Talk:Kendo/Archive 1

Archive 1

Kumdo (Korean Kendo)

Kumdo is the Korean pronuctiation of kendo. Although Korea now has there own organizations. Such as the World Kumdo Assc., & the Korea Kumdo Assc. There are very few differances between the two arts. Kumdo does not do sankyo before sparring, & some Koreans have made slight changes to the hakama. Both arts compete in the same tournaments in which you will see that kumdo pratictioners do sankyo in kendo tournaments out of respect. The problems between kendo & kumdo are unfounded, for they are basicly one in the same. There are some Koreans that give a false history of kumdo, but that should not reflect all practictioners of the art. Kumdo obviously came from kendo during the Japanese occupation of Korea. Rather swordsmanship origially came from Korea to Japan ~1000 yrs ago is erelavent because there is no solid proof either way.

Why is this here? If people want to learn about kumdo they can just directly go to the kumdo article. Eugenius 02:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but apparently the original talk page has been deleted and the links that people had posted for discussion have been removed. There was some discussion about addressing the kendo/kumdo controversy. If I remember correctly, somebody had referenced this article (http://www.kendo-world.com/articles/web/korea/index.php) as a starting point for writing up a section on the kendo/kumdo controversy. --Gar2chan 16:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I really find the debate pointless. Eugenius 02:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Table

I put in a table., Can someone please check for the Kana, Romaji, and other Japanese spellings? Much obliged.--Nightryder84 04:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Done. Checked the Romaji and fixed only one, as well as quickly looking over the whole article. Maybe sometime later, important terms could also be listed in Kanji as well. ---Gar2chan 12:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Grading

9 and 10 dan are no-longer given out. The highest grade anyone can now attain is 8dan.

This is incorrect, see the kendo page for an explanation.

Here's a quote from http://www.kendo-usa.org/rank.htm that explains why one might think that 8-dan is the highest given. (As this isn't in the public domain, please don't move it to the main page.) -- DImfeld 07:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Currently there are no 10 dan in kendo. It is doubtful there will ever be another. Even the attainment of 9 dan now seems remotely possible. Only 1 percent of applicants pass the 8 dan test.

There is a common perception that 9+10 dan are no longer available, it's just there haven't been any awarded lately. Two things to consider are; provision for 9+10 dan are still in the IKF Grading Rules and in the draft of the rules to be reviewed in December 2006 at the IKF meeting; and recently the AJKF offered a distinguished sensei 9th dan. The outcome of the offer is another matter. So, the current dan exam rules provide for those levels and recent practice shows that there are still possibilities for advancement to 9 dan.

Kendo in Canada

Kendo appears to have a large following in Canada, and is growing. Most clubs are usually apart of Universities, and there are a small handful of individual clubs outside universities in Ontario. I am unsure as to the number of seperate clubs that are established, but I do know that they are slowly growing in number.

The largest club in Canada is most likely from the University of Toronto, and they hold regular tournaments each year between the various clubs in Ontario with at least 200 people attending each year. I can obtain clarification and better details on these points shortly.

The Canadian Kendo Federation oversees all Canadian Kendo clubs and tournaments, and their website can be found at (http://kendo-canada.com/)

--DaisukeNiwa 17:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Kata List

Does anyone think it's a good idea to list each of the 10 kata with a short description of what each one is? I'm very new to Kendo so I don't know if this is a more complicated issue than I think or if there are other reasons not to, but it seems like more detail in this section might be nice. Comments? -- DImfeld 23:13, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

That might be a good idea to help flesh out the article. If enough information can be gathered, I'm sure actually a pretty interesting article can be written about the evolution of the modern kendo kata. On YouTube, there's some videos of pre-war kendo kata...

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=pre-war+kendo+kata

Interesting stuff. --Gar2chan 07:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Looked over the pre-war Kendo kata. At the level of Shodan or Nidan, there's only really a few differences (most notably being pace, which is based on level, and a few steps; Sanbonme, Kodachi Sanbonme). There's no real evolution except for a little bit of editing, the scenarios are the same, the reactions are the same, etc...etc...

