Talk:Gérard Depardieu/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Gérard Depardieu. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Untitled

There are now two pages for Depardieu: Gérard Depardieu and Gerard Depardieu, both with text. --Renata (talk) 07:07, 20 September 2002 (UTC)

No problem. The way to deal with this is to turn one into a redirect to the other, and merge the text. --Tarquin (talk) 09:16, 20 September 2002 (UTC)

This problem has been fixed. Olivier (talk) 19:16, February 12, 2005 (UTC)

The link for Les Miserables at the bottom leads to the page on the novel. Shouldn't it link to a separate page on the film? --Jenmoa (talk) 02:14, 10 February 2005 (UTC)

Found a link to the (non-existent) article on the film on the novel's page, so I changed the link here to match that --Jenmoa (talk) 06:22, 20 February 2005 (UTC)

Merge

I don't think Depardieu needs a seperate filmography page, surely only his more notable films need be listed, if all have to be listed they can still be accomodated on his main page. --RMHED 22:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Interests

Shouldn't there be mention of his other interests outside acting? Maybe something about his vineyards and wine? He is also co-owner of the restaurant La Fontaine Gaillon in Paris, and author of the books My Cookbook (2005), Vivant (2004), and Lettres Volees (1998). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.246.194 (talk) 03:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Untimely death

Because he's dead. Maybe more will happen now. --140.203.12.243 (talk) 19:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

No, he's not dead. His son Guillaume, aged 37, died. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:05, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Mass confusion today. Several people, including established editors, though he had died and made edits about his death. It was his son. I created a template to clarify this. After about 24-48 hours, it might be removed after the confusion is cleared up. Chergles (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I reverted this because I doubt it's a good idea to advertise to the mischievous tendency, and the wording in the template is ambiguous anyway. Hopefully it'll all cool down very shortly. --Rodhull andemu 21:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Divorce

Gerald's page says he divorced Elizabeth. Hers says she divorced him. Shouldn't the language convey who sought the divorce?

If it was by mutual consent that could also be said, or you could use neutral language if you think it doesn't matter who was initiated the proceedings, but otherwise, shouldn't the article indicate who divorced whom? At least the implications people might draw from one article or the other should be cleared up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.10.198.138 (talk) 22:59, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Other film

¿Wasn't there a cavemen comedy movie he starred in? I saw it.

It was called RRRrrrrr... and should be in his filmography

The film that discovered him was "Les valseuses" in 1972. It should be mentionned —Preceding unsigned comment added by Explosif219 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Career Section

His movie career needs to be greatly expanded! He is arguably the most internationally recognized French actors alive today and there is a lot more written about his personal controversies than about his work which is why he is notable to begin with. Aa1232011 (talk) 20:32, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Awards

Something must be done with the Awards section. It looks as though someone ran the entire thing through Babelfish translator...which very well may be the case. D. Guinness 02:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Director of The Count of Monte Cristo is according to this list someone named Edmond Dantès. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.195.62.215 (talk) 19:12, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

That is... somewhat unlikely.122.61.157.138 (talk) 02:27, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Alledgely claims by Depardieu's Agent

Will the honourable gentleman behind IP 87.67.143.211 post ANY KIND OF SOURCE to back his claim, or will you just continue vandalizing the article and removing content and references? -R.Arden (talk) 14:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Problem

I edit something which is the truth, and there is people who delete for to put fake informations. There is the proof on the Russian Edition of Wikipedia. Rmb009 (talk) 15:51, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Russian Wikipedia generally has low quality and at any rate can not be considered as reliable source. If there are sources on smth (even in Russian), they should be in the article. Would you please just add them.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:21, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Full protection

I've stepped up the article's protection level; to full for the next 3 days while we wait to see what happens as more reliable sources appear. Meanwhile, I encourage the participants to keep providing reliable sources for civil discussion here at the talkpage. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Just a note: that's not what you did, AFAICT. Formerip (talk) 19:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Heh, aopparently I only checked the move protection. Fixed now.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Residency

Currently the article says he is a resident of Russia in the intro and a resident of Belgium in the text. I don't know the facts of this but obviously this needs to be tidied up - I was wondering whether the intro meant to say he was a citizen of Russia? 90.33.209.237 (talk) 12:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Vladimir Putin has announced that he was granting him Russian nationality as a bit of a publicity stunt, which Depardieu has not requested or accepted. This is being widely misreported in the international press. Currently Depardieu is French and nothing else. Mezigue (talk) 13:54, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Please, READ the sources and references before making such statements or removing content. More than one of the references, including the executive order by president Putin (http://eng.kremlin.ru/acts/4833) clearly states that Depardieu had requested the russian citizenship just a couple of days after he renounced the french citizenship. -R.Arden (talk) 14:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

No it doesn't. It says that "the President ordered to satisfy an application for citizenship", which might mean a future one. In any case Depardieu has not renounced French citizenship and his agent has denied that he requested Russian citizenship. And stop issuing "warnings" and claiming vandalism when you know it isn't. Mezigue (talk) 14:33, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it does. It clearly states that "In accordance with Article 89(a) of the Constitution of the Russian Federation,the President ordered to satisfy an application for citizenship of the Russian Federation by Gerard Xavier Depardieu, who was born in 1948 in France." Article 89(a) of the Russian Constitution CLEARLY states that the answer will be given in a 60 days period AFTER the request was formally made at a Russian Embassy, Consulate or Diplomatic Affairs Office.

And it is clearly vandalism when a user is blatantly ignoring sources to impose it's opinion.

So far NO SOURCE whatsoever confirms your allegation that Depardieu's agent denied the request, while multiple sources confirms the opposite.

-R.Arden (talk) 14:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Gérard Depardieu obtient la citoyenneté russe Last sentence: "Today, his agent denies that the actor has requested citizenship". The version I put last sticks to the facts including this announcement by Putin. The version you and other new users are rushing through assumes that Depardieu has renounced French nationality - he hasn't - and even claims that he has emigrated to Russia, which is also clearly wrong. Probably this will be clarified in the days to come, and if Depardieu actually announces that he is assuming Russian citizenship, then it will be time to change the infobox etc... For now it is premature at best but more probably plain wrong. Mezigue (talk) 14:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Another source for the confusion is the Daily Mail article which claims that Depardieu has renounced French citizenship in the headline. This is dated 20 December and is in fact a reference to his declaration that he wanted to renounce French citizenship in order to get a Belgian one. But he hadn't. Since he didn't have a Belgian one nor a Russian one, it would have been illegal. Mezigue (talk) 15:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for providing the sources. I'll try to integrate them in the text. However, sources are clearly conflicting, as the agent's claims does not match the actors words, as quoted by the same source you have given. I'll add the information to the article. -R.Arden (talk) 15:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I have taken this out, since the whole message was superseded by the announcement of the President of Russia, but for whatever reason you put this back [1]. Also, writing that he is a Russian actor is not appropriate. He is a French actor, a naturalized Russian citizen.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

