Talk:List of Marvel Comics superhero debuts

What a great Article

Who created this article because it is a really good one? Anyways I am surprised I am the first person to comment on this talk page. Anyways there are characters missing from the golden age which would be nice to see that section fixed up. I will do my best on that part but, could use help. So lets make this article the best it can be now.

Fluffyroll11 (talk) 18:03, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

I created this wikipedia page. Apologies for responding so late. I was just checking some characters info and randomly clicked the Talk tab to see that this question was left unanswered. --Shoxee1214 (talk) 00:16, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Request for Comment

This is a great article that needs to be linked to me pages in the see also section. Anyways there are some errors with this pages and some stuff missing so in it's current formatting I was looking for help to make it the best it can be and also expand the golden age section? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 17:26, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Overlinking and Lack of references issues

@*Treker: So we have an issue with over linking on the page and it needs to be fixed. I love your Idea of adding the in comics years links but, just add one per year per section ok? Also can you help add references for the page? Also do you have any other thoughts on anything for this page? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 21:06, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

One per year might be a good idea actually. I'll try to add some references. Might be worth adding notes about "comics firsts" like "first black comic character to receive their own series" or the like.*Treker (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Thats a really good Idea on the notes. I really like this page for whatever reason. I like your help so lets keep up the good work. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.*Treker (talk) 00:33, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: I added a note about Namor. Also, did Marvel have no characters from the 50s at all?

@*Treker: Ok. After WWII Superhero comics faded and through the 1950s they tried to revive them but, to no avail so they focused on other genres until their monster stories turned into superhero stories in the 1960s. Also don't forget to sign your message at the end with 4 "~" ok? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 02:41, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok. But you remember to add the appropriate number of :::: too? Deal? ;-) *Treker (talk) 03:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Ok (your required to sign but, are ":" really necessary? Anyways I like the addition of the links for the years in comics if you could add it to the first one of each year that would be great. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 03:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Proper indenting makes it easier to follow conversations, especially as they diverge. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:48, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Should we also add next to east decade what age it is? So the 1960s/Silverage? etc. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 13:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: Seems like a neat idea.*Treker (talk) 13:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd only put that where it won't be disputed. There's a gap between the gold and silver ages, and the exact ending of them both is vague. Plus, there's no agreed upon ages after silver. I've seen modern/bronze/iron/chromium/dark/event and even post-modern once. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

You might have a point. We should probably just split it up by decade.*Treker (talk) 14:00, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

The Notes Section

I love the idea of the Notes section but, how should it work exactly? and can we make it a little wider? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 12:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

 Done

The percentages for each column need to add to 100. You had five of them set to 25%. A lower number is a thinner column. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Well wikipedia isn't too kind on including trivia but maybe for things like: "this character first appeared in the television series ......... in the year .... before debuting in the comics" like X-23 for example, or "this character was mentioned in this issue before appearing fully in this issue".

It would help clear up disputes on cameo/true first appearances. That's probably important to people who will view this page. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:56, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: I like the idea of the notes section but, it isn't coming out that well right now and would only be used by a few characters so do you think we should scrap it until we come up with a better way to do it? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 14:07, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: We could do it like in this article where there is a section for the notes.*Treker (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Sure we can try that. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 14:41, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Yeah after some great thought I think the notes section will look a lot better like on that page you gave the example of. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 01:32, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: I don't know how to change the notes section to look exactly like it did on that page you referenced if yo could do that it would be very nice to see. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 21:08, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: Done. :) *Treker (talk) 03:00, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Thank you it came out great. Now we just need to expand it. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: I'll try to do that within the next few days. You're doing a very good job yourself with adding people.*Treker (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: ok thank you. Yeah I'm just about done adding characters and I think it will be good in that regard. Only a few characters left in various eras. The big era I wanted to add to was the Golden age which I feel I am basically done with. So what do you think character wise? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:35, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@Fluffyroll11: It looks damn good in my opinion. But one thing is for sure and that is that there are always new characters and articles to be made eventually.*Treker (talk) 23:39, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@*Treker: Thank You. Yeah I just have a few characters left I wanted to add. Only one new one though. The Mercs for Money. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:46, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Issues on the Page

Ok this is the section I would like to discuss issue/problems on the page like what's missing etc. So here we can talk about what dates are missing, creator issues etc. So a current issue is with Tigra in her creators section. When I first saw Stan Lee credited on this page as her creator, I knew that had to be wrong looked into it and put whats there now but, its a jumbled mess and probably aren't all her creators. Also there are some teams that don't have their initial oater listed below them should we add them or leave it be? etc. So what do you guys think or have anything else to point out? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:08, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Hoping this is the right way to bring this up.

There seems to be quite a bit of ambiguity with some of the entries for teams. For example. With "The Runaways" it lists all of the characters and, as far as I know, Brian K. Vaughan did create all of those characters. Whereas with "The Thunderbolts" Busiek did not create any of the listed characters. There are many examples of this and there does not seem to be an easy way to distinguish the difference in such entries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TaxmanVK (talk • contribs) 18:13, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

I'd be fine with removing all the teams. This is a list for superhero debuts, not superteam debuts. Argento Surfer (talk) 18:36, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Reintroduced character inclusion

Ok so when I went through the evolution of this page from it's creation to evolution there were some ideas that got thrown away. The only one I want to bring back that I can't figure out how to bring back is the golden age characters being reintroduced. So what do you guys think? Fluffyroll11 (talk) 23:15, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

You could add a second entry for the character for the year they came back and include a note that it's their reintroduction. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:23, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

@Argento Surfer: That could work. Fluffyroll11 (talk) 18:30, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

What to include?