If you guys want it, I can write a brief summary of the kata. The only problem is that I'm horrendously unfamiliar with WikiCode. If I put it into its own section and gave some pointers on how to format it, would someone be willing to put it all in a table or some sort of thing? Kishyotai 11:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Kendō vs Kendo

I just noticed that the article uses "kendō" instead of "kendo" and wondered if it'd be better as a point of style to leave "kendō" in merely the pronounciation guide at the beginning of the article rather than repeat it over and over again in the article. The standard style of Romanization of Japanese tends to forego usage of the "ō" in spellings (see akido, judo, , kyudo, budo, or heck, even Tokyo). While I can appreciate the fact that the "ō" in "kendō" promotes a proper pronounciation of "剣道", I think it's simpler to leave it as kendo and if no one strongly objects, I'll change it back as such. --Gar2chan 09:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Correction made. --Gar2chan 15:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Kobayashi Hideo (Todai kendo)

There needs to be an article or section on Todai's kendo association. Chris 00:55, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Wrong Link

The Link of the German Kendo Federation is Wrong, Kendomonster.de is a a German Kendo League of the Berlin Kendo Club EDKG (Translated in English EDKG means:(First German Kendo Club) the offical Site of the German Kendo Federation is dkenb.de this is the Site of the German "Kendo Bund" which is the only Head Asociation of Kendo in Germany. So i changed the Link!

"enlightened"?

This is from the article: "Since that time, many warriors have become enlightened through kendo practice"

This, to me, sounds like a POV statement. I see no difference between the above statement and one where you state "over the years many people have communicated with God through prayer". In wikipedia it is not stated that Buddha DID achieve enlightenment or that Jesus IS the son of God. Wikipedia is merely stating what the individual religions believe, this article should also reflect this NPOV. I'm removing the statment in question. Unless of course I have misunderstood the usage of enlightenment in this article. Fred26 10:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this should be amended Kishyotai 11:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Similar problems with beginning of History section

Similarly to the above, the 'Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts' quote at the beginning of the history section strikes me as POV mumbo-jumbo. Why not karate, or anything else? How can any one specialized martial art really be said to embody the fighting arts of an entire culture? If nobody objects, I'm going to remove that fairly soon. -Toptomcat 01:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

No argument from me. To be precise on why: Some believe koryu-kata is the essence of Japanese fighting arts. So there are obviously people who disagrees with the "'Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts'". There are prolly other arguments as well. Fred26 09:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair comment, but I disagree, kendo players continue to become enlightened through the rigours of difficult practice and study. Particularly some of the metaphysical concepts of kendo and bushido in general. It may be a POV, but it is a POV of kendo players, so does belong in this article. Karate is mentioned above, but it, nor any other art is excluded from the possibility of enlightenment. This article though, is about kendo. Therefore I have reinstated the enlightened statement. Similarly the embodied statement has been reinstated. Chardy

I can only speak for the "enlightenment"-stuff. Again: There is no difference in claiming "he/she achieved enlightenment" and claiming "he/she ascended into heaven". The proper thing to do in this case would be to proclaim, (just as a crude example), "Many kendo-practitioners claim to have achieved enlightenment throughout the years...". If you insert the removed statement: "many kendo-practitioners have achieved enlightenment" (or however it was put), then it will not be a NPOV statement with regards to religion and it will be removed again.

This whole "'Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts'" still sounds like a POV to me but not as tangible a POV-statement as the "enlightenment"-part. I'll ask a few budo-friends what they think. Fred26 05:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, Fred. The statement needs to be qualified with something like, "Many historians of Japanese budo claim that kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts", and then, that statement should be referenced to a reliable article/source that supports that claim. If there's no good reference at the moment to be found, I believe that it should be removed under Wiki standards to maintain NPOV and a professional encyclopedia-style tone. --Gar2chan 08:21, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Enlightenment; embodies and essence. Three "e" words!

The online Oxford has: Embody : ... to embody one's ideas in a treatise. Essence : The constituent elementary notions which constitute a complex notion, and must be enumerated to define it; sometimes called the nominal essence. Enlightenment : ... or the state of being enlightened or instructed. Treatise : A written composition on a particular subject, in which its principles are discussed or explained; a tract.

