Talk:Hyperboloid structure

A fact from Hyperboloid structure appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 February 2006. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that hyperboloid structures in architecture are doubly-curved surfaces that may be formed entirely from a lattice of straight angle-iron and flat iron bars?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2006/February.

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Properties of Hyperbolic Towers

Architecture would be better not as a history class. Anyone who knows decent amounts of architecture and advantages and disadvantages, construction difficulties and eases, structural integrity, etc., would help. I will start it, continue as needed. Inthend9 (talk) 03:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio, but maybe ...

Apparently the text of the article is a copy of http://www.arches.uga.edu/~anikov/intel/abstracts.doc . But since you, User:Elizabeth English appear to be the author of the original text, I believe you might also make an explicit statement about its copyright status and that you agree for it to be used under wikipedia license. I know it seems self-evident if you are the same person who authored the orignal article, but this is better be said. --_Lysy^talk 08:38, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DYK

I have nominated the article on WP:DYK. Please check the question at Template talk:Did you know#February 23 abakharev 00:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great start!

But it seems to not discuss why the two modern Australian buildings use these roofs or what the advantages/disadvantages/engineering challenges are... ++Lar: t/c 01:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did a tour of the Sydney Opera House about a month ago. The guide said that the sails were meant to be parabolic, but when they wind-tunnel tested them, the structure collapsed. As a result they redesigned the whole thing and the sails are actually spherical cut-outs. Not knowing much about this topic, I thought to add a note here. I do not know if this makes the Opera House unsuitable for this article. Yewenyi 01:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Sydney Opera House does not look hyperboloid at all in this picture

In this picture, the curved surfaces look to me as if they have positive Gaussian curvature. Hyperboloid structures of course have negative Gaussian curvature. Am I missing something? Michael Hardy 03:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and why are most of the links to this page user pages? Michael Hardy 03:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To the talk page? Or the article? If the latter, it's because the article is currently in the {{Did you know}} template, which many users include on their pages... Once it rolls off, most of the links will go away too, I expect. Hope that helps. PS, good sleuthing on the Opera House! ++Lar: t/c 03:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh: I've commented out the picture. See Sydney Opera House. Michael Hardy 03:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

...and now I've looked at more pictures of that building and consequently deleted all mention of it from this article. The assertions here are quite obviously incorrect. Michael Hardy 03:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, OK, we're not talking only about ruled surfaces, but also allowing hyperboloids of revolution. In that case, the Sydney Opera House could be a correct example. Michael Hardy 22:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please see my answer below to the 'hyperboloid of two sheets' section. also see http://www.dangermouse.net/povray/landmarks/. and if you want some of utzones original stuff, http://static.flickr.com/4/3987695_e3fe88f531_m.jpg and http://www.chiefengineer.org/images/news/1204feat5.gif Miscreant 22:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

non-Euclidean

I've edited the phrase "non-Euclidean" out of the following sentence:

By applying his analytical skills to the doubly-curved, non-Euclidean surfaces Nikolai Lobachevsky named "hyperbolic," Shukhov derived a family of equations that led to new structural and constructional systems, known as hyperboloids of revolution and hyperbolic paraboloid.

I don't think whoever put that in understood the meaning of the term. The term "non-Euclidean" applies to an entire mathematical theory, not to a specific shape. It's true that there are models of non-Euclidean geometry that are constructed using two-dimensional surfaces embedded in a three-dimensional Euclidean space, but, e.g., we don't describe a sphere as non-Euclidean just because it can be used in this way.--Bcrowell 04:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree -- if they were non-Euclidean, they couldn't exist in the Euclidean (for all practical purposes) space they're built in! I've also corrected further comments: Lobachevskii didn't "disprove" the parallel postulate, and the pseudosphere is the surface of revolution of a tractrix, not a hyperbola, and is not a ruled surface, hence cannot be the shape referred to. Richard Pinch 06:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Sydney Opera House is Hyperboloid of two sheets

Sidney Opera House is Hyperboloid of two sheets, see Fig 2: http://www.nexusjournal.com/Didactics_v5n1-Consiglieri.html

This is wrong. Many People here are wrong about this. The Sydney Opera house IS NOT a Hyperboloid. It was DESIGNED ORIGINALLY as a hyperboloid, but this proved difficult/impossible to build. The final building is pure spherical shells, which proved far easier both for the structural engineers att the time (Arups), and for the construction process (using a sphere meant that the whole could be made as a series of repetitive elements rather than building each being individual.

If you want more proof of this, I will find it for you, but please dont guess. Miscreant 22:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disadvantages

Which are the disadvantages of hyperbolic structures? Why are most lattice towers no hyperbolic structures? (I believe they have a too big surface, which had to be painted)

'Great' engineer Vladimir Shukov

I thought calling someone 'great' in the opening sentance ("first applied by great Russian engineer Vladimir Grigorevich Shukhov (1853-1939)")was a little against the Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy. But when changed it was soon reverted back. I don't want to start a minor edit war so i'll put my thought here instead. I'm not too concerned if other people think its okay, but it seems quite blatant to me. Miscreant 11:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bad intro

The intro should state what a Hyperboloid structure is to begin with, before going into the history of it. Malamockq 18:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to say just that. What is a hyperboloid structure, and why should we care who designed it? 218.225.111.205 07:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use as a mast design on warships

See Greek battleship Limnos for instance —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.118.204 (talk) 21:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which was the USS Idaho (BB-24) with the aft mast before being sold to Greece. 66.232.94.33 (talk) 05:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Identifying hyperbolic structures

Is it always possible to see, if a structure is hyperbolic? For example Pylons of Cadiz are not, although they look very similiar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.46.215.93 (talk) 22:50, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Popular Science

The Feb. 1980 issue of Popular Science had a cover article on hypar structures built using a light frame of steel rebar and strips of fiberglass screen. The screen was then covered with plastic resin ans for some applications a layer of concrete. http://books.google.com/books?id=96m36VQHlE8C&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=popular+science+hypar&source=bl&ots=nIG2oPiNr0&sig=lIohdEQV_Catn_2JdEvqp4gfN8E&hl=en&ei=gm7CTPztBYugsQOSpO3GDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=popular%20science%20hypar&f=false 66.232.94.33 (talk) 05:13, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Shukhov tower video

I question the value of this new link:

The research of the Shukhov's World's First Hyperboloid structure, Prof. Dr. Armin Grün

Up to where it stops playing for me, all I see is some people admiring the tower. Is the narration informative? —Tamfang (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Video of the World's First Hyperboloid structure is a rarity. This video very informative. — Arssenev (talk) 11:07, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Application in Cooling Towers

The article seems to indicate that there are thermodynamic reasons to using the hyperboloid shape. As far as I have been able to determine, the shape is ONLY structural. Perhaps this paragraph could do with some rewording?--Graham Proud (talk) 05:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And what does "installation of fill" mean? —Tamfang (talk) 23:41, 18 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cooling Tower pack (also called "fill") is the material over which the water falls and is evaporated. Essentially it slows the water down, and provides greater surface area for contact between air and water. See the Terminology section in the Cooling Tower article for more information.--Graham Proud (talk) 04:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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