Talk:Martin Amis

Early life

I'm not sure that we need a picture of Amis' dad on Martin's wikipedia page. Amis Sr is linked to on the page. A picture of young Amis perhaps with his friend Hitchens would be good if copyright issues will be allowed. Farrtj (talk) 04:25, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Untitled

The last entry on the MEN story was somewhat economical with the actuality.

By those same figures- released as ploy by a UNITE union rep facing hundreds of non-teaching staff job-losses in the wake of the merger between two Manchester Universities - this paper indirectly showed that Amis really brought in a staggering extra £112,000+ clear profit to the University of Manchester. This figure is the amount of money above that which previous post-holders brought in as his name and reputation had added an extra 50 students to the course at £3000 each.

No mention is made of the extremist politics, the lunatic fringe party membership (or YABs recent anti-semitic remarks) of his 'critics', how come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.2.2 (talk) 11:57, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

What is with that photo of Amis? Vandalism?- InvisibleSun 8/28/05

Glad to see the photo replaced. InvisibleSun 15:45, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Style

This article reads more like an Amis fanzine than an encyclopaedia entry. Irrespective of whether it has received a B class rating, paragraphs two and three have no place in a short introduction and show no thought for the kind of information potential readers will be looking for. Plain English might not be appropriate when reviewing Amis's work nor evident in his prose but it should be mandatory pratice in Wikipedia. For reference, have a look at how other editors have written about different prominent individuals, say Dickens, Darwin, Austen etc. 87.80.9.63 (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2008 (UTC) Yes, I agree with all above. 76.26.211.102 (talk) 00:48, 7 October 2009 (UTC)Ellerslie. October 2009.

Deletions

Could the anons say what's wrong with the sentences they keep deleting, why they're deleting that he influenced Will Self, and why they keep changing the quote: "terrible compulsive vividness in his style ..." SlimVirgin ^(talk) 19:26, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Have deleted the word 'devastating' re: critique of Amis' views on Islam. It was shockingly POV, virtually siding with the anti-Amis party. I know it might not be correct Wikipedia etiquette to do so uninvited, but it seemed utterly out of place in this article. 80.192.1.95 22:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)L-Mac

"The book provoked a literary controversy for his naïve and dilettante approach to the material". POV, surely? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Surfarosa (talk • contribs) .

Agreed. I added "ostensibly" before it. --zenohockey 21:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Why was this altogether removed? Someone's been deleting with no explanation or basis. 195.134.68.6 10:10, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

This one reads like mart's been writing it himself, or has his publicist editing, and re-editing it, there are titans of writing here at wikipedia who get a much less adulatory treatment that this guy, some just a few paragraphs. Yet this guy somehow manages to be (self) promoted in an encyclopedia, what a huge marketing ploy, yet myself, and other "anons" will not let this stand because this is a wiki project and we should have our say over mart's publicist. Hence my recent deletion of london fields and money being some of britain's most famous published fiction. Source this if you can, which of course you can't because I can here and now come up with a list of other more famous books and authors, that could feel up tens of archived comments pages. Also source how he's supposed to have influence zadie smith, and above all define the "end others" which I ve also removed because I ve read british fiction extensively and I can't see a whole lot of people, hardly any rather, being influenced by mart. The rest of the article need some serious toning down, but I got better things to do, than waste my time on this hack. I just can't tolerate a vastly superior writer such as tim parks getting a couple of sentences in his wiki, and this guy getting some bozos arguing over whether his picture should look straight up, down left, right, center or, excuse my french, up his arse. As far as I am concerned the penis picture that graced the space for mart's picture before it was removed and considered as vandalism, should have sufficed in this article. But I am not trying to force my view down anybody's throat, on the contrary, this publicists note which is what this article has become does. And that's what I find unacceptable. Thanks. 195.134.69.139 06:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

To be fair, 195.134.69.139, if you can't tolerate the smallness of Tim Parks's article, then expand it. But not by saying he's a vastly superior writer than Amis, which would be POV... You are entitled to dislike Amis, but this should not be a reason in itself for editing the article.

I have reinstated the point about influencing Will Self and Zadie Smith and have provided sources (which didn't take much googling to find). You can read the linked articles in full, or if you prefer I can quote them here to clarify. Self says: "I've been at pains to deny Martin Amis's influence, but I do think it's there." Smith says: "I like Martin Amis very much, and White Teeth owes a huge debt to London Fields in every direction." At the same time I have removed the mention of Joyce influencing Amis. He has stated the influence of Bellow and Nabokov, but the only comments by Amis on Joyce I can recall were not complimentary. John Self 16:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Marriage

The sentence "He lives and writes in London and Uruguay and is married, for the second time, to the writer Isabel Fonseca." is ambiguous; does it mean that he has married Isabel twice or that Isabel is his second wife? Elf | Talk 17:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Book title conventions

Book titles should generally be italised, not boldened. Skinnyweed 02:41, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Image