I argue and ask you to consider the above and that the use of the word "embodies" and "essence" are appropriate in the context of the learning or enlightenment required to do kendo well. I also acknowledge that words may have differing meanings in different contexts, take "essence" as an example and that a minor edit may benefit the entry.

Fred, you suggest that you'll ask some "budo friends" for their opinion. Will they include kendo players? We all are probably aware that perspectives may differ depending on ones own experience. Even though I have met and trained with the former son in law of "O-sensei" and some of his students, I would not dream of expressing an opinion about aikido.Kendo 66 12:22, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well its true, enlightenment has many meanings, but since this article put this text: "In this period kendo developed under the strong influence of Zen Buddhism. The samurai could equate the disregard for his own life in the heat of battle, which was considered necessary for victory in individual combat, to the Buddhist concept of the illusory nature of the distinction between life and death." right before the "many kendo practitioners have achieved enlightenment", I naturally assumed they are talking about the religious concept of enlightenment which of course is still POV. If we are strictly speaking of the more non-religious version of "enlightenment", I would personally not choose the word "enlightened" over the word "instructed".

As for the "budo-friends" they are located at the www.ebudo.com/forums. Namely this topic http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?p=422825. The reason I asked for their help is because as you hinted: I'm not a kendoka and might not be well-versed with what kendo is. But I do know, mostly anyways, what wikipedia is and what wikipedia strives for. There are kendoka at the forum which have given their input, I would apreciate your input there as well. 81.216.27.2 13:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I await an ebudo moderator to allow me to view the forum, but no offence, I probably won't bother with ebudo. In the meantime, I think the author of the words that we are debating may be known to many budoka for his translation of Musashis 5 rings book. I am quite happy that his knowledge from extensive research and his kendo experience is credential enough for the choice of words that we are debating and is "above" the POV problem, therefore is a reliable source.

Try performing a search, using key words like "embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts"

I don't interpret the "essence" claim as being exclusive to kendo. Just that if one studies kendo properly, then enlightenment may be gained. The same may happen by studying other subjects as well.Kendo 66 03:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Tbere is a problem in the base assumptions being made here. The consensus is that the statement is POV, but because it is a POV that all kendoka share, it is acceptable. That is untrue. Do we edit the Church of Scientology page from the perspective of a Scientologist, the Republican Party page from the perspective of a Republican? Should we? It would seem self-evident that the answer is no. Similarly, editing our article on kendo exclusively from the perspective of kendoka, to the point of preserving an admittedly POV statement because it is consensus among them, is also flawed. -Toptomcat 03:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Would you be happy to replace "Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts." with "It has been said that Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts." ? Kendo 66 02:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Not really. See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words for a concise explanation about why that sort of thing is discouraged. -Toptomcat 02:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Toptomcat. If you write the sentence "It has been said that Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts" it's nebulous as to who has actually "said" it. Things need to be properly referenced in order to adhere to Wikipedia standards. Oh, and for the record... I'm a kendoka. I'm been a student (on and off) for over 13 years, and yes, I'm against the use of POV statements that might hurt this article from reaching a higher standard.  ;) --Gar2chan 07:56, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Gar2chan, you wrote "...it's nebulous as to who has actually "said.." it" but earlier you suggested "The statement needs to be qualified with something like, "'Many historians of Japanese budo claim that" surely that suggestion is also nebulous? Tomcat, what is your suggestion then? And do you all think that enlightenment can not be found by studying kendo?. Does kendo (amongst other martial arts) not have the essence of budo or embody the budo principles?Kendo 66 12:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I suggested adding that line, but -this is key- with references. We could add the "Many historians" line provided we had several links to articles by reputable historians of Japanese history writing something to the effect that "kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts". However, since we don't have any such links at the moment, I think the statement should be removed because it establishes a biased POV that is unnecessary for an informative article about the history and art of kendo. I think other Wiki-posters have noted that it implies a "status" above other Japanese budo arts. If no one else has a compelling reason to keep that statement, I think the general consensus of this discussion is to remove the line... apologies Kendo66. While I can sympathize what you're trying to communicate about kendo, I think there are more skillful and Wiki-compliant ways for us to write it into the article. --Gar2chan 09:47, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

