Talk:Jack Thompson (activist)/Archive 14

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Citation 84

This url is invalid, apparently the Miami herald changed their urls, can someone find the article again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.176.237 (talk) 05:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

July 9th Ruling

The ruling just came down, he's toast, excuse me, disbarred permanently subject to appeal. So the intro needs to be updated to reflect that, and the mention of it farther down in the article needs to have an accurate date (I think it said tomorrow, 10-Jul-08). Bnichols (talk) 02:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Should we now change his description from (attorney) to (former attorney)? I'm being serious here - he can't accurately be considered an attorney if he can no longer legally practice law. Arramol (talk) 01:33, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna be honest - I agree completely. Mahare (talk) 20:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Thirding.--Alph Tech STUART (talk) 02:25, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Definitely. Hobo100 (talk) 14:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Please try to keep this in one place. There is complete discussion, comments, and votes near the bottom atTalk:Jack_Thompson_(attorney)#RfC:_name_change. IMHO (talk) 22:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

June 4th 2008 Hearings

Are we not gonna add anything about the disbarment hearings today? Morte42 (talk) 22:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Illinois

Didn't Thompson try to start a new case with the Illinois shooting back in February? I know games had nothing to do with it but we are talking about Thompson... whatever came of that? Hollywoodd 00:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

No criticism?

Hey guys, i was just wondering why no one has bothered to put a criticism page in the article. Looking through the article i've found that it almost supports Jack, and it seems like a criticism section would balance things out. Well, i just thought i'd ask.Ninjaspwnpirates (talk) 03:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Really? I got the opposite impression. A large portion of the article covers criticisms of Jack by the Florida Bar, the video game industry, and other people in the media. All in all I think it's a good, non-biased record of the public actions of a thoroughly dislikable man. 205.175.225.22 (talk) 21:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd rather ask the opposite. Is there really nothing positive or uncontroversial to say about the man? Can this much undistilled controversy be humanly possible? Who knmows? - Redmess (talk) 23:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I have heard naught but ill of the man. If you have well sourced positive or neutral information about him, feel free to add it. I think the article represents accurately the information known in society about him. Wikipedia is intended to be accurate, not "balanced." Negative information doesn't need to be countered with positive, we should simply report the facts as they're known. 96.21.86.184 (talk) 01:49, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Post-disbarment re-titling of page

IMHO, if he does end up getting disbarred, the title of this page should be changed to Jack Thompson (former attorney). Just my $.02.

-Thirdgen (talk) 06:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. lightsup55 ( T | C ) 07:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. The purpose of that part of the article title is disambiguation; unless there were to exist two different "Jack Thompson" articles, one about an attorney and one about a former attorney, there would be no need to use the more specific "former attorney" instead of the more general "attorney". --cesarb 21:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

"former attorney" is even more specific, and more appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.240.73 (talk) 04:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Arguably being disbarred does not make you a former attorney; it takes away your license to practice law, usually in a particular location. So, I'd say we would not change the title of the page. He will always be an attorney, having graduated form law school - he just may be prevented from practicing. It won't stop him from going on tv to pontificate, however. Tvoz |talk 05:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

If we use the Merriam-Webster definition it would be difficult to continue to call him an Attorney: "a practitioner in a court of law who is legally qualified to prosecute and defend actions in such court on the retainer of clients". I'm not a US lawyer so there may be a technical definition somewhere that I don't know about. 60.242.124.184 (talk) 14:04, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Why not change it to "disbarred attorney" that would be accurate and correct, satisfying everyone's concerns. - 121.44.13.91 (talk) 02:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

If we do add any adjective, would that mean we would change titles for Nixon to crooked president? This would open the flood gates and make the topics less objective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slapshot24 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course, we don't have a disambiguation for Nixon, but I assume you only meant that as an example. I think it's a poor example, though, as I don't think there would be need for any president to be disambiguated, so I'm not sure if we would use "(former president)" after leaving office.

I do think the disambiguation needs to be accurate, and if Thompson cannot be called an attorney (which I'm not sure is the case), then we shouldn't call him one in the title. I would recommend "(activist)," which remains an accurate description and does not dwell on a former status. --Maxamegalon2000 16:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I suppose the difference from president is that office is presumed (in the US at least) to be for a limited time, not permanent. I agree, however, that in the event of disbarment the best disambiguation would be the indisputable "activist" rather than trying to explicate his status as a legal practitioner. --Michael Snow (talk) 17:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Just to push it to the point of ad nauseum, at least with respect to titles and salutations, presidents, present, past, living and deceased are commonly referred to by the title President. For example, I could address former President Bill Clinton as "Mr. President" or "President Clinton," but to address him as "Mr. Clinton" would connote either ignorance or disrespect. This is a bad analogy. Perhaps a better one is that of a military officer who has been stripped of rank or demoted; it would not be accurate or proper to address them by their former rank. Similarly, if Thompson is disbarred, it would not be proper to refer to him as "Jack Thompson, Attorney at Law" nor to title the page "Jack Thompson (attorney)." At the same time, "former attorney" is both flirting with violating NPOV and a negative descriptor, so I agree that "activist" is a good way to go.Emoticon (talk) 03:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree and vote for "activist" as well. Argel1200 (talk) 23:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your reasoning, but part of me would still rather see "disbarred attorney" used. Perhaps I'm just vindictive. :p --coldacid (Talk|Contrib) 03:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

He is a "former attorney" now. An attorney is not someone who went to law school, but someone who is "licensed to practice law." Some states (ie CA) specifically allow people with no law degree, but who have passed the bar, to practice law. Those people are legally attorneys and should be referred to as such. Mr. Thompson is no longer allowed to practice law and is therefore no longer an attorney. For that reason the title should be changed as it no longer correctly describes the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.32.168.50 (talk) 21:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

He's still an attorney, he just is no longer licensed to practice in the state of Florida. I think a name change is unnecessary. -Chunky Rice (talk) 20:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a valid point, too. He'll still be a lawyer, just not in Florida. Under the circumstances, I think I'll remove the name-change template. HalfShadow 20:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, he's not licensed to practice anywhere right now. So he's not a practicing attorney anywhere. But I still don't think that means we change the title. We don't change article names when people retire or die, why would we change them when they cease actively practicing a career for any other reason? -Chunky Rice (talk) 20:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Barring some kind of a new career that really takes him to another level, he's thought of as an attorney; that's where he made the bulk of his career and what most of his exploits were pretty much based on. Getting disbarred is just another detail in the legend, so to speak... -- Captain Disdain (talk) 21:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

His disbarment doesn't change his profession. EVula // talk // ☯ // 21:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

What about dropping attorney entirely, since it is now controversial, and instead use Author? He is also an author, and will likely continue as an author. 66.183.159.174 (talk) 20:11, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, to an extent, it does. Attorney is short for attorney at law. If he's no longer licensed to practice law, he's no longer an attorney at law.⇒SWATJester ^{Son of the Defender} 23:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's a damn good point.... ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 16:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

His disbarment from a single state doesn't change his profession. Even if he couldn't practice anywhere, he'd just be a non-practicing attorney. (I really don't feel like getting into a semantic debate; suffice it to say, significant changes would have to happen before a rename of this article would be warranted) EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:05, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be rather to difficult to practice as an attorney in any capacity when the state has barred you from submitting any form of filings to them whatsoever, sans that submitted by a liaison, which for a man in his position, might be rather difficult to come by...? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 17:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

An attorney is someone licensed to practice law. As of the 25th, Thompson is no long licensed law in any state or country. Therefore he is not an attorney. Unlike someone who has retired, Thompson does not retain the title because the title was stripped from him. The title of the page now is incorrect and should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkman777 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, this page needs to be retitled owing to the events referenced. The date has passed, and he is now listed on the Florida Bar's site as disbarred. Unfortunately, the page is still semi-protected, and I can't retitle. Will someone please change the title to 'Activist' or 'Former Attorney'?KaintukeeBob (talk) 13:46, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

That's okay as I don't think there is really a consensus as to what the new title should be. And retitling the article is no small thing as links will have to be changed or at least redirects made. I did offer an alternative that has in fact been used in the case of another disbarred attorney at the bottom of the talk page. IMHO (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Issues with Halo 3 and submission of Homosexual porn

Does any one think Jack's filing of Gay porn in court[1] or Jacks comments on Halo 3 in church are significant for the article? --Cs california 09:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Page Archived 10/24/06

Issues:

1. Disconnect between editors on whether REPUTABLE gaming sources such as GameSpot and the like qualify under WP:RS. Currently they are not allowed, even if Thompson himself confirms it in those articles. Try to get a consensus on this.

2.Constant target for anonymous vandals, slow, long term. maybe a candidate for Semi-Protection?

3.Minor visual editing to make the page read better (paragraphs, etcetera)

I believe the page needs protection, from both vandals and from a few particular (legitimate) users who are a little overzealous in cutting information out. --PeanutCheeseBar 19:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with FULL protection, I do think Semi-Protection is a way to go. Perhaps we can file a WP:RfC and get a consensus on the WP:RS issue. I do understand where the other side is coming from, after all, this page has gone through WP:OFFICE once, and to avoid liability to a point. However, I do believe that the fact that Thompson himself confirms that it's real via email discussion (copied out to several other media sources) qualifies it. SirFozzie 19:44, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I should have clarified; I meant semi-protection, not full. Also, in terms of the past liability of Wikipedia, Thompson has threatened action towards Wikipedia because of information posted by the users, cited by outside linked sources. Though Thompson threatened Wikipedia, he did not threaten the sites that Wikipedia linked to, which were the basis for the information posted by the users. --PeanutCheeseBar 20:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I have made a request at WP:RFPP to Semi-protect the page. SirFozzie 20:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Page Semi Protected

Thanks to NishiKid64 for semi-protecting the page, which means we'll see a lot less vandalism on the page. Hopefully we can make the article look better while it's under protection. SirFozzie 05:04, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Someone should unlock the page. The asshole deserves to have shit spread about him at his own expense. You cannot protect his reputation from us. Gonzo all the way, baby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.255.67.229 (talk • contribs) 07:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The page is only protected against anonymous edits. If you want to make changes, you can create an account. Also, if you even took the time to read the article, you would have noticed that your type of vandalism is fully redundant to other content in the article. --Sigma 7 21:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.. WP is WP:NOT a place for folks who want to go gonzo on folks. Despite my feelings about Jack Thompson (probably shared by a good majority of the folks who have worked with or read about Jack), Wikipedia's guiding point is WP:NPOV. We don't need to make a case about the guy. The guy's own words and actions do it for us. All we have to do is report it, in a NEUTRAL POINT OF VIEW fashion. Not our fault he does what he does. SirFozzie 22:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Though...true objectivity is never possible, especially with a douchebag like him. You either agree with what he's doing, or disagree, and however you view it, it's not possible to NOT spin the facts (at least a little.) At least the (extreme) majority of the country agrees he's a worthless asshat, and hopefully he'll go away soon. In the meantime, we'll TRY to keep the facts separate from our own prejudices, and just be proud to live in a country that even lets closet-homosexuals like him thrive!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Beckerist (talk • contribs)

Good point. He is a very polarizing figure.--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 03:31, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

no real cristism of jack here

after skiming over the artical I dont see much saying how crazy this guy is. he attacks without solid facts (see what he is saying about v-tech massacure) Is the lack of critism because he will sue wikipedia if any is intruduced. this artical almost supports jack , and its posibly to constructivly say public opion of him.

What you speak is an opinion of the man, and while I'm sorry if I may sound rude in my response, I think it would be best to point out that Wikipedia is a site meant for facts. Not opinions, however popular they may be. Although, I guess that kind of stuff is more than plentiful here in the discussion page! =D 75.46.246.253 17:37, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, anyone with any previous knowledge of him doesn't need to hear any criticism. And anyone who talks about him anywhere online but here will hear all they need to about him, along with some words they might not have known before. JDub90 01:00, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Accusing Jack Thompson of being insane and reporting that he has been accused of being insane[2] are separate things. Someone should make note of the latter, perhaps. --Chr.K. 09:22, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I know Wikipedia is a site meant for facts, but the fact that isn't mentioned in this article is how the large majority of the public (especially the gaming public) complete despises him, and does everything they can to either make amends to him or undermine him. Another fact not mentioned very well is his obvious predjudicial attitude toward gamers. Within every quote he has said, it merely shows his repeated opinion of predjudice. I don't see any reason to not include them as facts, because in some other wiki pages it states the majority's opinion as a fact of it existing. Deathshroud 09:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Deathshroud

If you can find sources that say those things better than the section on "Relationship with industry and gamers" already does, feel free to add them. --Maxamegalon2000 17:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

It should also be stated of Jacks aproval rating.

Jack Thompson is a douche bag - Opinion

Jack Thompson is widely regarded as being a douche bag. - Fact --74.134.192.58 (talk) 09:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Very true! But you need to cite your sources and avoid the use of weasel words in describing the matter of many others regarding him as a douche bag. And you need to find a substantial number of sources using the term "douche bag."

Whatever.

