Talk:Glaspaleis

Was the market originally at the Church Square?

Two sources indicated that one reason to start a new shop for Schunck was that the town's centre of activity had moved, according to one source ("Schunck's Glass palace" as in the external sources) from the church square to the market square. This makes sense, and I had wondered before why other sources mentioned that the old shop had such a good location, when the market square was around the corner. However, if the market was previously at the Church square, then that would have been a prime location. But neither source is very specific about this, so if anyone knows, please tell. DirkvdM 20:47, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Penthouse and restaurant

I had understood that the fifth floor (the first penthouse floor) included a restaurant, but now it seems that that was all penthouse. Maybe I was confused by the fact that it now houses a restaurant. Anyone know? DirkvdM 13:29, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Architectural texts

In the book 'Schunck's Glaspaleis' there are several texts that I don't quite follow, partly because I'm not an architect. So I'll give them here, so an architect might incorporate the information in a different wording to prevent copyright violation.

"In the basement of the old building, an arcade, provided with large display windows, has been constructed leading from the Marktplein to the Emmaplein. The rest of the old basement area has been used for the switch house. The arcade with the display windows will not be brought into use until the new street between this building and the Vroom en Dreesman building has been completed."

"The outermost row of columns has been placed at a considerable distance in from the outer walls of the building, thus allowing the mushroom-slab floors to project beyond these columns. This prevents there being a major difference between the bending moments of the slabs at the edges compared to the ordinary floor slabs and large bending moments in the outer columns with the resulting differences in dimensions, reinforcement and form of the slabs at the edges and the outermost columns." This should come after the bit about the 'large resistance in all directions to sagging'.

"The floors, up to the staircase and lift section, are mushroom-slab floors, calculated according to LEWE. The foundation slab is also constructed as a beamless floor with a load equal to the assumed uniform soil pressure distribution, which was 0.96 kg/m² and thus very close to the permitted pressure. The foundation slab is 50 cm thick. Using the LEWE method allowed the reinforcement to be adjusted very precisely to the moment progression, since the moments for a single floor slab were determined in a large number of locations. For the purpose of the wind calculation, the building was considered to be a framework with the moment zero points in the middle of each column. The columns were constructed with spiral reinforcement and go from 60 cm thick on the lowest level to 35 cm thick on the fourth floor."

"Since the site for construction was very restricted (some temporary display windows extended beyond the frontage line) the foundation pit could only be excavated with vertical sides. The shoring consisted of two horizontal wooden frameworks, which also carried the formwork for the two basement decks."

Double glazing?

Climate control seems to be one of the perks of the Glaspaleis. But I wonder how well it is isolated by modern standards. Is double glazing used now (I assume it wasn't used in the 1930's)? If so, has this affected the other climatic aspects as well, such as the natural ventilation? DirkvdM 10:37, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

By now there are a few lines in the text about that subject.

But it's hard to imagine, that the energybill of a glass building like this is not quite a bit higher, than the one of a stone wall building, with as small as possible, doubleglazed windows.

As another disadvantage of transparancy for buildings, used as a library or an office, can be mentioned the limited privacy and possibility to concentrate on reading resp. working. Nobody can read and (brain-)work better 'on the street', than in a room, visually separated from traffic in the street. In a library one shouldn't have to look for a place, where one isn't some kind of a lay figure.

In case this kind of critics has been published before in well known sources, it might be added to the article. James Blond (talk) 22:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

UNESCO world heritage?

I've read in two sources that the Glaspaleis is on UNESCO's world heritage list of the 1000 most remarkable buildings in the world. But neither here nor on the UNESCO site is that mentioned. Has it been knocked off the list? And is there a link with the UIA list of 1000 most important buildings of the 20th century? DirkvdM 14:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Since ten years I've been following closely what was written about the Glaspaleis, but I never read that it was put on Unesco's World Heritage list. It certainly isn't on the list at this moment, and it is just highly unlikely that it would have been removed from the list since a lot has been done to preserve the building. Buxtehude 23:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Also see the new website http://www.werelderfgoed.nl (in Dutch). Buxtehude 00:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

edits by ZS

On 16 April 2006 ZS did so many edits in one go that it was impossible to see check what was altered (especially because of the moving of photos). In the end I decided to revert and try and get the 'good' edits in again. I hope I haven't missed any. Sorry about this crude method. DirkvdM 14:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem, though I have yet to see any reversions of my previous edits to date. I'll revert the edits section-by-section this time. ╫ ２５ ^{◀RingADing▶} 19:37, 19 April 2006 (UTC) ╫

How is it with the quotes? I always use double quotes for actual quotes (quoting someone) and single quotes for just about anything else, so as to distinguish between the two. Also, you sometimes use actual double quotes and sometimes two single quotes, which I suppose isn't as meant because here that means italics.

You added 'an' to 'art deco style'. Is there more than one art deco style?

You changed 'shop' to 'store', when referring to the old shop, but that was the sort of place that hardly has anything on display, just a counter where you can ask for things to be fetched from the back, and the word 'shop' seems more appropriate here. A store is bigger, like the Glaspaleis, right?

You changed 'US' to 'American', but that is an ambiguous word, so I'll revert that.

Why did you change the bit about the lifts? Do you know something I don't? There is no longer one for private use, right? And why did you remove the bit about that lift going up to the penthouse?

"Work ... completed" isn't proper English, so I'll revert that.