From the moment he became a russian national, he became a russian actor, by international convention. The same one that applies to footballers, for instance in the example of Raphael Schäfer, who used to be a polish national until he renounced polish citizenship and adopted german citizenship. -R.Arden (talk) 16:58, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Would you please cite these international conventions, and also Wikipedia policies which require us to write he is Russian actor.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:01, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I rather in this case show the extensive precedent of several other pages of similar situation: Raphael Schäfer, Kevin Kurányi, Marcus Tulio Tanaka, Adolf Hitler, Terry Gilliam, Elizabeth Taylor among several other cases i could quote here. -R.Arden (talk) 17:13, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Terry Gilliam for instance says "American-born British", which makes sense since his main contribution is in British cinema. Same with Elisabeth Taylor. So at the very least it should say "French-born Russian", and only after he has actually denounced the French citizenship. However, since this case is clearly different from the above examples, since he is 68, and he was associated with French cinema all his life. Look at Charlie Chaplin (who btw never changed his nationality). This is much closer to his case.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:21, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Calling him a "French-born Russian" would actually make sense, and i support it as a very plausible way to achieve a consensus. I disagree however that this case is different, as it is still a case of an individual changing his nationality (and being that, Charles Chaplin would not apply to the situation, as he never changed his). If no one disagrees, i will change text to your proposal ("French-born Russian"). -R.Arden (talk) 17:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

He still has his French passport, so you would need to wait for the decision of the President of France first.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:29, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

He returned his passport already, as stated on the sources. Also, a person's nationality is not defined by the acceptance or not of a state to recognize one individual's renounce, as there is no international consensus defining that, and constitutions and legislations conflicts over that. -R.Arden (talk) 17:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Hey the article has just been protected due to your ridiculuous antics, Arden stop talking out of your hat, he's French, lives in Belgium for the time being and has been offered a Russian passport, that's all. He is not even remotely close to being a "French-born Russian", frankly this is pathetic, good day! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 17:43, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

How is calling me pathetic and ridiculuous helpfull to this debate? Also, he hasn't been "offered" a russian passport. He formally requested russian citizenship. On worst case scenario, he would be both a french and russian citizen. However, as stated on a reference in the article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2251340/Adieu-France-Gerard-Depardieu-lands-Rome-renouncing-French-citizenship.html), he already renounced french citizenship. -R.Arden (talk) 17:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

First of all, learn to read: ridiculous antics and this is pathetic are about your actions.

Secondly, you're using ONE not particularly reliable source from its TV & Showbiz section, dated 20/12/2012, where it says directly underneath what you are claiming to be proof that he's now a Russian, Just a couple of days ago he was seen riding a scooter in his native country as he stocked up on cheese, deuh, France it is then for his native country.

Desist now, consensus is against you. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 18:08, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

You should learn to read too, or at least buy a dictionary, as native does not means your nationality, but the place where you were born to. Also, that is just one, of many sources. If you actually cared to read them you would think otherwise. And yes i understand that now that the hordes of IRC has descendend upon this talk page, reason has left the consensus and i am in a minority position. -R.Arden (talk) 18:26, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with CaptainScreebo. (212.7.192.145 (talk) 18:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC))

You were in a minority ages ago and you've had to revert vandalism (correct information) 12 times in the space of four hours, which constitutes edit warring to boot. Your opinions are worthless as you just prattle out the same old claptrap, being persistently wrong does not equate to being right. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 18:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

"Your opinions are worthless" How civil of you... -R.Arden (talk) 19:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

In any case Depardieu has not renounced French citizenship Mike Coppolano (talk) 17:44, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This article/reference disagrees with that: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2251340/Adieu-France-Gerard-Depardieu-lands-Rome-renouncing-French-citizenship.html -R.Arden (talk) 17:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

You shouldn't trust rags like The Daily Mail… (212.7.192.145 (talk) 18:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC))

Seriously, i don't know why i even try. Next you know, all newspapers are "rags" and diplomatic sources such as the Kremlin website are not reliable... Oh wait... We already went to that stage. -R.Arden (talk) 18:26, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

As I explained above, the Daily Mail - a notoriously unreliable English newspaper - 's article is from 20 December and is talking about the earlier controversy about Depardieu saying he was going to renounce French nationality. It was impossible for this to be true since he did not have any other nationality to fall back on. Mezigue (talk) 18:42, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

This OFFICIAL letter Depardieu, where he confirmed that apply for Russian citizenship, and that his request was accepted. He also said it would be to learn Russian, etc... http://www.1tv.ru/news/culture/223344 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.187.73.220 (talk) 20:35, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Good now you've locked it down

I was going to rewrite this bit to conform to sources and avoid spurious claims like GD "applied" for Russian citizenship, which he never did, twas an offer from his high and mighty mateys, and also use the sources correctly to back up what is being said.

After causing a major media reaction, and being denounced as "pathetic" by the French Prime Minister, Depardieu announced his intention to return his French passport and renounce his French citizenship.^[1]^[2]

The next bit about the agent is just pure hat, several sources (even the French one) say that GD had announced "Putin has already sent me a passport" as a joke, so this can be unceremoniously deleted, if you don't mind, and we'll take it from there. Cheers! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 20:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Just to be clear, this would be inserted after the Auchan blue link in the perso section, he *never* applied to Russia for citizenship, he has since been offered Chechnya residency as well. So now he's French-born Russian-Tchetchen, hope no more countries get involved or the infobox will break. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 20:32, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Please, learn to read, and after that, read this:

"In a letter to Russia’s Channel One television station, Mr. Depardieu confirmed that he applied for Russian citizenship and said he was “happy” the request was granted. (Source: The New York Times - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/world/europe/putin-makes-gerard-depardieu-a-citizen-of-russia.html?hp&_r=1&)"

-R.Arden (talk) 20:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

So Putin gives Russian citizenship to everybody that makes a joke without ever getting a formal application? He just reads something on the internet and thinks "lets send him a Russian passport"? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Like i said, he is not trying to be reasonable. He is just grabbing a lie (that Depardieu never requested the citizenship) and abiding to it until the bitter end. Perhaps Putin likes to randomly grant citizenship to every actor he likes after he goes to the movies, or perhaps our Captain here is yet again wrong. -R.Arden (talk) 20:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Yulia for your intelligence, I saw your apology at ANI about the IPA stuff, seriously with all the mess this user was making of the article it was hard to figure out who was doing what. And yes, this whole thing does seem farcical. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 20:48, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

According to CNN President of Russia claims that an application for Russian citizenship by Gerard Xavier Depardieu born in France in 1948 was done. Assuming it is the same Xavier Depardieu we can no longer claim that he got his Russian citizenship on the basis of 1 joke. Either Depardieu made this application or Putin is not telling the truth. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:52, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Oops... The CNN article also stated: The actor has not applied for Russian citizenship, RIA Novosti reported, sourcing Russia's Federal Migration Service. So Putin lied on his website.... or somebody who edits the website has screwed up.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:55, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Or nobody tells (a spokesman of???) Russia's Federal Migration Service anything (see below).... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:03, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, that is CNN saying that RIA NOVOSTI said that Russia's Federal Migration Service said... The weakest link in that hearsay chain is RIA NOVOSTI. And of course, it may be old info by the time CNN publishes it. Depardieu's letter as mentionned by me above before someone else noticed it, virtually destroys the argument that Depardieu is ignorant of the offer. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 22:04, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Can not help to think that RIA NOVOSTI spoke to the wrong Federal Migration Service spokesman... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

He would need a Visa to continue to live in Belgium next?????

