Talk:Giovanni Botero

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Botero was copied or moved into Giovanni Botero with this edit on 21 Oct 2024. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Untitled

The introductory paragraph is extremely contentious and should be completely rewritten.

(1) In De regio sapientia, Della ragion di Stato, and Relationi universali Botero did argue against Machiavelli's "amoral political philosophy," but what is meant by "because it simply did not work"? The dominant scholarly understanding (cf. Tuck, Burke, Meinecke, Viroli, etc...) is, in fact, that Botero - despite his anti-Machiavellian (and Tacitean) posturing - incorporated much of Machiavelli's approach to politics into his own political thought (particularly in Della ragion di Stato).

(2) Aquinas may have influenced Botero, but there were certainly many other equally noteworthy influences, both ancient (Aristotle, Cicero, etc.) and contemporary (Bodin, Lucinge, etc.).

(3) Why is Botero's conception of the relationship between ruler and subjects "more sophisticated" than Machiavelli's? This is quite vague. Even if one agrees that a conception that would "give the people more power in the political and economic matters of the state" is inherently more sophisticated (than one that does not, I suppose), plenty of scholars would argue that Machiavelli (particularly in the Discourses on Livy) conceptualized a very robust role for "the people." Indeed, Botero was a monarchist who supported the universal imperial rule of the Catholic Church, while Machiavelli is usually considered (arguably, of course) to have been sympathetic to republican values.

(4) Botero's understanding of the importance of economic matters for the maintenance of a state does distinguish him from Machiavelli and may have foreshadowed later liberal thinkers, but not in the way suggested here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billykwan (talk • contribs) 12:42, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reaction to the comments above

I broadly agree with point (1)-(4) above and I am relieved to see that I am not alone in finding the present text one-sided. In the coming days I will try to fix this as gently as possible. (4) is fixed already but I would warmly invite the colleague Billykwan to plug in as well.

Saltean (talk) 10:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Introductory paragraph

The brief summary has been modified. Inline citations added. Saltean (talk) 10:48, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge from Botero

Botero is about a surname and it is not a place to write a large text about a single person with the surname. - Altenmann >talk 16:16, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Given that this is unopposed, I've moved the unique content to Giovanni Botero, and removed the section from Botero. Note that formally speaking this is a move rather than a merge. Klbrain (talk) 08:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]