71.164.234.236 (talk) 07:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Show, not tell. Instead of telling people he is insane, you can show it by showing what kind of things he says and does. Readers will be perfectly able to conclude if he's insane or not themselves. - Redmess (talk) 00:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Mario Question Blocks

http://www.bladediary.com/questionblocks/index.html Gosh if that doesn't just reveal a whole other side to his character! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.160.86.224 (talk) 13:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Jack's background: Been in jail

At the end of the following article: http://www.destructoid.com/jack-part-deux-post-hearing-update

It is stated in a conversation between dtoid.com's Niero and Jack Thompson about how he felt in the courtroom, the following: Niero: “So what was going through your head when those four officers were summoned into the courtroom for you?” Jack: “I thought about when I was in college … I’ve been to jail before briefly …”

Over a parking infraction on campus. Hardly worth a mention... Jabrwock 14:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

• Just a way to show he's not fully contempted. Possible WP:NPOV, though, but who cares?142.58.101.27 20:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hidden courtroom video

This video was posted on the main article, removed, re-added by myself, then removed again; though some might argue that it is biased simply because of the person recording the video (or even the site that the video is linked from), it provides a look at Jack Thompson when he believes that the general public cannot see him, and thus it cannot really be spun by any media organization unless it is edited. --PeanutCheeseBar 17:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the video is useful. There are so many totally outrageous statements by Thompson in the article it becomes hard to believe that they are not being taken out of context or edited to make him look bad. The video is documentary proof of his bizarre behavior. If there is a better/ more NPOV way to present the video, that would be cool. I'd also like to hear the arguments against posting it. I'll refrain from adding it as long as the talk page is active and there is no consensus.Vegasjon 18:50, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I think the gaming site thing dq's it again to others. I would support it, but let's see... SirFozzie 20:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I find that the fact it came from a gaming site is irrelevant, especially since the video was made by someone who would have a bias against Thompson. However, one can hardly argue that the video itself is biased when it is a direct recording of Thompson's own actions and words; the viewers can see for themselves what Thompson says and does, and it's fairly difficult to twist any of that around, short of editing the video. I agree with Vegasjon that something like this is useful in that it shows Thompson's statements aren't taken out of context, and it would be a great counter-balance to the lack of negative press that Thompson receives from the mainstream media. --PeanutCheeseBar 21:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't view the video right now, but perhaps trim the non-NPOV parts off/host it somewhere NPOV/etc? If it's him saying stuff, then it's very useful, but if people are worried about NPOV, then just remove the non-NPOV stuff. -Ryanbomber 16:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Ack! NO! Wikipedia editors editing external sources to bring them into conformance with our own views of NPOV? Terrible idea. External sources are allowed to be POV. Further, any Wikipedia editor editing external sources on these grounds raises serious questions about editorial integrity and independence. Bad idea all around. Either we include it as a source/external link/etc. or we don't. --ElKevbo 16:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, okay, that wasn't thought out to well. The wording makes me sound like I want to butcher the thing. I'm just saying that if the intro is ultra-biased, we cut it out (and source the original, obviously.) It would probabally be more graceful if, instead of tinkering with the video, we just quote him from it. I think it would be best to just quote the video in it's entirety, but I guess people like being ultra-draconic about NPOV, so we can't have nice things like that. Go wiki. -Ryanbomber 17:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why someone would modify their website or its content to be more Wiki-friendly; Wikipedia isn't the best role model, considering all the double-standards that it embraces. That aside, it doesn't matter where the video is sourced from, since most websites are POV in some way; given this, I don't see where it should be an issue to post this video. I'm certainly not seeing any reasonable "against" argument. --PeanutCheeseBar 01:43, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I finally got around to watching the video, and I think we shouldn't "really" link it, mostly because the audio is such terrible quality. It'd be easier to just quote from it and cite it - I don't think we should showcase the thing. -Ryanbomber 11:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

How? People will want to know the source of the video to verify the quotes, even if the quality of it is terrible. --PeanutCheeseBar 17:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Above is proof I shouldn't edit the wiki when I'm half asleep. I think I meant to say "don't give it an entire section to itself, but quote it and cite the quotes using the link." Maybe it'll work better on wikiquote. -Ryanbomber 01:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Over a month has passed since this was originally posted, an I haven't seen much objection or grounds for not posting the video. If I don't see any reasonable objections in the next few days, I'll repost the video. PeanutCheeseBar 17:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't really think it's appropriate to include as an External link. I don't think we should link to the video merely because it exists. If its notability were established then that would be different. Even in that case I would encourage you to use the video or discussion of it as a reference and not as an External link. --ElKevbo 17:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

How is not appropriate and not notable? Allegations of bias for or against the man concerning this article are thrown around frequently, and short of this video, there really is no other "live" proof that he is as off-the-wall as people have described him. It's certainly notable due to the fact that there is no other footage like this around, and also due to the fact that he is not aware he is being filmed, so he isn't acting unnaturally or hamming it up for the camera. I'm sorry, but failure to include this would not only be a blow to the article itself, but to Wikipedia's credibility. PeanutCheeseBar 17:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as how I haven't really seen any decent reasoning as for the video not to be reposted in the few months since I opened this topic, I am going to repost it. --PeanutCheeseBar 13:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

That's borderline argumentum ad nauseam. I still think it shouldn't be posted if for no other reason then terrible quality. -Ryanbomber 17:05, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

If nothing else, someone could cut out the intro to the video (as it serves no constructive purpose), but the rest, though not of the greatest quality, is still understandable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PeanutCheeseBar (talk • contribs) 17:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC).

Didn't we already have the discussion (back when I was a wee little wikipedian who didn't know any better) to clip it, with the result being "don't do it?" Also, you may be able to understand it, but I sure can't. -Ryanbomber 15:50, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup - only a few months ago, in fact (scroll up a few lines). I'll restate my position: it would be entirely inappropriate for Wikipedia, or editors acting on behalf of Wikipedia, to edit a source. I think it's very dangerous territory for us to wander blithely into and we need to leave that to other researcher, reporters, and journalists. I would have less of a problem with an explicit statement in the text next to the external link stating something like "The material of interest begins at 1:40." --ElKevbo 17:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that it is likely better to add a statement rather than edit the video for the sake of maintaining the integrity of the article; it just seems that it might leave a door open for some people to complain that the video is "unprofessional" enough or otherwise to justify exclusion. --PeanutCheeseBar 20:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, You just have to admit, it IS a video clip, and shouldn't be treated differently, just because of threats Jack has brought against wikipedia. The video should be permitted, but adding disparaging remarks beside it is against the ToS, isn't it? Just add the video, leave things as they lie, and forget about treating him differently than others. This is still just an article on him, not an article on the image he wishes to present to the public. --Joeskipsey 14:55, 11 April 2007

Protection!

Add this article back to the protected articles. The first edit after it was unprotected was vandalism!--Viridis 01:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

We don't want to permanently protect pages. Vandalism happens, and as long as we can handle it it's not really a problem. In the two days since it was unprotected, the article was vandalised three times (two times by one user). That's hardly an unstoppable flow of vandalism and no reason to protect the article again. JACOPLANE • 2007-01-4 03:49

Indeed, everyone would be better served by addressing the vandals themselves rather than protecting this article; not only do we protect literally every other article from being vandalized by the same people, but it also allows for good-faithed newbies to still contribute to this article. EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this is nothing. I've seen it much worse. --Maxamegalon2000 06:24, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Special thanks for reprotecting the page; it needed it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PeanutCheeseBar (talk • contribs) 17:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Gee, I wonder why... - Doug 01:19 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but I'm thinking this is one of those pages that will perpetually need to be semi-protected; every time someone decides to unprotect this page, the flow of vandalism far outstrips any constructive content that someone might post. --PeanutCheeseBar 15:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I hardly think five incidents of vandalism in almost two days is grounds for permanent semi-protection. --Maxamegalon2000 15:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

More like seven, and growing as more and more people realize the article is not semi-protected anymore. --PeanutCheeseBar 20:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It appears that Nishkid64 also felt the page needed semi-protection; kudos to him for making it happen. --PeanutCheeseBar 01:27, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I requested it :) SirFozzie 02:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I did too, only from the person who unprotected it in the first place. Doesn't matter now... --PeanutCheeseBar 13:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

People vandalize it because he is a jerk. I don't see why they can't.-User:Solomn Edifice

Totally agree Solomn, it at least should be added after he describes himself as 'Conservative Christian and a Republican' that ' while the rest of the moderate world thinks he is a knob' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddieebo (talk • contribs)

Just, no. I don't like the guy, but that doesn't mean you can vandalize his page (like you did Eddie). Your personal opinions don't go in articles and vandalizing pages will just result in you being blocked from editing Wikipedia. TJ Spyke 12:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Because that's a matter of opinion, and it's not "fact." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.117.73.83 (talk • contribs).

Metal Gear Solid suicide

WHAT I THINK is that some douche keeps deleting it. its been added 3 or 4 times and it keeps coming down. does anyone think somebody associated to him might keep on deleting it? kinda like the whole thing with leland yee? and i dont recall having a good source.

Whatever happened to the time Jack Thompson made fun of the Metal Gear gamer who commited suicide? Why isn't that in the article, I could've sworn it was here at one point with a good source, so what happened to it? 05:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we ever had a good source for it. --Maxamegalon2000 06:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure http://GamePolitics.com has it somewhere--Viridis 09:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure they do, but they're not a reliable source for this article. It really didn't get any attention in mainstream media. --Maxamegalon2000 17:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Neither do half of his other exploits, but better that than nothing at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PeanutCheeseBar (talk • contribs) 17:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

Many would disagree with the idea that introducing unreliable sources into a quality article would improve it. --Maxamegalon2000 17:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

No, YOU would disagree that adding something that depicts him in a negative light would make the article better, when it would actually serve to bring balance and give a realistic look into what kind of tool he really is. --PeanutCheeseBar 17:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I can't find it on GamePolitics OR their old livejournal so the arguement's moot for the moment.--Viridis 22:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Source for the event is here, a quote from Thompson's response is here if it helps. I'm the person who broke the story (I wrote the GamingHorizon article and collaborated with the metalgearsolid.org administrator to bring the mis-reporting of the suicide to light) in the first place so I have to stay out of it on Wikipedia (as per the rules) but I'm pretty interested in the material and think it's one of the best demonstrations of Thompson's character and wish it was still in his article. --Asriel 22:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it demonstrates Thompson's character, and also wish that we could include it in the article. However, gaming sites are not acceptable sources for this article, the most persuasive arguments being that 1) gaming sites may show bias in their coverage, and, in my opinion, the better of the two arguments, 2) compared to the rest of the information in the article, an event not covered by mainstream media is not as notable. I don't mean to trivialize the incident, or question Mr. Dunlap's reporting, but the burden of proving notability rests on the editor who wishes to include the information, and I doubt that the burden can be met in this case. Let's remember that the standard for inclusion at Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. This is a situation that shows what may be perceived as a flaw in that policy: an account of the incident may be required to use the more mainstream, though clearly incorrect, source. --Maxamegalon2000 22:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Verifiability is but one standard that Wikipedia relies on; however, many other Wikipedia articles have links or references to something that is counter to the article content (such as John Kerry and the Swift Boat veterans), and to hold that standard to one article but not another really doesn't do justice to that second article. Furthermore, if you want to argue the point of notability, we can just scale down the whole article, because Thompson rarely appears in the news as it is anyways (undermining his "notability"), and undermining the credibility of the whole article because every time someone posts something that reveals his true nature, it gets taken down. --PeanutCheeseBar 13:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

It should be linked. Why are we only showing the good things? Every other celeb gets the good and bad on their page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sephy26946 (talk • contribs).

Sure, gaming sites are biased. But now look the other way, and find out what the other way is? The only positive sources come from verified, yet also biased opinion sources. There's bias everywhere, and we would likely insert such words like (apparently, possibly, likely, might have, etc.) to push out the semi-verified forms. There has even been proud claims by the man himself that those were his words, and it's a shame that people are trying to protect him from himself. Seriously, if it comes from a source of news, it should be allowed. After all, where do many of the positive pieces on Jack come from? Conservative, middle aged to elderly, catholic and christian americans. His main base of support. In two ways are battles fought, the hearts and minds of the people. If the information from one side is removed due to bias, I sa what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Perhaps we should pull the parts that are sourced to overtly religious or political sources, hm? It's only fair. Because I don't know about you, but by my standards, if someone tells the world that soceity is better off without [insert definable group here], then it's time they looked at that soceity and started asking some pretty serious questions.--Joeskipsey 20:06, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Were there any overtly religious or political sources in particular that you felt were biased? It certainly would be reasonable to discuss them. --Maxamegalon2000 20:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

An (extremely) quick glance at the sources cited gives the first source, Christian Science Monitor. While they may or may not be notable or reliable (I didn't even read it), they would most certainly have bias regarding a christian activist attorney. How is that any different?--Shadowdrak 13:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

The article in question was co-written by Thompson, and is used as a source for his religious and political self-identification, and to describe his relationship with Eugene Provenzo. --Maxamegalon2000 17:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I only read the publication source of that one. But my point is still valid. I understand it is written by him, and the citation is not in dispute, but try and tell me it isn't a biased source. My point is biased sources are all over wikipedia, and it is not a problem as long as it is put in context. You seem to be intent on excluding pretty reasonable information just because most news in the gaming community either gets covered badly or not at all by the mainstream media. A lot of gaming websites are run by industry insiders, but there is not really an established concept of gaming academia. To top it off much mainstream press coverage of gaming and technology in general shows fundamental misunderstanding. So what qualifies as a reliable source?--Shadowdrak 18:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Florida Bar VS Bruce

Jack Thompson is being hauled in front of the supreme court of Florida for 5 official complaints regstered against him by various judges in recent cases. It's up on Game politics and a few other game related sites, perhaps a sub-section should be added to "the Florida Bar" section explaining what's going on? - 59.167.42.27 00:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, now we're back on the issue of if Gamepolitics is a usable source.--Viridis 02:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Yay, its true. Sites listed on Google news report this is happening. Various complaints have been leveled at him. Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end Wacko Jacko - Doug, 8 February 2007, (UTC)