If people don't like the image on the left of the page, we should find one where he isn't looking to the right. Placing an image so that the person is looking away from the text is a no-no, because the reader's eye is known to follow the direction of faces. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 14:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter all that much... people are here to read the article, so they're going to. I don't think anyone'll be put off by the fact that he's looking to the right... Barbara Osgood 23:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the picture does justice to both the article and to Mart. To the article because at it's current condition is best looked away from, and to Mart becauses it perfectly demonstrates his evasiveness and vain glory. So I personally don't have a problem with that. And considering that the last picture we had was what vandal kept editing in, a picture of a rather miniscule and flacid penis, this one does far more justice to him as it undoubtedly bears much closer resemblance to Mr. Amis on a physical, facial that is, level. Which one of the two is closer to the truth on a symbolic level is however very debatable. In any case it won't be very easy to find a frontal picture of the writer, as most of his publicity shots are very artsy stuff, profoundly so. So this one suffices. 195.134.68.6 10:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

POVS, Publicity Statements, and Biases.

"Although the book did not sell as well as expected, it did receive decent acclaim in the literary press."

This is as pov as it gets, because the book DID NOT, receive decent acclaim, nor in the literary press, nor in the wider press, it got very negative reviews, too bad there's not a "rotten tomatoes" style website to collect literary reviews, but the book got trashed many times around for it's stale prose, for being unimaginative etc. etc.

Even the way it's mentioned here that some lesser writer was solely responsible for the negative reaction is very misleading.

"He is the author of some of Britain's best-known modern literature,"

This also is very pov, has a survey been conducted, or are we getting this by the publicist's office as well and Mart's uruguayian internet provider, most of his books at amazon have got the lowest number of reviews and sales figures amongst british writers, from what I have read he also ranks amongst the least translated british authors abroad, with minimal reception in foreign countries.

"He also wrote the screenplay for the film Saturn 3."

Why are the successes made to look grandiosed and the failures, such as the reception to the film not even mentioned? "The film was widely panned by reviewers as derivative, mediocre and lacking in suspense." According to the wikipedia page on the film. Looks like mart's been a bad boy and has been editing things out...

"Time's arrow drew notice both for its unusual technique — time runs backwards during the entire novel, down to the actual dialogue being spoken backwards — as well as for its topic."

Another misleading statement, this unusual technique, had already been used very successfully too, by dame muriel spark in the driver's seat, and kurt vonegaut in slaughterhouse five amonst others.

"In 2002, Amis published Koba the Dread, a book about the crimes of Stalinism and the intellectual left."

First of all the intellectual left has got to go, of course in a post cold war era with most of these issues already covered from every possible side by historians and the press, Amis out of place book has a distinct unpleasant smell of propaganda and a closet attack on the intellectual left at large who for some very peculiar reason have to apologise for the behaviours of Stalin, while the conservative Amis is of course completely unrelated and unapologetic to the various capitalist genocides and massacres, courtesy of the U.S. and British Imperialism. Consequently, the only crimes commited by the intellectual left are those that Mart in a typical sly way tries to assign to them, by virtue of association, communism=Stalin=left intellectuals, but of course he wouldn't hold arch capitalist conservative and jewish propagandist Saul Bellow responsible for the various genocides fo the israelis, or the U.S. at large in places such as Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, Brazil, Venezuala... But of course say Sartre is responsible for crimes... Is this more laughable than pathetic you be the judge... Moreover this book was time again ridiculed for Amis lack of scholarship and appropriate knowledge of the subject area.

Why is there no mention that all his books since the information have consistently failed to sell well despite the perenial press coverage, and the agressive marketing campaigns, and have for the most part received negative, or even downright dismissive or ridiculing reviews by literary critics and the general public?

I ll let these comments stand with no further alterations, and as soon as this has rippened I ll move on to edit accordingly. Hopefully, mart's manager the coyte, the one footed rabbit or whatever his animal monicker is won't expurgate this page again.

195.134.68.6 09:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

User 195.134.68.6: Some of your points are valid but others would result in as much POV as the ones you complain of.

1. I would agree that to say Yellow Dog received 'decent acclaim' in the literary press is misleading. However it did not receive uniformly negative reviews. For example The Guardian and Observer raved about it. The Telegraph recommended it as one of the best summer paperbacks of 2004. There were also, as you point out, several highly negative reviews and also some lukewarm ones. It might be better and more balanced then to say "The book did not sell as well as expected and received mixed reviews, some considering Amis a spent force, with others hailing the book as a return to form." Having said that, I have no idea how it sold or what the expectations for its sales were, so I'm unsure about the accuracy of the first half of that sentence.

2. I have no idea why Saturn 3 is mentioned at all, with or without critical response, as it's hardly a significant part of his renown. However the films that were made from The Rachel Papers and Dead Babies are both accurately listed as commercial failures.

3. Time's Arrow was indeed noted for its unusual technique, so it would be wrong to remove that. Of course the backward narrative has been used before, but it's still far from usual: hence 'unusual.' By the way the examples you give are bad ones. Slaughterhouse-Five uses a backward narrative only for a small part of the whole, and The Driver's Seat doesn't go backwards at all. Spark did flit about temporally in other novels, such as The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie and The Girls of Slender Means, but never recounting an entire novel in reverse time as with Time's Arrow. The comparison is invalid.

