Talk:General Joseph Colton

IGN

A really good reliable reference that can be used in the article is available at IGN , I've added it to the lead section but if it is better placed elsewhere feel free to move it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.184.106.130 (talk) 01:21, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Requested move (June 2010)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was request rejected as lacking a rationale.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:54, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

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General Joseph B. Colton (G.I. Joe) → General Joseph Colton — A short reason for page name change. User:75.142.152.104 03:18, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Note

Apparently, in a book put out by 'Fun Publications' our man Colton is now the president of the United States. If I find the appropiate ref I will put it in. Lots42 (talk) 18:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Requested move (September 2010)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved Kotniski (talk) 14:45, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

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General Joseph Colton (G.I. Joe) → General Joseph Colton — This is the only article with this title, so there's no need to disambiguate. 75.142.152.104 (talk) 03:29, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

• Merge into a List of G.I. Joe characters as like is being done with all the excessive Transformers characters. 76.66.200.95 (talk) 04:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
• Weak support per nom, assuming that a simplified General Colton wouldn't be preferable, and also bearing in mind that there is a real world Joseph Colton. No prejudice against a merge, but start a proper discussion for one. PC78 (talk) 07:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
• Support. No need for disambiguation. The real Joseph Colton was not a general, so the current {{distinguish}} hatnote is more than sufficient. Agree that a merger is a separate issue from naming this article as long as it exists. Station1 (talk) 11:52, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
• 'Support. What Station1 said. Lots42 (talk) 21:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Original Joe

It should be stressed, with the appropiate references, that Colton is the original Joe figure. You know, the dude with the kung-fu grip and all. Lots42 (talk) 22:03, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 April 2012

I have recreated the original G.I. Joe logo for the General Joseph Colton page using Paint.NET, however due to semi-protection I am not able to add it to the page.

thumb|left|G.I. Joe Banner

BanaBong (talk) 04:42, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Nice work, but it has a few details wrong. The J should loop up and there should be a star between the I and the J. Also, the tag lne should be "a great..." not "the great...". Regards, Celestra (talk) 05:06, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Done Actually scratch that, I decided to go instead with a recreation of the comic book version to better match Joe Colton. You are also incorrect "The" and "A" are interchangeable on the G.I. Joe logo banner, check Google. thumb|left|Joe Colton Banner Logo Please add it to the page, BanaBong (talk) 01:34, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

While your intentions appear to be noble, it is unclear why this logo would need to be added specifically to an article about General Joseph Colton. Also, this looks similar to a logo that was already rejected on this article, due to several sockpuppets of JHerbertMunster trying to constantly re-add it, which resulted in this page's semi-protection. Please provide a reason for why this image is relevant before adding it to the article. Fortdj33 (talk) 17:57, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done. Logo may be copyvio. Previous version deleted at Commons as a copyvio. User:BanaBong is a probable sock of JHerbertMunster. I have reopened the investigation Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JHerbertMunster. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 19:19, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment. User indeffed per checkuser. Abusing multilpe accounts. See SPI above. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 21:46, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Middle Name?

Can anyone please provide a reference that confirms the character's middle name? One user has changed the information on this article and several others, so that his name reads Joseph Brady Colton, yet both of his file cards simply state Joseph B. Colton, and I have not found any references to Brady anywhere else on the web. I've left it here for now to avoid an edit war, but if the middle name cannot be confirmed, it should be reverted to his middle initial only. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:37, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

It may have been added because of the IMDB character page states it http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0258003/

Google brings up allot of results just search it in quotations.

I appreciate your effort, but your reasoning is flawed. First of all, IMDB is fine as an external link, but it has not been proven to be a reliable source for article content. Case in point, the page that you provide a link to, states at the top "The content of this page was created by users. It has not been screened or verified by IMDb staff."

Secondly, the information presented there is credited to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Joseph_Colton, which is an EXACT copy of the info in this article that is currently being disputed! It also copies information from General Colton's profile at www.myuselessknowledge.com, which does NOT list his middle name as Brady (in fact it erroneously lists his middle initial as R).