"Thompson claims that the complaints violate state religious protections because his advocacy is motivated by his Christian faith." So were the Crusades, the inquisition, the oppression of free thought and expression of the Catholic church in the medieval era, and the oppression of left-handed people. On a side note, how is it right that he is allowed to harass his opponents and violate there rights and liberties because of his "faith" (cough cough). - Doug, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Anybody can make that claim based on their faith; however, Jack has a special gift for turning anything anyone says or does into an attack on his religion. --PeanutCheeseBar 13:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

But doesn't Christianity teach that one should turn the other cheek when attacked? *Dan T.* 15:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I said he was good at turning it into an attack on his faith; nowhere did I say that he's good at practicing his faith. --PeanutCheeseBar 16:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I know this is a bit late for the discussion, but i was just reading through the talk page, and Viridis, to be fair to anon, he did say "and a few other game related sites", not citing GP as his only source. Has anyone heard anything new about the whole Disbarrment proceedings against him recently? The section should probably be updated if it has. - Count23 00:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

While reading Gamepolitics regularly I haven't heard anything new about it.--Viridis 06:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

There is some interesting information up about his court case if you look at the Florida Supreme Court's site. http://jweb.flcourts.org/pls/docket/ds_docket?p_caseyear=2007&p_casenumber=80&psCourt=FSC&psSearchType= One thing of particular interest was an order filed on 4/12/07 which states "The petition for writ of mandamus, "Additional Relief Sought by Petition for Writ of Mandamus," "Additional Grounds for Granting this Petition for Writ of Mandamus," "Motion for In Camera Inspection of Two Bar Documents," "Additional Support for Petition for Writ of Mandamus," and "Additional Grounds for Granting Petition for Writ of Mandamus and/or Request that Filing Fee Be Returned to Plaintiff," raise issues that should be determined by the referee and are hereby dismissed without prejudice to seek appropriate relief before the referee. See R. Regulating Fla. Bar 3-7.6(h)(2), (h)(4), (h)(8), (m)(1). By order dated February 14, 2007, respondent was specifically advised that all future pleadings should be filed with the referee until the referee's report has been filed with this Court. Respondent is reminded to comply with the orders of this Court. Additionally, the Court notes that respondent has attached inappropriate and pornographic materials to his petitions that are irrelevant to his arguments. Respondent is warned that should he continue to submit such inappropriate filings, the Court will consider imposing sanctions which may include, but are not limited to, a limitation on Respondent's ability to submit further filings without the signature of an attorney other than himself." Perhaps some of this information should be added to the Florida Bar section?

Flowers For Jack article

I know that this is technically not the right place for this, however, people keep reverting the Flowers For Jack article (linked to in this article) without dealing with the issues on the discussion page. I feel I have given good reasons for removing the sections. If you can find more reliable sources for that information, then let's source them. If not, then the Pixelante Nation gossip & rumor content should not be in the article at all, no matter how much you believe it to be true. Please discuss before reverting the page. Thank you for your time. --Anonymous 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture?

Why is there not a picture of Mr. Thompson in this article? One Elephant went out to play... 17:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe there is an issue in finding a recent photograph of him that is not copyrighted by the AP or by any other media outlet... --PeanutCheeseBar 20:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

What about the cover of the book he made a while back. Wasn't he on that?--Viridis 16:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe that would be copywrited by him. Someone might want to get written concent for Wiki to use one of their stock photos of Thompson for wiki, potentialy some news outlet might be willing. -Starke (May 2nd, 2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.249.145 (talk) 21:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Challenge

It has come to my attention that Mr Thompson has a challange on his hands heres the link http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20051012

I believe that was made jokingly, a satirical riff on Jack's Modest Proposal. I don't think anyone actually made that game (though I did see conceptual and half-made games like this in the Ctrl+Alt+Del forums).--Viridis 02:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Further reading: A Modest Video Game Proposal --Kikimaru 16:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Take Two vs. Jack Thompson

I found another quite neutral reference for the recent lawsuit, here, at GamePolitics.com. The page also contains a link to the actual lawsuit. Perhaps these links can be used to flesh out the paragraph, or the newly-spawned article on the lawsuit. I would add this information myself, but I am remarkably awful at contributing major things to actual articles. --Dreaded Walrus 02:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Jack Thompson has responded. This should probably be added into the article (I am awful at major changes, still). The best bit is where he says that God makes videogames. --Dreaded Walrus 15:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget the part where he attributes to God the actual direct authorship of The Bible, essentially laughing in the face of hundreds of years of archeology. Literalists make me laugh. --Sleet01 20:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it common knowledge that prophets wrote the bible? Doesn't John 3:16 mean John wrote that book of the Bible?--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 21:06, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, more information will be added to the article if a valid source picks up the information. --Maxamegalon2000 17:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

As well as the Kotaku article, it has now been mentioned over at Gamepolitics.com, here. I haven't looked anywhere else, but I imagine there maybe a few other ones later on in the day. Do either of these qualify as 'valid'? --Dreaded Walrus 18:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Generally, you want a "mainstream" newspaper. Websites pertaining to gaming news aren't considered as reliable as normal due to a potential POV bias - and also because of the fact that the former ESA spokesperson was stating that these sites give him too much attention. --Sigma 7 19:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Heck, GamePolitics.com is owned and presented by the Entertainment Consumers Association. That doesn't stop me from reading it every day, but perhaps it should give one pause before using it as a source in an encyclopedia article about one of the most vocal critics of video games. --Maxamegalon2000 19:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

That just doesn't make any sense. Wacky Jack's highjinx might not generate enough interest for the New York Times to pick up, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The idea that Gamepolitics isn't qualified to be a reliable source of news about the politics of the video game industry is highly illogical. - Charagon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.15.36.178 (talk) 10:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

He's filed a counter-suit against Take Two and a copy of the transcript is available on gamepolitics.com and gamespot.com. this lawsuit may be enough to warrant it's own sub-section on JBJTs page now. - Count23 12:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Take Two Interactive v. John B. Thompson Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 22:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Delicious bonus: he's including Penny Arcade in his conspiracy and racketeering charges. It must be exciting to live in a delusional fever dream where everyone is out to get you, and showing you up as a liar is somehow extorting money from you. Magicflyinlemur 20:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Take Two Interactive v. John B. Thompson has just been settled. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Plant

Is it possible that Jack Thompson is some kind of agent provocateur against opponents of homosexuality and the gaming industry? Look at the Fred Phelps article; a section sees some of "the extreme right" as suggesting that he's a "plant aimed at giving he anti-gay movement a bad name." With all the ire and "FUCK OFF AND DIE" he's attracted with his court antics and, outside the courtroom, with his shitheadedness, it's not that hard to imagine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.9.43.92 (talk • contribs). AMEN!!! 71.200.98.184 22:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I doubt it. I think the man is simply verifiably insane, and really thinks he's standing up to the foul, demon-spawned game industry. He also has a tremendous ego and makes barely coherent calls to people who disagree with/upset him. I seriously doubt he's some brilliant ruse; frankly, I don't think he's that clever. Magicflyinlemur 20:00, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, guess so. But if he honestly thinks he's doing the right thing, he'd better start cleaning up his goddamn act. The reason why I drew the Fred Phelps parallel is that he's starting to look like him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.107.142.145 (talk) 05:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The thing of it is that, being insane, the man probably doesn't really understand why he comes off so awful. I kind of get the feeling he doesn't even know where he is most of the time. Magicflyinlemur 01:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Except he's not insane. He's the only lawyer in Florida to be declared legally sane. The only excuse he doesn't have an excuse for is simply being a jackass. JDub90 17:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Personaly I doubt that he's the only laywer in Florida who's been required to undergo psychiatric examination, but, he definatly has a psychological disorder, not one that causes him to be legaly insane or legaly incompent though. Something of a tragidy. The idea that he's a plant is only plausible to a point, but, he's been doing this for a long time. And some of his behavior has been of the varity that one wouldn't want being public, for instance the Janet Reno antagonizim, so, I'd say that idea was pretty much shot there. An agitator wouldn't be pushing the limit in such a way that he risked being disbarred for his behavior. Starke (May 2nd, 2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.227.249.145 (talk) 21:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Wikipedia Submission

I think you Wikipedia boys should include in the information about how you all bent over and took it when Wikipedia was threatened with a law suit by Jack. I mean, it's only wrong to ignore the fact that Wikipedia got spanked when Jack threatened to sue when you weeny's posted wrong information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.57.52.61 (talk • contribs).

That would probably be acceptable, if you could find a valid and reputable source for the information. --Maxamegalon2000 18:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't that down to OFFICE action? If so, that has happened many times in the past, and it is a mere precaution, where an article is frozen, regardless of whether something is correct or incorrect, while the particular issue is dealt with. It has nothing, really, to do with "us weeny's" "posting wrong information". --Dreaded Walrus 18:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Not quite. OFFICE action is not just freezing of the article. It is deletion of the article and a strict order never to reuse the same material that the deleted version contained. Natch, since the article is deleted, no article history would exist to show non-admins what to avoid posting in order to avoid a block; therefore the ultimate effect, intended or not, of OFFICE action is a chilling effect upon WP content. One way or the other, it has the intended effect. I am not aware of any information here which was false even before the OFFICE action (not counting routine (and routinely reverted) vandalism of the genus "Jack Thompson is a doodoohead".

My understanding was that Thompson claimed the information contained in the article was false and defamatory (no doubt if that didn't work he had another letter citing "racketeering" lined up and ready to mail), and I don't recall there being any community consensus, or effort at reaching consensus, that there had actually been any false and defamatory statements (again, beside the routine vandalism that rarely lasts longer than two minutes). This sort of thing is easily covered by WP's general content disclaimer, which references the fact that random, routine vandalism occurs. I'm not aware of there being any Siegenthaler-esque untruths. As far as I know, OFFICE just swung into action when they got the impression that a lawyer with a large media footprint was pissed. Naturally, since there is no history of the version before deletion for me to look at, we have no recourse but to take OFFICE's word that the pre-blanking article deserved it.

In any case, without having a copy of the pre-blanking article as a reference, how could we ever source a reference to it? Was WP's blanking of this page reported in a third party news source? Kasreyn 04:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Your estranged family here at Encyclopedia Dramatica recovered this link: http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/228672.html?mode=reply

while not a "official" 3rd party source, it is still from the head of Gamepolitics at LiveJournal, it's got to count for something. It would also look good on Wikipedia's part for mentioning Jack's threat of a lawsuit, because it looks awfully biased if you don't include it somewhere in the article.

This is obviously a late addition to the conversation, but the pre-blanking article is still included in the history: [3]. --Maxamegalon2000 20:16, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

We should have some sort of section mentioning his threat to sue Wikipedia. It seems awfully biased to not include it. --Nintendorulez talk 19:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I see no mention of Jack Tomptsons issues with The sims2 on here, or is that something that he found offensive and untrue, that had to be removed? I followed the whole thing quite closly at the time, being an avid Sims 2 player. The man made many mistakes about the content included in the game and his logic was circular. For example :He stated about the pixels that cover sim nudity in game "The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed." Before the barbie and ken bodies were proven to him he was sure that there were actually genitals such as penises and labia under the blur. http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=10330 http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Attorney_Jack_Thompson_sets_sights_on_Sims_2 http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=11675 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_sims_2#Controversy 72.150.5.249 00:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

It's in the article. --Maxamegalon2000 00:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Did Jacks site get taken down or something?

When I go to www.stopkill.com I get a search thingy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sephy26946 (talk • contribs) 23:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

Things like that ususally mean the creator stopped paying for the domain.--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 23:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

He took stopkill.com down about 18 months ago and flabar.org down 6 months ago after someone kept hacking his site and putting in a wav file of the "biggest douche in the universe" theme from South Park. - Count23 13:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow! That is so cool! Funny as hell too. :D --Averross (u♠t♠c) 14:48, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I actually laughed out loud, so....lol.--Scouto2 (talk) 14:56, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Virginia Tech School Shooting - April 16th 2007

Only hours after the school shooting at Virginia Tech today (April 16th, 2007), Jack Thompson was live on CNN television literally crying (during the 12:00PM PST news hour). Even though we aren't even sure who the shooter was and the only thing we know is that he might possibly be Asian and in his 20s, Jack Thompson used the situation to promote himself by implying that GTA, Counterstrike, Half Life and (web based?) flash games and the entertainment industry could have contributed somehow in this killing spree. I have not found any online source for this via CNN's website yet, however. Cordell 19:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, the television appearance itself is a source, but it probably would be better to wait until something shows up online. Unless, of course, someone was watching and transcribing it for us. --Maxamegalon2000 19:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Fark.com comments regarding him being on the air put his Fox appearance at about 3:15PM EST, just under 6 hours after the 2nd round of shootings began. Hope that helps in trying to find a transcript or video of his comments. --Billdorr 00:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

He was not on CNN, he was on Fox News. I hate him as much as the next guy, but the small line with him blaming the VT killings on games should be revised. He suggested it, not aggressively pushing it like he always does. This is an encyclopeida, not an anti-Jack site.

