Talk:Have You Ever?

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Cúchullain ^t/c 20:14, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

---

Have You Ever? → Have You Ever? (Brandy Norwood song) – The S Club 7 song and Brandy song are equally popular, so I believe that disambiguation is needed, even when the S Club 7 song does not have a question mark. --George Ho (talk) 14:49, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

• Support disambiguation page needed -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:13, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose The "?" marks the difference. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 06:49, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Have You Ever?/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 10:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review this soon, though hope to see your response to my message on your talk page in the meantime. --K. Peake 10:05, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Release date is unsourced; probably give a mention of it in the Critical reception section and retitle to Release and reception, plus remove (US)
• Remove the recording date from the infobox since the source does not display it, nor is the date written out in the body
• Only list pop under genres since that is the only one sourced
• Link to the music video in the infobox
• "by American recording artist Brandy Norwood." → "by American recording artist Brandy Norwood from her second studio album, Never Say Never (1998)." since mentioning what album a song is on should be done in the first sentence of its article
• "The ballad was written by Diane Warren, with production handled by" → "The song was written by Diane Warren, while production was handled by"
• Remove the recorded part of the sentence because the notable bits of it will have been moved to the opening sentence in the proposed order
• Mention something about the song being a "pop ballad" and the meaning of its lyrics; follow this with a critical reception sentence
• "on the Billboard Hot 100 following the worldwide number-one" → "on the US Billboard Hot 100, following the worldwide chart-topping"
• "The song also reached" → "The former further reached"
• "Ireland and the United Kingdom." → "Ireland, and the United Kingdom."
• Wikilink music video
• "while watching videos" → "while she watches videos"
• "At the 1999 ceremony, the video was nominated an MTV Video Music Award for Best R&B Video" → "At the 1999 MTV Video Music Awards, the video was nominated for Best R&B Video"
• "It was a great success" → "The visual was a great success"
• "and MTV where it reached fourth and third place respectively." → "and MTV, where it reached fourth and third place, respectively."
• "During the release of the song," → "Following the release of the song,"
• Remove January part about the music awards since that is not relevant, and target 1999 American Music Awards to American Music Awards of 1999
• "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and VH1 Divas 1999." → "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, and VH1 Divas 1999." with the target
• "After the release, "Have You Ever?" always included in the song list" → ""Have You Ever?" was later included frequently on the setlists"
• "and Human World Tour ." → "and the Human World Tour."

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 15:14, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Background and recording

• Wikilink Mariah Carey on the img main text and change her second studio album to Never Say Never
• "which was a sequel to the" → "which served as a sequel to her"
• "other music producers as she" → "other music producers, as she"
• "partly inspired by the idols" → "being partly inspired by her idols"
• "lead producers for the project." → "lead producers for the album." but why is there no citation at the end of the sentence?
• "by Diane Warren and was produced" → "by Diane Warren, while produced"
• "previous tracks for her debut album" → "previous tracks for Brandy"
• "like David Foster"," → "like David Foster,""
• ""My voice" → "Of the song's production, she said, "My voice"
• Warren's quote needs a speech mark to end it
• The music video part should not be here, as the section is irrelevant and that info is in the music video section
• "and especially stuck to" → "and especially focused on"
• "inspired by the background song on the song" → "inspired by the track's background song"
• "find the person who created it." → "find the musician who created it:"
• "He continued:" → "Foster continued:"
• "Norwood arranged and" → "Norwood had arranged and" with the target
• "when the song ended up on" → "when "Have You Ever?" was included on"
• "but it went well. " [7]." → "but it went well."[7]"
• "In an interview with Complex Magazine, she developed:" → "In an interview with Complex, she elaborated on the recording process:" with the target per MOS:LINK2SECT
• The full Complex quote is not backed up and why is there a speech mark in the middle of it?
• "but I tried." [8]" → "but I tried."[8]"
• "In an interview some time later," → "In a separate interview,"
• "country version ."" → "country version."" with the target

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:02, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Composition and lyrics