4. Koba the Dread. The opening description "about Stalin's crimes and the intellectual left" is simply an accurate description of the subject matter of the book. The book (as you rightly say) was also criticised on publication, and that has been addressed in the body of the article. The rest of your comments on this are irrelevant and uninformed: if you have read the book, or even the blurb, you would know that Amis does not seek to hold the intellectual left 'responsible' for Stalin's crimes. In any event this is not the place to discuss our opinions on the book or on Amis. It is supposed to be a factual encyclopaedia entry. Admittedly your description of Amis as 'conservative' and as supportive of US foreign policy did provide me with some temporary amusement.

5. The reason why there is no mention of poor sales and critical mauling for 'all his books since The Information' is that it would not be accurate. You can visit The Martin Amis Web (linked in the main article) for reviews and you will see that reviews of Night Train (1997) were mixed with some highly positive and others highly negative, and that reviews of Experience (2000) were mostly positive, as they were too for Heavy Water (1998). Yellow Dog (2003) and Koba the Dread (2002) we have already discussed. I have no information on the sales of any of his books - if you do, please let us know - though Experience and Night Train at least have gone through several printings so must have sold reasonably well.

6. Your suggestion that Andrew Wylie or Amis himself are editing this page is laughable. Do you really think they've as little to do as you and I have?

Finally, not in relation to 195.134.68.6's comments but in relation to the main article: it is wrong to suggest that the spat with Julian Barnes may have been the inspiration for The Information. As mentioned in the article, Amis fell out with Barnes after dumping Barnes's wife Pat Kavanagh as his agent, and taking up with Andrew Wylie. This was for the sale of The Information. So it can't have inspired the book as it was already written at that point. John Self 14:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

John Self,

I ll go along with your numbering of the points I 've made, although you do miss quite a few.

1. If your sources of the reviews are, as you mention further down, "the martin amis web", then I am sure them boys there miss out on quite a few of the negative ones. That said, amazon is always a good way to gauge a books sales, have a look then.

2. Of course Saturn Five should be mentioned as part of Mart's oeuvre (sp?), why shouldn't it, because it was a huge flop? Because I bet the stuff writers of almost any sitcom currently on air in the states could come up with far superior material.

3. Granted the term unusual, does not per se signify original, but it does have that connotation too. I ll have to get my muriel spark books out, but I was pretty sure driver's seat used the same ploy, maybe I am mistaken, but she did use it elsewhere.

4. I ll admit to only reading the blurb and browsing through, you can't hold me responsible after reading left right and center (literally) of the political literature on the issues to not take mart's "scholarly" approach to read it end to end. The opening description that you quote, associates, even doing so unwittingly, the intellectual left and Stalin's "crimes", and of course it's not the place to discuss the merits of the book. Glad to be amusing to you though, but Mart beside whatever liberal/leftift/whatever facade is an arch conservative with an agenda, besides you gotta be a moron to take up Stalin's ad nauseum documented crimes otherwise, or out to serve your masters which is what Mart's doing, so keep laughing, I am sure Mart's doing so too, at your expense.

5. I appreciate it's hard to gauge how well a book sells, surely though you can't expect me to believe that a few thousands of books sold, which is what a few editions is, or "the martin amis web" are good indicators in any way.

6. Glad you are laughing at my suggestion that willie (maybe the penis pic removed was his, it's something we should have considered before removing it for vandalism) or Mart are editing this page. You seem pretty intelligent, so I guess you do have other better things currently going in your life, and as you can see, I am not exactly an active member of wikipedia, taking two months to reply. And I am very sure willie nillie and mart, don't give a toss and are so way above editing to their favour, and their marketing schemes, what is probably the internets foremost outlet for encyclepedic knowledge, that is wikipedia. Please don't take offence here, but wake up and smell the coffee that's what publicists actually do, it's their job. I don't currently have the link but there was a very interesting article on the ny time I think recounting how the vast majority of writers are actually writing and rewriting positive reviews of their books at amazon.com, and dissing their perceived competion.

Now let's check some of them paraguayan ip addresses, right Mart? 195.134.69.139 06:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, 195.134.69.139. Actually you took just two days to reply; it was me who took two months.

The reason I didn't address all your points was because, as I intimated in my opening comment, I agree with some of them. For example that it's POV to say "He is the author of some of Britain's best-known modern literature." Having said that, I do think there needs to be some statement of acknowledgement that he's among the better known literary novelists in the UK, particularly so when you consider that his public profile almost certainly outstrips his sales. For example, he almost certainly doesn't sell as well as contemporaries like Ian McEwan or William Boyd, but he seems to maintain an equal or better level of renown. That must be worth mentioning.

I believe The Martin Amis Web does in fact include positive and negative reviews, but that's not really the point. I simply wanted to clarify that Yellow Dog did receive some positive reviews (and acknowledged that it also got many negative reviews). In other words, although I agreed it was misleading to say "it received decent acclaim in the literary press," it would be equally misleading to suggest it didn't receive any acclaim. Anyway I have changed the comment in the main article to something which I think is more balanced.

