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Talk:List of Celtic F.C. players/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Help

I could use some help . thanks PalX 13:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Order

In what order are we going to have the occupants of this list? Alphabetical? No. of appearances? Chronological?--Vintagekits 17:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

    • Just toggle the header. you can choose your preferred order any number of ways. Goals, alphabetical, appearances etc.,PalX 10:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Any of those three would be fine. Why don't you choose one? Rockpocket 18:26, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually I would like to see it in Chronological order (first game for first team date) as that would 1. be very interesting and 2. highlight the amount of recentism on wiki - but it might be hard to find everyones start date unless someone has a load of old "green books" - I dont.--Vintagekits 18:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I think appearances and goals could be tricky for some of the older players, but i'm confident I have access to sources that would provide the years players have played. Rockpocket 20:39, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Crack on then.--Vintagekits 20:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I'll get on it tonight. Rockpocket 20:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I think if we look at Birmingham City's notable player section we could learn a lot from it.Its on a different page from the main page,the layout is neat and tidy and the criteria is also very good.It lets in players who have a 100+ appearences and also players who have represented their country.It then goes onto listing players who played less games aswell but who still made a contribution to the club,then the players still serving there are done in bold format.I think we should adopt this as we can list the players who are constantly being debated aswell as the legendary ones whilst still having the stricter criteria section on the main page.(LiamD1 20:11, 12 July 2007 (UTC))


Are players who are still at the club to be added aswell?(LiamD1 15:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC))

Positions

A numbering system was developed by ArtVandelay13 to enable the positions to sort, here they are:

01 - GK
20 - DF
21 - RB
22 - LB
23 - FB
24 - FB/CD
25 - CD
26 - HB
27 - FB/MF
28 - DF/MF
29 - R/LH
30 - WH
31 - MF
32 - RM
33 - LM
34 - RW
35 - LW
36 - W
37 - CM
40 - FW
41 - IF
42 - ST

Rockpocket 05:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Standards

People have added players to this list such as Eyal Berkovic and Magnus Hedman. I have happily added stats for these players, but in doing so confirmed that they really don't seem to meet the standards outlined at the top of the article. Since this is different from the main Celtic page, I'm happy to keep them, especially given that they are foreigners. These are the 3 criterion given: 1. played 100 or more first-class matches, 2. made significant contributions to the club's history, and 3. achieved an international call up whilst a Celtic player are included. #3 is often quite difficult to prove, and even if it wasn't, playing a friendly or meaningless qualification game while a Celtic player shouldn't be a criterion for inclusion. Again, this article was created in order to have far looser standards than the main article, so I'm happy to include them but justifying individuals will be quite difficult. Captkrob 15:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see a talk page "claim for notability" made for players that don't obviously make the cut. This shouldn't be an indiscrimate list, so if there is a good reason a player should be included lets hear it, rather than just adding them by default. For example:
  • Gil Heron - first person of colour to play for the club
  • Billy McPhail - scored a hat-trick in Hampden in the Sun
  • Paolo Di Canio - one of the three Amigos.
I can't think of any reason the likes of Hedman, Annonni and Berkovic are notable, so unless a decent claim is made I will remove them. Rockpocket 17:09, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
As its an Irish club based in Scotland, all Irish players are automatically notable.--Vintagekits 17:18, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Goodness, Vk. Read that back to yourself and you might realise how ridicuously partisan you sound. Rockpocket 17:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
For God sake, I was kiddin!--Vintagekits 18:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh, Ok. That is quite funny actually, more so that I actually thought you were serious! Rockpocket 18:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Hold on a minute rocketpocket for godsake.If you keep that stupid attitude up all well end up with is the exact same list of player from the main article except theyll be on this page aswell.Theres meant to be a looser criteria for this page for the players that people like you keep removing from the main page ohh this player does not meet criteria,this player is not inherently notablethis page is created for players like that to be added cause big wig editors like you wont allow them on the main page (217.44.96.46 18:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC))

Please stop with the personal comments, they are not constructive. The "stupid attitude" to which you refer is simply reflecting the standards set out in the article itself. Wikipedia does not do indiscriminate lists (that is what categories are for), therefore there has to be some criteria for inclusion. Please read up on our policies before dishing out abuse to other editors, inn future. Rockpocket 18:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Well how exactly do they not meet criteria.Hedman and Berkovic got caps at Celtic,Annoni is exactly the kind of player that this list was made to accomadate for so why you're removing then is 100% beyond me(217.44.96.46 20:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC))

Fair enough, re: Hedman and Berkovic, what exactly is Annoni's claim? Rockpocket 20:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
And, please, if you insist on adding players, please put them in the correct chronological order, give the the correct position abbreviation and the correct number the list the positions. Don't just copy the format from the person above. This is all pointed out in caps in the article. Please read that before adding players, or they may be removed. Rockpocket 20:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Cant understand Annoni either - neither his arrive, time at or departure from Celtic was or is notable.--Vintagekits 19:33, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
  • he had Laudrup in his pocket. Maybe not notable but memorable. This guy was supposed to be a legend or something over at Rangers. Rico showed him up. PalX 21:04, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Instead of having a list that gives out all that information on players who arent considered notable enough for the main section would it not seem better to have the list template applied to the players in the main article only?By doing that we could apply the criteria from the list section to the players that were formerly in the list section and use the template used on the main page for them.So that way on the main page we could have all the players in the list section in the main page template and a link above it could be to a more structured list section containing the players that are on the main page just now.What do you think?(LiamD1 20:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC))

Why not have the notable Celtic player's list only open to players who have played a minimum number of games or one's who have played less than the minimum number but have won full international caps during their stay (maybe a minimum no. of caps - i.e. Teddy Bjarnason has won 2 full Iceland caps but not played many 1st team games so should not be included in the notable players list (yet)). Then any other Celtic player can fall into the "others" section whether they have played one game or more.