My suggestion is to eliminate the line 'Kendo embodies the essence of the Japanese fighting arts' from the beginning of the history section as a biased statement. It implies unique status beyond that of other gendai budo, and this is simply untrue- karate, in particular, has equivilent or higher stature. The 'enlightenment' debate is beyond my meager Wiki-fu. -15:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't imply unique status to kendo IMO. The sentence just says that kendo has something that exists. That something may well be shared by other things as well.Kendo 66 08:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It is, however, too subjective a statement to be truly encyclopedic. -Toptomcat 21:42, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I feel the "essence of martial arts" is becoming a bit too complex for me here so I'm gonna keep back and observe anymore debate on that issue. However, when it comes to the enlightenment-statement I think this debate is winding down to a continued "block" of the statement. However, before doing that I would like to state my own non-enyclopedia view on the matter, which I of course will not post in the Kendo-article. Please note this is not a rant or anything written with negativity in mind. I train japanese martial arts. To be specific, as can be seen in my profile, I train the koryu martial art of Shinto Muso-ryu Jodo. I do not train for the sake of physical training or for showing off my technical prowess, fun as that may be sometime ;). I DO train, however, for the sensation of the very deep concentration and awareness that you experience. This may be religious or biochemical or some form of psychological reaction. It might be a complete "fake" as in placebo or whatever, but to be honest I do not care which it is (if any), but it does mean I take concepts such as enlightenment and "awareness" seriously, and any (albeit non-proven) spiritual connections between the training and soul (if any) is something I do not disregard just because it's not scientific fact. I strive to cultivate this "awareness" and deep concentration in my training for personal reasons. At this stage in my training it is prolly the sole reason I keep coming back for more regardless of how tough it gets, stressed you become or how painful it is (physically). (thats not to diminish the value of good friendship and the physical excercise). Please note: When I say "awareness" and "deep concentration" I do not mean specifically the buddha view of enlightenment, but they are in the same category when it comes to scientific proof..That is to say very VERY difficult to prove if at all possible.

So when someone writes a book with talk of enlightenment I might personally be inclined to take it as fact. But! I do not feel that such talk should be stated as FACT in an encyclopedia-entry regardless of how much I might agree with it. Thats the only reason I object to the "enlightenment"-statement in question. Its nothing personal against any author that, for all intense and purposes, have actually achived enlightenment through kendo, or against any wiki-user suggesting the incorporation of his/hers text. Its simply a matter of upholding what I believe are sound principles (Neutral Point of View). Well I think that pretty much sums up my reasoning in this matter. Thanks for reading :) Fred26 18:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Modern Kendo Pictures?

The pictures under the Modern Kendo heading, while exciting and energetic don't show proper ki-ken-tai-ichi, as the person demonstrating is visibly in the air in a few of them, and has not stepped properly in any of them. Suggest deletion or replacement with pictures that are more demonstrative of proper technique? 70.64.7.224 07:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for adding more pictures as long as we comply with copyright issues... the current ones are OK, but I think that we can keep a look out for better photos in terms of size/res, quality of photography, and quality of kendo in the photo. In the current photo of tsuki, it looks like the kendoka is levitating in the air with both feet off the ground, which of course is a big no-no. Kendo is definitely something that can be explained more thoroughly with illustrations and photos rather than only text, so if anybody out there in Wiki-land has some good and relevant photos to post, I encourage you to put them up! :) --Gar2chan 15:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

That was the first thing i was going to point out, the photos really need to be replaced. I will try and source some 'better' ones cant promise the best = / Stpk4 22:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Kendo outside Japan picture=

The context for the first picture in the Kendo outside Japan may be incorrect. The 13th World Kendo Championship was held in Taipei, Taiwan. The picture refers to the 2006 World Fencing Championship in Turin, Italy. Unless this is actually affiliated with some fencing event that happened to include some kendoka as part of the event, something may be wrong with the context presented.--scout3801

That photo has been on the page since long before the WKC and was taken, I think at the World Fencing Championship, during a kendo demo.

Equipment section?

The intro to the article is starting to get a little long and the ending few sentences seem to me to distract from a clear, concise explanation of what kendo is. I think it'd be a good idea to move this following chunk of text to a brand-new section that discusses more in-depth the equipment used in kendo. Some wording / grammar also needs to be cleaned up in this too...