Re Koba the Dread - we've agreed it's not a very good book, and I say that as someone who ploughed through it. That was also widely accepted in the press and is reflected in the main article. The book however is about the intellectual left's response to Stalin's crimes, which is why the description applied to it remains valid. If the book did claim the intellectual left was responsible for Stalin's crimes, then it would be accurate to say that it did in the description in the main article. In other words just because you disagree with a statement, doesn't mean it should be reported inaccurately. I don't know what 'masters' you say Amis is serving by the way. Remember the policy about making comments on living people.

Sales we are agreed are impossible to comment on without access to Nielsen Bookscan or official sales figures or similar.

I dunno, Little Mart just doesn't strike me as the internet-surfing type. (Does he really live in Paraguay, even some of the time, by the way?) And I don't think he particularly cares what we think of him: he's made his money, let's face it. I doubt Wikipedia has any effect on his sales one way or the other anyway. John Self 16:34, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

John,

Thanks for the well balanced reply, I think we are reaching a concensus here towards a more representative and less adulatory article, in the high standards of wikipedia.

I agree that his level of reknown and public visibility, whether deserved or not, whether a product of good prose or relentless marketing and good connections, should be aknowledged in the article, because it is a fact. That is a very distinct thing from claiming he is one of "british masters" currently at work or any other adulatory similar claim made during the evolution of this article. Although it is indeed hard for any writer to be aknowled in his days as a literary giant of sorts, some have been, with a more or less united opinion favouring that view. This is not the case with Amis who gets considerable and constant backing from certain quarters as a sui generis, but who also has very considerable critisism against him by several others who do not just view him as not so good, but a bad or non artist per se.

Point well take with the yellow dog book as well as with Koba the Dread. I am aware of wikipedia policy towards living persons. Although it's a bit baffling to me why we should be more careful on our comments towards them, who in any case have a public persona and for whom there's ample sources of news and media for the reader to form an opinion, whereas deceised persons are the ones we should be more sensitive towards as they are neither here to defend their legacy, and the sources of information fade with time. Regardless of that, I of course adhere to this rule as I wish to partake in the wikipedia project. I will not comment any further on which people stand to benefit from a prolonged and sustained association of the intellectual left and those of progressive political opinions with Stalin's deeds, it was however worth noting in the talk pages (which for me are sometimes far more illuminating for an article in wikipedia) that a dated, unscholarly account of such an event, seems highly suspicious to me. Ideological wars are waged everyday so it's worth taking a moment to ponder why would one choose to wage them from on side or the other according to their views and backing they get.

I wasn't aware of the Nielsen bookscan, so I ll look this up.

Lol, it's actually Uruguay, my bad, I repeated this incorrectly, and yes according to an interview of his I read he does live there quite a few months of the year, as the wifey is from there. Like I said for a person so obviously concious of his public persona, I wouldn't put it past him to try to put his views across the internet, as so many writers do. Like I also said next time you go to amazon for a book review bare in mind that some of these guys might be bashing each other back and forth for the benefit of the unaware reader... lol... the internet age... it's been documented. 62.74.5.232 11:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Your IP address has changed so I'll just have to refer to you as 'Mr X'. (I wish I knew how to indent text by the way to make these exchanges clearer to distinguish.) I think the policy on living persons is purely from the point of view of Wikipedia protecting itself from legal action. Because it's an encyclopaedia, things presented here (can) have the authority of fact, so if it's not accurate and even defamatory then they could be in difficulties libel-wise. Of course most public figures wouldn't care but then some are highly litigious.

Yes I know all about the abuse of Amazon, and I've been in the vanguard of trying to nobble certain self-published authors' attempts to promote their dubious wares that way. Generally when I see a five-star Amazon review, I click on "see my other reviews" and if the reviewer has only posted one, I just presume it's by the author or a representative and ignore it...

By the way you may have missed my comments above in the 'Deleted' section. I have reinstated a couple of names with sources. Over and out. John Self 13:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Apologies if this is not the correct place to notate errors but the author has made a mistake when stating ;

"Born in Oxford, England, Martin was the middle of three children, with an older brother, Philip, and a younger sister, Sally. He attended a number of different schools in the 1950s and 1960s including Swansea Grammar School. The acclaim that followed Kingsley's first novel Lucky Jim sent the Amises to Princeton, New Jersey, where Kingsley lectured. This was Amis's introduction to the United States."

This is fact refers to Kingsley Amis ,Martins father. Martin Amis went to the city of london school. The above comes from Kingsley Amis's biography.