Thank you for the correction. I was bouncing between news channels when he appeared. However, his comments correlating this shooting with videogames and entertainment was not a small line. It was the majority of his on-air time. He talked about school shooters playing videogames to train themselves to control their breathing while killing people. He talked about violence as referenced in the Capote movie. He talked about appearing in front of congress to talk about violence in videogames relating to school shootings. He was also appearing on FNC today presenting himself specifically as a school shooting expert, which of course he is not. If this wasn't directly attempting to capitalize on and relate to this latest shooting at a school with videogames and the entertainment industry, then there would have been no point to spending so much of his time talking about it during his segment. Or, for that matter, even having him on since violence in videogames is his entire deal. Hopefully there will be a transcript on FOX's website or the segment will appear on youtube or elsewhere sometime. He did not directly blame this shooting on it, but he certainly exploited this fresh situation by drawing the two together very prematurely and for that, his statements are absolutely notable. Cordell 20:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I want to make something clear. His appearance on Fox News is the source for his comments. We don't need another source, Kotaku, for example, to note his appearance. We can cite the program itself. What we do need, however, is to know what it is he said. This is where information from video gaming sites can become problematic. Did he say that video games were the cause? Did he say they may have been the cause? Did he say they may have contributed? We need to get the details right. At some point a video will probably appear online, and then we can know with certainty. A video isn't necessary, per se, if enough people here saw the interview and agree as to what was said. We can then cite the show itself. Of course, I imagine this will be a non-issue, and a video will arrive pretty soon. If that does not occur, eventually I will be able to find a transcript through my university access. --Maxamegalon2000 23:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully the segment will be repeated tonight. I found a mention much earlier on geek.com but it wasn't very detailed. Also, Newstalk ZB89.4. Anyway, at least that should clear up that we're not insane. :) Cordell 23:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Almost 7 minute clip of him on Fox News yesterday is on YouTube now. --Billdorr 21:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Anybody know if he blamed a particular game? Mixmastermind 00:37, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, he blames Counter Strike. Quantumchaos 01:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Didn't the first poster say Half-Life and flash based games were also mentioned?--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 03:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me reiterate that I missed the very first part of Jack's appearance on FOX (FNC), so I do not know the entire context in which his comments where made. I don't believe he directly blamed anything at all, but he certainly made plenty of implications considering there had been almost no information about the shooting other than the shooter being Asian at the point of his comments. Anyway, his comments included Grand Theft Auto, Counterstrike, Half Life and flash games in the same sentence. Let me also note that I inferred that he meant flash games on the web, but that might not be what he meant. He also commented briefly on the effect of violence in the media on killers by way of a reference to the topic of the recent Phillip Seymour Hoffman movie Copote. Cordell 05:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

exactly. when the MGS2 player killed him(her?)self, all that Jack did was ridicule them, and their friends. he should learn that not every murder is caused by video games, although they play a minor part. there are other things that play a part in these types of shootings, like mental diseases, how they were treated, traumatic events, etc. Jack Thompson, I hope that you are reading this. 71.200.98.184 16:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

The article on Jack Sarfatti also had somebody insert a piece claiming that that guy ranted about this shooting, in his case blaming it on the "islamofascists". The paragraph was removed soon due to lack of sourcing (it was allegedly from a mailing list or message board). There's something about incidents like this that both brings the wackos out of the woodwoork to make bizarre, unsupported theories of why the shooting happened (which just happen to mesh with their own political and social viewpoints), and brings the Wikipedians out to show the world how wacky the wackos are by adding inadequately-sourced reports of it to their articles. *Dan T.* 17:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

That definitely didn't happen during the segment he appeared in on Fox News on April 16th. It doesn't sound like Jack Thompson, anyway. Cordell 18:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds somewhat typical of him to me...--70.158.160.6 19:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a clip on Youtube.com showing footage from FOX News, Jack Thompson is interviewed on phone by host. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weG7A4lTGtg

Thanks for the link. I've watched it, and I'm honestly not sure if there's anything we can use regarding the Virginia Tech shootings. He mostly talks about previous school shootings, so we might be able to use this as a citation for some of the other incidents. The only thing he seems to say about this specific incident is that the FBI will be looking at his computer, which is neither here nor there. This appearance doesn't seem to me to be any more significant than all of his other ones. --Maxamegalon2000 00:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

On the video clip, Thompson did discuss past school shootings and how the perpetrators were somehow involved with video games; given that this is a Thompson article, and events like these fall within the domain of things that Thompson comments on, it's certainly worth putting in the article. On top of that, it's useful in that you actually hear Thompson himself, instead of relying on reading articles or news blurbs that might be biased one way or the other; this lets us hear the man himself. --PeanutCheeseBar 17:22, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

For one, we're not allowed to link to YouTube links that are copyright violations, which, unless Fox News uploaded it, this video is. Second, this clip isn't all that different from all of his other television appearances. We don't need to note all of his television appearances; I don't know why we need to note this one. --Maxamegalon2000 17:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of copyright, a link or source source from FOXNews does need to be found, and this does need to be documented; the event he is commenting on is of great notability, and to make note of lesser incidents on Thompson's article while deliberately ignoring ones that garner much more attention (such as the shootings) undermines the credibility of this article, and outside of Wikipedia, trivializes the shootings. --PeanutCheeseBar 18:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Your claim seems to be that we need to document every one of his appearances, which doesn't make sense. This isn't a Jack Thompson incident at all. There's no mention of the shootings in the articles on Dr. Phil or Rush Limbaugh, and I don't see how this appearance was different from any of his others. Very little of what he said was related to the VT shootings. People comment on incidents all the time. --Maxamegalon2000 19:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Limbaugh talks every day. Thompson only talks sometimes. Seems reasonable to include it here. It's relevant. Not every lawyer gets to soapbox on fox news when disasters strike. At any rate, why can't we just cite Fox News without a link, similarly to how we'd cite a book or magazine with no online presence? Why does there have to be a hyperlink to the source? Isn't providing the source enough? Fieari 00:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

We certainly can cite it without a link, and we probably can use it for a number of different parts of the article. But he says so little about the Virginia Tech shooting that I don't think there's much to say. "Thompson appeared on FOX News on the day of the Virginia Tech massacre, discussing violent video games and school shootings"? I don't see how this appearance is different from any of his other appearances. Why would we mention this one and not all of his others? --Maxamegalon2000 00:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Cite it without a link? Last I recall, there's been several occasions where things have been cited without links, and most of the time you've been the person to take them down. Also, nowhere did I say we have to cite EVERYTHING he says; I only pointed out that it's a bit absurd to cut out commentary on such a huge event as the VT shootings, while leaving in commentary from events with a much lesser impact.

In addition, I have to say that Fieari makes a good point about Thompson making comments to the media; people like Limbaugh and and Dr. Phil are everyday figures, but it's not everyday that Thompson gets the spotlight. --PeanutCheeseBar 01:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. 67 of our 117 citations do not have links to Internet articles or videos. My qualm with the FOX News appearance is that he says so little about the Virginia Tech shooting specifically. I actually just found this video, [4], where he actually comments on details of this shooting. If anyone would like to use that MSNBC report as a source, with the FOX News video as a supplement, that would be fine. We have a number of citations from television programs; I'm sure we can figure out how to cite these correctly. --Maxamegalon2000 01:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

It's nice that you found that video, though as I said before, you (and a few other users) have removed citations without links in the past and stated that without links, it's no good. --PeanutCheeseBar 02:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Link here should take you to the video. I think this information helps paint of clear picture of his character. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weG7A4lTGtg TIinPA

Here's another one: [5]. --Maxamegalon2000 05:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and written a paragraph. The FOX News appearance really didn't have anything to cite, so I didn't use it. --Maxamegalon2000 02:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's a link to an article about what Jack Thompson says about it: http://l2pnoob.wordpress.com/2007/04/19/bill-gates-is-responsible-for-vt-shootings-jack-t/ - 69.104.167.21 02:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I find it increditable people believe him as he so easily just effectively says "Oh, his room mate is wrong, he must be." Good old Jack --90.240.170.234 11:55, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

MSNBC has written a full article about his diatribe here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18220228/ This article not only describes what he said, but does research and debunks it; apparently, the shooter is demonstratively not a gamer at all. Fieari 16:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's already in use in the article. --Maxamegalon2000 16:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Half-Life? What the heck? I never play Bully, GTA, or CSS but now that he touched down on my favorite came i don't support him anymore. *I'm sorry, carry on*

Counterstrike came out for the XBox? When was this? I totally missed that... 69.105.202.33 02:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Republican "religious conservative?"

That line needs to be removed. When browsing through articles on various left-leaning "radicals" that are usually demonized, no political affiliation is mentioned in the page, and usually the word "liberal" or "left" is not found in the article. It seems unfair that when a right-leaning "radical," that is usually demonized, Wikipedia authors find it necessary to list the political affiliation and their ideology. Yes, we all know that Wikipedia leans fairly far-left, but at least keep it fair. I have chose not to be a member of Wikipedia, so, unfortunately, I can not edit the page and remove that line, for it is a locked page. Keep it fair guys. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.119.52.13 (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

That line is from an article written by Thompson. It is how he described himself; feel free to check the citation. I'm not sure how that is unfair. --Maxamegalon2000 14:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

that is called self-glorification. if you want to see more, then read JT's book, "Out Of Harm's Way". he used that to make himself look like the ultra-sensor. 71.200.98.184 17:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

So you written this little rant without finding out that he described himself like that? No "left-wing" conspiracy at work here, mate.--Svetovid 21:11, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

read the book's cover. he wrote it (not only the cover, but the book) himself. he used it to look like he was the good guy, all gamers are terrorists, and he wins every case he's participated in.

the truth is: JT is second only to Fred Phelps in terms of level of hatred, us gamers are the good guys, and he has only won 1 case, and I'm not even too sure about that one. 71.200.98.184 02:03, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I second that, he won that case because you would have to be a completely incompetent attorney not to win it. It was about the Hot Coffee mod found in GTA:SA

To be fair, it's unabashedly stupid to have a games rating raised (to an nigh-undistributable level) based on a small, unfinished, carefully hidden section, featuring laughable sex. Plus it seems kind of dumb that depicting harmless, consentual sex with a woman is somehow more damaging to the (probably non-virginal) adults the game is intended for than shooting them in the face. Espescially since a film depicting similar standards of sex would probably only end up with an R rating. 79.72.205.126 14:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Jack Thompson & Take Two Settle

Just read about it on GamePolitics. [6]

InformationWeek is also carrying a story on the settlement. [7] --JohnDBuell 21:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess he's going to have to find another videogame developer/publisher to complain about. Strider01 19:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Already has, CounterStrike (complete with writing a nasty gram to Bill Gates blaming the VTech massacres on Microsoft... despite Microsoft having nothing to do with the PC game) SirFozzie 19:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Bahahaha, that's hilarious how he's saying that Microsoft made Counter-Strike, even though the only thing MS has ever had to do with CS is publishing the crappy Xbox version of it. Strider01 20:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

More lawsuits...

Breaking news, Jack is suing Kotaku's parent company because of reader-posted comments. Frankly, that's just a little silly.[8]--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 22:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Wade through his lawsuit here: http://www.gamepolitics.com/images/legal/FL-JT-Kotaku.pdf--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 23:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

He meanders all over the place before getting to a point (if he has one), even mentioning the Terri Schiavo case at one point. It seems like one of the things he's trying to get at is that being a dangerous lunatic is constitutionally protected if it's a dangerous Christian lunatic... that's religious freedom, y'know. *Dan T.* 23:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This lawsuit is actually an amendment to a prior suit against the Florida bar.[9] All relevant information has been posted in the article. Unfortunately, that (the Kotaku/GamePolitics version) is the best link to the text of the actual complaint available for free. PACER has the complain in full, but it's not free (or cheap). The Justia docket information verifies the complaint, though, and is free. Dark54555

Unfortunately?--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 00:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

As it comes from a blog, wiki frowns on it as a legitimate source.Dark54555

I'd like to clarify my last edit summary, regarding the use of Justia as a source. It's just that Jack Thompson is a lawyer, and it follows that he's going to be involved in law suits. Justia lists a number of Thompson's suits against many different clients, and it would be inappropriate for us to pick and choose which suits to mention, unless we have secondary sources that assert the notability of a specific case. What are people's thoughts on adding Justia's list of Thompson's current suits as an external link? --Maxamegalon2000 01:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Maxamegalon, did you read the complaint? It alleges, among other things, a vast conspiracy among the Florida Bar, Florida Supreme Court, and Gawker (Kotaku) against him. As you've reverted the post 4 times now, you must really be against it appearing on the wiki, but it's evidence of (at a minimum) his over litigious nature against those who seem to oppose him, and based on the way the complaint is written, it may be evidence he's finally going off the deep end. As for Justia, it just keeps an archive of filings that appear on the district court websites, but it also has the appropriate links to every bit of case history and all filings (assuming you want to pay for them). The problem is there is no way to link to free versions of those filings at this stage in the litigation. In the interest of keeping Wikipedia current, I think Justia links are perfectly legitimate. Moreover, free reproductions of otherwise pay material, as long as it's verifiable (for example, the case number) should be equally relevant, short of some outbreak of people creating fake lawsuit documents online (which is both time consuming and rather pointless).Dark54555

The article already mentions the disbarment proceedings. Unless you feel there is insufficient sources to determine this is a response to the disbarment proceedings, or part of a response to them, I fail to see how it would not be equally significant.65.213.142.2 14:05, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Lawsuit goes byebye

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/04/26/breaking-kotaku-suit-goes-bye-bye-over-thompson-screw-up/--Viridis^{talk|contributions} 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/04/27/breaking-kotaku-suit-goes-bye-bye-over-thompson-screw-up/ Got moved. It's a technical fault, and he can still re-file (properly) as an amended complaint. Toast for now, but not gone by any stretch.Dark54555

VT shooting

jack thompson has recently blamed microsoft for the Virgina Tech shootings.

well, it's Jack Thompson, what did you expect?71.200.98.184 00:07, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he did blame Microsoft for the shootings, but referenced a game made by Ubisoft. Crinos43 17:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if I remember correctly, the game he referenced was Counter-Strike, which, on the PC at least (which is what he alleged the killer "trained" on), was published by Vivendi. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Why does he continue to make a fool out of himself? Bashing games he knows nothing about? It's funny, really.Centurion Ry 08:08, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to be unblocked so that I can add something to the VT section (or perhaps someone could do this on my behalf). I read most of the killer's Governor of Virginia psychological profile and not only was "Sonic The Hedgehog" the only video game mentioned, it's also stated that he was conspicuous for being one of the only dorm residents that did not play video games whatsoever. I apologize that I cannot give a direct quote, but it's in one of the PDFs in the Governor of Virginia VA-Tech review panel report at http://www.governor.virginia.gov/TempContent/techPanelReport.cfm --Spyrochaete 15:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

What Bar admitted him?

