Talk:Immigrant Song

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Do we have to be told of every Zep song covered by "Missouri MetalCore" band Coalesce? I find these references throughout all of the Zeppelin articles.

Cleanup needed

Much of the historical exposition here is discussed elsewhere and is not strictly relevant to the subject of the song. Adding cleanup template; I may do this myself sometime after Christmas. Hairy Dude 06:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Finally got round to it. Sorry for taking so long :) I've completely removed the "subject matter" section as it was only marginally relevant. Any intelligent person can listen to the song and do research on Viking history and mythology to find out more, if they are that interested. I've left in just enough for the casual, otherwise ignorant reader to get an idea for what the song is about. I've also inserted some much more interesting facts about the song itself (and apparently it was a single too). Oh, and I've also added a couple of references, though more professional / authoritative ones are more than welcome. Hairy Dude 02:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Vocal Range

Though far from a record, but I am just interested. Does anyone know what vocal range does Robert Plant hit in the banshee like Ah-Ah-Ah in the intro? Beatallica 18:08, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Sounds to me like he goes between middle C and the C above it. Not certain of the exact notes (I don't have perfect pitch or a handy instrument), but it's definitely exactly an octave. Hairy Dude 22:45, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Iceland or Greenland

I would think the consecutive lines "We come from the land of the ice and snow, from the midnight sun where the hotsprings blow" would refer to only one place i.e. Iceland... Also I'm pretty sure it (the ah-ah-ah-AAH bit} goes [tonic, perfect fifth, dimished fifth, perfect fifth or D A Ab A] Noodle Fork 01:54, 23 January 2006 (GMT)

• The song was composed after their concert in Reykjavik, Iceland on 22 June 1970. The otherworldly song refers to the Viking settlement of Iceland - We come from the land of the ice and snow, From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah! Ramayan 21:36, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Simple

I was thinking of adding something about the almost idiotic simplicity of the song, particularly the guitar riff. Any thoughts? Noodle Fork 04:01, 24 January 2006 (GMT)

• Unfortunately, yes. Thanks for your contribution, but it does not comply with Wikipedia's NPOV-policy. Therefore, I have removed your contribution. Also, please use a real signature by adding ~~~~at the end of your posts.SoothingR 21:11, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Clearly Iceland

I am absolutely positive that Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song refers to Iceland, based on the following:

We come from the land of the ice and snow

While there certainly is some ice and snow in the northern-most part of Scandinavia, it is very little compared with Iceland, which is covered by vast glaciers (for example Vatnajökull). Also, the reference is to "the land of ice and snow". Iceland, of course, means "land of ice", and was known as "Snæland", or "land of snow" until firmly settled by the Norse.

From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.

This one is a dead give-away: Iceland's summers feature spectacular midnight suns the likes of which cannot be found even in northernmost Norway. As for hot springs, they are fairly common in Iceland, as opposed to their relative rarity in Scandinavia, which is not a particularly geologically active zone. After all, the English word "geyser" is derived from the Geysir geyser in southern Iceland.

Will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore.

This is obviously a reference to the exploration of the North American continent by the Norse settlers of Iceland -- see Leif Eriksson for details.

How soft your fields so green, Can whisper tales of gore,

The first Norse settlers of North America were stunned by the country's fertility, but soon got into conflict with the skraelingjar, their term for the natives -- specifically the Beothuk tribe.

Led Zeppelin held a concert in Reykjavik, Iceland on June 22, 1970 (about 5 months before the release of Led Zeppelin III, which features "Immigrant Song") and were driven around the country to see Geysir, Gullfoss and Vatnajökull. They would have had ample opportunity to see and be inspired by Iceland's midnight sun, geothermal springs and rich history of exploration.

In any case, just think about the name of the song: "Immigrant Song". "Immigrants" would hardly be the right term for the Danish vikings that invaded densely settled Northern England and established the Danelaw -- "conquerors" would be more appropriate. However, the term "immigrant" seems fairly appropriate as a description of the Icelandic settlers that discovered the then largely uninhabited North America.