HTH

Jonathan Chapman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.57.246.11 (talk) 10:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

A nit rims ma

http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/ Pliny 23:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

For the ignorant:

What is the correct pronunciation of this author's last name? Can somebody spell it out phonetically? Alca911 18:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)Alca911

82.195.186.220 18:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC) Hi, Another query for the ignorant. Greg (author?)- why is Martin Amis classified as an English Writer despite being born and at least partly educated in Wales ? Is this his own stated preference? Any clarification greatly appreciated ? Thanks James (spincity33@hotmail.com) 18:56 5th January 2007 82.195.186.220 18:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know phonetic spelling, but try this

"A" - say it like "ai" in "Aim"

"m" - like "m" in "Aim"

so: so far we have "Am" spoken as though it were "Aim"

the "is" in "Amis" is then not quite like the word "is", the principal difference being that the "s" in "Amis" is slightly softer, ie less like a "z"

I suppose "Amis" is a bit like "Amiss" but with the first 2 letters more like "Aim" as set out above; that's not quite right either though because in "Amiss" there is more emphasis on the 2nd sylable than in "Amis" where the greater emphasis is on the first sylable (sorry about my spelling)

that's as good as I can do

re why is he English? well: his parents were English, he is English and he lives in England; he was educated in England and he also writes in English; he has an English name

his father happened to be teaching in Wales for a few short years at about the time that Martin Amis was born

94.7.48.39 (talk) 11:08, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Tibor Fischer

How nice it is to read something written by Tibor Fischer. I haven't read anything by him since Under the Frog. Good to see he can still put pen to paper. --Dilaudid 22:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear. I just read the review of Tibor's last book (published 4 years ago) in the washington post... "my right hand ... wants to type something ... Evokes Amis in the style of Martin with the Amis clearly influenced by following in the Amis of Martin bloody Amis help ow Amis . . ." Could this have led to the tiny element of sour grapes I think I see in Tibor's "masturbating uncle" quote? --Dilaudid 22:54, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Martin Amis/Great Live Interview

Hello Wiki's. I've been doing some reasearch on certain writers and found a wonderful link for Martin Amis. It is a live interview where he talks about his latest novel and the journey of his 30 year writing career. I've attached the link and wanted some of you to check it out for post approval. I think it's rare and wonderful. http://www.victorialautman.com/ontherecord.shtml#amis Corkyshag (talk) 20:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Nationality

His nationality should be listed as "British" rather than "English" in the information panel

ha ha, or perhaps Ukanian. Anyway, here's an interesting review of The Second Plane in today's New York Times. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 06:32, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible vandalism, breach of NPOV

User:Remform has regularly changed this article as well as the one on Terry Eagleton to include emotive words such as "disgraceful", "lumpen" to describe Eagleton and his allegations about Amis senior and Amis junior. It seems to me that this is a clear breach of NPOV. What do other users think? Since Remform seems to be a new user I don't wish to accuse him of vandalism. I'm going to leave a message on his talk page. --Mia-etol (talk) 08:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to these comments - how do you explain the biography of a writer featuring a polemic dominated by substantial negative comments such as this by Eagleton? And why only use this persons negatively biased comments to condemn a few views whilst the body of Amis's work is beyond reproach? This forum is clearly NOT a FREE SPEECH medium. When censorious types are allowed to unabashedly bias the feel of a writers work by defending space to communist rabble rousers rather than to the actual author being critiqued, the nature of this site becomes questionable.

The comments added merely highlighted this point - and they were swiftly removed to reinforce the point.

This censorship is disgraceful, cowardly and pederastic claptrap at its worst. RemformRemform (talk) 09:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a blog. If you want to add more writers in support of Amis feel free to do so. Just don't add your own personal comments. --Mia-etol (talk) 10:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

No encyclopedia worth the name dedicates large portions of its entries to the critics of those being critiqued. User:Mia-etol simply defends the shoddy and two-ply disposable views of disgraced Eagleton, and thereby alludes to the collusion in this bias. It seems that it is fine to defend the communistic and specious claptrap of Eagletons, but opposing these views is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Remform (talk • contribs) 08:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Cyril Connolly's Enemies of Promise

I think that Martin Amis was a very proficient and humourous writer in his youth. However, as Cyril Connolly points out in the second part of his book Enemies of Promise, one of the main pitfalls for an author is 'the Slimy Mallows' representing success, the most insidious enemy of a writer. Unfortunately, I think this has blighted MA's later writing efforts. Perhaps his tenure at Manchester University will help to correct this as he has the true characteristics of a very talented writer.

• Following up on this last post, I am now not sure that this is the case. Looking at this recent interview in The Daily Telegraph [[1]], it seems that M.A. is harking back to the time of his youth; by focusing on his former flat-mate and friend, Rob Henderson, he is attempting to re-create similar scenarios to his previous novels. Now, for a youngish writer this might be appropriate and it was with his books like The Rachel Papers and Success. However, I think for any future books he should be focusing on themes more appropriate to his time of life.

Here is a fragment from the article describing their friendship as young men:

Rob left Westminster in July 1966, and was sent to the crammer where he met Amis, who arrived, “late in 1967… aged 18 and averaging one O-level every other year”. Both small, good-looking and charming, the two quickly became friends. “They were the terrible twins – what they didn’t do isn’t worth recording,” says Dingwall-Main, who was also at the crammer and is still friends with Amis. “They were both 5ft 6in tall. It was Tweedledum and Tweedledee.” According to Amis, he and Rob spent their time “bunking off school and going to betting shops”, but the lives of the terrible twins were about to take a crucial turn. “Mart went off to university. I went off to design gardens,” says Dingwall-Main. “Rob went off to get drunk.”