I see that this article details his legal battle with the Florida Bar, but what Bar does he himself belong to? The Florida one? Or the Ohio Bar? This article should mention what state he has the Bar in, if that information is available. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kwakkles (talk • contribs) 07:28, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

The Florida Bar, where he resides. He primarily practices law there, so its sort of a given. The article gives a link to his membership page at the florida bar. The florida bar would also not be able to disbar him were he not a member of their organization.65.213.142.2 13:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Thompson's targetting Wendy's.

[10] - A Link to the Past (talk) 01:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Halo 3

I added a brief line about how Thompson sent a letter to Microsoft regarding Halo 3. Found the letter here: http://www.gamealmighty.com/story-individual/story/Jack_Thompson_Lays_His_Legal_Sites_on_Halo_3/ --Jakelshark 05:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but gaming sites are not considered reputable sources for this article. I will continue to look for a reputable source for this information. --Maxamegalon2000 05:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

That's horrible logic. Gamepolitics is not only acknowledged by many people involved in video game controversies (including Jack Thompson), but they report on many details. To say that game sites are not reputable sources - assuming you mean to say that they are biased and cannot be used as a source - could be just as easily used on any liberal media web site, in regard to it being used as a source on a controversial piece of information related to Bush. - A Link to the Past (talk) 07:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I think I might be having trouble understanding WP:RS the same as you, megalon. According to WP:RS:

• "Reliable sources are credible published materials with a reliable publication process; their authors are generally regarded as trustworthy, or are authoritative in relation to the subject at hand.
• The reliability of a source depends on context; what is reliable in one topic may not be in another. A world-renowned mathematician may not be a reliable source on topics of biology. In general, a topic should use the most reliable sources available to its editors."

Which source would be regarded as more authoritative on games-related matters? Gamesindustry.biz, or the Daily Herald?

Which source would be regarded as more authoritative on motorhomes? Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly, or the Evening Standard?

Anyway, I have found two more outlets reporting the news (thanks Google News), though both use the original Game Almighty article as a source. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 14:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Um? Your whole argument shows that the game site is better simply because it puts all focus into the the gaming industry and nothing else, while the Daily Herald does everything. There has yet to be any evidence whatsoever that a games web site is patently unreliable, and the whole point of this discussion was that because it was a gaming web site, it could not be used as a source on this matter. - A Link to the Past (talk) 18:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I know. I was arguing the same point as you. Hence why mine was indented once against Megalon's post. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 18:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't notice. I glazed over the first line and assumed the message was in response to me. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Well Slashdot has just picked up on it, can we consider that a reliable source? http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/05/23/2146236.shtml - --Pinkank 02:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Since it points to the source that was originally objected to above, probably not. Slashdot isn't known for checking the accuracy of anything that is posted. Mrand ^T-C 03:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is entirely moot - the original source is not pathologically unreliable. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not ENTIRELY moot; you've just fighting the same battle that many other contributors have already fought against Maxamegalon2000, and suffering the same result. --PeanutCheeseBar 12:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see an issue. He sent a letter. There is a source (that seems to be mutually agreed to be fine with one exception) to verify that he has sent a letter, therefore there is nothing fundamentally wrong with putting in a sentence saying that he has sent his letter, right? Besides http://gamepolitics.com/ also have a story where they confirm they also have a copy of the letter. They esentially verify the original source of verification. DarkSaber2k 19:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the absence. I've been somewhat busy this week, and I plan on working on a more thorough and detailed response soon. Quickly, my major concerns: As DarkSaber2k puts it, "He sent a letter." Attorneys send letters all the time. The only evidence that this particular letter is notable is its coverage at a number of video game news sites, which is below the threshold of notability that this article currently maintains. Even GamePolitics agrees that "there’s nothing there. The letter is a mere threat on Thompson’s part, and not even a well-defined one." As I've pointed out before, GamePolitics is owned by the Entertainment Consumers Association and filed a bar complaint against Thompson. Dreaded Walrus asks "Which source would be regarded as more authoritative on motorhomes? Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly, or the Evening Standard?" Probably Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly, but the questions ignores two points. First, coverage in Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly does not grant the notability that coverage in the Evening Standard does, so greater depth and coverage does not necessarily mean that anything Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly says is worth mentioning. Second, this isn't an article on a video game, it's an article on a Florida attorney. The analogy is much better applied to a question about a legal news site. And I don't see how it can possibly be asserted that coverage that includes such prose as Here is an example of a man with too much time on his hands. He's spent so much time with himself that he now thinks he can take on the biggest software company in the world. It's like a mouse sitting in a hole, looking up at Mount Everest and thinking, Yeah, I can climb that. So he does, and you know what happens to that mouse? He freezes to death at the base. Then a goat eats him. And then all his little mice friends just shake their heads disapprovingly. to be unbiased, or a site that ignores its source material and claims that Mr. Thompson apparently couldn't reach Bill Gates directly, so he fired off his letter by proxy to the gaming press instead. to be reliable. I'll be posting something more substantial in the next few days. --Maxamegalon2000 22:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

"First, coverage in Motorcaravan Motorhome Monthly does not grant the notability that coverage in the Evening Standard does"

Oh, I agree entirely, 100% on that. Likewise, everything which gets mentioned in Cross-stitch Weekly (assuming there is such a magazine) is not as notable as something which gets mentioned on ABC News. Although the point I was trying to make (and I thought this is what the discussion was about at the time) was not about the notability of the event, but rather the reliability of the source. Which you address in your second point quite well.

To be honest, I just had a look at WP:RS and saw the bit about "authoritative", and made a comparison about that. I sometimes have a habit of playing Devil's advocate. I don't care too much about whether this particular story is involved in the article (hell, it isn't even getting that much coverage in the games press, relatively speaking), I was more interested in the RS discussion, I think. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 23:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

A non-gaming site that is covering this article. OBEY STARMAN 13:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

they reference the original source though —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.226.112.193 (talk • contribs).

So? No one is able to show that GP has an apparent bias against Jack Thompson to the point where they would claim that he made a statement that could potentially get him in trouble. - A Link to the Past (talk) 23:09, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I was just pointing out that in a debate on whether or not a source is reliable referencing a third party site that references the site in question as its source isnt helpful. If it referenced another source or claimed that it got the information through its own means than its helpful.

ALttP, it is the opinion of some editors here (myself not included) that if the site does reports on video games or video game-related news, then it's biased. Regardless, if another non game-related site sees fit to comment about or link to the original game-related site's article, then that site is staking its reputation and credibility on the game-related site's article; linking to a gaming site's article doesn't inherently taint or ruin the credibility of the story or the site. --PeanutCheeseBar 17:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

So basically, you're saying that it is a matter of impossibility for a gaming site to be unbiased in any sense of the word? Newsflash: This is something that you would be hard-pressed to even show. I would LOVE it if you showed a time where GamePolitics made a false news article. Until then, assuming bias "because" is a horrible reason to not use a source. Should we also not use news sites that report news about only one state? I mean, after all, wouldn't they be most likely to post pro-"that state" news? Also, Gamepolitics is a reliable secondary source. If you can't prove it's bad, stop saying it's bad. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:52, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Once again ALttP, you're attacking me for no reason; I'd love to use gaming sites as a source, except Maxamegalon will revert them because they're inherently "biased" (at least, in his eyes). That having been said, please read my posts a little more carefully before replying to me and blindly attacking me. --PeanutCheeseBar 12:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Why do we care what one person thinks, especially when that person is quite obviously wrong? Wikipedia works by consensus, not by whatever "Maxamegalon" says. Dlong 17:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Madonna

Why is she mentioned under the "Rap music" section? Perhaps that section could be renamed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.27.168.204 (talk • contribs).

I was about to agree with you and change the name of the section, but then I read the bit about Madonna, which looks like this:

"Thompson’s push to label various musical performances obscene was not entirely limited to rap. In addition to taking on 2 Live Crew, Thompson campaigned against sales of the racy music video for Madonna’s Justify My Love."

So therefore, as it already states that it was not just limited to rap music, that explains why it's there. It also perhaps wouldn't be appropriate to rename the section, as he isn't opposed to all forms of music, and the vast majority of the complaints he had were directed at rap acts. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 00:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

comments on islam

im suprised nobody mentioned these comments. can you add something on what he said about islam, because thats bull. islam condones violence, no matter what insane idiots like jack thompson says and it just adds to the bad stereotyps that are given to muslim men. i sereiously doubt he has read the whole quran so i dont see what gives him the right to jump the gun and say that stuff, especially about prophet mohammed. can you just add that muslims who heard these comments were enraged and that islam condone violence excuse me if im out of line please, someone do this —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gooly (talk • contribs).

Do you have any sources for him saying these things? If you can find news reports from reliable sources, then we can have a look at what he said. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

That is, unless you're talking about the stuff you just removed from the article. In which case, yes it's in the article. :) --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

ITS IN THE ARTICLE (Thompson and Howard Stern) Never mind i deleted it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gooly (talk • contribs).

Yes, he was out of line. But it was a notable thing he has said, so I re-included it. I don't agree with Mr Thompson on this issue (or most issues), but just deleting quotes from an article just because the person who said them was wrong should not be done. Like I say, I am not condoning his comments, and I also heavily disagree with his opinion, but it should still be included in the article. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 17:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

i guess, i just think someone should add saying the response of the muslim communtiy because this just adds to the bad image (Gooly 20:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)).

If you can find a source giving the response of the Muslim community, feel free to add it. --Maxamegalon2000 20:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

sorry im new so i dont know much about this. anyway, its just that not many muslims would know that he said that. is there anyway of saying that what he said was wrong without violating guidelines on non factual or unsourced comments? i would really appreciate it. (Gooly 21:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)).

Pretty much the only way you would be able to avoid violating guidelines on original research, would be to cite your sources. Even if you just provide it as an inline link, someone will probably be along to correct it soon.

The problem is, we cannot say that there was a negative response from the Muslim community, if we cannot find (for example) news reports saying so. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 22:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

ok. i think i should just put a link to the islam page, because i seriously doupt many muslims know who jack thompson is. problem is, i dont know how to do links. im just going to the help section (Gooly 22:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)) i did the link, it works. (Gooly 22:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC))

Yep! And now, anyone can click that, and they will go to the page on Islam. It's really simple to make links to other Wikipedia pages, you just put it in double square brackets. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 22:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok i found a site which says about how islam condems violence; will i be able to act on that? sorry for bumbing an old thing but im still anoyed about what he said. heres the link: http://www.cair.com/html/911statements.html (Gooly 19:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC))

No, not really. The response has to be in response to Thompson's statements, otherwise the information would be better placed in an article about what the comments are actually in response to. --Maxamegalon2000 23:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Bugger. Ok, i'll keep searching. (Gooly 18:36, 16 June 2007 (UTC))

I agree with Maxamegalon2000. The link you provide is in response to the ]]. And if you go to that article, there is definitely mention of the mainstream Muslim American condemnation of the events. It even mentions the company you link to by name.

As Maxamegalon says, if we are to include a response to his claims in the article, they have to actually be a response to his claims.

As the article stands though, I wouldn't worry about people reading that and getting the wrong idea about Islam. Most people who read through the article would probably realise that often he says things that aren't actually true, or are exaggerations. Still, I've wikilinked Islam and Quran, so that anyone wishing to find out more can do so with more ease. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 19:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

guys, this may sound stupid but i just realised i was using the wrong word! condone means allow, i meant condem sorry (Gooly 11:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC))

Don't worry, I think we all know what you meant. It would be a bit weird for you to say that JT is wrong when he says that Islam promotes killing people, and then for you to go on to say that Islam condones violence. :P --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 14:11, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

ok, i fixed it. (Gooly 17:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC))

10-year-old buying GTA: Vice City...

I heard somewhere that the 10-year-old who was video-taped buying GTA: Vice City was his son. Is this true? --Particleman24 15:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Where did you hear this? If you heard it merely in an internet forum, it's most likely an attempt at slandering his already minimal credibility (which is something that can not be considered seriously for lengthy research) 86.133.35.27 13:15, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I heard that he sent his son in to buy the game to prove that the store in question was selling R-rated games to underage kids. Unfortunately it has been too long for me to remember where I saw the story and, even though I am sure it was Thompson himself that reported it, I'm pretty sure I saw it on a gaming-related news site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.93.119 (talk) 05:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Psycho-Test for him?