Just curious... If he has no more French nationality in the near future he would be a Russian. As a French citizen he does not need a Visa to live in Belgium... as a Russian he would have to apply for one to just get intro the country (I assume)... And could that become a problem for him (getting him a/this permanent residency visa status in Belgium)? Thanks in advance Paul Pieniezny! The Daily Mail link is proof you can use Google for to create irony... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

The answer is yes, of course, he would need a visa, which he would probably get easily because he owns property in Belgium, and as long as he does not commit actual tax fraud - different from tax evasion. But I see a possible way he could avoid that situation. He may have said he renounced French citizenship, but at the time it really was impossible. He may have handed in his French passport, but probably still has his French carte d'identité. Otherwise, how is he travelling around, now to Ukraine? Without a French ID carte, the Belgian police would have to arrest him on sight. Now, because of Schengen, after 3 years' residence in Belgium on that carte, he can get a permanent residence permit and a foreigners' ID card for Belgium. Nothing in the Belgian law seems to indicate he loses that when he THEN loses French citizenship (if apatride, he would still be able to apply for residence permit, by the way). If less than 10 years resident, it can be taken away if he is a danger to public order, or has been living abroad for more than two subsequent years. If more than ten years, he can only be deported after an act putting national security at risk. Unless fraud is involved. I do not know whether openly playing with the idea of shedding Schengen citizenship but waiting until he got his "green card" (and yes, I know why that is funny!) would be considered fraud. I am not sure whether Depardieu would want to wait three years, risking that he would have to pay taxes in three countries during that time.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 02:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Depardieu is a French actor having his legal residence in Belgium. That's all for the moment

1. France did not remove Depardieu's citizenship yet (otherwise, where is the source?).

2. Depardieu never applied for Russian citizenship.

3. Ask your Prof. of International Law (I did).

4. See here: http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/filmstar-gerard-depardieu-von-putin-zum-russen-ernannt-a-875537.html): “Die Formulierung des Kreml, wonach Depardieu einen Antrag auf Einbürgerung gestellt hatte, wurde von einem Assistenten des Schauspielers dementiert.“

In English: The formulation of the Kremlin, that Depardieu had filed an application for naturalization, was denied by an assistant of the actor.

So yes: the Kremlin lied.

5. Lock this article once and for all for the rest of the month.

6. Ask yourself: If tomorrow, every country of the world offer Depardieu a passport, what do you do? Will you consider he's a Afghanisto-Albanio-Algerio-Andorro-Angolo-Antiguo-Barbudo-Argentino-Armenio-Australio-Austrio-Azerbaijo-Bahamo-Bahro-Banglado-Barbado-Belaro-Belgo-Belizo-Benino-Bhutano-Bolivio-………-Zambio-Zimbabwean actor? This is nonsense. Putin thinking he's God doesn't rule out international law.

(212.7.192.145 (talk) 18:02, 3 January 2013 (UTC))

Don't worry, we have it under control, totally agree with you, one user is crusading to insert this material and is about to get blocked, methinks. Cheers! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 18:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

"Ask your Prof. of International Law" Be more precise: did this professor (which one?) answer something (to which question ?) If so, what did s/he answer?

"This is nonsense. Putin thinking he's God doesn't rule out international law." Is there a reliable secondary source which claims that, because of international law (or for any other reason), Russian nationality or citizenship was not granted, to Depardieu, by Putin (or by anybody else)? (I'm only addresssing the nationality/citizenship question here: saying that Depardieu is a Russian actor is perhaps another problem: perhaps a Russian citizen should not be viewed or categorized as a Russian actor if he did not work as an actor while he had Russian citizenship/nationality.) Apokrif (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

OK, look at this: http://www.1tv.ru/news/social/223344 It does not seem the "Kremlin" lied. I would still object to calling him a Russian actor, however. By the way, as a Belgian I think his chances of ever getting Belgian citizenship were virtually nil even before the announcement of him getting Russian citizenship. The new naturalization law specifically excludes tax fraudsters. Not saying Gerard Depardieu committed tax fraud already, of course... --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 19:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

7. http://www.letelegramme.com/ig/generales/france-monde/france/citoyennete-russe-gerard-depardieu-se-dit-ravi-04-01-2013-1962402.php here a link of a french newspaper where Depardieu claims he has really his passport and does agree with that. It is said that he asked for being naturalized in Russia, he feels himself as a French-Russian. In our wikipedia page, the French page, we have change the page, saying now that Gérard Depardieu is a French and Russian actor. You should change your page too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickok (talk • contribs) 12:15, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess Depardieu's own letter is a best possible source

Here it is: http://www.1tv.ru/news/social/223344

He wrote it to the Russian Channel One, its both in Russian and French. He confirms that he applied for Russian citizenship, says he is glad that it was accepted, that he is going to learn Russian. And that he prefers countryside rather than Moscow.