Getting into Oxford would be the making of Amis, but friends say that failing to emulate his partner in crime was the breaking of Rob. “He tried to follow Martin into Oxford but couldn’t. It was a huge blow to him,” says Jo Cruikshank. “That’s where his life started to unravel. He started doing absolutely nothing.” Instead he plunged his inheritance, which he received aged 21, into what Amis calls “a small but fancy maisonette” in Pont Street, off Belgrave Square. It was there, after Amis graduated, that the pair lived together with a certain debauched panache in the early Seventies. And to begin with, it seemed that with his looks and charm, it would be Rob’s career, at a film-production company in Soho, that blossomed.

“Rob’s career would seem to me, for a while, to be horrifyingly meteoric,” notes Amis, who was jobbing as a journalist and working on The Rachel Papers while Rob landed himself a job on the Joan Collins film The Bitch. With the publication of Amis’s first novel in 1973 however, the real pecking order was revealed. It became clear that, as Simon Harling (a fellow friend) says, “one of these guys was on an upward curve, and one of them was on a downward curve”.

Ivankinsman (talk) 18:15, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Julie Kavanagh

There was also an article by Julie Kavanagh in The Daily Telegraph [2] [which originally appeared in the summer issue of 'Intelligent Life' magazine (www.moreintelligentlife.com)] about her relationship with MA. Now, if this was about a dead author it might be of some interest but for an author who is still living, it seems that it doesn't really have that much relevance other than being a publicity stunt for both parties involved. I did start off reading the article with some interest but it just goes on ... and on ... and on ... into the minutiae of their relationship together so I had to stop out of sheer boredom about half way through.Ivankinsman (talk) 19:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Acting career?

Is this the same Martin Amis who was an actor in A High Wind in Jamaica (1965)? IMBD thinks so, but I can find no other evidence for or against, and there's no mention of an acting career in this Wikipedia article. Thanks. Keith Lynch (talk) 03:17, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Dead Babies

Since there's no extant article about Dead Babies, I thought it would be worth creating one. I'd prefer that it not be a stub, but be relatively free of "spoilers." Thoughts? Alex MacPherson (talk) 06:46, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Late Capitalist?

Surely this should be rewritten. Is the writer predicting the end of capitalism? I think not.

86.139.152.219 (talk) 01:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Martin Amis Movies

Is it worth mentioning that Martin Amis was the subject of a twitter game that led to his name being the #1 worldwide hashtag for the bulk of 28th June 2010? The challenge was to replace one word in a movie title with the words 'Martin Amis' which proved so popular that it gained instant notoriety. Just a note to see if this story will develop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.208.217 (talk) 22:07, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Important

Just finished re-reading The Information having first read it when it came out 15 years ago.

One of the best bits is the obsessive interest (suffered by both main characters) in seeing eg one's name in print or in the case of Richard any reference to alcohol (high point: the word "it" on a printed page bringing to mind "gin and it", a no doubt repellent cocktail).

Anyway it suddenly occurred to me when I got to that bit, given that both characters are so obviously Amis based, and given that that particular characteristic is yet more obviously taken from Amis's own life, that:

- MA must spend a good part of every day googling himself, like many writers do, in order to see what the world thinks of him and/or what new references there are to him or his works, in the style of the Gwyn character

- similarly he must come across and check his wikipedia entry, either from wiki-ing himself or as an inevitable product of googling himself

- occasionally it must happen that he checks the discussion page of his wiki entry, eg if nothing much is happening elsewhere in the Amis focused internet, ie this very page where I am now writing!

(I say occasionally. It would be unnecessarily unkind to say how often I suspect he does it.)

Assuming all above is correct: Martin, the book is superb. Please write more like it.

94.7.48.39 (talk) 10:56, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

If the reference to incessant auto-googling is correct, let alone the part about reading his own Wikipedia entry at times, you'd think he would have corrected the error in his birth place by now. Johnnydeeagain (talk) 14:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Copyright problem

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First female protaganist

"Night Train" (1997) was not his first book with a female protagonist. The main character in "Other People" (1981) was also a woman. Entry amended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.21.40.253 (talk) 02:40, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Way too much detail

Do we really need paragraphs describing the author's readings? Not even Twain and Dickens have this treatment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.149.221 (talk) 20:11, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Britain's Best-Known Novels

From the introduction: "Martin Amis is ... the author of several of Britain's best-known novels, including Money (1984) and London Fields (1989)." ARE YOU SERIOUS!? Please cast your thoughts over the history of the novel in Great Britain over the past two-and-a-half centuries and tell me where Martian Amis ranks in either fame or ability. Please delete this, fan-boys, or provide some evidence to back up this intellectually bankrupt claim! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.5.210 (talk) 11:16, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Correct grammar....

