Talk:Jota (Spanish footballer)

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Requested move 16 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to disambiguation page, consensus was achieved on supporting a disambiguation of “Jota (footballer)”(non-admin closure) Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 07:29, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jota (footballer) → Jota (footballer, born 1991) – There are three footballers named Jota. One of the others, Jota (footballer, born 1991), is arguably more well known, but it would make sense for this page to redirect to Jota in any case. 147.147.42.39 (talk) 14:43, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

70% support - I'd think the year of birth is required to distinguish between the Jota playing for Wolves and the one from Benfica. Iggy (Swan) 15:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Wouldn't disagree with the basic premise that a dab page is needed, either here or a section of Jota.

As to naming: Not sure why the Wolves one was ever moved from Diogo Jota, which is the common name in the English media, it's what he calls himself on his Twitter, and appears to be the common name in the Portuguese media as well, per Google site searches for jota wolves: Mais Futebol, Record, O Jogo. Returning that page whence it came would solve that part of the problem.

The Benfica Jota is currently at João Filipe (Portuguese footballer): I don't know enough about the player to give an opinion on whether that's the correct location or not. Either way, we should consider the fact that this Jota is Spanish and the Wolves and Benfica ones are not, so Jota (Spanish footballer) would disambiguate between this and the others without having to go to birth years. See the relevant naming convention. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 18:09, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree re the Wolves Jota, so I've moved the article back to Diogo Jota. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:39, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On the Wolves Jota, I'm not certain as to why the user QuiteACharacter says that "Diogo Jota" would be a nickname compound, I'd think the commentators say the name on football matches. Iggy (Swan) 19:13, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Even if João Filipe (Portuguese footballer) isn't moved to Jota (footballer, born 1999) or similar it looks like both have "short" common names of just their first name, even if the other stays as is its still a PDAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:01, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 10:50, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Giant Snowman 10:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose moving to birth year disambiguation, though I would Support moving to Jota (Spanish footballer). Per my comments above: more conclusive disambiguator, per WP:NCSP#Association football (soccer). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:09, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I found two more footballing Jotas - Jota (footballer, born 1993) and Jota Agostinho. 147.147.42.39 (talk) 21:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but perhaps move to Jota Peleteiro (rather than disambiguate) as that is the name he uses on Twitter among other things and it seems he is often referred to by that name in the media. 147.147.42.39 (talk) 21:48, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 25 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus. See no general agreement below to change the disambiguating qualifier. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to garner consensus to rename this article. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 11:23, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It was proposed in this section that Jota (Spanish footballer) be renamed and moved to Jota (footballer, born 1991).

The discussion has been closed.

Links: current log • target log

Jota (Spanish footballer) → Jota (footballer, born 1991) – The page for “Jota (footballer)” was disambiguated per a concensus reached in the previous move discussion. However, this move is being proposed because it is unclear how this page should be named as an effect of creating that disambiguation page Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 08:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC). --Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 15:51, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support for consistency. --SuperJew (talk) 17:37, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment in the previous RM, I made that only three known Jotas, one being Diogo Jota and the other two which are linked to the page, one of them being this one. During the previous discussion, a couple more Jotas were recently discovered by an IP user. The main difference between this one and others is this one is a Spanish footballer with no clues to if he has Portuguese descent or not. Some may say the move is good for consistency as the above comment suggests. Iggy (Swan) 21:25, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Giant Snowman 08:57, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support per rationale at last RM, and for consistency given the others (regardless of nationality, which is fluid in football) are all disambiguated by year of birth... Giant Snowman 08:58, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per me at last RM. Nationality is clearer disambiguator than birth year, as this Jota is the only Spaniard, all the others being Portuguese. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:09, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Struway2: The relevant naming convention you quoted in the last RM says:

If there are multiple footballers with the same name, use the most conclusive of the following steps:

a. If the footballers were born in different years, use the year they were born.

b. If the footballers have different nationalities, use their nationality in the disambiguation.

As the year appears first in this convention, and the year in this case is conclusively different, I would say that according to this convention too, it should be moved to disambiguation by year. My understanding of this convention is to use nationality only if the year is not conclusively different (for example if you have 2 players with the same name who were born in the same year but have different nationalities). --SuperJew (talk) 10:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think the order of presentation does carry any implication of the first-listed taking precedence. We need birth year to distinguish between the Portuguese players, but not to distinguish between a Spanish player and several Portuguese.

I'd guess the reader is more likely to know that the Jota they're looking for is Spanish or Portuguese than that he was born in 1991 rather than 1993. If they navigate via the disambiguation page, it doesn't matter what this page is called so long as there's an adequate description, but via the dropdown search, (Spanish footballer) stands out. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 10:52, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the 2018–19 Premier League season, there are two Danny Wards, one who plays for Leicester and the other one for Cardiff. On Wikipedia, since these two were born either side of the Anglo-Welsh border and there are no other footballers with that name, the titles of these two pages uses the nationality footballer disambiguation. As with this Birmingham Jota, there are no other Spanish ones, only Portuguese footballers and a South Korean actor. So I'd think it's fine to leave it as it is until another Spanish Jota appears on Wikipedia. Iggy (Swan) 21:43, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support a move to Jota Peleteiro since that is his name. It is also the name very often used in news media, and the name he uses himself on social media. Disambiguation by nationality or birth year does nothing to help readers find articles when there are better alternatives. 147.147.42.39 (talk) 16:34, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closer seeing as I can't work out anywhere more sensible to post: I'm opposing a move to birth year disambiguation for reasons outlined above, but would not oppose a move to Jota Peleteiro if the closer sees consensus for leaving the current title. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:55, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Jota or Jota Peletero

I am starting to notice that the Spanish media calls this player "Jota Peletero" even though in England the sources refer to him as "Jota". The External links (two of them) call him with those two names plus on his social media as well (Instagram and Twitter). I should think that, as the English media refer to him as "Jota", that the title of this article should stay as it is despite sources in the recently created Alaves section name him with both names. An editor who participated on this requested move says "it is not even in the title" which has bought me into asking this question. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:32, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]