Kendo is practiced using "swords" made of split bamboo called shinai and extensive protective armour (bogu) is worn to protect specified target areas on the head and body. Kendoka also use bokuto (wooden swords) to practice set forms known as kata. The uniform worn under the bogu is called a kendogi and is usually indigo but sometimes black, consists of two parts: the upper robe looking piece is called a keikogi and the pants known as a hakama the pants are very wide legged are commonly mistaken for a long skirt. Kendo is done in bare feet.:

The other option to creating a new "equipment section" would be to maybe move that chunk of text to the "modern kendo" section, since the kendo equipment that kendoka use today has evolved from the art's early practice, both in terms of materials used to make the equipment, and the build of the equipment.

Anybody else have thoughts on the matter? --Gar2chan 16:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

External links

As many people seem to want links to more Kendo federations, and it would be nice to have more information about Kendo around the world, I have made a page Kendo around the world, inspired by the Soccer around the world page and moved the list of Kendo federations there. Francis Bond (talk) 03:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

External links to some world kendo federations were removed by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Veinor, I subsequently reinstated them because they were relevant. Shortly thereafter my edits were reverted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sir_Nicholas_de_Mimsy-Porpington, and again by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Naohiro19.

I visited Veinors talk page to discuss, left a question, but have not had a reply yet. I don't understand also why Veinor you left the european and USA links, but removed other valid ones. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kendo 66 (talk • contribs) 11:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

The reason that I removed most of them is that Wikipedia is not a directory of external links. I left the USA one probably of my pro-America bias, and the European to try to counter that. I wouldn't object to a link to a page with that list, as long as it's a reliable source. Veinor ^{(talk to me)} 17:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

External link and associated text list, whixh was removed from the main page on 17 June 2007.

Costume/uniform

Someone cahnged costume to uniform, and on the basis that "costume" is derogatory. IMHO it is not, and uniform is inaccurate. But perhaps "outfit" or "clothing" would be better? Rich Farmbrough, 15:52 30 January 2007 (GMT).

I agree with the above, but like costume. However and as a few days have passed I have changed uniform to clothing. Kendo 66 04:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Does this page need semi-protection?

For some reason I cannot understand there is a wave of (pathetic) vandalism hitting this article from various IP-adresses. It's not content-dispute but rather one-liners which sounds like they were made up by a 12 year old. It's been going on for some time, (especially during january), and I was thinking of introducing a semi-protection status on this article until further notice. Comments? Fred26 04:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't seem like the vandalism is ceasing. I'm gonna propose a suitable protection for this article. Fred26 08:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Kendo 66, You missed Battōjutsu. Please vandalize that one too. Red phase 15:30, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Red phase, you have done some very good work on the Iaido page, the tabularisation of the seitagata, for example. However in that you did not use macrons, so I find your current interest in using macrons, well, interesting.

As explained elsewhere the use of macrons in Japanese words that are in now current use in English is not the modern convention. Words like "Battōjutsu" are probably a grey area, where, say, judo, kendo, iaido are not, as they are widely used in English.

The use of a macron to explain the pronunciation of a word, at the beginning of articles is quite understandable though.

And in closing, your use of the word "vandalism" is abusive and inaccurate as is describing me as a "jerk". I would be quite happy to discuss this issue politely.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendo 66 (talk • contribs)

Or get a couple of shinais and fight it out. (joking there). Yea, be careful with workds like vandalism and jerk. Sometimes its just a legitimate mistake that people make, or a misunderstanding.

I do not think that protection is necessary at this point.