Agnosticism section

Don't use the word God: but something more intelligent than us...

As a writer, shouldn't he have said "something more intelligent than we..."

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Martin Amis/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

*Suggest use of inline references. Also include a "see also" section.

Last edited at 18:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 23:18, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Update of most recent book needed

I tried to update the 2010s section to add the publication of The Rub of Time, but everytime I click edit on that section the section then appears blank. Can someone else give it a go? Tacyarg (talk) 09:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Anti–nuclear weapons activist?

I'd like to hear other editors views on whether it would be appropriate to add the category Category:British anti–nuclear weapons activists to this page. I don't have much knowledge of Martin Amis but he seems to mention nuclear weapons in his works in as far as I can see a critical fashion. Would this category be warranted? If he is against nuclear weapons could we regard him as an activist? Authoring works against something in my view could be regarded as activism. Please let me know your thoughts here and any citations that could be used to support this claim would be enormously helpful. Helper201 (talk) 22:26, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Bibliography

I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates for books and articles, as well as tables for organising short stories, poems and/or book reviews. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 10:33, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Manchester University salary

It's a minor detail which hardly deserves to be in the article of such an important writer, really, but it IS there so I've edited. The reference to Amis' salary was wrong and unecessarily justificatory. Its citation was not used correctly either, as it didn't say what was said on the tin. Amis was paid a salary (£80k) at the lower end of the professiorial range in return for 28 contracted hours. He didn't teach assessed units and didn't mark papers. The University was in (reasonable) PR mode when describing professorial workloads and salaries; they clearly didn't apply to Amis. Instead, universities across the world, and luckily in the UK, routinely have stars in on star-type contracts like Amis'. Students like it and it's an important link to the commerical world of creativity. In Amis' case, it's cheap at the price. There's nothing for anyone to be apologetic or justificatory about. So there. Emmentalist (talk) 12:13, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Place of birth

I don't know the precise location but he cannot have been born at the John Radcliffe Hospital, as that was opened in 1972, when Amis was 23 years old. Another hospital named after the same 18th Century English surgeon - the Radcliffe Infirmary - was in operation at the time, and is the likely place of birth. The other maternity hospital in the city at the time was the Churchill, which, along with a home birth, is a possibility. Whole thing needs a citation, obviously. Johnnydeeagain (talk) 13:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, the links given do not support the claim to have been born at the JRH. One states Swansea, the other states Radcliffe Maternity Hospital [a wing of the old, now closed Radcliffe Infirmary]. Johnnydeeagain (talk) 14:51, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The biography states 'Radcliffe Maternity Hospital'. I have changed the article according to that source. Anna (talk) 01:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

House/home

@Julietdeltalima: I'm reluctant to exercise WP:OWNership, but the NYT, the Indie, the Beeb and the Graun all have "home" with respect to the property in Florida. And the Palm Beach Post, presumably his local paper there, has "one of his homes". All covered by the concept of second home, I suppose. Thoughts? Moscow Mule (talk) 21:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, people also straightfacedly talk about, e.g., "printing and photocopying solutions" even though having things photocopied isn't a problem but rather an ordinary part of doing business, and even Mr. Julietdeltalima says nonsense like "There are a bunch of beautiful homes on that street." ("Have you met the people? They're really that happy?" I ask him.) "Home" for a building is marketing-ese that has been pounded into people's brains by the people who also want us to capitalise "Realtor". A house is a building. A home is a psychosocial construct. "Second home" is a contradiction in terms: one has one home that periodically shifts from one house to another.

But I acknowledge I'm yelling at the clouds on this point any more. Marketing is unnaturally modifying the language. I'm not going to revert anyone who changes it back, but I wish there was more awareness of how salespeople are warping our brains. Take care. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 19:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Howling at (or indeed, singing to) the clouds, sky, moon, etc. can be cathartic. As a coda, a thought on the subject penned by Burt Bacharach and Hal David, immortalised by both Dionne Warwick and Brook Benton in 1964, and again by Bachrach in 1967: A House Is Not a Home. Notwithstanding realtors, marketeers, and the chicanery of sundry linguistic charlatans, might this debate have been settled nearly six decades ago? -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 20:10, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Ha, you haven't lived if you haven't howled at the moon.;-) Carlstak (talk) 01:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm, the given cite of the NYT says he " died on Friday at his home in Lake Worth, Fla." 'and' that he had a "home in Brooklyn". Julietdeltalima's comment implies that one can't be 'at home' in more than one place. Back in the late '60s and early '70s, after the first Whole Earth Catalogue came out in 1968, if you asked a random hippie at a rock concert where was his 'home', there was a good chance he or she might say "Earth". ;-) Carlstak (talk) 02:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, no one's changed it back, so it looks like you got away with it. And I'd never capitalise "realtor", not even at the start of a sentence. Interesting path we took, too, by way of Burt Bacharach and Stewart Brand. Peace. Moscow Mule (talk) 04:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

As many of the publications cited now brand their fat, glossy real-estate listings as some permutation of: Luxury Homes Section (as if it were content, not a sales brochure), it seems no great surprise that the style-guides of these august publications might lean towards the marketing driven usage underscored by Julietdeltalima above ("A house is a building. A home is a psychosocial construct." seems to sum-up the matter rather concisely). Interestingly, Wiktionary leans towards the psychosocial construct definition, while Webster's hedges – although I haven't a clue if either has any bearing on WP:STYLE. Regardless of any lingering uncertainty about this small detail, the article itself reads very well.

