Talk:Italian spring offensive

A question

What was wrong with my edit?

Overall, Italian morale did not break and both sides achieved an uneasy stalemate. Eventually, Greek morale and resistance did collapse and the Italians broke through to occupy much of Greece soon after.92.133.176.171 (talk) 22:08, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

the quote seems irrelevant to the subject of this article. Moreover it is actually false. Even after the german invasion Greek resistance against the Italians didn't collapse and the Italians did not break through the Greek front. Which is the reason why the Greek forces is Albania eventually surrendered to the Germans and not the Italians.--Xristar (talk) 00:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Then can you explain how the Italians got into and occupied Greece? As I understand it, the Greeks also surrendered to the Italians as Mussolini insisted that the Greeks also sign an official surrender to the Italians. If the Greeks did sign a surrender treaty to the Italians, then logically, they also surrendered to the Italians. The Germans and the Italians were actually on the same side as Axis partners. It was not two wars, but the same war. When Nazi Germany surrendered, they didn't surrender just to the Americans and leave the British out, or exclude the Russians. Germany surrendered to all the Allies, not pick and choose the ones they preferred to surrender to. AnnalesSchool (talk) 12:37, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

The Italians got into Greece as a result of the German invasion, see Battle of Greece. The fact that Nazi Germany forced the Greek side to capitulate both to Germany and Italy, doesn't mean that Italy finally defeated Greece on battlefield.

Moreover, a discussion should be initiated in the correspodent article: Greco-Italian War, which is generally considered a seperate conflict, in which Greece was victorious repelling the Italian invasion.Alexikoua (talk) 13:13, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

But my point being that the Greek army did not defeat the Italian invasion force. It pushed the Italians back into Albania, but did not defeat the Italian force. It was a stalemate at best, but no "victory". Indeed, there is evidence to suggest that with more time and resources, the Italians would have eventually, broken through the Greek lines. However, the Germans intervened, but NOT at the request of the Italians. Mussolini did NOT want German "assistance", especially in Greece. He did everything he could to keep the Germans out. But the Germans were looking for an easy victory, and since they were in the neighborhood anyway, having defeated the Yugoslavs, they saw Greece as easy pickings.AnnalesSchool (talk) 23:12, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I agree with you in that the Greek army did not actually defeat the Italian, as it failed to actually destroy it or force a favourable cease fire, albeit it came very close to that. The outcome of the fighting in Albania was inconclusive. I disagree on the prospect of Italians ever breaking the Greek lines. Without German intervention Greece would be able to tranfer additional forces to Albania (remember that 6 Greek divisions engaged the Germans), and Greece had a much better track in recent combat that the Italians. Italy was running againt the clock (rememebr the North African front and Italy's capitulation in 1943), it showed inability to achieve any tangible results when attacking, and Albanian terrain and infastructure imposed strict limitations to the size of the force that Italy would ever be able to deploy. The Greco-Italian front was going to become a WW1 style front, similar to the actual Macedonian front of 1916-1918. And with the balance steadily changing in Allies' favour, the Albanian front was mathematically going to become a disaster for Italy. Germany's intervention not only salvaged the situation for Italy, but it actually included very tangible tactical successes. The Germans actually defeated Greek forces in a number of battles and captured units such as the logistics base in Florina which had supported the Greek troops in Albania for months.--Xristar (talk) 01:54, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

References

Recent addition

Please use the talk page to discuss this apparently controversial recent edit. If you want to add this source, I'd recommend citing the exact page, not all 25. --Calthinus (talk) 19:02, 17 July 2018 (UTC)