How is it with the headers? I used the two books as sources, so I put them under 'Literature', but I suppose 'Sources' is more accurate. DirkvdM 08:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Architecture scans copyrights

I'm about to upload scans I made a year ago, when I asked about the copyright status at Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags/archive4#family album. It seems that since the servers are located in the US the laws that apply are the US laws. Those are still complicated, but Camildo's first statement was that the architecture photos are probably public domain, so I'll rely on that. DirkvdM 20:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Interview with Peutz in Architectura

I've read that there is an interview with Peutz in the weekly magazine Architectura, 13 June 1936. This should be accessible through http://www.nai.nl/e/collection/news/2006/0606_tijdschriften.html, at http://libserv.tudelft.nl/tresor/books/Architectuur/, but that doesn't work for me. And it even causes Firefox to crash. It doesn't work with Opera and Konqueror either and Epiphany shows a 'click here to download plugin' message, but when I click that, nothing happens. Why are these artsy sites always so shitty? Probably 'optimised for MacOS' or some bull like that. :) Hopefully, I'll be able to access it elsewhere. DirkvdM 17:35, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup, I just tried a Mac and it works. Still terribly slow to page through, and it is a rather short article that doesn't tell me much more. It contains the building plans, but I already have those from another source. Here are some bits that give some more info, although even that is already largely known, in original Dutch to avoid misinterpretations of the architectural terminology, and for the same reason largely literally copied (except for the one but last bit), albeit translated into modern Dutch:

• "Het Kerkplein ligt 2,5 m hoger dan het Marktplein. Het hoogteverschil van de twee markten heeft de gelegenheid geschapen de expeditie, de prive ingang, de portiersloge en de kantoren op een tussenverdieping aan te brengen en de kelders van het oude gebouw om te vormen tot schakelhuis, grote etalage en passage van markt naar Emmaplein. De passage van markt naar Emmaplein zal als etalage worden ingericht zo gauw de tussen V&D en Schunck geprojecteerde straat wordt aangelegd. De vierde verdieping is voorlopig ingericht tot kleermakerswerkplaats."
• "De dragende constructies, de funderingsplaat, de kolommen, de vloeren en de platten zijn gemaakt van gewapend beton. Geen der wanden is dragend, ook die der kelders, ofschoon van gewapend beton, niet. De laatste zijn enkel berekend op grond- en waterdruk."
• "De gemetselde wanden zijn, voor zover het binnenwanden zijn, gemaakt van drijfsteen, gemetseld tussen de vloeren op, resp onder, isolerende treetexlagen. De buitenwandjes van de buitenspouwmuren zijn van baksteen."
• "In de zomer moet men aan de kant van de zon de gordijnen sluiten en de dakluiken openen."
• De beide leidingkanalen die op de tekening zijn aangegeven zijn mede ontworpen om het gebouw eventueel mechanisch te ontluchten. Maar dat bleek door de natuurlijke ventilatie overbodig. De verwarming van het gebouw in de winter geschiedt door een warmwaterinstallatie met natuurlijke circulatie. Een pomp kan worden ingeschakeld voor het versnellen der circulatie, maar is tot dusverre niet nodig gebleken. De glaswanden zijn beter warmte-isolerend dan berekend en gewoonlijk verondersteld.
• "De funderingsgrond is drijfzand. Als een schip ligt daar het gebouw, in zich star, op. De verbindingen zijn, om in scheepstermen te blijven, als enterbruggen uitgevoerd."

And that last bit is the most interesting - it clarifies one of the architecural drawings for me. I should rework and upload those one of these days. The article contains just a selection of those drawings. Except for one, which I don't have, which shows details of the basement, showing the 'third basement', which is architecturally interesting. Alas, it's a very bad image, not detailed enough for drawings. What I (not being an architect) understand from it is that it shows the engine rooms and such, on the East side (next to the Church square). The ground floor drawings show the line A-B and C-D. The basement drawings show two more lines, with one 'F' visible. That's probably the line E-F, which is one of the two drawings. This one shows that the basements consist of two sections. The main part has two basements, but the East side has three, with the two sections separated (the floors don't coincide - although the very lowest floor does - as does the ground floor of course). At the top is a 'kruipgat voor etaleurs'. Btw, it takes a long time to go through the volume, so it's handy to know that the article is at dvd8/mm0_0007/mm0_0094.jpg DirkvdM 19:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Hold on, that last bit is of course the solution - just stick that bit to the url and there you are: http://libserv.tudelft.nl/tresor/books/Architectuur/Bouwkundig_weekblad_Architectura/dvd8/mm0_0007/mm0_0094.jpg. That's the one with the drawing I just described. The rest can be reached by changing the last number; the article is 92 through 94. Damn, I could have saved myself quite a bit of work if had thought of this before. DirkvdM 20:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Rijckheyt

A site I still need to explore: http://www.rijckheyt.nl/sjablonen/rijckheyt/index.asp?subsite=100. Filling in'glaspaleis' at http://www.rijckheyt.nl/sjablonen/rijckheyt/pagina.asp?subsite=100&pagina=178 gives some nice photos. And http://www.archieven.nl/pls/m/zk2.inv?p_q=4598754 looks like a very good source (don't forget the 'inventaris' tab). Alas, the sources are often not accssible, it seems. there are many 'details' links, but they don't help much. Or maybe I misunderstand something?

http://vubis.heerlen.nl/webopac/vubis.csp also looks interesting. DirkvdM 10:10, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Glass rear

After the buildings behind the Glaspaleis wer torn down, the rear also received a glass facade, except for the southeast corner. At least a 1975 photograph shows this. DirkvdM 10:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

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