Talk:George Hrab

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A fact from George Hrab appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 September 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that independent musician and podcaster George Hrab has customized his album packaging with such things as a tin box in order to encourage his fans to purchase his music?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/September.

Wikipedia

Using podcast as a source

I just reverted a couple of edits from an unregistered user who wanted to include a couple of incidental statements that Hrab made on a recent podcast. I know that Wikipedia does not like to use podcasts and blogs as a source although it is hard to avoid them when the subject of the article is well known for blogging or podcasting. Is there a rule of thumb about how much detail from his own life we will include in the article if the source is his own podcast? Allecher (talk) 18:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay this page is insane. Get links on other pages, not over-link on Hrab's page. Calm down Sgerbic (talk) 02:39, 12 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Article length

Without intending any disrespect, I wonder if this article's level of detail does not match the subject's importance. The article was overwhelmingly written, and appears to be continually edited, by one user, Krelnik (Tim Farley); although Farley is clearly an important Wikipedia contributor (and I pretty clearly am not), he is also obviously a big fan, and possibly friend, of Hrab.

Here are some of the reasons I believe the length and tone of this article are not presently appropriate:

In General

The article's tone seems unnecessarily generous to Hrab - just look at the first paragraph of the article's body:

Hrab performs in several genres of music, but most often in rock and funk. His lyrics are often witty[5] and his songs often reflect his interest in science and skepticism.[2] Hrab lists Frank Zappa and David Byrne as key influences. "You can shake your ass to it, but it's still really smart and interesting," he says.[6] He has described his style of music with one word: Philosophunk! "I’m a big fan of Frank Zappa, Talking Heads, XTC, the Beatles, and things like that. Those are my influences, but at the same time, I’m a huge fan of Stan Freberg and James Randi and Michael Shermer and those kinda guys. So it’s sort of like philosophy and music… What I do is I coalesce the vapors of the universe."[7]

There are lots of other little touches that just seem out of place in a Wikipedia article: the quotations, parentheticals like "(a segment of one of the programs is available on Hrab's website)," an overabundance of quirky pictures, and weird little details like "In the summer of 2011, Hrab revealed on his podcast that he is allergic to penicillin."

Hrab has been involved in many projects that are themselves not notable enough to justify articles, and I'm not sure that the accretion of those substantially elevate Hrab's own notability to the point that an article about him needs 119 citations.
Many of the article's references are from highly regional outlets (mainly the Morning Call, which serves Lehigh Valley); likewise his awards.

Music

Hrab may have released six solo albums, but it does not seem that any of them are actually noteworthy. None of his albums have been rated or reviewed—either by a paid reviewer or simply a user—on the usually-prolific Allmusic. Hrab only has 90 monthly listeners on spotify.
Hrab's "day job" is drumming with the Philadelphia Funk Authority, which seems like a fun but not especially notable event/wedding band (it is not reflected in the article that he is apparently no longer a member of the group)
None of the other projects Hrab has been involved with—The Blue Turtles, the Geologic Orchestra, the Eric Mintel Quartet—are themselves notable. His projects like "The Styrofoam Tour" and "Occasional Songs for the Periodic Table" and "The Broad Street Score" were either largely or entirely unnoticed by the world outside of Hrab's local paper and occasional use in skeptic events.

Awards

It is worth looking a little more closely at the listed awards; at first glance they seem notable but few actually are:

Gold award at 2006 Lehigh Valley ADDY Awards: This is both a highly specific regional award show, and it was awarded to "Sheer Brick Studio," not Hrab (it was for the cover of one of Hrab's self-released albums). Hrab seems to be associated with Sheer Brick Studios, a regional branding/ad agency that did the covers for Hrab's albums and released one of his books of essays.
Nominated: Best Audio Production: A nomination from 2006 by a now-defunct science fiction podcast award show
Won: Best Comedy Podcast: An award from the "Podcast Peer Awards," which only existed from 2006-2008
Won: Best All Around Performer (tie): Hrab was in a three-way tie with two other performers in this highly regional award show
Won: Best Wedding Music (x2): The Philadelphia Funk Authority, for which Hrab was drummer, won a regional "best wedding music" award in 2010 and 2011 from the Best of the Philly Hot List.
Gold award at 2011 Greater Lehigh Valley ADDY Awards: See above comment on Lehigh Valley ADDY.
Won: 20 Year Veteran Award, 2017 Lehigh Valley Music Awards
Nominated, 2018 Emmy Award: Importantly—but omitted from the article—is that this, too was regional, for the Boston/New England Emmys. Neither of his co-nominees (including the winner) has a wikipedia page of their own

Podcasts

Hrab's show, The Geology Show, does not seem to have gained much traction. Posts about new episodes on social media rarely gain more than 10 likes. I'm not sure if there's a good source for podcast listenership records, but just based on searching around I'd be surprised if he breaks 1,000 listens an episode.
Also, why on earth would this list 19 "segments" that appear on the show? Even far bigger shows that are objectively more notable don't go into unnecessary depth like this.
It's true that Hrab has been a guest on a bunch of podcasts! Including a few that are legitimately notable. I definitely don't deny that. But being an occasional podcast guest maketh not the notable person.

I'm not sure where Wikipedians draw the line on self-promotion, neutrality, and notability, but look through the citations here. There are basically three kinds of sources relied upon in this article: region-specific news (e.g. The Morning Call, a Lehigh Valley outlet that is inaccessible behind a paywall), the "Skeptic" community (largely other "bubble" figures as he appears to be), and Hrab's own website and podcast (referenced a fanatical 98 times - I counted).

And - sincerely! - my point here is not to attack Hrab or Farley. I just think this article misses the mark. Its length and level of detail, to me, imply that Hrab is much more notable than public sources demonstrate. Interested to hear what others think. Theturbolemming (talk) 19:05, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent points. Also of note: none of Krelnik's other biography articles are similar in style to this one, including the BLP; they are much more concise and not inundated with unnecessary citations. At some point I may tackle shaving this biography down considerably. Xanderox (talk) 07:44, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]