• Target chorus to Refrain on the audio sample text and can you source any info about the chorus? I did not fail despite the tags, as it is on the text of a sample not prose written out separately.
• ""Have You Ever?" is a" → "Musically, "Have You Ever?" is a"
• "of four minutes and thirty-six seconds." → "with a length of 4:36."
• I cannot view the Musicnotes.com source in full, so I would like to assume good faith in asking: is the info backed up by that source?
• "to the music sheet" → "to the sheet music"
• "Musicnotes.com by Alfred Publishing, the song is a slow tempo and starts from 97 beats per minute." → "Musicnotes.com, the song has a slow tempo of 97 beats per minute." with the wikilink
• "in the key A major and" → "in the key of A major, and" with the target and wikilink
• Should it be F 3 and D 5 or F₃ and D₅?
• TimesDaily should be italicised
• Remove wikilink on guitars
• "Music journalist, Chuck Taylor" → "Music journalist Chuck Taylor" with the targets
• "highlighted Norwood's "restrained song" which had a" → "to be Norwood's "restrained song," which has a"
• "listener understand that she" → "listener understand she"
• "within herself." → "within herself.""
• The citation of Taylor's Billboard review should be invoked here as well as reception because you have quoted parts of it; should be after the lyrics part if it backs that up too though, or otherwise add the different source(s) used for that info
• "In the song, the performer sings" → "In the song's lyrics, Norwood sings"
• "with lyrics like" → "with lyrics such as,"
• "heart to you"." → "heart to you.""

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 02:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Critical reception

• Retitle to Release and reception like I suggested earlier in this review, starting this para with a sentence mentioning the release of the song as a single in the US by Atlantic Records
• "received generally mixed reviews from music critics upon its release." → "was met with generally mixed reviews from music critics."
• "In his single review for Billboard, journalist Chuck Taylor noted that it was" → "In his single review for Billboard, Taylor noted that it is"
• Target R&B to Contemporary R&B
• "He called that the melody" → "He called the song's melody"
• Target hook to Hook (music)
• "was "a prime example" → "is "a prime example"
• "power ballad", which was" → "power ballad," which was"
• Target Usher to Usher (musician)
• "Generally critical with the Never Say Never album itself," → "In a generally negative review of Never Say Never,"
• "wrote, that "working" → "wrote that "[w]orking"
• "on "Have You Ever?" [...] Written by Diane Warren, the ballad" → "on 'Have You Ever?'." She elaborated, writing that "the ballad"
• "the hit parade." → "the hit parade.""

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:03, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Music video

• "The accompanying music video for "Have You Ever?" was" → "An accompanying music video was"
• "who in Los Angeles, California in the week" → "in Los Angeles, California during the week" with the target
• The Clive Davis info should be at this point instead
• "while she gives up before" → "as she gives up before"
• Is all of the sourced info about the video from [16]? If so, then invoke it solely at the end of the para and if not, then add the other source(s).
• "is played with Norwood" → "is played that sees Norwood"
• "These sequences alternate between" → "The sequences alternate between"
• "She sits in" → "Norwood sits in"
• "in different clothes and in different places in" → "wearing different clothes while in different places of"
• Wikilink record label
• I am confused about the Whitney Houston info, do you mean he directed this video for her or another one? Also, remove the speech mark where it is not needed.

He directed the video for her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Williamsburger26 (talk • contribs) 21:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

• "six upcoming videos." → "six then-upcoming videos."
• Wikilink BET
• "The video entered # 21 on" → "The visual entered at number 21 on"
• "released towards the weekend of October 24." → "that was released towards the weekend of October 24, 1998."
• ""Have You Ever?" also on MTV in" → "the music video also entered on MTV at" and name the MTV list
• Add a space between the citation and new sentence
• "top ten on the list" → "top 10 of the list" per MOS:NUM
• "On December 5, 1998," → "On December 5 of that year," with a space after the citation
• ""Have You Ever?" finally reached" → "The visual later reached"
• "on BET on December 19, 1998 and number 14 on VH1" → "on BET's list on December 19, 1998, and number 14 on VH1's list"
• "At the MTV Video Music Awards," → "At the 1999 MTV Video Music Awards," with the wikilink
• "the song nominated in the category "Best R&B Video"." → "the song was nominated in the category of Best R&B Video." with the target
• "to Lauryn Hills' "Doo Wop (That Thing)"." → "to Lauryn Hill's "Doo Wop (That Thing)"." with the wikilinks

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 15:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Commercial performance

