Talk:History of the Romani people

Inherent Prejudice in parts of this article

"Other theories suggest that the name derives from a form ḍōmba, "man of low caste living by singing and music", attested in Classical Sanskrit.[8] Many also believe that Gypsies are descendants of Dalit because of the word zingaro (ατσίγγανος) (untouchable) that was used to designate gypsies in Greece."

Any theory is simply that. But theories that project an entire group of people by an outside group to be lowly, of low class, untouchable, etc., should be clearly stated as prejudices. The Roma were persecuted and nearly annihilated from Europe. If any Roma person would come forward and say that Roma people are of low caste or untouchable then this quoted paragraph could stand as simply a theory. Please fix this it is offensive. Mcnordine (talk) 09:56, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Should there be a section about why they migrated?

I think that having a section on why they migrated is important to have. The Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life(Vol. 5: Europe. 2nd ed.) (2009) on page 394 says"

"In the 10th century, a Muslim kingdom arose in what is now Afghanistan, with its capital at Ghasni. This was called the Ghaznavid Empire, and in 1017, its ruler, Mahmud Ghazni, launched a series of massive raids into India. He and successive rulers entered India, plundering and massacring the people, carrying off thousands of slaves, and laying waste to the countryside. The Rajputs contested these raids, and many battles took place, during which groups of people were displaced or forced to move out of desolated areas. At some point during the 11th century, the ancestors of the Roma made their way into the Upper Indus Valley from Gurjara and spent some time in this region, whose inhabitants spoke Dardic languages, which had an effect on their own.

The ancestors of the Roma then left India via the Shandur or Baroghil pass and entered Xinjiang in northwestern China. From there they followed the Silk Road, which led them to ancient Persia, then through Southern Georgia to an Armenian-speaking region around the city of Trebizond, and finally to the Byzantine Empire, borrowing words from these linguistic regions as they slowly migrated over many generations. From Constantinople (now Istanbul) they traveled up the Balkans and reached the Romanian Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia by at least the 14th century. Some groups remained in the Balkans below Romania but many moved through Romania, traveling both west and east. By the end of the 15th century, Roma could be found as far west as the British Isles and Spain and as far east as Poland and Lithuania." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shakespeare143 (talk • contribs) 07:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

False, the ancestors of the roma people was already in the byzantine empire at 800 AD-803 AD, you see, long before this modern theory from Mahmud Gazni derived, created by Non-Romani.

Nalanidil (talk) 11:28, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

different origin theory's

There is no 100% origin theory that is accepted for all different Romani groups. Almost every Romani group has its own history of origin. It varies a lot, especially between Christian and Muslim Romani. The various theories of origin were put forward by non-Romani people, some with obscure claims.

A large part of the Romani believe their original home is the Sindh region, especially the Sinti, others say Egypt or Iran, this claim is made by the Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians.

Many Muslim Romani people deny their origin and pretend to be Turks and speak Turkish only instead of Balkan Romani, others only speak the different Languages of Yugoslavia. This is a common knowledge.

Nalanidil (talk) 23:46, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

The encyclopedia content is not based on common knowledge, personal opinion or original research; it is always based in what verifiable, secondary reliable sources say. Netherzone (talk) 00:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

But none of the so called sources claim that all different roma groups believe the same thing about their origin, and as you can read for yourself, there are so many sources and so many different theories about if you google them. Nalanidil (talk) 11:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Linguistic account of Romani migrations in Campbell's Historical Linguistics 1ed

Pages 363-365 of the first edition of Campbell's Historical Linguistics: An Introduction give a linguistic account of the Romani migrations based on an unpublished 1973 manuscript, "Gypsy wanderings and linguistic borrowing", by Terrence Kaufman. In particular, according to Campbell, the manuscript analyzes word borrowings in different Romani dialects to determine the following history for Romani migrations:

• A migration to a Dardic-speaking region of northwest India before 200 BCE
• A migration to and departure from a Persian-speaking region of Iran prior to 900 CE (after which the ancestor of Domari splits off)
• A migration to an Armenian and Ossetic-speaking region of the Caucasus by 1050 CE (after which the ancestor of Lomavren splits off)
• A migration to a Greek-speaking region of Anatolia by 1200 CE
• A migration to a South Slavic-speaking region in the Balkans by 1300 CE (after which different branches of Romani begin to diverge)
• Except for Spanish and Bulgarian branches of the Romani, some period of time spent in a Romanian-speaking area during the 14th century CE

This seems like highly specific information (in particular, hard dates by which specific migrations took place) that isn't currently available on the page. However, Kaufman's manuscript has never been published, and I'm wondering if subsequent work disproves this analysis or if there's a reason this information cannot be added to the page. I don't know if this analysis was kept in more recent editions of Campbell - Google Books doesn't have a preview of the corresponding pages in the 4th edition, though this link suggests that the manuscript remains in the citations list. GlobeGores (talk page | user page) 00:15, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

I found a copy of the 4th edition of Campbell. Here is the timeline it gives:

• A migration to a Dardic-speaking region of northwest India before 200 BCE
• A migration to and departure from a Persian-speaking region of Iran prior to 650 CE (after which the ancestor of Domari splits off)
• According to some scholars, a migration to an area in the Caucasus controlled by the Empire of Trebizond prior to 1040 CE (after which the ancestor of Lomavren splits off). Disputed by other scholars who say the borrowings from Armenian/Georgian/Ossetic could have occurred in eastern and central Anatolia instead.
• A migration to and departure from a Byzantine-controlled region of Anatolia prior to the growth of Ottoman Turkish hegemony from 1265-1328 CE
• A wave of migrations to a South Slavic-speaking region in the Balkans by 1350 CE (after which different branches of Romani begin to diverge)
• A wave of migrations throughout Europe in the 14th and 15th centuries CE

So basically the timelines are tightened up a bit, some questioning has been done of a possible Caucasian migration, the Balkans migrations may have been multiple, and the Romanian aspect is ignored. This talk page has been pretty quiet, so unless someone strongly objects I'm going to add this to the article. GlobeGores (talk page | user page) 01:00, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Roma people

Hello I'm Roma and all the history on my people. Only say or mention us not saying how long we were in India because I feel like back then we still traveled because how could almost whole population leave a country 2601:240:D200:89D0:D42E:6626:42FA:12B3 (talk) 20:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)