BTW Does something called "street kendo" really exist? I did see this weblink when I did a Google search http://espytv.com/streetkendo.htm. Maybe this is just a marketting gimick or something. Piercetp 18:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Strike images

I'm not a kendoka, but shouldn't the forward foot be hitting the ground simultaneously as contact in the Men photo? VanTucky 21:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Those are exceedingly bad examples, and I'm not using a very high standard here, even dan-less kendoka should be able to do better. At the very least, no judge should allow some of those hits to score and a real tournament. -RoSeeker 04:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the strike images should be better. Hopefully someone will donate some un-copyrighted photos or images soon. The "levitating tsuki" is a big eyesore, IMHO. O_o --Gar2chan 21:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Intro

Hey, just read the introduction and was shocked how something that POV could find its way into an article and stay there. Ok, it's mind challenging, you develop body and spirit, everything, but maybe you should express it less ambitiously ;). And maybe the elogy on Kendo from the whatever Kendo association Japan should not be in the introduction. --Ben ^T/_C 08:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I've moved it out of the intro where it should def not have been, someone who know's more should look @ it though. --Nate1481( ^t/_c) 10:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

References, sources and citation

Brad 44, I have difficulty in understanding your reasoning for placing this banner on the Kendo page.

{{articleissues
|article=y
|refimprove=August 2007
|primarysources=August 2007
|citationstyle=August 2007}}

To help me, please list the sections that you challenge for accuracy. Kendo 66 07:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to (and first, please be aware that new topics ought to normally be added to the bottom of a discussion page). At the outset, the reason for tagging the article in the first place is to make the editors (and readers) aware of the most important places that improvement is needed. I'm interested in getting more martial arts related articles moved up the classification scale. This article is currently B-class, and I would like to see it make more progress towards GA-class. With that in mind, the following areas need improvement to make it through GA review.

• {{refimprove}} is the most straightforward. Generally speaking, a good article should have every related block of information cited with an inline citation. At the GA level, this normally means at least every paragraph should be referenced. Obviously, many sections of this article lack any citations at all.
• {{primarysources}} references the fact that there is not enought diversity among sources, and no references not intimately related to the practice of kendo. Citing to the ZNKR for rules and history of the ZKNR is fine, but for general history and other things, published and peer-reviewed work is necessary for a GA class article. See WP:Reliable sources.
• {{citation style}} See WP:CITE#HOW. Citations should use citation templates or a citation manual. I prefer the templates because I think they are easier to use.

I hope that clears everything up. It would be great to see this article improve! Bradford44 16:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Improvements needed to submit for GA review

I see some areas that still need cleanup to submit the article for promotion to GA. I'm going to tag the article for cleanup until they are addressed.

1. Pictures. Arrays of pictures are normally not approved of. Pictures should generally relate specifically to points being made within the text that they are near; galleries are discouraged.
2. Citation style. Someone came through and cleaned these up a lot, which is great. What still needs to be addressed is that there are not enough, especially in the "History" and "Modern Kendo" sections (at least one reference per paragraph is usually necessary to pass GA. A single source may be repetitively tagged, but it should actually be tagged at the end of every paragraph to which it applies, so readers can tell that the content has been referenced). Also, ref tags should appear inline with the article text they reference, they should never be tagged to section headings.
3. There are some deviations from WP:HEAD and WP:MOS-JP that I plan to address.
4. "The Concept and Purpose of Kendo" section and subsections need some fleshing out, and a citation for the credo that is quoted.

I'd love to see another martial arts article make GA! Bradford44 02:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Where are people interested in Kendo?

hey, i LOVE kendo and sword play, where in the world are other people who do too? Please tell me ur location and prove to me (and my friends) that i'm not a weirdo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WorldConquest (talk • contribs) 18:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at http://www.kendo-fik.org/. Chances are you will find a Dojo near you.

And you are NOT a weirdo. I am into Kendo and it literaly changed my life. It takes hard work and committment but if you got the time and energy its totally worth it. Good luck. Piercetp (talk) 07:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Slight error

In the "history" section it states, "Use of the shinai and armour (bogu) made possible the full force delivery of strikes and thrusts without inflicting injury on the opponent. " This is incorrect. I have studied Sakurai-ha Kogen Itto Ryu and I can assure you a full-force kote strike is utterly disabling. I almost had my wrist broken that way. The kote bogu is good, but not THAT good, particularly at the seam over the wrist. We were always trained to "pull" our kote strikes (in other words, NOT to deliver them with full force). The same is true for tsuki strikes. I'm not sure of the validity of them, but there are stories of people who have died from improperly delivered tsuki strikes, or tsuki strikes using faulty equipment. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, but I just started using Wikipedia and was unsure where else I could go to bring this to someone's attention. Please forgive me if I haven't followed proper protocol or have inconvenienced you! Zweifachheit (talk) 23:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)Zweifachheit, 3:20 Pacific Standard Time, 02-26-2008