And yes, he made formal application in the Russian embassy in France. Source for this: Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov http://www.kommersant.ru/doc-y/2101098 — Cattani (talk) 20:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

It is a great source. Best possible ever. However, again i must remind that this debate appears not to be about reason, but about ego and grudges. Were it about reason, this would pretty much settle it. -R.Arden (talk) 21:39, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I mentioned that letter some time before. The interesting part here is Kommersant, which in my honest opinion is a better source than some of the others in Russian. By the way, R.Arden, please tone it down. Do not make this a personal affair, and assume good faith. The world is not dying (or alternatively: dying faster) because Wikipedia is not as fast as the newspaper web sites. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 22:10, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I think in the end of the day it will be somehow clear that he got Russian citizenship, and while the article is protected for three days, we have time to wait for really good and independent sources (which are best not Russian, not French, and not Belgian). I would have no problem for this info to go to the lede, and for other details (whether he still keeps / going to get back French citizenship / got belgian citizenship) I would only keep them if there are 100% reliable sources (not somebody told someone smth). A more interesting question is assuming he got Russian citizenship and renounced his French citizenship at some point, whether he should be called French, Russian, French-born Russian or French and Russian actor in the lede. The arguments above that he should be Russian actor or French-born Russian actor I do not really find superconvincing.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Just checked a few languages on Alfred Hitchcock. I suppose if Depardieu were indeed to act in Russian films after losing French citizenship, we would have to include he is a Russian actor, but NOT delete he was a well-known French actor. Judging from the "Slova Rossii" in his letter, he will have to improve on his Russian language first (yes, that one is OR). And if he stays French? Every Wikipedia calls Barbara Brylska a Polish actress only, though she is mostly known for playing in Russian films, but her citizenship was always only Polish. The problem with Depardieu's French citizenship is that he cannot lose it if he does not have another one, French citizenship laws not permitting someone to become apatride. But Depardieu wants to lose French citizenship for tax reasons. So add Russian citizenship but do not delete French actor, and be careful about Russian actor, would be my viewpoint. Be careful about refusing to use Belgian sources over a possible attempt to still get Belgian citizenship, because the Belgian naturalization law was changed drastically per January 1st. Since he probably wants to be taxed in Russia, even 5 years' main residence in Belgium will not be enough for Belgian naturalization (you must prove economic participation). He will need ten years' main residence, after which the additional requirements are reduced to knowledge of one of the three national languages (no problem for Depardieu, unless he forgets his mother tongue while learning Russian) and some participation (not necessarily economic) in the local community - judging from the local mayor's enthusiasm about Depardieu living in his village that will not be a problem. There are still texts on the internet from Belgian gov sites saying three years is enough without any additional requirements. Depardieu was simply too late. I do not think we should eliminate all French, Belgian or Russian sources, simply because they are French, Belgian or Russian. I respect Kommersant more than the Daily Mail.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 23:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

And to continue OR, the Russian law requires (with no provisions) that everybody who naturalizes should renounce all previous nationalities.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

That is no longer strictly the case. The 1992 law provides that persons who have no ius sanguinis or ius solis claim to Russian citizenship (IOW having a Russian parent, or born in Russia) must APPLY for termination of foreign citizenship. Actual loss is not necessary. See Russian nationality law. Depardieu was fast-tracked by presidential decree on account of his citizenship being an asset to Russian culture. One would assume that the same requirement of application would obtain for fast track naturalization, though even that is not certain. It is academic really, since Depardieu did indeed already TRY TO renounce French citizenship. Depardieu by the way applied for fast track naturalization in Belgium too: same rules on being a cultural asset but with the Belgian Parliament having the last word. Not much chance of Parliament approving that, considering the reason why he wanted to become a Belgian. But he could wait ten years and apply for Belgian citizenship on the grounds of residence only. He'd need to register as a resident first, but he may have done so already - he needed to still be French when doing so. Can he reamain a foreign resident in Belgium after losing French citizenship? Yes, unless the law is changed (but the Schengen treaty makes it difficult to change the law) or re-interpreted (They could say his behaviour constitutes fraud). Can he remain Russian when he becomes a Belgian? I am almost sure he can, according to Russian and Belgian law NOW.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 12:27, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I though Belgian law requires also that the person applies for termination of all existing citizenships provided it is given on the base of residence. Russian law does not care, one can get as many citizenships as one wants. Not that all of it is in any way important for the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:34, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Renouncing other citizenships in order to get Belgian naturalization? As far as I know, that never was the case. Before 2000 naturalization in Belgium was so difficult and interpreted as a grace bestowed on the foreigner by the King for extremely good behaviour, that relinquishing all ties to the former country was perhaps silently understood. Legally, it was the other way around. Until 2007, any Belgian obtaining the citizenship of another country voluntarily, automatically lost Belgian citizenship (note the difference with Depardieu's case). First, this law was abrogated for all states except those in Schengen, later for every one. This part of citizenship law has not changed. No problem with dual citizenship in Belgium. I now notice that the Russian Wikipedia article on Depardieu says Depardieu has not applied for Belgian citizenship yet. I suppose Depardieu mereley intended to ask, but got warned that a fast-track naturalization stood little chance.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 13:33, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Great, may be I should move to Belgium then, since Dutch definitely require everyone to renounce the citizenship if they want to naturalize, and this become worse and worse. About what is written in Russian Wikipedia, frankly speaking, I do not care.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Intermission

I just came across the whole detective play of the day, I must say it was captivating! You guys — R.Arden and CaptainScreebo especially — are really good actors, you should turn professional!

More seriously, for my very external viewpoint (I'm a Austrian currently living in Britain, and I'm not even a registered editor of Wikipedia), i did learn something from the day, and I hope especially R.Arden got or will get it clearly too: if, at the end of the day, it is or will be right to say that Depardieu is Russian and applied to Russian citizenship, it was wrong to state it during the “The Battle” — i.e. before Depardieu's letter, NYT's article, etc. — because at that time, the sources were not sufficient, consistent and as reliable as a encyclopedia requires to be !, as other editors revealed, if I remember well. Please keep all this in mind ;-) for without that way of working, I think Wikipedia cannot differentiate itself from newspapers — and we all know what is the true value of today's papers, don't we? So if you are here not just to waste your time, I should advise you to think about it…

But thanks again for this wonderful play, Wikipedia is definitely the best place to get entertained ;-) (i'm not serious, don't beat me)

(I don't remember how to put a signature, so I'll go for this:) Your delighted (but quite all the same worried) spectator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.185.28.178 (talk) 23:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

References

^ Gérard Depardieu obtient la citoyenneté russe. Le Figaro. Accessed 2013-01-03.
^ Fears raised over health of actor Gerard Depardieu after he arrives in Rome in a wheelchair. dailymail.co.uk. Accessed 2013-01-03.

Could somebody delete the wrong and outdated information

...about the denial of having applied for Russian citizenship? Thank you! --178.10.15.223 (talk) 14:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I tried yesterday, it was immediately reverted. We need now to wait until the protection expires.--Ymblanter (talk) 14:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

When we add Russian citizenship, as we should, we should also rephrase the claim that he renounced French citizenship. Most people would interpret the present text as meaning he has already lost French citizenship, but that is incorrect: one cannot lose French citizenship if one does not have another citizenship already. So, Depardieus first attempt was void and he will have to try to renounce again now (if he will dare to do that now, because being only Russian might be a bit inconvenient if he wants to live in Belgium). I read the "local" article which is also given as a source for that claim, and cannot find a reference to actual renunciation, so we are basically left aith the Daily Mail. Not a very good source. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 15:46, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Why not ...?

