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Talk:He Fucked the Girl Out of Me

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Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 talk 14:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: Not sure if this is the best hook, so feel free to make suggestions
Created by Vrxces (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Iostn (talk) 19:18, 18 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 23:46, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone added the tag since I nominated this, despite it being in the lede and for material which is discussed further and cited in the same article. Iostn (talk) 22:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Buidhe: Are your concerns resolved, and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:27, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the citation needed tag is no longer there, so sure (t · c) buidhe 03:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incomprehensible sentence

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'Ann's first client invites her back to his house, and disassociates when the man reveals they are a cross-dresser and have sex, navigating feelings of emptiness afterwards.'

The grammar of this sentence is horrible. Who disassociates from what or whom? What is 'disassociating' supposed to mean, anyway? Who is a cross-dresser? What is the subject of 'have sex'? And - this is more of a content issue - assuming that the client is the one who is described as a cross-dresser, why does that matter and lead to 'disassociating' and 'feelings of emptiness'? 62.73.72.3 (talk) 08:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to take the criticism and fix the pretty rough sentence I wrote, which is obviously grammatically incorrect and does need correction. The game does, in fact, pretty much state what is now in the text of the article and not much else, and I've clarified why the cross-dressing is significant to the protagonist's own feelings. I was writing out the plot whilst playing the game, which I guess isn't as lucid on re-reading it as I hoped. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 11:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, is Sally her friend or her partner? Both words are used in different places in the text.--62.73.72.3 (talk) 08:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's almost certain that what is meant is dissociation. I corrected this mistake, but, as you say, it's very unclear what it is that causes her to dissociate and why the act is objectionable. If it's just the act of exchanging sex for money after feeling pressured into it, then the significance of the client being a cross-dresser is not apparent. If the client's other behavior is responsible, then that isn't explained at all. WP Ludicer (talk) 09:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Replaying this, it's clear by implication the point is thematically very relevant to the game's ideas around shame and gender identity. I am not pointing out the character is a cross-dresser for no reason or to imply any of that is objectionable from an authorial standpoint - it is a complex game about gender and sex work, after all. I've corrected the prose to be much clearer. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 11:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Great! It really is much clearer in this rewording.--62.73.72.3 (talk) 12:18, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gameplay

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The subject is claimed in this article to be a game in the interactive fiction genre, but in normal interactive fiction, as defined in the article about it, the player can affect the events to some extent and is given some choices to make, so that the plot can develop in at least somewhat different ways. Is there anything like that here at all? For instance, can the player choose whether to do sex work or not, whether to break up with Sally or not? (I can't think of other choices that could be made possible by this plot, but there could be more.) The description makes it sound as if there is only one possible sequence of events and you basically only have the choice whether to move the plot forward or not, which you really have with a book, too, since you are free to either turn the page and move on to the next page or not. (Which to me really means - is this even really a game or just a personal memoir that is outwardly shaped and marketed as a 'game' for some reason? OK, I get that RS do call it a game, so this is what the article will have to call it, too, but clearer info about the gameplay would indeed be in order.) --62.73.72.3 (talk) 12:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the sounds of it this game is closer to a visual novel which are a related genre of games that specifically have more limited or no gameplay or choices. So it still fits the commonly held definition of what a game entails, even if the actual 'gameplay' is fairly minimal. Amstrad00 (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree the game is better characterised as a visual novel based on its UI design and relationship to how the player progresses dialog and some limited choices. VNs are pretty plainly games. Part of the challenge with these sort of titles is that RS tend to focus on the plot of narrative games rather than gameplay, given there are very few gameplay mechanics to describe. I'll have a go of rewriting. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 20:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am by no means an expert on gaming, but:
First, is it really normal for visual novels to have no choices? The article about them says: 'typically the majority of player interaction is limited to clicking to keep the text, graphics and sound moving as if they were turning a page (many recent games offer "play" or "fast-forward" toggles that make this unnecessary), while making narrative choices along the way.' This would seem to imply that they are more or less like digital gamebooks. The problem is that the impression that I got from the description is of far less choice than even in the most basic and least interactive gamebooks I've read (and I'm embarrassed to admit that I have read quite a few back in my day - my age is showing).
Also, visual novels are described by the article about them as a type of interactive fiction. And the article about interactive fiction states that it is 'software simulating environments in which players use text commands to control characters and influence the environment'. So the question is whether the user of this software really does control the character and influence the environment - at all or to any significant extent.
Second, as for VNs being games: again, the article says rather noncommittally 'Visual novels are often associated with the medium of video games, but are not always labeled as such themselves.' This seems to imply that they may or may not be viewed as games. Personally, I would agree that as long as the visual novel offers significant choices, it is really a game, but I wouldn't say the same thing about visual novels with absolutely no choices, if there really is such a thing, and I am also very sceptical about cases where there are only minimal, pro forma choices that actually don't affect the gaming session in any significant way. But, again, whatever I think, if RS call it a game, it has to be called that.--62.73.72.3 (talk) 21:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Believe me when I say that there is a decades old conversation around whether or not certain interactive experiences qualify as video games. See Walking simulator for another genre that often gets labeled as not having enough actual interactivity to qualify as an actual game. As for Visual Novels that don't have any choices or interaction, look at Kinetic Novels, which are a sub-category of a sub-category. Also note that here on Wikipedia Interactive Fiction, Visual Novels and Walking Simulators are all classified as sub-genres of Adventure Games. Amstrad00 (talk) 22:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the feedback but am getting a little confused what this discussion is hoping to achieve - are we really considering whether this article should be classified as a video game or not? The game is interactive, offers minor dialogue choices, and has a UI suggestive of a VN. As you've said, RS widely describe this as a game. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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