According to http://gamepolitics.com/2007/07/03/jack-thompson-claims-bar-official-demanded-psych-test-suspension/ (yes, probably not the most relaible source) Jack Thomspon has received a 91 day suspension by the Florida Bar, in order to submit to a psychological testing. Might be interesting, let's see how it develops, maybe it's worth adding it one day - —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

It doesn't say that he accepted them, it says they demanded it of him. Which kind of implies that it hasn't been applied yet, he may be fighting it in the court. You should read the whole article in the future. - 121.44.7.178 21:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Jack VS. Bioshock

Jack sent a complaint to the Federal Trade Commision about Bioshock's add during Friday night Smackdown. Some of his letter states "Take-Two... is aggressively marketing its newest Mature-rated video game to kids under 17 years of age... On this Friday's night's 8 pm Eastern time airing of WWE's wrestling program " Oddly enough, Take Two has absolutley nothing to do with Bioshock. I think this should be added to his page. Link: http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/19/jack-thompson-files-bioshock-ad-complaint-with-ftc/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noxis12 (talk • contribs) 22:15:51, August 19, 2007 (UTC).

Wouldn't that on face violate the terms of his agreement with Take-Two? Bartleby 07:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. It would, were it not for the fact that the game is published by 2K, not Take-Two. In fact, a quote from Thompson (also used in the above link) is "Take-Two/Rockstar Game's Mature-rated, incredibly violent BioShock".

So, basically, all this shows is Thompson still doesn't know what on earth he's talking about. Rockstar haven't had a single thing to do with this game. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 07:39, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Isn't 2K a subsidiary of Take Two Interactive? - The_Poe 09:49, 31 August 2007

As far as I know, yes. Bartleby 03:13, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Oops, yeah. I forgot about that. But the Rockstar Games mixup is still there. You won't catch me out on that one! :P --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 06:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

He also sent his 15-year old son to buy the game to see if they would sell it to him. Best-Buy did, and now he wants to sue them, after he TOLD the kid to do it. Moron —Preceding unsigned comment added by Slipknotsystem (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure where you got the idea that he now wants to sue them. --Maxamegalon2000 05:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't you know? Jack Thompson sues everyone lolrofletc --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 06:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The hilarious bit (as is reflected in the article) is that it wasn't illegal for Best Buy to sell it to his kid at the time. 155.212.30.130 20:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone really listen to or care what he says anymore? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.86.204.185 (talk) 02:02, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

JBJT on CAD

Jack has been spoofed and called out by Tim Buckeley on CAD a few times now and he's got his own 3 part storyline in the CAD animated series. Shouldn't spoofs, jokes and the like be listed here as well. They're listed in almost every other biography page when appropriate. - 202.10.80.69 03:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

There are already some spoofs included in the article in response to specific notable events- for example, I'm O.K - A Murder Simulator. However, a general spoof such as an animation would most likely belong in a trivia section (and as such probably wouldn't be suitable for inclusion in this article.) --Sigma 7 05:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Jack threatens to sue Rockstar

Yea, He's at it again. He is threatening to break the agreement and sue rockstar and take-two to prevent GTAIV from being marketed. Can someone add this info in the jack vs grand theft auto article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Someguy (talk • contribs) 14:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jack Thompson Says GTA 4 Mission Target is Him; Threatens to Block Release

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/09/18/jack-thompson-says-gta-4-mission-target-is-him-threatens-to-block-release/

216.65.194.228 18:51, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Porn submission

Here's a link that doesn't seem to source from GamePolitics, though it mentions it: the article has a much higher level of detail. http://nationalgaynews.com/content/view/1742/173/--SarekOfVulcan 17:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

NGN is the subject of the gay porn. I've included a link to the PDF, as well as the docket and case number, and sourcing from slashdot. Personally, I don't see what's wrong with GamePolitics, considering they are hosting a PDF of the response to the contempt notice. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 18:04, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Being an attorney, Thompson is likely connected to thousands of documents every year. Thus, we shouldn't be asserting notability for any of them unless we have an acceptable secondary source. --Maxamegalon2000 18:11, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

He is not, however being faced with a contempt order every year. This is notable for any attorney. It's further notable that it was noted in the supreme court document. I suspect we'll be seeing a flurry of news stories upon the ruling of the contempt charge. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 18:27, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure he's not? Also, as you seem to indicate, the ruling on the contempt charge has the potential to be much more notable than the charge itself. If there's a flurry of news stories, then the event is clearly notable and can be mentioned, but if there isn't, then the event clearly isn't notable. We should wait until then and avoid the speculation. --Maxamegalon2000 18:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, no he is not. As for the contempt charge, you're misunderstanding the process. It's not a criminal charge, it's a civil sanction. What has happened so far, is that he is in danger of being held in contempt: he's been ordered to show cause why he should not be held in contempt of court and charged sanctions. That's where he is right now: he is not in contempt yet, and there is no "merit" hearing to effect a charge (charge is a poor word for this kind of sanction). If the judge finds cause to show that he IS in contempt, he will hold Thompson in contempt and effect sanctions from that point. What I mean from that is, right now the judge has said "If you can't show me why you're not in contempt, you're going to be sanctioned". That's notable on its own (especially framed with his prior history of sending gay porn to judges): the TYPE of sanction he receives (if he is indeed found to have been in contempt) will be even MORE notable. Think of it like this: he's newsworthy for this but he's ULTRA newsworthy if he goes to jail for a few days for it and gets fined a few hundred thousand. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 19:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

If this were newsworthy (which may be different from notable), wouldn't other media would be doing their own reporting on it, and not just repeating GP's version? --Maxamegalon2000 21:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the ones picking it up are not the type to do any reporting (Slashdot, a blog), so it's not surprising. Which, as you say, illustrates that the matter is probably premature to be including here. It's not like we don't already have coverage of several previous situations about his conduct in court and fitness to practice, so what's so critical about including this one that the article doesn't have without it? --Michael Snow 21:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't say critical. It's more like "Shocking to believe he would do something as stupid as this." important. i.e. there's plenty of Britney Spears bad mother news stories....but the latest one is always still notable and coverable, in that it establishes that the chain of dumb decisions is still continuing. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 22:02, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

That sounds more like trying to prove a point about the man than trying to synthesize the truly significant things he's done into a neutral presentation of his career. If the latest one is what's important, perhaps we can edit out some of the earlier ones in this bloated article because they're now superfluous? If this particular incident matters so much, I'd like to see independent coverage from a source not regularly dedicated to proving a constant chain of dumb decisions by Thompson. --Michael Snow 22:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Hence the slashdot post. They've got plenty of other interests than Thompson. I don't see anything wrong with editing out some of the earlier ones, if the newer ones are better.⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 03:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hence the "independent" qualifier. Slashdot is not media coverage in the normal sense, it's regurgitations of whatever people submit that interests the moderators. It's no better a source than whatever it traces to. --Michael Snow 17:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) But slashdot does not just take anything. They're a highly notable site, considering the term "slashdotting" is a common phrase. They don't just submit nonsense, they submit stuff they think is notable and important.⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 19:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

You're treating "notability" as transitive, which is effectively abdicating editorial judgment. That Slashdot is notable does not mean everything posted there is notable. The editorial criteria there (which include a fair amount of random, off-the-wall stuff that's difficult to characterize as "notable and important") are not the editorial criteria for an encyclopedia. Nor does it cure the problem with relying wholly on a tendentious source. --Michael Snow 19:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's where we disagree. I think that most things that Slashdot posts are notable. Obviously some things are not, such as open questions, or "so we're playing this video game right now", but a well known, notorious attorney doing something outrageous to get attention (which is what he is famous for), is clearly not one of those. As for the tendentiousness of the source, I think that is being upplayed. Jack Thompson is pretty well hated by most everyone he comes across, certainly the entire game industry, and probably a large part of the legal industry, and music industry as well. Just because the source dislikes him, doesn't mean that the information they are presenting is wrong (considering that they are court documents: I'd verify them in PACER but I'm too lazy to register my credit card with them even though its free.) I'm not familiar enough with Lexis and West yet to know how to dig up ongoing court documents in there, but the case numbers and document numbers are freely listed there.⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 21:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's as much of a question of the accuracy of the sources as you think it is. It's more a question of the notability conferred by the sources. Looking up documents in Lexis and West is a fine way of determining accuracy, but says nothing about whether a filing or an incident is notable. Documents are filed all the time. Contempt charges are contemplated all the time. When you look at Thompson's long and important career, this incident simply doesn't have the coverage required to justify its inclusion yet. Once something actually happens, if it does, then there may be sufficient coverage, but until then there really isn't anything to point to the notability of this incident. --Maxamegalon2000 17:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

So you're saying that, once there is "sufficient" coverage, then we can throw something in about it? I doubt there will be *any* coverage, as the only time Thompson got in the news in the first place was when he was chasing either an ambulance or a massacre. We have the court documents as linked from GamePolitics - they're official. The whole incident may not be of as great an importance to the news media as Brittney Spear's latest screwup, but to the gaming community, the people who will be frequenting this article, it is of much greater importance. It is also of great importance to Jack's legal career, as it is quite damning - I'm of the opinion that it is quite relevant to the article. If nothing else, the whole of the proceedings could, within the next few weeks, change the article heading from "Jack Thompson (attorney)" to "Jack Thompson (former attorney)"ApokalypseCow 19:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

GA Sweeps (kept)

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Ruslik 11:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Pixelante

The link "Pixelante" links back to Jack's wikipedia page. Why is this? Did some stupid editor believe that the former "Pixelante" wasn't enough and was just too thick to comprehend the aftermath of their actions? Either way, this needs to be fixed otherwise we all look like idiots, rather than that one stupid editor who deleted the former "Pixelante" page and linked it back to Jack's page. There isn't even another mention of the word "Pixelante" on the page it re-directs to, anyway! - User:d'Agent 18:25 02 November 2007 (GMT)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pixelante for the reasons the page now links back here. I'll remove the wikilink from the article. --Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 18:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Judge dismisses JT's suit against Florida Bar

Even though it's posted on a "gaming news" site (GamePolitics), it's got a copy of the court documents. Can we use the court document info as a reference? It's got the case #, document #, date of submission, etc for John Thompson vs. Florida Bar, et al http://gamepolitics.com/2007/11/21/federal-judge-dismisses-jack-thompsons-suit-against-florida-bar/ http://www.gamepolitics.com/images/legal/JT-FL-case-dismissed-112007.pdf

Basic summary is that JT, trying to stall his disciplinary trial, filed suit against the FL Bar claiming they were "out to get him". The federal judge ruled that he had failed to prove so, and dismissed his suit, which will allow the disciplinary trial to proceed. Also of note is JT filed a motion with a higher court, trying to have this judge taken off the suit, and that too was denied. He has declared he will appeal, but also filed a "motion" declaring that the upper court is conspiring with the lower court, and so they too are "out to get him"... Jabrwock (talk) 18:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Can we use this tag?

{{cite court
  |litigants=John Thompson v. Florida Bar, et al
  |vol=
  |reporter=
  |opinion=
  |pinpoint=
  |court=S.D. Fla. L.R.
  |date=[[November 20]] [[2007]]
  |url= }}

I've put in a request to the court citation template page to allow the case/docket # to be added to the citation, for allowing unpublished cases to be cited. Case 07-21256-CIV-JORDAN/1:07-cv-21256-AJ - Document 347. Jabrwock (talk) 18:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Closing of GTA-case

Hello reverters,

Rather then reverting without a specific reason, please comment here what the problem is and explain why the closing of the GTA-case is according to you wrong. It's sourced well and you don't give any other source saying differently.

JackSparrow Ninja (talk) 10:07, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Our edit summaries have already indicated the reason. To elaborate, the source claims to be based on GamePolitics and fails to even restate correctly what GamePolitics said. It's a classic illustration of the many reasons to avoid gaming news websites as sources for this article (reliance on third- and fourth-hand information, echo chamber effect, frequent absence of any real understanding of the legal system resulting in lots of misreporting, inherent tendency to be biased against him and present the worst possible construction of a situation, problems with undue weight on the videogame activism portion of his career). --Michael Snow (talk) 19:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur. I apologize for not responding to the query on my user talk page earlier; I've been somewhat busy this week. The assertion that the site being used as a source is "the biggest gaming website of the Netherlands" does little to support its use in an article about a Florida attorney. --Maxamegalon2000 19:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Re-protection?

The box on the page says it's semi-protected 'til December 29, but I just saw a vandalized version of the page barely 3 seconds ago. I would really like for it to be fully protected. 76.23.175.114 (talk) 22:30, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

A-whoops. Forgot I wasn't logged in. tinlv7 (talkpage) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.175.114 (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

(...tinlv7 (talk) 22:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)...)

mabey we could just "foget" about protection. (relax its a joke) (211.31.189.93 (talk) 12:01, 6 January 2008 (UTC))

win's?

i have heard it said that jack has never won a court case. but is this true i can't find it in here. it is a popular rumor so could we put in weather its is just a rumor of if it is real. alot of people are going to come here to find out(211.31.189.93 (talk) 12:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC))

I would also like to know if this rumor is true. Please link reliable resource for proof. --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 04:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Criticism section and Scott Ramsoomair

I say that the rationale behind the reversions of the following: "Webcomic artist Scott Ramsoomair created a series of VGCats comic strips titled "Jack Thompson's A Christmas Carol." The series, a parody of A Christmas Carol, casts Thompson in the role of Ebenezer Scrooge, likening him to the Charles Dickens character. "

... is uninformed.

I don't care too much about the section name, but that information ought to stay.

This is an opinion.

Opinions are treated differently than facts.

Look at Wikipedia:Undue weight "# If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;"

VGCats is widely-read and has an Alexa rating of 3,324 (astonishing!) The author lives off of his work and appears at conventions. The author also wrote some strips for Square Enix (notice that Adventure Log is copyrighted by Square Enix).

Is Ramsoomair prominent? Of course he is. Is his webcomic a critique of and can it be considered an expression of Ramsoomair's opinion? Yes, it is. Common sense would say that the source is reliable for expressing that particular claim. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:32, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

A few things.