..just say is a French actor naturalized Russian. Lets get started to do things properly.Cruks (talk) 15:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

It is what we've done in our page, look at the french page of the article, we have written that "Gérard Depardieu is a french actor naturalized russian" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.12.225.79 (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Dont tell me bullshit, maybe on the French page, but not here. Do it now.Cruks (talk) 19:07, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Please refrain from incivil comments, otherwise you may join two above users who were blocked for 31 hours each. Thank you.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me, what have you done? Are you ok? Just nothing, what a shame.....on English Wikipedia. Cruks (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Presidential Administration of Russia sounds much more encyclopedic then Kremlin

This was one of the strangest edits I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Wikipedia prefers metaphors over official names? I think Presidential Administration of Russia sounds much more encyclopedic then Kremlin (which sounds more journalistic (and Wikipedia is not a newspaper)). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 20:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I would pick into that fight, but it seems i already bit more than i can chew. -R.Arden (talk) 20:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Whatever, do as you like. It's just getting terribly wordy in that particular sentence to my ears. But alright. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 08:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, no, "...according to the Kremlin..." it's a cheap tabloid newspaper style, not an Encyclopedia style. --Victor•talk 23:10, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Time to Update

Please, wake up It is time to update this article like other Wikipedias did.
See: fr:Gérard Depardieu, es:Gérard Depardieu, de:Gérard Depardieu, ja:ジェラール・ドパルデュー, ru:Депардьё,_Жерар, etc.
And why it is still protected?? --96.233.28.235 (talk) 00:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether I'm surprised or not, but I think ru:wp are the one's who have got this right. Formerip (talk) 01:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the best option is in ru:wp, I think:

France

Russia (from January 3, 2013)[2]
-- Victor•talk 01:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

We don't generally do flags in infoboxes on en.wp. We're too modern. I was just talking about the article lead. Formerip (talk) 01:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I see, then:

France

Russia (from January 3, 2013)[3]
-- Victor•talk 02:20, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Starting to look silly

The decision to lock this article, probably a good one at the time, is starting to look increasingly silly. Alone among all major Wikipedias, the English Wikipedia continues to ignore most of the Depardieu's citizenship controversies. While that is bad enough, it's made worse by the fact that some recent stories about it are cited in the article, but almost exclusively the wrong ones, such as the outdated and inaccurate denial in Le Figaro. An administrator who locks an article also has a certain responsibility for it, otherwise it looks more like censorship than responsible administrating. The more time passes, the more it looks as if some administrators are at the wrong side of that divide. Locking an article, refusing to change it when the situation changes, inserting inaccurate information and leaving out accurate information, refusing to withdraw inaccurate information... This doesn't look good.Jeppiz (talk) 14:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree, therefore it looks like censorship.Cruks (talk) 16:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I have unprotected the article. If there is any editwarring I will lock it again. Be sure that any introduced material is supported by a wide consensus on the talkpage.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

NYT

Gerard Depardieu citizenship has changed. He became Russian. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/world/europe/putin-makes-gerard-depardieu-a-citizen-of-russia.html?hp&_r=0— Preceding unsigned comment added by Josrur1 (talk • contribs)

God, or whoever, whatever? I now decree you the citizen of Lumbago Land, how'z that? Do you live there, do you accept this citizenship, just stop with all this foolishness now, even if the Martians landed, issued him with an Alpha Centauri passport and took him to a dance on one of the moons of Pluto he'd still be fucking French! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 20:15, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

"In a letter to Russia’s Channel One television station, Mr. Depardieu confirmed that he applied for Russian citizenship and said he was “happy” the request was granted."

Like you or not, he is russian now, as far as his citizenship status is concerned.

-R.Arden (talk) 20:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

That article pretty much would settle the dispute. If, of course, the dispute was due to facts, not due to personal grudges, egos and nationalism. -R.Arden (talk) 20:10, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it's to do with any of those things. Just a desire for Wikipedia not to get over-excited. Glancing through the NYT source, it does seem to point in the direction that GD does intent to become a Russian citizen. But, for us, there is no rush. Formerip (talk) 20:14, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it states clearly that he ALREADY IS a russian city, as his citizenship status was granted by the president and he formally accepted and is already even planning on moving to a russian village.

About the desire for wikipedia not to get over excited, i tend to disagree based on what i saw.

-R.Arden (talk) 20:19, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

The question here is what do we mean when we say someone in Russian? Do we mean they have Russian citizenship or Russian ethnicity, or even that they reside in Russia. A fair case can be made for each of these. The same problem occurs with the use of the word nationality - in one sense it is equivalent to citizenship but in another it is quite different (Many British passport holders regard themselves as being of Welsh or Scotish nationality). I think at least part of this argument is occuring because the terms involved are not well defined. The solution I've used on WP in this situation is to spell out exactly what is meant. Robert Brockway (talk) 04:11, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Whether he should be called French, Russian, French-born Russian or French and Russian actor in the lede.

According to MOS:IDENTITY: When there is no dispute, the term most commonly used for a person will be the one that person uses for himself or herself -> Wikipedia should use that too. (WP:OPENPARA is not clear on this.) Since it will be unclear in the beginning what this "term most commonly used" will be for Depardieu... I suggest to simple call him actor and explain in the last sentence of the intro his swapping of nationality (assuming he will follow is word that he will give up his French citizenship). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Russian-French would be in accord with other dual citizens, but since he renounced his French citizenship i think "French-born Russian" should do. Also to note its for financial reasons (Hollande's tax laws?) and we can quote Putin: "I am sure that high-ranking officials did not want to offend Gerard Depardieu. But any high- or medium-ranking officials will always defend their policy of decision-making. If this was not done very delicately, it is an unfortunate occurrence, nothing more. / But actors, musicians, and artists are people with a special, delicate psychological makeup and, as we say in Russia, the artist is easily offended. So I understand Mr Depardieu’s feelings. But I must say that even though he said – and I read his statement – that he considers himself a European, a citizen of the world, I know for a fact that he considers himself a Frenchman. I know this since we have very friendly, personal relations, even though we have not met many times. He loves his country, its history, its culture; that’s his life. And I am sure that he is going through difficult times and I hope that they will eventually end. / As for the humanitarian aspect of things, if Gerard really wants to have a residency permit for Russia, or a Russian passport, we can consider that this issue is resolved and will have a positive outcome."Lihaas (talk) 00:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, we're not at the end of the story yet. I think what we should call him will depend on a few things which are not yet known - most significantly: will he take up Russian residence? (I don't think he can be considered Russian by nationality unless he does this); will he formally un-French himself?; how will he describe himself?