If you're still in doubt, I encourage you to do a Google search on "immigrant song Iceland" to find further support for my theory.

Palthrow 21:27, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

While I don't disagree with most of the argument above, it should be pointed out that North America was not largely uninhabited at the time the Vikings arrived. The part of North America they were in was sparsely populated compared to other parts of North America, but indeed was settled by the Beothuk--as you mention--who numbered in the thousands. North America as a whole, though, had millions of inhabitants according to most estimates, and the Western Hemisphere may have had as many people as Europe at the time. All of Britain had about 1.5 million people when the Vikings invaded--considerably fewer than North America at the time. Pre-contact estimates for the US and Canada alone start at 2 million and go as high as 14 million. Mexico had an estimated 30 million people pre-contact. There is little reason to believe these population numbers are significantly inflated from the 10th century. But, let's give Plant & Page credit for poetic license. Vikings would probably consider either conquest to be a settlement from their own point of view, and the song is written from that point of view. Most likely, while Iceland may have been an inspiration, the song was talking about the Viking experience as a whole and not any specific campaign of conquest and settlement. 131.107.0.106 01:33, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

This whole Iceland argument seems to be an attempt at original research, which is against Wikipedia's editorial policy. Unless a source can be found, such as a quote by Robert Plant or Jimmy Page, or a prominent analysis by a respected rock critic, it should probably be removed. Llachglin 01:36, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, this may be an incredibly stupid question, and the answer may be easily found somewhere (like, say, the album's own liner notes), but I'm going to ask it anyway: How certain is it that the line is " . . . where the hot springs blow"? Because I always thought it was " . . . where the harsh winds blow," which needs no particular explanation at all. Which is the real lyric, and which is the mondegreen? --Mr. A. 00:56, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Get Smart

So, it is well known that the note progression of the cry at the beginning of the song is the same as that of the theme from the 1960s comedy Get Smart. Has a formal link been established? Ronstew 04:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Kitties?

Should this article have a mention of the Viking Kittens? nmw 07:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

• I would think so, given the trivial nature of so many of the other mentions of it. Talshiarr 12:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The Viking Kitties are a classic. They need a mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.22.190.5 (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I was a bit surprised to see no mention here of the Rathergood.com Viking Kittens animation. There surely must be some usable source enabling it to be added to "Other media". Yngvadottir (talk) 21:48, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Updated (primary) link here, although it's obviously on YT (with half a million views) Martinevans123 (talk) 21:57, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

In searching for a reference to use, I found it hasn't so much disappeared from Rathergood.com as been blocked for copyright reasons. But I found a ref I thought passed muster, although I hope someone has a better one. Yngvadottir (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

I saw that one. Don't see any problem. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:36, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

cover songs

Also, it should be noted that a band named "minimal compact" covered this song on the album "the figure one cuts" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ideom (talk • contribs) 06:23, 25 December 2006 (UTC).

Covers

Are there references available for the cover songs in the specific section? A lot of it is hear-say. Damienzor (talk) 02:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Genre

The song is very hard, is fast and explosive, is heavy metal, like Achilles Last Stand or Whole Lotta Love are hard and fast. I will place as main genre "heavy metal" and second "hard rock". --Eduardofoxx13 (talk) 18:55, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Genres aren't editor's opinions. They should be reliably sourced, just like anything else on Wikipedia. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 18:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This is not heavy metal. The source isn't a very good one as there is no description. Just alot of arbitrary genres that maybe COULD (not necessarily do) apply to the song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.81.33.59 (talk) 06:34, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Phrygian

"in the key of F# Phrygian" — Phrygian isn't a key. This little bit of info should be rephrased. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 19:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Phrygian is a musical mode and it should not be rephrased in the article. Modes are keys, just not tonal. Darthmase (talk) 16:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