We don't pull the kote strike, but rather with proper tenouchi it should reabsorb most of its momentum. Some schools train to hit kote with more force than others though, but a properly hit strike should never be disabling in kendo. What you practice sounds more like kenjutsu, which can be dangerous when practiced in bogu with a shinai as tenouchi is not emphasized as the end of the strike, so there's less "bounce" to the hit. Kendo equipment is designed for kendo, jukendo, and naginata only, as far as I know. SamuelRiv (talk) 04:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

A well made Kote strike is very sore, and tends to leave rows of red stitch marks, which can remain for a couple of days, but is a great teacher to remind one of one's proper stance, with elbows IN. When I started, we were shown how, but not encouraged to try tsuki strikes, as it is very dangerous when carried out by the inexperienced. Even a kote strike, when you are following through rapidly can go wrong. (I once stabbed a friend of mine in the shoulder rather hard. Luckily she was not seriously injured)82.6.1.85 (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2010 (UTC)Lance Tyrell

equipment: shinai size

This article is lacking detailed explanation of the shinai size and I'm thinking about adding this information so the people planning to start kendo will practice with legal shinai.

Under international kendo federation regulations, regulations for shinai are specifically set. Current regulations for the shinai can be seen at [1]

Teppei95070 (talk) 06:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi, shinai size and specs for competition are also on the wikipedia shinai page.Kendo 66 11:54, 4 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendo 66 (talk • contribs)

Semi-contact?

I'm confused by the distinction between full and semi-contact with respect to kendo. According to the definitions on the Contact sport page, ice hockey (which involves body checking, and protective gear) is a "full contact" sport while kendo (which involves taiatari and bogu) is "semi-contact." To make it more confusing, I've always been told in kendo that the techniques we practice are full power (i.e. since the cut is accomplished by the forward motion rather than the force of the strike)--but the semi-contact definition says "the techniques are restricted to limited power."

Anyhow, it's certainly nothing serious, but I wondered if the "Hardness" of the kendo page should be changed (or, if the Contact sport page should be clarified)?

--Bedlamhotel (talk) 14:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Tai atari

I added the phrase "tai atari" to the article about Ramming, specifically about the Japanese name for an extreme air warfare tactic. Can somebody here go to that article and add the Kanji characters for "tai atari"? I can't do that myself. Thanks in advance! Binksternet (talk) 17:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Done Francis Bond (talk) 12:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! Binksternet (talk) 13:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Traditional Kendō

I see nothing in this Traditional Kendō article that shouldn't be in this article entitled Kendo. Is this simply a content fork? They share pretty much the same content, same photos being used to illustrate them. Should they be merged? Canterbury Tail talk 18:34, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

• I would say NO MERGE. The Traditional Kendō article was created by someone with a strong POV and the article is full of it. To merge with the Kendō article would ignite an edit war, I fear.Kendo 66 14:03, 21 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendo 66 (talk • contribs)

Kumdo

Kendo in Korea is called Kumdo. The same Chinese characters 剣道 are used for both, they are just pronounced differently. There are some minor variations in the rules and customs, and some unfortunate controversy about the origins. However, the Korea Kumdo Association (KKA) is an affiliate for the International Kendo Federation, and Korean Kumdo teams compete in the World Kendo Championships. So I think it is correct to say that there is one entity, normally called Kendo, but also called Kumdo. If anyone disagrees could they please argue the matter here before they change the Kendo page?

If you would prefer an external source, please see: http://scottshaw.com/kumdo.html.