And of course if you Google "Joseph Brady Colton" you will find several blogs and other wikis that list this information, but those cannot be used as reliable sources. All of this is original research, and none of it proves General Colton's middle name to be anything other than the B. that is on his file card. Fortdj33 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Ok, and nice indent thingy anyway I will take a look myself and see if I can dig anything up... I myself am also interested in finding this out. Someone also edited the article in the past to have the middle name Blake which the only reference to that I can find is that one of his authors in the comic book has a surname Blake so idk. The results themselves still seem odd though that people just seem to know this is his middle name without any verifiable sources. Will edit back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.151.246.199 (talk) 17:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually I don't think it is "B" at all, in fact I think his middle name might be "Robert" check this link http://us.fotolog.com/hasashimaru/13311258/ That would support your reasoning of Joseph R. Colton which brings up just as many search results. Is it possible that there are multiple versions of the character? Wait scratch that it has to be "B" because it is on the official file card from Hasbro. There must be multiple versions of the character then right?

Here I believe it has to do with his team mate Wild Bill G.I. Joe who was born in Brady, Texas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_%28G.I._Joe%29 Several of the G.I. Joe characters have a birthplace there I guess. 141.151.246.199 (talk) 18:13, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually yep that is correct they get it from William Brady (Wild Bill) http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/joe/characters/wildbill.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.151.246.199 (talk) 18:14, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

You are correct being that the Joe's roots are in Brady see here [Back to their Roots] "Chapter One- Brady, Texas It was a very early morning at the Pit, which was home to the world's best soldiers the GI Joe." it would only make sense that the original G.I. Joe would pay homage to that. 141.151.245.202 (talk) 18:37, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Wild Bill being born in Brady, Texas may be a coincidence, but making a connection between that and General Colton's middle name, is pure original research! Unless a reliable source can be provided, the middle name should be reverted. Fortdj33 (talk) 19:05, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Look at the links he provided and the one I posted, Brady, Texas is not just a coincidence. It is also Wild Bills nickname. 141.151.245.202 (talk) 19:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The link that was provided is for G.I. Joe fan fiction. It has absolutely nothing to do with Joseph Colton, and absolutely cannot be considered a reliable source. Fortdj33 (talk) 20:29, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

His name is now confirmed as "Joseph B. Colton" as of recent citation on MTV, please see below.

Suggested Edits

I would just like to suggest that General Colton's personal quote be moved to his info box as a motto if that is possible as having to quotes in his profile is rather plagiarized considering most of that is just copied from the file card.

I agree that two quotes for the same character is unnecessary. I removed the quote from President Kennedy, since he is already mentioned in the Profile section anyway, and the quote is not actually on the filecard as it was indicated. Fortdj33 (talk) 20:35, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Well I disagree with that because your just copying and pasting the whole file card which is already linked in the references. So why not keep the Kennedy quote from here http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/salmon/969/Joe_Commanders/GIJoe_Colton/gijoe.htm and reference it. I mean I have never a Wikipedia article where they just plagiarize like that, and I thought it was against Wiki standards? 141.151.245.202 (talk) 21:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

The article should also be distinguished from the MAJOR General Roger_B._Colton as that could be confusing to some. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.151.247.70 (talk) 21:52, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I reinstated the Kennedy quote with the reference above. But I do not believe that the quote from the filecard needs to be moved to the infobox, because other G.I. Joe characters have their "motto" as part of their Profile section. And distinguishing this article from Roger B. Colton is unnecessary, because anyone trying to find an article about the WW II general, is unlikely to type in "Joseph Colton" as a search term. Perhaps a disambiguation page for General Colton should be created instead. Fortdj33 (talk) 23:01, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move and edits

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was closed as initiated by a sock. If anyone feels that a move is necessary, please start a new request. --regentspark (comment) 20:10, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