For the time being, I think all we can do is continue to describe him as French and note in the article that he has been granted Russian citizenship. Formerip (talk) 00:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

"Gérard Xavier Marcel Depardieu (French pronunciation: [ʒeʁaʁ dəpaʁdjø] ( listen); born 27 December 1948) is a French-born Russian actor and film-maker, businessman and vineyard owner" Happy Evil Dude (talk) 01:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

To me, it does not make sense. There are numerous sources saying he is a French actor and there are no or very little sources saying he is a Russian actor. And the number of sources in this case does not really depend on what nationality he actually has. Every source today says smth like "A famous French actor got a Russian citizenship".--Ymblanter (talk) 06:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

As crazy as it is in wikipedia, current citizenship doesn't matter, wikipedia goes by whatever citizenship was held when the person became notable, regardless of location. That's why, for example, American actress Charlize Theron is treated as South African. So to wikipedia, Depardieu will always be French. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 08:21, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

However "Theron became a US citizen in 2007, while retaining her South African citizenship" whereas Depardieu's whole reason for getting another citizenship is to relinquish his French one. Happy Evil Dude (talk) 09:57, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

None of that matters to wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Opening_paragraph Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 10:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Your link provided no useful argument whatsoever Happy Evil Dude (talk) 13:16, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not an argument; it's the manual of style. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 16:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Yo genius, I was stating that said Manual of Style doesn't say diddly squat about citizenship. Happy Evil Dude (talk) 22:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Have you read it? I t does. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 00:50, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

"In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable." Explains Brylska. That still does not say whether we can also call him "a Russian actor". --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 13:19, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

It does, and the answer is "no": Has he acted in a notable movie since he became a Russian citizen? No. Will he act in a sufficient number of notable productions to surpass or rival his achievements as a French actor? Unlikely, since he's 64 years old, but if Russian Depardieu ever racks up a filmography as impressive as French Depardieu... we'll see. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 13:36, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not so easy to get rid of French citizenship for a person born in France of French parents. So his declaration is definitely not enough and it's too early to conclude that he indeed changed the nationality.Alon 68 (talk) 08:22, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

And most likely, he did not and remains a French citizen.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:55, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Even today, Russian newspapers are still calling him a French actor only. When he has acted in Russian films (an obscure Russian-speaking film made in Kazakhstan before he became Russian does not count), we may reconsider. A French actor who took Russian citizenhip and also acted in a number of Russian films? Russian actor - only when his Russian film act was notable (no need for it to be a Russian-speaking part, I'd say, but others may disagree) and the fact that he is/was a French actor should not be deleted either, too many notable films for that. --Paul Pieniezny (talk) 15:56, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I think now he is a French-born Russian person. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:10, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

He even already got his Russian passport[4]. But I agree that it is more accurate to call him "French-born Russian" rather than just Russian, same as Google founder Sergey Brin is called "Russian-born American" — Cattani (talk) 09:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

For the time being, he is French. At least until (if ever) he actually renounces his French citizenship, calling him French-born Russian is wholly inappropriate. --Ymblanter (talk) 09:07, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Please discuss this based on wikipedia's policies and Manual of Style; your personal opinions are irrelevant. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 09:46, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Please don't call other opinions irrelevant if you disagree. And don't hide them, that is irrelevant indeed. — Cattani (talk) 10:16, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Read WP:FORUM; read the applicable policies; then comment. Your opinion is completely irrelevant. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 12:01, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Read WP:TALK; read articles with same cases; then comment. Your opinion is completely irrelevant. — Cattani (talk) 12:33, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Read it. And true — that's exactly why I am not giving my opinion. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 12:58, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Photo

AnonMoos (talk) 11:05, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I am pretty disappointed with the English Wikipedia. Stop this racism, please. Gérard Depardieu IS Russian now, take it or leave it. There are numerous references in the media, don't make yourself look ridiculous in denial. JackofDiamonds1 (talk) 12:33, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

racism? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 13:06, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

For the time being he has two nationalities, Russian and French. This info is in the article (and has been there for some time already).--Ymblanter (talk) 15:44, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion for infobox

The infobox has parameters for both nationality and citizenship. Why not give his "nationality" as French, and his "citizenship" as Russian? That seems to me to be exactly what his situation is now. Just thought I'd throw it out there. —Cliftonian (talk) 19:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

As, based on wiki's own definition of nationality, his nationality isn't French (if he were to live full time in Belgium, it could be argued this would be his nationality) Nationality affords the state jurisdiction over the Person and affords the person the protection of the state.. Really the only accurate way I can see us listing him is 'French born Russian actor' or 'French born actor with Russian citizenship' --Richardeast (talk) 20:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd vote for "French born actor with Russian citizenship", too, because it describes the current situation best. It can't be ignored that he accepted russian citizenship. However Depardieu doesn't speak russian, nore has he lived in Russia. IMHO calling him a russian actor is a mockery. He obtained russian citizenship because he is "good friends" with Putin - in what interpretation of law is this considered to be legal? Jesus Presley (talk) 22:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, the Russian interpretation, I would imagine. Formerip (talk) 22:37, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

OK; citizenship "was granted in honor of his cultural achievements" ^[1]. Just spitballing here - doesn't this make him an honorary citizen? Jesus Presley (talk) 22:54, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

No he's got full Russian nationality now, while remaining French also. Nationality and citizenship are the same. I put "French naturalised Russian" in the French article, and this is the version that has ended up staying there; I suggest the same here, with both flags in the infobox. Mezigue (talk) 09:26, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

i'm happy with French born naturalised Russian, so some play on that. We need to include it instead of just French anyhow. Are we all in agreement? --Richardeast (talk) 11:04, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

If we are talking about the infobox (as the section title suggests), both of his nationalities are there. If we are talking about the lede, the fact that he got a Russian citizenship is there. If we are talking about writing "French born naturalised Russian actor and wineyard owner", no, there is no consensus so far, and it seems to contradict the policy, as discussed on this page.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:08, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

With respect, the point of these discussions on the talk page is to arrive at a consensus, so dismissing a proposal from the start on the ground that there is no consensus for it is not very productive. I am not sure what policy you refer to: the page is a mess of claims and counter-claims. Mezigue (talk) 14:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Portrayed Obelix in 4 movies

And not in 3. IGG8998 (talk) 18:27, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I can't find that error. Already fixed? Jesus Presley (talk) 01:07, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Number of children

In the article, it currently claims that Depardieu has had 20 children to 10 different women. I guess this is always possible, and it is sourced to an interview, but I'm a little uncomfortable with relying on a single source for that, given that it is a fairly strong claim. Are then any other sources to back this up? - Bilby (talk) 03:26, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

The article does not claim he has had 20 children - it merely records his claim in an interview. I'm sure it's a figure of speech rather than the exact count. Mezigue (talk) 09:15, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough, but if it is a figure of speech our presentation of it is a problem. I'd feel much more comfortable if we had a second source. In The Independent there's an account which describes four children in 2011, but that's a long way short of 20. - Bilby (talk)

Yes, I wonder if we shouldn't remove this. Ths sentence has been translated from French to Russian to English and it's just one of many outrageous things he has uttered in interviews through his career. Mezigue (talk) 10:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Just to note that this isn't mentioned in the fr.wp article, and you would expect them to know about it if it were true.