Francis Bond (talk) 10:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The Korea Kumdo Association (KKA) was permitted to become an affiliate for the International Kendo Federation(FIK), by pledging that it conforms the rule of Kendo instead of Kumdo. KKA applied to IKF because it is crucial to become an affiliate in order to register the dan grade. Anyway Kumdo is different from Kendo. Kumdo athlete play Kendo with Kendo athlete, and Kumdo with Kumdo athlete. Again I ask you, if the difference is the only pronunciation, why does the article "Kumdo" exist in en:Wiki? It should be written in Kendo around the world. ― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:47, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

So basically, you agree that people who practice Kumdo are given dan grades in Kendo that are recognized by the FIK. They don't get separate grades in Kumdo. In that case, I think it is correct to say that what they are doing is Kendo, i.e, Kendo is also known as Kumdo. As for the Kumdo page, I think it is inaccurate in many ways, but don't speak Korean well enough to confirm this with original sources, so am not qualified to edit it. I don't want to get into an edit war, but could I get you to give a bit more evidence for why you think that Kumdo should not be thought of as an alternative name for Kendo? Francis Bond (talk) 14:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand your conclusion, as Kumdo athletes play Kendo "i.e, Kendo is also known as Kumdo". As I said above Kumdo athlete can play both Kumdo and Kendo; different sports. Kumdo athletes play "Kendo" NOT "Kumdo" when they compete with Kendo athletes in the World Kendo Championships, and they play "Kumdo" NOT "Kendo" when they compete with Kumdo athletes in the Kumdo Championships. Please read Kumdo carefully, it clearly says "The term is often mistaken for a Korean kendo". If a description "Kumdo is also known as Kendo" were added in the article Kumdo, I will willingly accept your opinion. ― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:59, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The similar discussion is in progress at Kumdo. Advocates of Kumdo seem to be a position "Kumdo is not Kendo". See [2]. ― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Please discuss this issue after getting the consensus as "Kumdo is Kendo" at Kumdo and the article Kumdo getting merged to Kendo around the world. ― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

In Korea, just like in Japan and other places, there are kendo/kumdo organisations that are not affiliated with the FIK, AJKF and other "mainstream" kendo org's. Some of the people in those groups have a view of their kendo, which differs from the mainstream view. I think it a possibility that people in those groups maybe responsible for some of the confusing, if not contradictory, edits. But also consider that they have their perspective of what they do and their tradition.Kendo 66 01:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kendo 66 (talk • contribs)

The origin of kumdo and the similarity between kumdo and kendo are also still under debate in the discussion page of Kumdo.
Contents related to Korea and Japan, on English Wikipedia, are different from the corresponding ones on Japanese Wikipedia (I do not have a Korean translator). For example, see Sea of Japan, Sea of Japan naming dispute, and Japan–Korea disputes. On English Wikipedia, you might want to see the discussion pages. There are a lot of political and cultural discussions between Korea and Japan, which have been proposed mostly by Korean people suddenly in the past a few tens of years. I guess your discussion here is also one of these issues.--82.83.243.103 (talk) 09:35, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

At kumdo, we have concluded that kumdo is kendo. See the discussion at kumdo, especially section "Origin of kumdo". --PhD XXXXXXX (talk) 18:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Only in the recent aspects, you should say - your statement contains enough fallacy that a conclusion clearly cannot be made. Nanominori (talk) 00:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I am living in Korea right now and doing Kumdo/Kendo here almost every evening. If you are doing the international style Kendo here then it is the Japanese style, if you are doing "Haedong" Kumdo then it is a Korean primarily kata based sword art, which I think was created only in the past half century or so based on old books and on imagination. Based on the number of clubs in the city phone book, I'd wager that Haedong is more popular than international Kumdo. The Korean international Kumdo that I am doing is identical to the Japanese Kendo I do in Canada except that they call out their strikes in Korean, and they are named after the body parts, not the pieces of armour you hit, and the other difference is that they have one Korean sword kata, performed solo, that you have to learn for your Shodan grade which is supposed to be the oldest sword kata in Korea, which was preserved in an 18th Century military drill manual. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kozushi (talk • contribs) 13:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Tsuba Zeriai

What is "Tsuba Zeriai"? Its mentioned in the article but never fully explained. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 01:11, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

I added a reference from google book.[3] This site is also useful. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

dashes in the middle of kanji/kana words

What's with all the dashes in the kanji and kana words, for example "切-返し きり-かえし"? Yes, when we write some Japanese terms in romaji, we add dashes, but they shouldn't be included in the actual Japanese word. If there are no objections in about a week, I'll correct this. Quillaja (talk) 11:41, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

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