Before the door shuts heres an outline of what my proposal was, all the players who are currently on the main page would be put into a list section on there own as they are more notable and it is more worth while or people to know how many games they played than just any Celtic player.Then all the players who have gained a international cap at some point aswell as the the really notable ones who are in the list section would be merged into something like this on the main page(note:I have added players who are currently in the squad only to see how it would look):

So there would be that on the main page,a list of players who have made a significant contribution played a decent number of games for the club or have recieved a international call up.And then above that a link to a list section containing Celtics most notable players and information on there number of goals appearences etc.Anyone want to go with that.(LiamD1 18:19, 14 August 2007 (UTC))

Merge this material from main article to this one

For a full list see - Wikipedia article List of Celtic F.C. players

Willie Buchan

I created his article earlier but haven't been able to find his stats for Celtic. He may well belong in this article. - Dudesleeper · Talk 15:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Additions

Would someone please add: Du Wei, Mohammed Salim, Mohammed Camara, Olivier Tebily, Jorge Cadete, Rafael Scheidt, Rolando Ugolini, Enrico Annoni, Vidar Riseth, Harald Brattbakk, Dariusz Wdowczyk, Andreas Thom, (LiamD1 16:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC))


I knew this would happen.I asked someone to add these player a week ago and no one has done anything.I don't know how to add these players so could someone do it.The list will never be finished at this rate.(LiamD1 21:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC))

Du Wei didn't play a full game for Celtic, Scheidt played only a handful as did Ugolini. I'll add the others when I get a chance, however it would help if you could provide the appearances, years and goal data instead of just demanding they be added and leaving others to do the research. Rockpocket 01:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

This list will never be finished.I told you that when you changed the format but everyone knew better.(LiamD1 20:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC))

Liam. Stop moaning and go and update the list yourself. Anybody can edit. That's the whole point about Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.232.1.88 (talk) 12:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

If you had read the other talk page you would know that I dont have a clue how to edit these kinds of lists.(LiamD1 13:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC))

  • Liam, you are going to have to learn to edit it. Also I would say, to avoid recentism, that a player should not be on the list if the player has played for Celtic in the last ten years.--Vintagekits (talk) 13:48, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


List of Celtic players

I propose this list follows the format of all other wikipedia articles that have the name, List of xxx F.C. player. By this I mean that only notable players should be listed, those who have made over 100 appearances or have made a contribution to the club. And not as Vintagekits pointed out, any celtic players from the last ten seasons. y8c (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I wouldnt agree with that. Obtaining in excess of 100 league appearances is not the only way to become a "notable" player imo. Also if you read my comment I am saying that no players from the last 10 years should be added to avoid recentism.--Vintagekits (talk) 19:41, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


that said I propose by way of compromise and consistency ;
100 Celtic matches and/or
an international callup whilst a Celtic player
and/or
significant contribution (in the loosest sense to avoid edit warring)
and not include players in the last 10 years as per WP:RECENTISM
PalX 19:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Notable players

This is becoming a joke. The standard wikipedia article follows that players be notable if they make over 100 first team appearances (League, Europe and Cups inc) or have made a significant contribution to the club. e.g Lisbons Lion or founding member. How can you describe some of the players listed previously as notable? They are only so in opinion and not in fact! y8c (talk) 20:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

  • I cannot figure out your true view on this. Are you genuinely trying to be impartial ?I say this having recalled your wholesale cutting which I assume is what you genuinely feel should happen.

It makes imminent sense to me that e.g. Roy Keane (10 apps)is notable but I accept others might view this differently. Why argue the point? It accomplishes nothing to remove him but simply detracts from the list. I might not agree with Gil Heron (3 apps) but given that it was such a long time ago and probably the only ever jamaican to play for the team, then he's notable too in somebody's eyes and should be left in. Notability is variable. There is no definitive answer. One could set parameters but they're going to be persistently contested. Just leave it be is my recommendation. PalX 09:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay if we were to follow the guidelines below;
  • Around 100+ first team appearances gets you in.
  • Irrespective of number of games, if they were a significant "first" for Celtic they could be included (e.g., Gil Heron). However, trivial firsts should be discounted (e.g. Shaun Maloney - as the first Malaysian born Scot under 4 feet tall to don the Hoops)
  • Irrespective of number of games, if they were unique, unusual, or newsworthy (beyond the norm) in relation to Celtic they could be included (e.g., Mo Johnston and Alfie Conn, Jr. for obvious reasons)
I will edit the page accordingly. Would that suit everbody? y8c 00:17, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good but I can foresee number 3 causing problems. But yes, lets give it a whirl.--Vintagekits 13:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

To be honest I think its better to just leave it the way it was before.Theres only a few players who wouldnt be getting in under these new rules an undoubtedly people will want to see them added so its better off just sticking them all in as that was what we introduced the list for in the first place(LiamD1 (talk) 14:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC))

Players on list with less than 100 games

There's quite a few players with <100 games on the list, but I've managed to come up with "reasons" for notability for most of them. However, I'm struggling with the guys listed below. I mean, Paddy McCourt was on his day a tremendously skillful player and scored some astounding goals, but can he really be considered "notable"?

Craig Bellamy - 15 games, 9 goals
John Millsopp - 19 games, 1 goal
Maciej Żurawski - 55 games, 22 goals
Mick McCarthy - 64 games, 1 goal
Alan McInally - 85 goals, 22 goals
Paddy McCourt - 88 games, 10 goals

Advice please! ShugSty (talk) 21:04, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

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