1. You seem to be saying that being able to publish a webcomic for a living makes one's opinion of an attorney sufficiently relevant to merit coverage in an encyclopedia article on the attorney. Ramsoomair is, without question, prominent in the webcomic community, and potentially the video game community as well, but how is this relevant to the question at hand?
2. Again, I think it a mistake to assume as readily as you have that the content of VG Cats consistently and accurately represents the personal opinions of its creator. VG Cats is not an opinion column; as Ramsoomair himself notes, his comics may contain parody, "a literary or artistic device used in a jovial fashion for the purpose of comedic effect." Also, if this comic is criticism, why are the webcomics cited in footnote 101 not also criticism? What makes this one more notable than these examples?
3. The section in question would seem to violate Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Criticism, which says that "The views of critics should be represented if they are relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources." My reading of this policy requires that Ramsoomair's criticism, if it can be shown to be such, must be sourced to reliable secondary sources before it can be added. The rationale behind this policy seems to me to be that most people have opinions, and many people publish their opinions; the opinions that should be covered in an encyclopedia article about a person are those that are covered by secondary sources. I could start a blog and post my opinions on things, but it would be difficult to support an assertion that my opinions are relevant to their subjects without some secondary source saying as much.

--Maxamegalon2000 03:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

1. Well, maybe a definition of prominent is in order. From Merriam-Webster: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/prominent - "b: widely and popularly known " - Because "Maxamegalon2000" is not widely and popularly known, the "blog" would not be cited. 2. "VG Cats is not an opinion column; as Ramsoomair himself notes, his comics may contain parody" - The comic is obviously a satire of Jack Thompson. When Leo offers Pokemon for trade the Ramsoomair version of Thompson yells "Bah, Humbug!" Then Ramsoomair!Thompson orders his minion to shovel video games into a fire. This isn't meant to completely accurately portray Thompson's comprehensive personality. The comic is a naked attack against Thompson's positions on violent video games. Add the crazed expressions, and I think Ramsoomair's position on Thompson is obvious. Ebenezer Scrooge, in the beginning, is shown to be a not-very-nice person. Thompson is in the exact role of Scrooge. 3. Now, regarding your second point, requirement #1 has been fulfilled (Thompson is known for filing suits against violent video games, AND the comic portrays Thompson ordering his crony to shovel video games into a fire). What I need to do is see when/if a person writes about the portrayal (satisfying the requirement #2 regarding secondary sources). WhisperToMe (talk) 05:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, CBS News Gamespeak interviewed Ramsoomair here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/05/tech/gamecore/main678332.shtml - He does not specifically condemn Thompson, but he goes after the general group

• "They [Conservative groups, watchdog groups] are just going through the motions. They’ve never played, read, or watched these things but they’ll be the first to condemn it. Take BMXXX, a horrible game, but not for its content. It was just a very bad game. But people hear nudity and everyone is up in arms." WhisperToMe (talk) 05:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

1. I find it difficult to believe that Ramsoomair is prominent in legal circles.
2. Wait, so is the comic satire or a "naked attack"? I think it inaccurate to paint satire as criticism; they're not the same.
3. With all due respect, good luck with that.
4. Regarding the Gamespeak interview, which I'm familiar with, I agree that he does not specifically condemn Thompson.

--Maxamegalon2000 04:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

1. From my understanding, notability in any method is required. Why does it have to be "notability in legal circles"? The policy does not say that the person making the critique has to be a legal expert. In any event national U.S. media groups interviewed him. What makes Ramsoomair's criticism relevant is that Ramsoomair created a webcomic about video games and he dislikes Thompson's legal approach towards video games. I do not know if Ramsoomair is actually an expert in the law, but for some reason CBS News believed that he would be someone to interview. I think this also gave him prominence. 2. Let's look at a definition of satire:

• Satire: "A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit." - From "satire." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 15 Jan. 2008. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire>.
  • In other words, a satire can be defined as an attack.
• He condemns the type of person that Thompson is. I am not exactly sure if other such people are going to be featured, but he seems to be attacking Thompson as he is one of the "Watchdog groups"/"Conservative groups" that he dislikes. Now, while I haven't seen a secondary source comment about "A Christmas Carol with Jack Thompson" specifically, I found an earlier work confirming Ramsoomair's views. Should I invite other people on here and see if I should wait for third party stuff specifically about Ramsoomair's "Christmas Carol"? WhisperToMe (talk) 07:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

WhisperToMe (talk) 07:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Excellent Quote About Him That Should Be Added to the Article

The following is a quote about Jack Thompson written by “Seanbaby” and published on pages 90–91 in the February 2008 (number 225) issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly; it would add greatly to this article:

    Will anyone win the debate on violence in videogames? Since Mortal Kombat, media watchdogs have been fighting to censor games. Will they shut up in 2008? Despite most studies on the subject finding videogame violence leads only to videogame victory, some people are still very fussy about the topic. It just makes sense to them—seeing fictional murder should lead to real murder, right? For international idiot and anti-videogame crusader Jack Thompson, yes.
    Jack Thompson imagines a child who is desensitized to violence by his Xbox and then assaults real people. I was never really clear if this was because the kid actually thinks he’s in the Xbox and his classmates are space monsters, or if the Xbox just made him into a sociopath. Either way, he’s probably related to those hypothetical kids who learned levitation from Satan and Dungeons & Dragons. And those kids’ parents, incidentally, may be the imagined people who need to be told DO NOT ATTEMPT during commercials with physical activity in them.
    There’s one problem with using hypothetical people in your argument. Watch what I can do with them: These people were all centaurs the entire time. There, see how with the addition of one sentence, Jack Thompson is now talking about half-children/half-horses? That’s what happens when your debate sources are imaginary—it’s insane, impossible to prove or disprove, and one special boy can make your world a land of glorious centaurs.
    I understand I can’t help the people of 2008 pick a side, but I look at it like this: Even if you manage to lock a baby in a tomb with no questionable material for 18 years, it will be a freak as soon as you unseal it. Censorship takes away the inoculation we need in this corruptible world of ours. I invite readers to test this theory on their own by hooking up with a girl who was raised under strict religious guidelines. Warning: This warning will not prepare your lap for the savage assault of her shame, confusion, and revenge against her father.
    Predictions: We will see only more controversy with retailers and the ESRB, but thousands of nerds will have a truly moving topic for their English papers.
— Needsshwn (talk) 02:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Just seanbaby ranting, I don't think it's relevant to an encyclopedia.VatoFirme (talk) 08:52, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Sigh

At it again, this time with the recent NIU shooting: http://kotaku.com/356999/jack-thompson-blames-niu-shooting-on-video-gamesVatoFirme (talk) 19:21, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added a paragraph on this to the end of the "other activities" section. I'm not sure if it was the right place to put it but it can be moved quite easily if nessisary.--Bisected8 (talk) 14:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I've moved it to the same section as the Virginia Tech shooting info, and changed the citation to the program itself. --Maxamegalon2000 19:43, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Order to show cause

It appears that Thompson has been given a show cause order for "abusing the legal system". In my view, this seems pretty significant, and should probably be added to the section on the Florida Bar. Anyone else agree/disagree? Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 22:58, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree, its shame some people are still going to take him seriously non-the-less.--Bisected8 (talk) 19:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Gamers

does anyone think that his feud with adam sessler should be added? Hollywoodd 01:25, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

IRL request

Will someone fucking slap this guy? Seriously? Just the name "Jack Thompson" pisses me off now. 90.194.70.41 (talk) 17:53, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I second that motion. Jack "the jackass" Thompson should be slapped. CyberRaptor (talk) 18:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Reality check

Wouldn't that logic prevent mentioning anything the subject of an article says about anything other than himself?

It's best, when citing "logic", to actually use some. So, again, the relevance of a FLORIDA attorney's gasbagging on the topic of the New York Bar Association is WHAT, exactly? Does Thompson have some especial expertise or fame regarding prostitutes? Are relationships with prostitutes and his opinions thereof an important part of Thomspson's life and therefore relevant to his biography?

Inquiring minds want to know the answers to questions actually raised instead of making things up out of whole cloth. --Calton | Talk 22:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Tell me, should this article have a special section entitled "Jack Thompson and prostitution" so that we can all go in-depth on this issue? Do you have any more prostitution-related factoids we can throw in regarding Thompson? --Calton | Talk 22:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why you're limiting this discussion to prostitution. In fact, this is the first time you've mentioned it at all; your previous edit summaries have focused exclusively on the New York State Bar. Replacing the subject of prostitution with that of state bars in your above questions leads to clear answers. Yes, Thompson has "some especial expertise of fame regarding" bar associations. "Relationships with" bar associations "and his opinions thereof" are "an important part of [Thompson's] life and therefore relevant to his biography." As it turns out, we do have an entire section devoted to Thompson's relationship with his state bar, allowing us to "all go in-depth on this issue."

The question I posed that you quote stands. Calton, your last edit summary was "I repeat again, what does the blathering of a FLORIDA attorney about the NYBA have to do with the FLORIDA attorney's bio? Answer: nothing whatsoever." Could you not ask the same question, replacing "the NYBA" with any of the subjects which Thompson regularly discusses? "Video games"? "Rap music"? "The Florida Bar"? "Janet Reno"? Notable attorneys become notable as attorneys by the things they say and write, or, in your words, "blather." I think the "blathering" of an attorney about nearly any legal subject that the Associated Press thinks appropriate to write an article about is sufficiently relevant to that attorney's bio. --Maxamegalon2000 23:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

And, for what it's worth, the logic I'm referring to in my original question was yours. --Maxamegalon2000 23:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Could you not ask the same question, replacing "the NYBA" with any of the subjects which Thompson regularly discusses?

Nope: you have to actually answer the actual question I actually asked instead of deflecting it into absurdities. I repeat: the relevance of a FLORIDA attorney's gasbagging on the topic of the New York Bar Association is WHAT, exactly? Does Thompson have some especial expertise or fame regarding Spitzer, the NYBA, prostitutes, or anything else connected with the issue, or any reason whatsoever fo it being in what's supposed to be a biography and not "JT's Soapbox"? The actual answer, to save you the typing, is "not a damned thing" -- unlike, say, his gasbagging on the other issues, which are, in fact, the only reasons he has an article here in the first place.

Provide an actual justification instead of intellectually dishonest dodges and then we could be said to be having a discussion. You can start any time. --Calton | Talk 08:26, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe that my first paragraph, discussing Thompson's experience with bar association issues and attorney misconduct, answers your question with the specificity it sounds like you'd prefer; I'm not sure which of my other points you are referring to as "absurdities" or "intellectually dishonest." I was under the impression that the removal of sourced information from an article should occur after a discussion, not before. That you again removed the information without responding to the points I raised makes me question your devotion to discussing the issue at all. --Maxamegalon2000 13:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Try again: what is the relevance of a FLORIDA attorney's gasbagging on the topic of the NEW YORK Bar Association? He is not in any way, shape, or form associated with the NYBA and its issues, has no expertise regarding its issues, and doesn't have the slightest standing -- legal or otherwise -- to have his comments be in any way meaningful. And given that his experience with bar associations is wholly about his being sanctioned by his own, nothing more, your claim of related experience is absurd to the point of outright falsity. And more to the point, what the hell does his opinions on issues outside his ken have the slightest to do with his biography? Your points are meaningless, given that they've been a) inapplicable, and b) passive-aggressive dodges, and I've provided the reality check that you are -- willing or otherwise -- ignoring. --Calton | Talk 13:36, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, as the article states, Thompson has filed suit against the Florida Bar, and that proceeding is separate from his being sanctioned by them. Thompson's comments, whether "gasbagging" or not, tend to be deemed meaningful by reputable sources; he has appeared on FOX News and other cable programs numerous times as an expert on school shootings, and the Associated Press determined that his comments on this issue were worth noting. The points you raise about how unrelated a Florida attorney is to a New York Bar Association issue would be valid reasons for Thompson to not make his comments, or for the Associated Press to not bother covering them, but Thompson made the comments and the Associated Press covered them in an admittedly brief article, but an article nonetheless.

I think much of this would make more sense if you considered how in many contexts, including this one, Thompson's career as an attorney often merely adds to his credentials as an activist, as he is described in our article's lead paragraph. Should his disbarment proceedings result in his no longer being an attorney, your first question would be even stronger: "What is the relevance of a FLORIDA citizen's gasbagging on the topic of the NEW YORK Bar Association?" The answer, however, would likely be the same as the one I gave above. The media occasionally seems to decide that Jack Thompson's comments are notable because, whether directly relevant or not, they are made by Jack Thompson. In this light, I think your second question is based on an incorrect assumption that this issue is outside his ken; neither he nor the Associated Press seem to believe this to be the case. --Maxamegalon2000 15:46, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

3RR regarding inclusion of Spitzer paragraph

Can we please find a way to compromise on this issue?

I think something like this (him talking about Spitzer) is notable mainly because Jack Thompson likes to get involved with current news events that he wasn't asked to get involved in. However, the source citing this statement is very weak. I'm not sure how notable Staten Island Live is but I cannot find reference to this in other news articles. Strongsauce (talk) 16:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It's from The Associated Press State & Local Wire, with a dateline of Albany, NY. I suppose we could cite that directly if it improves things. --Maxamegalon2000 16:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

EDIT This can be achieved by adjusting the level of zoom in the game and getting the proper camera angle. Seriously though unless you're stuck without a vehicle for a weekend I wouldn't bother taking the time to figure it out.