I've been making a bunch of additions, but I suppose I should check in and try to start a discussion of what the criteria are for the list. So, a few questions:

1. Who should be on here? I've added some characters who have mostly been super-villains, but have, on occasion, been heroes. What about non-super-powered characters who are good guys?
2. What should we use for the debut date? Some of the previous entries on the list, and all, I think, of my additions, are based on the idea of a debut date when the super-heroic identity was established, rather than the first appearance of the character. That way we're not listing, say, Thunderbolt Ross as a super-hero in 1962 just because he became Red Hulk half a century later. But some of the pre-existing entries have just been listing first appearance overall.
3. Who should be the creators? This is particularly troublesome for characters who are introduced as ordinary people, or villains, by one creative team, then reinvented as superheroes by another.
4. How should teams be listed? Some of the teams have all the original members listed under the team entry; some don't. What about team members who join later, but are introduced in the first issue? (as, for instance, the Young Avengers, who are originally just Patriot, Iron Lad, Hulkling, and Wiccan, but with Kate Bishop showing up as a civilian in #1 and Cassie Lang in #2, and then them joining the team a few issues later in #4, and taking their code names still later, in #6. Wiccan is also called "Asgardian" until #6. How to list?)
5. Related: what about heroes who take on different identities. Should we mark "The Cat" as being introduced in The Cat #1, and then also Tigra as being introduced in Giant-Sized Creatures #1? Or should we just list her once? What about the Power Pack, who are constantly changing their code names, iirc?

Are there other issues I'm not thinking of? john k (talk) 01:19, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

The name of this list is "List of Marvel Comics superhero debuts." I feel like the list, in its current form, would more accurately be titled "List of first appearances of Marvel Comics characters who have at some point been 'good guys.'" Characters like Scarlet Witch or Silver Surfer, who were originally villains, should obviously be included as they ultimately become longstanding superheroes, but Scarlet Witch didn't debut as a superhero until Avengers #16, for example. So can we really say that X-Men #4 is the "superhero debut" of Scarlet Witch? Also, I'm not convinced that characters like Magneto and Loki qualify as superheroes based on the definition from the Wikipedia article. They have sometimes been "good guys" or joined superhero teams, but neither have really shown a dedication to fighting evil or protecting the public. I would also argue that Peggy Carter, for example, is not a superhero. I have no idea why Kraven the Hunter is on this list. If he has been portrayed even as a protagonist at some point, I couldn't find it. And the Punisher? All this to say, I agree that some ground rules need to be established for this list. In its current form, we could just change the word superhero to character in the title (in which case it would be indistinguishable from the more complete List of first appearances in Marvel Comics publications), or we need to establish criteria to distinguish this list. One way to distinguish it would be to list the debut of the character as a superhero. So Carol Danvers would be Ms. Marvel #1, and Crystal would be Fantastic Four #81. Otherwise, what is the point of this list existing separately from the list of first appearances? Idisestablish (talk) 04:07, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Loki

So, I realize there's a "Loki" who appears in a Golden Age comic. But Loki, the Marvel Comics supervillain (and occasional superhero) debuts in Journey into Mystery #85. The "first" appearance in 1949 is an oddity, and shouldn't be highlighted. john k (talk) 10:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Look, Loki is a figure from Norse mythology. As such, he's available for use in general, and I understand that some 1949 comic published by Marvel used Loki as a character. I would strongly dispute the idea that that character named Loki is the same Loki who appears in Thor comics from 1962 onwards. (I don't know, perhaps a retcon was made later, but I highly doubt that anyone involved in making Journey into Mystery #85 even remembered that Loki had appeared in a previous comic book they'd published. At the very least we should list both appearances as first appearances, which is what Marvel itself does. john k (talk) 04:48, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Where is 1950?

Seems like that list has disappeared somehow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.236.178.61 (talk) 10:48, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

A review of page history indicates it never existed. Although there are probably missing entries from the '50s, their scarcity is understandable--superhero comics fell out of favor after WWII due to juvenile delinquency fearmongering and didn't make a comeback until the early '60s.--2600:1008:B00F:6439:611B:6BA5:BCBC:4D3F (talk) 04:01, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 December 2019

I just want to edit heroes

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. MadGuy7023 (talk) 13:31, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

"Learn more"

Is this column needed? It's just links to an unofficial, fan-run wiki. They aren't even proper references. I think these could just be deleted. Scrooge200 (talk) 04:51, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Agreed - I have removed them. This is not a reliable source. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:15, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Good removal. All of that stuff has been added by Vietnamese IPs over the past few years. Probably the same person, since they show the same style. Binksternet (talk) 22:28, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

This page seems to need some serious vetting, seems to contain a lot of errors

I do not have any knowledge on this area, which is why I visited the page. But I was surprised to see that the first Marvel heroes on this page is listed as being from October 1929. But if you follow the links to each character, they are all from October 1930 (10 years later), Marvel Comics issue number 1 was also not published until 1939.

As I said I don't know the truth, but either this page is wrong or every other page on Wikipedia regarding this topic is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.95.57.104 (talk) 21:11, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Human Touch -> Human Torch typo

There's a typo in the Fantastic Four section where it says "Human Touch" instead of "Human Torch. 2001:18C0:219:5400:DCB1:25FA:87C9:C10A (talk) 06:25, 27 August 2021 (UTC)