Talk:Grover Cleveland

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why is Grover Cleveland listed as the 22nd AND 24th President? It doesn't make sense for him to be counted twice!

A1: It's how the U.S. government has always done it. We can only use verifiable material from reliable sources, and all of the sources list Cleveland as the 22nd and 24th President. It's not up to us to develop new numbering systems.

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Restrictive / Non-Restrictive Clause

[...] the only president in American history to serve two nonconsecutive terms in office from 1885 to 1889 and from 1893 to 1897.

A COMMA (or a colon) SHOULD BE INSERTED - AFTER THE WORD "OFFICE." Otherwise, the sentence appears to be claiming that Cleveland was the only president to serve two nonconsecutive terms IN THOSE PERIODS OF TIME.

Andrew Johnson

I notice that the article says that Cleveland “was one of two Democrat presidents, followed by Woodrow Wilson in 1912, in an era when Republicans dominated the presidency between 1861 and 1933”. Why doesn’t Andrew Johnson count? He was registered with the Democratic Party while he was president. Opportunity Rover (talk) 21:48, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Johnson was elected with the National Union Party. Dimadick (talk) 00:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True, but he was still a registered Democrat, as he had been for decades. When he was President, he was seen as a Democrat president. He fought the Republicans, which culminated in the Republican Congress impeaching him. Also, he tried to get nominated by the Democratic Party for reelection.

I suppose from a certain perspective, the sentence in the article is true, but it seems misleading. Opportunity Rover (talk) 01:26, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think they had party registration then, that's more of a 20th-century concept. He did spend most of his life in that party, though. If you want to be precise, though, you could change the "1861" to "1869" and the sentence works. --Coemgenus (talk) 01:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I should have used a different word. Changing the year seems like a good idea. I’ll do that. Opportunity Rover (talk) 03:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or was he two of three Democrat presidents? I'll see myself out. Bremps... 23:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump

Someone has added a note to say Trump should only be added when all sources have confirmed his victory, but surely he shouldn't be added until he is actually sworn in. Until then he is only president-elect and hasn't started serving a second term. I suppose until then you could say he was the second person to have two non-consecutive election victories. Mark and inwardly digest (talk) 10:26, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, although I question whether it is necessary for the Grover Cleveland page to mention Donald Trump at all. 2401:7000:CAE9:1A00:5558:EA88:D66A:E112 (talk) 10:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point - I guess as long as it says first (as opposed to only) to serve non-consecutive terms, that should be enough. Mark and inwardly digest (talk) 11:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the top post. For now it could just say "so far" he's the 1st and only person to serve..... such and such. (in 2 months to inauguration anything could happen to Trump) This is the shortest way of saying it CNNsOneViewer (talk) CNNsOneViewer (talk) 14:08, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump's second term as president should definitely be mentioned, but I agree with @CNNsOneViewer that it's okay to leave it until he's officially inaugurated. Twinbros04 (talk) 16:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote b currently reads "Cleveland was the only president to earn this distinction". That should be changed to "Cleveland is so far the only president to earn this distinction". 2401:7000:CAE9:1A00:5558:EA88:D66A:E112 (talk) 17:25, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now that two people (Cleveland and Trump) have been elected to non-consecutive terms, it's not nearly as big a deal. It used to be clearly part of Cleveland's notability, and so we had to mention it in the lead paragraphs, even though it is basically just the answer to a trivia question. ("Which president was elected to two non-consecutive terms?")

But now, it's just blah. I suggest that we don't mention, in the lead paragraphs, either Cleveland or Trump having this "distinction". Save us some edit warring, anyway. Bruce leverett (talk) 21:31, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. It has been almost 150 years since Cleveland and in both cases it was luck that created events that swayed the public to reelect both Cleveland and Trump.

The first reason alone is enough to note the achievement. Nsinger998 (talk) 07:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's still pretty rare for a POTUS to serve nonconsecutive terms, so it's still important to note that Cleveland did so. 203.211.72.76 (talk) 23:59, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

alleged voice recording

Read a transcription of William Jennings Bryan's Cross of Gold speech, and you'll hear that this recording is clearly of Bryan, not Cleveland.

My friends, we declare that this nation is able to legislate for its own people on every question, without waiting for the aid or consent of any other nation on earth; and upon that issue we expect to carry every State in the Union. I shall not slander the inhabitants of the fair State of Massachusetts nor the inhabitants of the State of New York by saying that, when they are confronted with the proposition, they will declare that this nation is not able to attend to its own business. It is the issue of 1776 over again. Our ancestors, when but three millions in number, had the courage to declare their political independence of every other nation; shall we, their descendants, when we have grown to seventy millions, declare that we are less independent than our forefathers? No, my friends, that will never be the verdict of our people.

That is from the Cross of Gold speech. There is not the slightest possibility that it's of Cleveland. 68.172.38.134 (talk) 05:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Lynn452 (talk) 22:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because i want to fix a incorrect line in the words

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. FifthFive (talk) 05:01, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grover Cleveland was not the 24th president

It is impossible to be both the 22nd and 24th president. Finnigami (talk) 06:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this an attempt to continue the closed discussion at Talk:List of presidents of the United States/Archive 17#Presidential Numbering: Biden is NOT the 46th President of the United States? Bruce leverett (talk) 14:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Except it's totally possible. Cleveland did it by getting elected to non-consecutive terms. 2401:7000:CA83:7400:E0FA:CE53:8C3B:60BA (talk) 12:30, 23 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]