Unsourced Material

This phrase is not sourced, and is potential untrue.

Nevertheless, a command that could be entered into the in-game console in order to disable the blur effect was removed from the game in an expansion.

It's referring to Thompson's position on The Sims 2, and is untrue and biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.196.186 (talk) 19:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Source 107

This doesnt seem to be an actual source? Just says MSNBC, sentence will have to be removed if no source is given, this being a bio. John.n-IRL 02:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Section headings with wikilinks

Isn't this against a style manual? Or have things changed? - Tbsdy lives (talk) 12:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Source 104

This source is cited twice. The first time it is used correctly (between sources 103 and 105) but then later it is found between 111 and 112. This second location talks about Thompson challenging Della Rocca to a debate and then declining when he can't make money off of it. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but this source has nothing to do with the topic. If someone has the real source or can find one, please do so. Otherwise, remove the line and link. CheshiresMasquerade (talk) 00:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Source for Enhanced Disbarment Recommendation

I'm unable to edit the article directly due to the fact that is is semi-protected, but I believe a good source can now be found at: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202421944039 MikkleThePickle (talk) 05:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Bit about Judge Tunis recommending disbarment is incorrect

Judge Tunis did NOT recommend the enhanced disbarment. It was recommended by Sheila Tuma of The Florida Bar. --Nevexst (talk) 06:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

You're right. Thanks. --Maxamegalon2000 06:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible name change?

Question: If Thompson somehow gets disbarred, wouldn't it be inaccurate to call him an "attorney" in this case? Is there gonna be a redirect to Jack Thompson (activist) or similar? -TonicBH (talk) 03:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

The discussion is above. --coldacid (Talk|Contrib) 04:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

fine vs attorny fees phrasing

for the line

On July 10, 2008 Judge Dava Tunis recommended permanent disbarment and a $43,000 dollar fine for Thompson to the Florida Supreme Court.

I believe it was actually a recommendation to impose attorney fees which is not a fine per-se and calling it a fine is confusing. Cat-five - talk 04:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The "Corrected Final Report" PDF, p166, states that these are "Disciplinary costs currently totaling $43,675.35", which is more specific than saying $43,000 and would rather prevent the argument of what are fines and what are fees; these are costs that the referee recommends applying directly to the respondent.Seanscian (talk) 16:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Jace Hall Show

Jack appeared on Episode 8 making fun of himself and his stance on video games, it's an insignificant footnote but probably should be put somewhere on the page in his "relationship with gamers" section. - 202.171.161.250 (talk) 06:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "Linn" :
  • Linn, Mike. "'Grand Theft Auto' comes under fire." ''Montgomery Advertiser'', [[2006-03-13]].
  • Linn, Mike. "'Grand Theft Auto' comes under fire." ''Knight Ridder Tribune Business News'', [[2005-11-22]].
• "Kesten" :
  • Kesten, Lou. "[http://www.businessweek.com/ap/tech/D8O0N5580.htm 'God of War II' takes over PlayStation 2]." ''BusinessWeek'', [[2007-03-21]].
  • Kesten, Lou. "The week in video-game news", ''The Associated Press'', [[August 16]] [[2006]]

DumZiBoT (talk) 00:47, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

September 25th Supreme Court ruling

http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/clerk/disposition/2008/09/07-80.pdf He's gone. Good riddance, too. I'd slap this up myself, but I can't figure out the reference coding for the life of me.--Kazuel (talk) 16:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I've had the page semi'd - page is already a vandalism magnet; I can see it only getting worse from here on due to this. HalfShadow 17:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't this page meet the requirements for "possibly biased"? 24.180.143.221 (talk)Steve Schaper —Preceding undated comment was added at 03:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC).

Talk pages aren't covered by our NPOV policies. (though they are still covered under WP:BLP) EVula // talk // ☯ // 04:07, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

So should we wait until October 25, or not to change the title to Jack Thompson (ex-attorney)? Father Time89 (talk) 05:58, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

The purpose of the (attorney) part is to disambiguate, so unless there is another Jack Thompson who is or was also an attorney, there is no need to change it. --cesarb (talk) 11:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

See #Post-disbarment re-titling of page on this page. EVula // talk // ☯ // 13:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Former attorney?

Since he has now been disbarred should his page be moved to something like Jack Thompson (former attorney)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.192.226.11 (talk) 12:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

See #Post-disbarment re-titling of page on this page. EVula // talk // ☯ // 13:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

RfC: name change

I am putting a request for consensus here about renaming the page to "Jack Thompson (activist)" upon the formalities of his disbarment being (possibly) completed. There was a productive discussion of this above, however I don't believe a clear consensus formed, so I am asking for people to make their views known and hopefully decide what we should call the page. Huadpe (talk) 22:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

General consensus seems to be moving towards a support for the retitling of the page to "Jack Thompson (activist)". Granted this point has been open since the 30th of September, I suppose November 1st will be a decent cut off time. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 01:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Because no change can be made to the article, except by an administrator, until November 26th, discussion remains open! ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 21:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

It would appear nothing is happening with this article for a long while. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 01:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Support

• I am in full agreement with this, contingent upon the disbarrment becoming official. A change before that would be premature, but once he is fully and completely disbarred it would be misleading to leave it at that. I would also be in agreement with a term such as "former attourney" but to simply say "attourney" implies that he is still able to practice as such.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 04:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
• As am I, for it is the best of the possible page name changes. CheeseGamer (talk) 06:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
• As per prior commentary and discussion, in and outside of this discussion, I am in agreement that the a name change to (activist) is in the best interest of this article. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 22:21, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
• Fully support renaming, personally favor (disbarred attorney), but agree (activist) is more neutral.KaintukeeBob (talk) 17:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
• Complete support. After his disbarment in Florida, it's highly unlikely that he would be allowed to make the bar anywhere else (except perhaps Utah). He is quite clearly an ex-attorney, but as there are NPOV concerns about using that or "former attorney" the neutral "activist" tag is much better than the current, and incorrect "attorney" tag currently in the page title. --coldacid (talk|contrib) 16:10, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
• Partial support. He's been disbarred, so "attourney" is inappropriate. I prefer "former attourney" to "activist". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.71.44.188 (talk) 21:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support with the specific nomenclature of "activist". Partial Support with the nomenclature of "disbarred attorney" or "former attorney". I think the former is NPOV, and thus better communication, and the latter could only cause issues and prolong argument. This is in spite my own bias being in favour of inflicting grievous harm upon his person. BobisOnlyBob (talk) 08:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support. He's not an attorney, he's not even allowed to call himself an attorney any more, and most of his notable cases as an attorney have been in the cause of his activism. I'm in favour of (activist) with a preference for (former attorney) but I'd support just using his full common name, as suggested in "Alternative" in the comments & questions below below. --Charax (talk) 20:59, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
• Support Change, although why not call him Jack Thompson (lawyer). While he may not be an Attorney, he graduated from law school (somehow) so he's still technically a lawyer. --Scorp Stanton (talk) 03:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
• I support that he should no longer be known as an (attorney) he has been disbarred by the Floridian BAR and is no longer permitted to practice/represent law within florida. Whether (activist) is the corrent term for him i do not know, i would think the (lobbiest) would be the better definition of his activities, as he is lobbying for all violent video games to be removed from sale in the US and made illegal for anyone including those of legal age to purchase (as per his recent letter directed at president Obama)Weeman com (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

• Oppose. As much as I think Thompson shames the profession, that is what makes him notable. He may be an activist as an attorney as well, but it is what he has done while an attorney that the article is about. IMHO (talk) 00:32, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose. While he is an activist, his notability was primarily based around his use of the attorney title to perform the activism. He practised law, whether it's by representing clients or by writing laws. While he may still do activism outside of being an attorney, his effect is extremely limited and would hardly be notable. --Sigma 7 (talk) 05:02, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Really? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 00:47, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The point is that he wouldn't even be known now but for his exploits as an attorney. IMHO (talk) 02:35, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose as totally unnecessary. He became notable as an attorney. When people retire from their careers or die, do we change their disambig tags to (former practitioner)? No, of course we do not. I honestly do not understand why we would make an exception for Thompson. -Chunky Rice (talk) 01:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Is there an exception being made? As an example, I'd like to point out the article Dwayne Johnson which was formerly titled "The Rock (entertainer)". He changed careers.... Additionally, John Bruce didn't retire from his career, he was removed from it. Additionally, who is to say activism is not a career? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 21:31, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I assume that The Rock was changed due to a common name change, which rendered the need for a disambig unnecessary. And while "Activist" is a reasonable descriptor (unlike "former attorney" or "disbarred attorney"), much of Thompson's notability comes from lawsuits that he's filed, his legal antics and his resulting disbarment. -Chunky Rice (talk) 22:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree. Though in the situation of Dwayne Johnson, we chose to IAR. What I'm saying is that it is technically a fallacy for the title of the page to be attorney when he is not that. While the article, Dwayne Johnson is not under the same circumstances as this article, could it not stand to reason that the title could be changed to activist simply because of the fact that it is the truth since he is no longer an attorney? While he may have gained notoriety as an attorney, he no longer is one. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 18:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

But is that relevant? As I mentioned before, when people retire or die, they are no longer whatever career their disambig tag might say. I mean, take a look at Willie Brown (politician). He's not in politics any more. Should we change it to "former politician?" Or maybe columnist or pundit? I think that would be absurd. He's notable due to his career as a politician. If people are looking for an article about him, that's going to be the tag that gets them pointed in the right direction. If you want to go through and change all of our disambig articles for dead or retired people to "former *blank*" then, that would be fine, but I just don't see why we're just doing it for this one. -Chunky Rice (talk) 19:45, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

In all fairness, I can see your point. I suppose we certainly wouldn't change Bill Clinton's article to "former president" or Eliot Spitzer's article to "former governor", though I do believe that in the case of this article, it warrants a title change to "activist". ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 16:45, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose, per the comments above: his work as an attorney is what has made him notable. If he died tomorrow, he'd be described in obituaries as 'Jack Thompson, a controversial attorney...' or some description to that effect. In fact, regardless of what he does for the rest of his life, chances are he'll always be known as 'that video game lawyer guy'. 'Activist' is an accurate description as well, but I think it's less desirable as it misses the point somewhat: he wasn't just any anti-videogame activist, but a lawyer, and it was his repeated lawsuits in particular that won him attention. Terraxos (talk) 04:48, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose, unless you want to change John Williams (fullback) to John Williams (retired fullback), and make tens of thousands of similar changes throughout Wikipedia. Under current practice, the title indicates what the subject is notable for, not whether he's still actively doing it. Capedia (talk) 21:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose The parenthetical term should describe what made someone famous. Jack Thompson made news as an attorney (though I'm sure there are tons of people that would consider Jack Thompson (jackass) an appropriate name for the article), and while he certainly is an activist, he used his position as an attorney to carry out his activism. Capedia's example with John Williams is very apt; a job change doesn't necessarily warrant a article name change. EVula // talk // ☯ // 18:48, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Comments/questions

Comment I encourage people to read the discussion above since it was a good exposition of the issues at hand. The central question seemed to be whether or not one should still be called an "attorney" if they no longer are admitted to any bar. The argument in favour of the current title centered around his work as an attorney being what makes him notable. The argument against focused around the idea that not being admitted to any bar, he can be called an "attorney" since he can't legally represent another person (which is what the dictionary definition of the term means). Huadpe (talk) 22:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The name change may get more to the point than attorney ever did. His attorney work has made the news mostly because of its activism, and his own cases (not representing others) can also be characterized as activist in nature. Chedorlaomer (talk) 17:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

AlternativeWhile I oppose a name change to another descriptor, there is a third option. Simply title the article with his legal/full name and keep Jack Thompson as a disambiguation. For a comparison, go the article for Lynne Stewart, actually Lynne F. Stewart, an attorney on the list of disbarred attorneys and follow the note that the actress Lynne Marie Stewart has her own article under her full name. IMHO (talk) 23:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

That seems like a good option, though I already hear the Common Name enthusiast swarming in. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② ^talk 02:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

None have piped up to date. Also, the common name policy recognizes there are situations where it is better not to follow it (like all policies). I think this is just such a case. IMHO (talk) 23:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Disbarment Proceedings section

Since its locked these issues need to be fixed, it's still referring to the proceedings as in present tense and that he still has 30 days to clear his name. Obviously since hte 30 days has passed and the court ruled that the crap he filed was insufficient to warrant an appeal he actually has been disbarred so all this information should probably be changed to a past tense now. As well as adding a note regarding the court ruling on his disbarment appeal.

Also, the disbarment is listed as "effective September 25,2008" but was in actuality October 25th due to the 30 days to clear his affairs. This was also mentioned earlier in the article.

Probably should add a link to the FLA Bar's website on Jack Thompson, Kinda like an attorney phone directory thing, which also lists him as disbarred. - 202.171.161.250 (talk) 22:47, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Attorney?

I just realised, surely Jack isn't an attorney anymore now he's been disbarred? If so, shouldn't the page be renamed "Jack Thompson (former attorney)"? Dougie (talk) 14:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

There's an RfC about that just two sections with discussion and statements of support/oppose. Please comment there. IMHO (talk) 18:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Chedorlaomer, yes two sections above this one. The one with rfc in the title. IMHO (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 23:39, 13 February 2009 (UTC).

Link, please, thanks. :) Banaticus (talk) 19:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

It is two sections above. The section is titled "RfC: name change." Chedorlaomer (talk) 22:47, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Republican?

Is there a reliable source that says this guy is a Republican? Dunnsworth (talk) 03:14, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the first one listed. --Maxamegalon2000 04:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

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