovered an article, which has sales figures for albums from earlier than 1984 (that's when levels for Platinum switched from 50,000 to 70,000). I noticed that all sales figures posted on that article correlate perfectly when the current Platinum level (70,000) is applied.

For example, ARIA's 2011 database states 16x Platinum for Thriller (released in 1982) which is 1,120,000 when 70,000 units is applied, and that matches with 1,150,000 posted here. With older 50,000 for Platinum, it should be only 800,000 units. Just another example, Meat Loaf's Bat Out of Hell (released in 1977) has been re-certified 24x Platinum in 2011, which is 1,680,000 units when the 70,000 for Platinum is applied, that matches with the 1,770,000 units here. I compared all of them, and it's safe to say that the ARIA applies the current levels when re-certifies older releases. Unlike the 95% of the certifying bodies which apply older/original levels when re-certifying older releases, the ARIA disregards the older levels during the re-certification process. ARIA happens to be the third association I know that applies current levels to older releases. SNEP and RIAA do the same.--Harout72 (talk) 23:22, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

AC/DC's Back in Black

I see that AC/DC's 1980 album Back in Black has 840,000 units posted for Australia, which is equivalent to 12x Platinum, if re-certified by ARIA. I personally can't find that anywhere here. What year is it posted on?--Harout72 (talk) 22:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Ok, never mind, it's posted on here, which is not yet part of the main accreditation page.--Harout72 (talk) 23:03, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Romanza

Romanza should be brought back to the list back sold 20 million albums worldwide,

Romanza, certifications

• 3 million units (or 3x Platinum) in USA
• 6 million units in Europe
• 1 million units (or Diamond) in Canada
• 350,000 units (5x Platinum) in Australia
• 100,000 units (or Gold) in Brazil
• 500,000 units (or 3x Platinum for Italian version, and 3x Platinum for Spanish version) in Argentina
• 45,000 units (or 3x Platinum) in New Zealand

That's a total of 10,995,000 units

But 3,570,000 units missing.

• Usa: 4 miilion+ as of 2009 <http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/266446/boyles-dream-continues-at-no-1-on-billboard-200>
• France: 2million sold <http://www.infodisc.fr/CDCertif_D.php?debut=6>
• +As of 2001, 900,000 in Brazil, 120,000 in Chile, 650,000 in Mexico, 500,000 in Argentina <http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/78214/andrea-bocelli-aims-for-latin-favor>

--Ahmad123987 (talk) 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Timeline

I admire the efforts made at this (and good luck with keeping it up). Just when Soundscan had started to provide some sanity for the last two decades, everything is moving digital (I assume that getting actual sales figures from the likes of Amazon and Apple is not going to happen).

Anyway, one thing that I believe is quite wrong in the article is the Timeline of the highest selling albums. I clearly remember (several times) Rumours being declared (even by Billboard, as I recall) the "biggest selling album of all time" somewhere in its run of thirty-one weeks at number one. I also remember the "Saturday Night Fever" soundtrack taking over that claim (which I was not happy about at the time) not long after that.

I can't say anything regarding either international sales or double counting of the SNF soundtrack, but I do know that many of the albums near the top of the list ("The Dark Side of the Moon" and "Their Greatest Hits" by the Eagles, to name two) have been consistent sellers over the years, and Rumours would have been well ahead of both of them in 1977.

Unlike movies (where unless there is a re-release, when a movie's run is over, it's over), albums keep selling year after year, and the relative sales among albums can change quite a bit over time. I wonder if anyone can access old issues of Billboard magazine, and see what it has to say around that period (the late 1970s).

101.98.141.47 (talk) 08:27, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Done: I did all that was asked, except add Rumours to the Timeline.

According to my research, by the mid 1970's both Tapestry and The Sound of Music had sold over 10 million copies (in Tapestry's case, 13 million) while Rumours only reached the 13 million mark by 1980, by which time Saturday Night Fever and Grease were well past the 20 million sales mark--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 11:37, 21 February 2013 (UTC)