@Moscow Mule: Would the sentence: "Realtors generally use the word 'home' to describe houses, condominiums, and apartments – regardless of context." be acceptable use of caps in the case of the word "realtor"? (Or perhaps the headline: "Realtor's multi-million dollar 8 bed 10 bath 25,000 square foot heated infinity pool beachfront holiday home in exclusive gated golf course community set ablaze by radical linguists under the cover of night"?)

Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Legal status of knighthood.

It has been reported that Amis was going to be knighted in the 2023 Birthday Honours, and that his name will still be included in the list even though he did not live to see its publication. Do we have any precedent for determining the validity of this? Should he be called "Sir" in the lede? Robin S. Taylor (talk) 21:13, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

No. Carlstak (talk) 00:55, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, he should be. His knighthood is dated the day before his death, per § cite note-1. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 00:59, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Good lord, have you no decency? ;-) from the man himself in "The English aristocracy is pathetic":

N.O. - Could you become a knight one day, like your father?

M. Amis. - I've already said that I wouldn't accept it. I don't want to be associated with the British Empire. It's so ridiculous. No, there’s no chance of that happening. To be honest, I would prefer not to be English."

Kingsley Amis was ennobled by the Queen in 1990. Carlstak (talk) 01:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

(a) People sometimes - often, really - change their minds about stuff.

(b) Nobody gets onto an Honours List unless they have first been offered the honour, and then accepted it. Neither of those things can occur after the subject's death.

(c) Where a subject dies after accepting an award and before the publication of the relevant honours list, the date of the award is made effective from before the subject's death. So there is no doubt whatsoever that we should be calling him "Sir Martin Amis".

(d) There are many similar cases, e.g. Sir Henry Cotton (golfer). -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:00, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

BBC says he accepted the honour before he died. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 01:44, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Dear god, it's worse than "Sir" Mick Jagger. Disgusting, really. Carlstak (talk) 02:37, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Not the place to be airing our personal views on such things. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:54, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Please lighten up. I can state a personal view on a talk page; it's not the article. Carlstak (talk) 13:26, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Still not the place. See WP:TALKPOV. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 10:24, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Please drop it—I did. Carlstak (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Personal views aside, one should perhaps remain circumspect about the circumstances and process by which Amis "accepted" the honour: In a highly unusual move the Cabinet Office conferred the knighthood early on May 18, according to The Telegraph; Amis was given a knighthood before his death from cancer at the age of 73 in May, states the Evening Standard, etc. In light of the author's previously aired (strong) views on the subject, it seems likely that if this deathbed reversal had resulted in, say, the modification of his will, Amis's state of mind would have been vigorously contented contested in court. If his posthumously announced in vivo ennoblement is an uncontested fait accompli, then perhaps it is of little worth held. Unless there is another reversal, it seems that Sir Martin died a noble death (in his house, in Florida), alas. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:56, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm sure you mean "vigorously contested in court." Carlstak (talk) 13:26, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. Thanks, Cl3phact0 (talk) 17:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Amis evidently accepted a knighthood on his deathbed, regardless of what he may have said about official honours in the past. He knew he wouldn't have to live with the title and he may have consulted his wife and children to see if they liked the idea as a small consolation for their imminent loss. In addition, he was blokishly competitive and his old mucker Ian McEwan was down to become a Companion of Honour in the same Honours List. This outranks a Knight Bachelor by some way, but the K at least put Amis on par with his father and carried a title, which the admittedly classier CH doesn't. Amis liked to claim that he and Kingsley were unique as successful father-and-son writers, weirdly overlooking Alexandre Dumas pere et fils. Amis certainly wasn't 'ennobled', because that means being given a peerage and becoming a member of the House of Lords. Knights are commoners, not nobility, and can stand for election to the House of Commons for that reason. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:47, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Hatnote?

Do we need a hatnote {{about|}}informing the reader: For the landscape and documentary photographer, see Martin Amis (photographer)? This seems to be overkill (somewhat opportunistic, and an unnecessary distraction), as the photographer in question is clearly listed immediately after the writer in an ordinary Wikipedia search. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's standard practice per WP:SIMILAR. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 12:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Understood, thanks. The question was really if in this case it is WP:NOTAMB (as there are no redirects which would justify WP:HATREDIR, etc.). [NB: I also just noticed that: The presence or absence of hatnotes in articles with disambiguated titles has been a contentious issue, and I certainly didn't at all mean to go there!] Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

PS: Should there be one on the other article too? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cl3phact0 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

No, WP:NAMB. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 14:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)