• This section should be here, as not only did the song chart in numerous territories but you have wrote about that already in the lead

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 18:57, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Live performances

• Target American Music Awards to American Music Awards of 1999
• "During the evening," → "During that evening,"
• "with an orchestra." → "while accompanied by an orchestra."
• [25] [26] should not have a space inbetween them
• "She also performed" → "Norwood also performed"
• Wikilink The Tonight Show with Jay Leno and remove the extra spacing after the sentence
• "the American gala, Divas Live '99 aired" → "the American gala Divas Live '99 aired,"
• "the opening number which after" → "the opening number, which after"
• What source(s) are really used to back up these performances after the AMAs, allegedly?
• " performance was seen by over 9 million" → "The performance was seen by over nine million"
• "from Jet magazine which described" → "from Jet magazine, with the staff describing"
• "as "enchanting"." → "as "enchanting.""
• "the song in the" → "the song for the"
• Target Double Platinum to Double Platinum (film)
• Wikilink Diana Ross
• "of "Have You Ever?" the song has always" → "of "Have You Ever?", the song has often"
• "on the song list for" → "on the setlists for"
• "TV special, Brandy in Concert: A Special for the Holidays which" → "TV special Brandy in Concert: A Special for the Holidays, which"
• "on November 20, 1999" → "on November 20, 1999,"
• "Never Say Never World Tour and Human World Tour." → "Never Say Never World Tour and the Human World Tour." with the wikilinks
• There is a citation needed tag, but I am not going to fail the article because it is one of only two tags so this does not classify as a quick fail

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 15:55, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Track listings

• Retitle to Track listing because there is only one

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:20, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Credits and personnel

• Wikilink Brandy Norwood
• Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel
• Wikilink Diane Warren
• Wikilink David Foster
• Wikilink Mick Guzauski
• Wikilink Simon Franglen
• Target Michael Thompson to Michael Thompson (guitarist)

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:25, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Charts

Weekly charts

• Good

Year-end charts

• Annual chart performance for "Have You Ever?" → 1999 year-end chart performance for "Have You Ever?"
• Remove targets on RPM

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:09, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Certifications

• Good

Cover versions

• This section should be inbetween the live performances and track listing ones
• American Idol should be italicised
• Target Trenyce Cobbins to Trenyce
• "performed this song on" → "performed the song on"
• Remove target on Dutch
• Wikilink YouTube
• Where is Timberlake and the record deal mentioned?
• "performed Have You Ever on" → "performed "Have You Ever" for"
• Remove target on Irish
• "on their album" → "for their eighth studio album"
• End the sentence with a full-stop
• Remove targets on Filipino
• "for her album Nina Sings The Hits of Diane Warren" → "on her fourth studio album Nina Sings the Hits of Diane Warren."
• "for latest album" → "for her seventh studio album"
• The X Factor UK should be italicised and targeted to The X Factor (British TV series)
• "contestant, Sneziey Msomi covered" → "contestant Sneziey Msomi covered"

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

References

• Copyvio score looks smooth at 27.0%
• Make sure all of these are archived by using the tool
• Accessdates and dates should be consistent with one format throughout
• Ref 3 is an incorrectly formatted version of ref 30
• SoulTracks - Soul Music Biographies, News and Reviews → SoulTracks.com on ref 7
• Target Complex to Complex (magazine) on ref 8
• Why is says in the author of ref 9; is it really part of Karen's full name? Also, remove YouKnowIGotSoul.com from the title and cite that as the sole work/website instead.
• Cite Musicnotes.com as publisher instead for ref 10
• news.google.com → Google News with the wikilink on ref 11, citing as the sole publisher instead
• Cite BBC Music as publisher instead solely for ref 15 and replace the URL with this
• WP:OVERLINK of Billboard on refs 16 and 58, and remove the publisher
• Target Nielsen Business Media, Inc to Nielsen Holdings on ref 17
• news.google.com → Google News on ref 25, citing as the sole publisher instead
• Ref 26 is an unreliable source since that is an unofficial YouTube channel
• Remove the author from ref 27 because that matches the publisher and wikilink Johnson Publishing Company
• Ref 28 should cite the original URL, as well as the correct site for the parameter instead of web.archive.org and add the language parameter
• Remove or replace ref 29 per WP:ALBUMAVOID
• Target Ultratip to Ultratop on ref 32
• Remove the publisher from ref 33
• WP:OVERLINK of RPM on refs 34, 35, 54 and 55 and remove the publisher
• WP:OVERLINK of Billboard on refs 59 and 60
• WP:OVERLINK of Australian Recording Industry Association on ref 61
• Ref 63 is not filled in properly, as it should cite the og URL as well as the correct site
• Cite YouTube as publisher instead for ref 64 with the wikilink
• Remove or replace ref 65 since that violations WP:USERG
• Use the cite web template for ref 66 and cite AllMusic as publisher with the wikilink
• Ditto for ref 67, though no wikilink
• Cite YouTube as publisher instead for refs 68 and 70
• Cite Digital Spy as publisher instead for ref 69 with the wikilink