General Joseph Colton → General Joseph B. Colton – Place here your rationale for the proposed page name change, ideally referring to applicable naming convention policies and guidelines, and providing evidence in support where appropriate. There are many pages that redirect here, I feel by moving the article to something more ambiguous as Joseph B. Colton we would not need those less ambiguous redirection which can just lead you in circles. General Joseph B. Colton is a better match to Wikipedia naming conventions as well. The dispute is over whether his middle name is Brady not whether the initial is B. which all sides agree on. There is not one reason this page should not be moved. PurpleSteak (talk) 11:35, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - The character is referred to in all G.I. Joe media as "Joe Colton" or "General Colton" and sometimes "General Joe Colton". The middle initial is only included on the profile, because it is on his filecard. All of the redirects containing the B. or Brady were created within the last few days, by sock puppets of someone who is trying to push their POV on this Wikipedia article. "General Joseph Colton" is an adequate title for this article, and no further disambiguation is needed. Fortdj33 (talk) 12:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
• Then why does General Joseph Colton oddly yield a significantly less number of search results on Google than Joseph B. Colton? And for that matter why would the official file card from Hasbro state his name as "Joseph B. Colton" if that was not his name? Because you are talking of his Transformers alter-ego so you want to contribute that information than take it to the transformers wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PurpleSteak (talk • contribs) 12:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1683336/gi-joe-retaliation-bruce-willis.jhtml There we go the a second reliable source of his middle initial. There should be no contest to the article renaming now, because if MTV is not a reliable source then we might as well just delete this whole article.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

John F. Kennedy (Character inspiration)

“ There are other men in the military---ones with higher rank and more experience and shinier medals---who could have been selected to lead this new force. Some of them may even be better soldiers than Lt. Colton. But what this country needs now, even more than good soldiers, are great heroes. ” — 35th U.S. President John F. Kennedy

General Colton's inspiration originates from former president John F. Kennedy's creation of the Navy SEAL Team's that are still active today. Kennedy is not the only president portrayed as a G.I. Joe action figure, other president's include Dwight D. Eisenhower and Theodore Roosevelt.

When Colton is ordered to Washington D.C., he is amazed to find the president. Understanding Colton's responsibility to his men, President Kennedy states he has larger responsibilities for Colton and leaves him with the quote, "I was impressed with your devotion; to honor the request of a dead man. I know I can trust you to do the right thing."

Well since the movie information I have provided is uncontested and agreed upon by both of us. YOU yeah YOU fortdj33 have to give an effort to help improve my new section which I HAVE provided refrences for. Make an effort here and check the reference, you can see it states the specific comic book issue and is thus far the BEST reference provided for this article so far. It is NOT original research see the reflist!

Including the quote by President Kennedy is one thing, if it is properly formatted, and placed in the appropriate section of the article. But statements such as "unmistakably influenced" are blatant point of view, and saying that the character is inspired by President Kennedy, based on your interpretation of dialogue from a comic book, is pure original research. Also, YOJOE.com has been disputed as a reliable source. It has been used for toy information on other G.I. Joe character articles, but there are other websites that are better suited for referencing comic books. Fortdj33 (talk) 13:46, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

There that is a little better for us to respond to each other. Now I understand what you are saying, you are right specifically with me saying unmistakably... Here I worded it a little better and noted the abcnews reference, is it good now? If you would read the sources once again none of that is POV, it is more factual and relvant than most of the poorly cited comic references in the article anyway. So I see no contest to the addition of this completed section then? I will give you a chance to respond, if you do not I will assume your apathy.

First of all, changing your posts in a talk page discussion, after they have already been responded to, makes it difficult for anyone to understand what is being talked about. Secondly, just because I didn't respond here within a time frame of your choosing, does not mean that a consensus has been reach, and does not entitle you to reinsert your POV on the article. Continuing to edit or revert disputed material while ignoring talk page discussions, is considered disruptive editing, and is not constructive or helpful. And in regards to your source for the JFK G.I. Joe doll, that has absolutely nothing to do with the character General Joseph Colton, and does not belong in this article. Fortdj33 (talk) 16:09, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit Warring

You guys do realize in your childish disruptive edit warring of this article you have now neglected to even re-add his personal motto. You need to re-add the personal motto and Kennedy quote to before the edit warring started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.218.45 (talk) 01:18, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

• I removed that on purpose. This is an encyclopedia, not a fan site. Drmies (talk) 01:21, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