Why? It's a Russian interview. In any case, Wikipedia isn't a source for Wikipedia, even in another language. Mezigue (talk) 09:54, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, if he has 20 children to support, that might explain why he is so desperate to avoid paying tax. Formerip (talk) 15:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

On the grounds I've removed the claim, but I have no hassles if we add it back if more sources come to light. And yes, the child support payments would be horrendous. :) - Bilby (talk) 22:16, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Time to say French-Russian in the lead

Given recent developments, with Depardieu accepting his Russian passport, it would seem appropriate to say that he is a French-Russian actor. He has not given up his French passport, so of course we'll still call him French, but stating that he is only French is not appropriate either. Quite surprised that some users revert "French-Russian" to "French" and call the change to "French-Russian" 'vandalism'. Calling a person with French and Russian citizenship is certainly not vandalism.Jeppiz (talk) 17:46, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

He is not a Russian actor since he has never acted in a major Russian film. Therefore calling him a French-Russian actor is not appropriate. His nationality is dicussed in the lead in detail.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I think we can consider calling him "French-Russian" once he is established as a permanent resident of Russia, if that happens. Formerip (talk) 18:06, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Neither of the two arguments above are valid, at least not in line with current practices on Wikipedia. An actor does not become a Chinese actor because he acts in a Chinese film. The lead of famous persons give their nationality, and whether or not Depardieu has acted in any Russian film is quite simply not relevant. Neither is residency, Zlatan Ibrahimovic is not called a French footballer even though he both plays in a major French club and resides in France.Jeppiz (talk) 18:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
The footballer example is misleading since a footballer represents a national team, and the lede calls him depending on what team he represents. There is no team Depardieu represents.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:29, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect, Ymblanter, I doubt an experienced user like yourself seriously think that we list actors' nationality according to the films in which they have appeared rather than their citizenship. Alexander Skarsgård is not presented as American even though most of his major films and series are American, Claudia Cardinale is presented as an Italian actress even though she was born on French territory, most of her major films were French and she has lived most of her life in France. The lead gives the citizenship of famous people, and I see no reason why we should make an exception for Depardieu.Jeppiz (talk) 19:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting that the test should be residency, clearly that would be wrong. However, we don't know what Depardieu's long-term plans are. If he is accepting a Russian passport as a sort of practical joke, then that would not make him Russian in the correct sense for us to include it in the first sentence. If he leaves France for good and goes to live in Russia on a permanent basis, then that would make him Russian, IMO. Only time will tell. Formerip (talk) 18:26, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

According to this logic, if X is a notable person who was born in A1 and was assigned A1 citizenship, but dreams on moving to A2 and then possibly becoming A2 citizen, and you are aware of these dreams, you cannot assign X any nationality since you are not sure about X's plans for the future. So you'll have to wait until X dies to make the citizenship situation clear. 2.135.84.168 (talk) 04:14, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

With his new citizenship, he is as russian as Tolstoy.

I'm not sure what's going on, but a small group of editors seem determined to minimize his renouncement of french citizenship, and acceptance of Russian citizenship for the purposes of tax avoidance. Instead of making cooperative changes, they are engaging in revert warring. This is sad and reflects poorly on wikipedia.

Even french wikipedia refers to M. Depardieu as "naturalized russian" actor. VVP has referred to his role in a Russian television drama about Rasputin, which clearly makes him a player in russian cinema. 24.91.50.90 (talk) 19:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

What really reflects poorly on wikipedia, using your expression, is using an insignificant fact to completely re-write a decent article, adding poorly sourced information and a lot of original research, without any regard to the policies.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Why is he still listed as 'French'?

He has renounced his citizenship [5] and, as widely stated here, claimed Russian citizenship.... Irrespective of the politics saying he's French is now simply factually incorrect. I suggest we change the introduction to a 'French born Russian' actor. --Richardeast (talk) 19:08, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a difference between "said he is planning to renounce" and actually renouncing. He is now travelling to Russia using his French passport, and he will use it again to return to Belgium (otherwise he would need visa).--Ymblanter (talk) 19:09, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Mind to show source for that allegation that he traveled to Russia with a french passport? Globonews Network broadcasted him flashing his Russian passport BEFORE departure to Russia. He received it by mail, which apparently was not so much of a joke as everyone thought. Also, he no longer have his french passport, as he traveled to Rome without it. -R.Arden (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I assume you have no experience travelling in and without Europe with Russian passport, and have very weak contact with reality as far as these issues are concerned. Not that it is important for the article.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:59, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Could you please be civil? Also, i am just asking for your sources, as they are indeed relevant (were they not, you wouldn't have used them in this argument). -R.Arden (talk) 13:39, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

From what I know, there are no reliable sources saying he has French nationality, as well as no sources saying he has no French nationality. This is discussed in detail on this page. In addition, I would like to state again that this is completely irrelevant for the article at the moment (except possible for one line in the infobox). Whether he has or has not French nationality, the policy is very clear that for the time being he has to be denoted as French actor. This is also discussed in detail at this page.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:00, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Please, don't change the subject. Do you have a source for what you are claiming, or not? This "completely irrelevant" discussion has been the reason for 90% of all debate in the past 2 weeks in this page, so please do not undermine it. Also: Have you got a source for your claims, or not? If not, just please tell us so we can disregard the allegation that he "used the french passport to go to Russia". -R.Arden (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Again, this question is absolutely irrelevant. I have never tried to write in the article that he used his French passport to go to Russia. If you write he has used Russian passport, it will be reverted within five minutes as irrelevant and unsourced. The more general question, whether he is still a French citizen (which could be used for instance for correct data in the infobox) is being discussed on this page, with so far predominant opinion that he is.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

For the record, this one explicitly says he has two citizenships, Russian and French.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:18, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the (french) news I watched tonight, he's already renounced his citizenship. This would square with the reporting in article I posted The actor, 63, who recently renounced his citizenship after publicly slamming the introduction of a new top rate of tax in France was wheeled out of Caimpino Airport in Rome by an aide.... And I understand he's going to live in Mordovia[6]. So, as I said, listing his nationality as French is now factually incorrect and we should remove. --Richardeast (talk) 19:15, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

No, we could only remove it after many sources would agree on it. We are not a news agency, and, in particular, we are not a bad media like Daily Mail. We should wait for several reliable sources telling the same story. There is no rush.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

As Ymblanter points out above, there is insufficient evidence he has given up his French passport and it would be much too early for us to make that claim. If a major newspaper reports that he has applied for a visa to enter the European Union, we might want to reconsider that point.Jeppiz (talk) 19:22, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

"Renounce" is a vague term anyway. Has he gone through the legal process of disclaiming his French citizenship? Formerip (talk) 19:21, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I think nobody knows, except him personally, what he is and what he will be and where he is going to stay in the future. He has so many businesses at the same time, that he will travel a lot within Europe and Russia. He wants to sell his chateau in Paris, he has his vinyards spread all over France and his film business. We just have to calm down and wait when he really gives away his French citizenship. This is the point. Maybe he will do it in the next weeks. Probably he will travel in the future with his Russian passport, asking for a Schengen + full EU visa valid for a year, because of his businesses.Cruks (talk) 19:23, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Voice of russia[7] In the end Depardieu renounced his French citizenship and was granted Russian citizenship by President Putin.

