Talk:Hurricane Norbert (1984)

Hurricane Norbert (1984) has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 15, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on September 23, 2011.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Hurricane Norbert fluctuated from a Category 3 to Category 4 three times in two days?

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of 1984 Pacific hurricane season was copied or moved into Hurricane Norbert (1984) with this edit on 9 January 2022. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hurricane Norbert (1984)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 14:00, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as we're both in the WikiCup, I figured I'd do you the favor of reviewing your article.

Right off the bat, I was wondering whether you could think of a more interesting opening sentence? Also, did it strike Baja California as in the province, or the peninsula? If the latter, it should be linked as such. If the former, then link that and avoid linking twice in the lede
- Reworded, it struck the state, BTW. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Something is wrong now. You have the 2nd sentence starting in lower-case. It's a better opener, for sure. However, you link to Baja California and later Baja California Norte, both of which go to the same place. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Where did it form? That'd be good to indicate in the lede.
- Like most EPAC storms, far from land. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Inserted "somewhat". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
  - The track map indicates it was fairly close to some land. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - "Somewhat" doesn't help at all with regards to where it formed. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Changed again. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Much better. I'm just curious, why didn't you include the number given in the newspaper though? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        It user real time data, not post-storm analysis data. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:09, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You failed to mention its final turn to the northwest in the lede
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"resulted in many people being homeless" - try rewording. It's a bit awkward
- Removed "being". YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - That's worse... --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Reworded again. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane
      - It's still just as bad. "resulted in many people homeless across Mexico" doesn't work. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        I reworded it again. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you need to link rain :P
- I don't see why not? YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - YE, "rain" is such a common term. I doubt anybody except a stuffed animal, maybe, would need to know what "rain" is. :P HurricaneFan 25 23:30, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I don't seem any harm in linking it since the wording in this article's reads as "moderate rain" instead of "rain". YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:44, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - You're not supposed to link common words like that. It's not needed. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Alright. :( Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:55, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"weak deep-layer winds" - what is that?
- Wikilinked. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - You didn't... --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I changed it because I did not find a good link for it. Instead, I made the wording less technical. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:55, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - You still don't explain what "weak deep-layer steering currents" is though. It's just there with no context. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Finally found an ok wikilink. YE 14:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
        I don't think that's what the term is referring to. I'd rather you explain it rather than link it, since I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        I tried to make it less complex. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:09, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"accelerated early on September 16, and two hours later Norbert became a hurricane" - two hours from when? From "early on September 16"? That's like saying Earth is near the sun
- Yea, and reworded. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"On September 17, Norbert turned from the west to the north" - the track shows it moving eastward before going north. Later in the sentence it says "Norbert began to turn back to the east", which doesn't seem right at all.
- Err, I got my directions confused :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Norbert was upgraded into a major hurricane" - I don't think "into" is the right preposition
- Switched to "to". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Repeated penetrations were made into the eyewall, and mapped the storm's three-dimensional (3-D) wind field" - the penetrations mapped? That seems a bit odd of a word choice
- Reworded. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - It still implies that the penetrations mapped the wind field. While technically true, surely it was the people on board who mapped the field. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You don't say when it was that Norbert dissipated. The infobox says Sept. 27th
- Added. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - You now link tropical cyclone at the end of the MH. That seems like a bad time to link it. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I think in this case it is warranted, since it is not mention earlier in the section. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane
      - You could (and should) mention it in the first sentence of the article when you mention hurricane. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Wikilinked. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:09, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Described as "big and ugly" by meteorologists, planes near the area were advised to use caution while navigating in the area." - the planes were described as big and ugly? :P Avoid "the area" twice
- Fixed both. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Ignacio India, the Mazatlan government radio station marine operator wrote "warned shipping to exercise extreme caution [from Jalisco to Baja California Sur]"." - I'm not sure who said what, but the quote is a little awkward as written. This could be a time when passive voice would be better off using (and avoiding trying to use that person's name)
- Removed his name. 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
  - The sentence doesn't make sense now. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Reworded. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:55, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Better, but "The Mazatlan government radio station marine operator warned" is pretty longwinded. How much of that is needed? Can't you find a way to make it shorter? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Removed two words. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's pretty much it. Have you tried finding any more info related to Norbert's remnants in AZ? I'll put it on hold for a period of seven days, blah blah blah. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:00, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Found nothing for CA and AZ, other than rain. Ill check the NWS Las Vegas to see if they have anything. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I found nothing. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:39, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - - Err, I add a little about their rarity in the MH. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane

Have you asked David Roth about making a rainfall map for the storm? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It already used in the article :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 14:06, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the map itself. And have you inquired why Arizona is not included in those maps? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The map is not that useful was the rainfall was not extreme. If I had to make a guess, Arizona is not included due to lack of rainfall data. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:09, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?

I redid the storm subsection with all relevant information I could find, and it fits easily within that section. Thus, I don't think we really need this article. Thoughts Hurricanehink, Yellow Evan, Cyclonebiskit? TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 01:34, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hold on, some new information was added here from a place I no longer have access to. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 02:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- There's a couple AP and UPI news articles that I still need to get to the bottom off and access via LexisNexis to maybe fledge it out a little more, but I've added some relevant information from the sources of the season section that does cover more content that's currently in the season section. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:47, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral. Seeing as the season article is only ~28 kb worth of readable text, Norbert is only ~5 kb (excluding lead), and Odile is only ~4 kb (again excluding lead), I think Norbert should only be merged if Odile is. Norbert and Odile together currently make up 3.8 kb worth of readable prose in the main article (or 14% of the season article). If both articles were merged in full without any rewriting, the ~9 kb of readable prose would be 27% of the season article's total readable prose. Not too unreasonable. I'd like to see what the sections would look like if all of the content from both articles were integrated (so making sure that no information in either article was missing from the section). I wouldn't mind seeing three paragraphs for both storms. Given that the season article is already up for GA nom, I believe now would be a good time to merge both. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:08, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]