"Against the wishes of the band" v. Crowley quote

The article states that the Immigrant Song single was released against the band's wishes; but the book Hammer of the Gods mentions the Crowley quote as though it were directly supervised by Jimmy Page. I was confused; typically when a publisher does something against the wishes of the band, the band disassociates itself from it, and doesn't cooperate; certainly not to the point where the musicians are specifying quotes to be engraved in the dead space at the middle of the vinyl. Possibly the article's phrase "against the band's wishes" is overstating things a bit? I've added a fact tag to "against the band's wishes" in the article; I'd like that point expanded. Did the band go along with it and support the decision at some point, or was this a sore point for the next decade? More details, please, from any editor who's knowledgeable. Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:28, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Cultural Influences

Saw that you took off the following comment, which of course you are at liberty to do so

"Director John Carpenter has said that he based his score to his 1976 film "Assault on Precinct 13" on both Lalo Schifrin's score to Dirty Harry and Led Zeppelin's "Immigrant Song"."

But the source is a) IMDB and b) liner notes from CD of same name and c) well you can sort of hear it. I did not write the IMDB or CD liner notes. Carpenter also talks about it in the DVD commentary. Anyway don’t want to get into Wiki arguments so signing off and suspect that for a page that gets 25 visits a month, this is not the cultural issue of the day.

And here you again....

More from John Carpenter Source: CKK Corporation Liner Notes from Soundtrack of “Assault on Precinct Thirteen”

Interview by Nicholas Saada 07/2003 How did you come up with the particular sounds for the score?

“Assault” had a synthesized score. I hooked up with Dan Wyman of USC. He programmed the synths and I played them

How did you actually score “Assault”? Were there many recording sessions? As I recall, I had three days to record the score

Where did you record the music and which problems did you encounter?

The recording took place in a warehouse in Los Angeles

The opening title, with its haunting beat, has become a landmark: how did you find the theme?

The main title theme is basically a simplification of a Lalo Schifrin line in “Dirty Harry”, which in turn was a kind of rip of “The Immigrant Song” by Led Zeppelin. Being third inline, mine was the simplest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.63.103.209 (talk) 18:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074156/trivia

Hard rock, heavy metal

This is a hard rock/heavy metal song, not only heavy metal. BLack Sabbath is only heavy metal for example. Amb1997 (talk) 16:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

This should not even be heavy metal. It's a hard rock song 108.81.33.59 (talk) 04:06, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Genre change

Y2kcrazyjoker4 believes the genre(s) need changing but refuses to discuss the matter, so here is the discussion. Y2kcrazyjoker4's changes. I am not disputing the references or the changes, just the ideology that genres can be changed on a whim and the lack of consensus. Mlpearc (powwow) 18:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not refusing to discuss, but I'm also going to revert removals, on sight, of information that is cited. Two separate refs from Allmusic call the song "hard rock", while only one of the two actually says "heavy metal". Where has it come from that only "heavy metal" is valid? Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 18:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You might want to review WP:3RR, before doing so. Discussions are much better without threats. Mlpearc (powwow) 18:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

And you might want to review WP:POINT and WP:BOLD. If you're disputing the substantive change, say so. If you're only disputing the process for adding material, take it to the relevant discussion board. The idea that an editor needs to get consensus (read: your approval) to add properly cited information is absurd. — Bdb484 (talk) 19:41, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Wrong John Paul Jones

If you click on John Paul Jones at the bottom it takes you to a page about a naval commander named John Paul Jones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.26.181.226 (talk) 21:53, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks. Now fixed. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:56, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Did Zep get inspired by some other song for this one?

A lot of Zep songs are heavily "influenced" by other bands. I came to this page wondering if there are some similar songs that Zep borrowed for Immigrant song. Anyone? 68.49.26.46 (talk) 20:29, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

It seems the "influences" are explained in the "Composition and lyrics" section. Mlpearc (open channel) 20:36, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

In Popular Culture?