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:02, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Printed sources

• Good

External links

• Remove the music video from here

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed, that was a very long review; good luck! --K. Peake 08:52, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

  Williamsburger26 I was thinking about failing since it has been so long but not only remembered the note saying you may not reply until the next week but that you had fixed numerous issues; however, when will you be able to implement all of the suggested changes by most likely? --K. Peake 12:02, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I half way finish to fixed these issues but I caught up with schoolwork. --Williamsburger26 (talk) 15:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 Oh that is understandable, try to fix the remaining ones this week. --K. Peake 16:29, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: So i tried fixed most of the issues in the article.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 16:06, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 It has been improved somewhat before, but even looking at my first set of points I can still see errors you have not fixed. Take the unsourced release date (not written specifically in the body nor sourced there), genres are still not sourced that you mention, record part of sentence has not been removed, pop ballad has not been referenced, etc. Maybe you should have another look through at my comments above to make sure you have covered them properly? --K. Peake 19:39, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: There few sources for the genre which R&B and neo soul.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 19:56, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 You have not wrote that out at all in the body though, plus there are a good number of other issues remaining. --K. Peake 20:07, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Sorry Kyle Peake I have asked for a second opinion because I am to be confident to improve this article.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 20:13, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 So you want me to have another look through now? --K. Peake 17:55, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Yes--Williamsburger26 (talk) 04:23, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 You should not be using discogs, as it is an unreliable source. Also, the release date is still not written out and you haven't removed the "and was recorded by Norwood." part. These are the issues I noticed by just looking at my initial comments. --K. Peake 18:06, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Kyle Peake just removed the "and was recorded by Norwood." part and there's some sites maybe unreliable sources shows the song released on September 29, 1998. --Williamsburger26 (talk) 18:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 Maybe just remove the release date totally if you cannot source one; it can still pass for a GA? Also, you cannot keep soul as a genre if it is unsourced and I will look at the article further once you've made the fixes. --K. Peake 19:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done--Williamsburger26 (talk) 19:47, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 What is up with the comp section now because it says "Musically, "Have You Ever?" is a length of 4:36. According to the sheet music published on Musicnotes.com by Alfred Publishing, the song is a slow tempo with pop and R&B that starts from 97 beats per minute." which does not really make sense for the most part. Maybe think before you finish edit parts of the article, no offence? --K. Peake 09:08, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:, None taken, already removed it.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 14:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 No, I did not mean to do that. You can keep the part about the tempo and beats per minute, just the sentences do mostly not make sense. --K. Peake 15:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Got it, already fixed it.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 15:08, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 You still have 1998 as a release year even though that is unsourced, plus why is there no mention of the song's meaning in the lead, why is there speech marks for the music video sentence's beginning and why have you kept the after the release part in prose? --K. Peake 15:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I think this song is pop ballad according to the album booklet.--Williamsburger26 (talk) 04:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Williamsburger26 Make sure that is sourced in the body and pop is listed as a genre in the infobox then, but I recommend reading through my comments again to be certain you have not missed anything. --K. Peake 08:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Sorry but I am going to have to ✗ Fail this, as I have kept this article on hold for way too long and the changes have not been made. I have gone over the comments specifically with you at points and they've still not been sorted too; however, this is not me condemning you as an editor by any means and I may be willing to review this again if you open another GAN for it. --K. Peake 12:45, 14 December 2020 (UTC)