This entire site is ridiculous most of what is on the page is unsourced, what is the need for the fan fiction? None of that is encyclopedic either. I also tried to remove the movie info box and plagiarized image before, only to be reverted several times and told I was edit warring. Also, why does his info box state "Joseph B. Colton" but it will not state it directly in the page. It is so absurd how you guys can control the point of view with this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.218.45 (talk) 01:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, don't cite an MTV interview with Bruce Willis? Are you kidding he is portraying General Joseph B. Colton in the new movie, are you retarded? I am quite certain he is more of a relevant source to GI Joe than any of you, let me tell you dude your a real GI Joe scholar, aren't yah? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.240.218.45 (talk) 01:59, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Bruce Willis is the real scholar, yes. Also, I am retarded and you really hurt my feelings. Drmies (talk) 02:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 9 May 2012

Could someone please re-add the image File:GIJoeRetaliationColton.jpg to the infobox under the "G.I. Joe Retaliation" section? The image was added before the article was permanently protected, and similar images have been added for other characters from the movie, such as Jinx, Roadblock and Storm Shadow. The image needs to be re-added before it is deleted on Wednesday, 16 May 2012. Thanks! Fortdj33 (talk) 17:17, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Inclusion of this image has been already declined by another admin. Usage in this article does not seem to meet WP:NFCC. It would be OK for use in an article on the movie it is advertising. I suggest you save the image on your home machine until such time as an article on the movie can be written. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 18:31, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I understand that Drmies has already remove the image once, and I asked about that at User talk:Drmies/Archive 29#G.I. Joe movie characters when it was removed. But it would be pointless for me to save the image for any other purpose, since there is already an article about the movie itself at G.I. Joe: Retaliation. If the image cannot be used to specifically identify this character in the movie, what aspect of the image would need to change for it to be acceptable? Fortdj33 (talk) 02:28, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

If you can fnd someone who regularly works with non-free images who is willing to support this request, it might be reconsidered. You could also post a question at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Finally, File:GIJoeRetaliationColton.jpg looks more interesting than the one currently in use at G.I. Joe: Retaliation. Consider using this image to replace the logo image there. EdJohnston (talk) 14:29, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested Portrait Change

File:General-bruce-willis.jpg

Bruce Willis as General Joseph B. Colton

this portrait was just released by paramount pictures, i uploaded it to wikimedia commons it is in public domain and should be used in the article SonyVio (talk) 05:45, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Didn't we just go through this a month ago? (see #Edit request on 9 May 2012). First of all, there is nothing about that image of Bruce Willis that indicates it is specifically General Joseph Colton, at least nothing more than any of the other images that have been rejected. And the image does not appear to have the proper copyright status in Wiki Commons anyway. IMO, the image does not belong on this article. Fortdj33 (talk) 12:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Cough. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 17:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I suspected as much, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt before I reopened the SPI. Thanks for following up on that though! Fortdj33 (talk) 17:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you and I understand your point about AGF but there is something about these socks that's particularly fowl. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 18:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

yanking g.i. joe toys with retailers

heres the site you can reference for that little change i made about the toys yesterday, i may have got it slightly innacurate but there are other sources this one is from variety http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118054684 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.235.229.149 (talk) 08:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I added this reference to the article. Thank you for providing the link! Fortdj33 (talk) 12:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Donald Levine

Creator G.I. Joe, is this at all relevant since Colton is the "original" Joe? 70.105.187.154 (talk) 04:23, 28 May 2014 (UTC) http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/donald-levine-toy-exec-who-developed-gi-joe-dies-at-86/2014/05/25/1a506976-e397-11e3-9743-bb9b59cde7b9_story.html

Not really, since this article is about a specific character, and not about G.I. Joe in general. Fortdj33 (talk) 11:51, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Is included to other GI Joe articles? Usually with literature is to attribute author or creator of works. So how not so relevant if create of "original" gi joe?70.105.187.146 (talk) 02:30, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Donald Levine may have created the original G.I. Joe toy, but not this specific character. The reference above is not relevant for this article, because General Joseph Colton is not mentioned anywhere in the reference. Fortdj33 (talk) 12:08, 29 May 2014 (UTC)