I added info on this (Thor: Ragnarok usage of the song) which was deleted by an anonymous user. I re-added today. Please don't delete, or at least explain why... Arnavlavan (talk) 13:05, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Just refer to below, for I was wondering the same thing. However, since the song really isn't included on the movie's soundtrack/score that was available for sale, this might also be a good reason as to not mention that it was used for the film. Aidensdaddy2k9 (talk) 04:25, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Other media

The following is a closed discussion of Other media. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Time to let cooler heads prevail. The result of the inclusion request was: removed.  — Myk Streja ^(who?) 06:18, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

There are four additions to the Other media section that others believe are "non-notable trivia". I disagree. I would like all who follow this article and talk page to express their opinion of these four articles which can be found here. Do we Keep or do we Remove these four items.

• Keep FlightTime and I have agreed that the sources are good, it's the entries themselves that are causing a disagreement. One of the entries was previously discussed and there seemed to be a consensus to keep that one. I've returned them to the article and hopefully they will stay in place until a consensus is reached. — Myk Streja ^(who?) 06:05, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

• Remove The applicable guideline here is WP:IPC. Despite the heading of the section, this is an in popular culture section. The version suggested here[1] is an indiscriminate collection of appearances in popular culture. Is it every use of the song in other songs/movies/TV shows/books/operas/websites/knock knock jokes/political campaigns/etc.? No (not that that would be a good thing either). So why is the song's use in a "teaser" trailer more relevant that those not listed ("Shrek The Third", for instance)? Yes, we have sources that mention/discuss the uses. That's not particularly meaningful. More meaningful would be a reliable source discussing the song/album/band that has something to say about that uses impact. Did the song chart again as a result? Did someone see that usage and end up prominently featuring the bad in an episode of a notable TV show? Was there notable backlash impacting the politician's ill-advised use? No? It was in the trailer, much like it was in the movies/TV shows/books/etc. we excluded. - SummerPhD^v2.0 15:23, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

I can agree that the inclusion of the song in the two trailers is trivial; the other two are not. Viking Kittens brought renewed interest to the song in 2002 with the original release of the video. Having it in the opening credits of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo in 2011 again raised interest in the song. (I have a citatition for it.) Perhaps it can be agreed to include those two and refuse the two trailers. That would exclude Shrek the Third, and the section won't bloat. — Myk Streja ^(who?) 18:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

• Remove - @Myk Streja: I never agreed to keep, I was the one that removed them, and SummerPhDv2.0's rational nails it - FlightTime (open channel) 15:33, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

FlightTime I never said you agreed to keep them, only that you agreed that the sources were good. I certainly knew that you felt they weren't notable. — Myk Streja ^(who?) 17:25, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

@Myk Streja: No Problem :) - FlightTime (open channel) 18:21, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Time to close

We don't have a consensus here. @FlightTime, Spacecowboy420, and David in DC: would you care to cast a vote. Just so we all know, due to a request by the copyright holders, the soundtrack of Viking Kittens has been removed. The video no longer qualifies. :( I think closing it on July 3, 2017 would be sufficient.  — Myk Streja ^(who?) 15:53, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Why is there a rush to close ? Why does it need closing ? just move on. - FlightTime (open channel) 15:58, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Not sure why I was pinged. Maybe my ping was meant for SummerPhD? David in DC (talk) 16:45, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of Other media. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Viking metal

Is this a valid genre? The current source is: Popoff, Martin (2003). "Immigrant Song". The Top 500 Heavy Metal Songs of All Time. ECW Press. p. 76. ISBN 978-1-55022-530-3. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help) This may be another possible source: [2]. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:29, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Well, the existence of the article kinda makes it valid, but I would question the reliability of the source. That's the opinion of one person. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:39, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

That source is not visible to me in GoogleView, so I'm not sure exactly what Popoff says. The book is obviously "Heavy Metal Songs", which is maybe why the anon IP changed it. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:44, 1 December 2018 (UTC)