NY Times [8] French politicians and commentators have criticized him for renouncing his French citizenship

Euro news [9] Depardieu recently renounced his French citizenship.

Forbes [10] About a month ago the actor, who’s also a successful businessman, renounced his French citizenship and fled France.

I can send you numerous sources in French too (or you can look on French Wiki) - I agree there's no point in rushing, but if something's occurred, it's happened and there's little point letting an article be factually incorrect. We can always update it back later if he changes his mind and reapplies to become French again (if they'll take him!). As I said, he's no longer French and we need to reflect this. --Richardeast (talk) 19:54, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

The article has to reflect the fact that he was born and lived most of his life in France. Obtaining russian citizenship under questionable circumstances does not erase his french descent and cultural imprint. He does not speak russian, nore has he lived in Russia. These facts must be reflected as precise (and neutral) as possible. I suggest to rephrase the lead to "french-born actor with russian citizenship" (or "french actor with russian citizenship"), awaiting the development of the next weeks. If he stays the course being a russian citizen, it will be taken in account. Jesus Presley (talk) 23:06, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

It's neither here nor there that he doesn't speak Russian. He's a Russian national now. Putin oversaw it himself. The simple words "naturalized Russian" describe his situation exactly and should be in the first sentence. --Vividonset2 (talk) 02:35, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Here to you "reliable source" (use translator): ^[2] Even we have in Russia for news saying that he refused French citizenship. NightShadow23 (talk) 13:11, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

And here we have another, subsequent report in which he says "I have a Russian passport, but I remain French and I will probably have dual Belgian nationality." One source reports that he "refuses" French citizenship (whatever that means) then in another he says he's still French and that he'll have dual citizenship - Belgian / French? French / Russian? Belgian / Russian? Who knows. It's a muddle. Let's leave him as French, and Russian, until the dust settles. http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/01/08/arts/08reuters-france-depardieu.html JohnInDC (talk) 14:48, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

In resp. to all the above: We have a guideline for lead and natonality

From MOS/BIO, (my bolding):
"In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable."
Can't be clearer than that.TMCk (talk) 20:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I don't think that guidance is very clear. "Notable mainly for past events" as opposed to what? Notable mainly for future events? Formerip (talk) 20:30, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the post - that is perfectly clear.... but if we follow it to the letter does pull up another conundrum. As things stand he's a Russian citizen, permanently resident in Belgium, yet was notable when he was French... I still think we forget about Belgium and call him French born Russian. --Richardeast (talk) 20:41, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

(ec)::He became notable (actually famous) long time ago holding French citizenship only. It's a fact nobody can argue.TMCk (talk) 20:46, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, no-one can argue with that, certainly. But "notable mainly for past events" is the kind of unhelpful nonsense that can unfortunately be found all over WP guidelines. I would assume whoever wrote that to be thinking of people who used to be famous but have fallen into obscurity, which wouldn't apply here. Even if I am wrong, it just plain isn't clear what it is that they meant to say. Formerip (talk) 21:00, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

One can also be notable for the present activity, for instance, as a politician, or as an athlete. In an example with footbollers, which are prominent on this page, the policy means that if A is playing for national team X (which specifically for footballers means he has the citizenship of X, but he as well may also have the citizenship of Y), he is mentioned as X-footballer. If for example he retires and than changes his citizenship to Z, he is still mentioned as X footballer, not as a Z footballer. It is more difficult with the actors, but in general TMCk is correct.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:13, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Not true at all. Such as i demonstrated before on Raphael Schäfer, Kevin Kurányi, Marcus Tulio Tanaka -R.Arden (talk) 22:23, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

What is not true? Schädid not play for any national team. Kurányi played for German team and is called a German foorballer in the lede.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:56, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

I've raised this here. Formerip (talk) 21:11, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

"Depardieu on Monday denied he was leaving France for tax reasons, insisting that he remained French."

This was in the NY Times, toward the bottom of this article - http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/01/08/arts/08reuters-france-depardieu.html 68.45.14.5 (talk) 14:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

That article also describes him as "having accepted a Russian passport" from Putin, which seems like rather lawyerly language if "became a Russian citizen" was all it was intended to say. My take on this is that while reliable sources are reporting what the principals are saying about this episode, the principals themselves are saying different things depending on the day of the week. It appears to be a fluid and uncertain situation, and we'll only be embarrassed by putting something definitive in the article (particularly in the lead) before the dust has finally settled on this. JohnInDC (talk) 14:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Russian passport

Most here are using "passport" and "citizenship" intercheangeably, but in the context of Russia this is slightly misleading. Russia is notorious for giving passports to millions of people from former Soviet states, usually in the attempt to destabilize the country in which they reside (Georgia anyone ?). Wether that means they're actually given the citizenship is debatable.

The same way, Depardieu can burn his French passport, his French national card, French social security card, his French driving license (I think he lost it anyway for DUI), that doesn't mean he's not French. It's up to the French authorities, after a legal process, to decide, and I'm sure they could make it a very difficult/lengthly procedure if they wanted to. In practice most people that know Depardieu think he'll come back, and it's unlikely he has started any kind of procedure regarding his French citizenship. If there is a legal decision on the matter then it will be published in the Journal Officiel (http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/) just like all naturalizations are, then you'll get a source for the claim he's only Russian, but not before. Aesma (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Whatever the reasons Russia has for issuing passports, they are a proof of citizenship - I do not see how this is debatable. As for GD's French citizenship, you are correct - he still has it. The article currently states all this correctly. Mezigue (talk) 09:34, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I think a state can issue a passport to whomever it wants. I know WP isn't a source but non-citizen passports seem to be possible in, for example, Latvia. Persons who are US Nationals but not US Citizens may also obtain US passports (though this is quite a narrow class), see [11]. JohnInDC (talk) 12:21, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Collaboration with Googoosha?

How come there is nothing about his collaboration with Googoosha?

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/music-video-from-most-hated-person-in-uzbekistan-features-depardieu-cameo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.50.90 (talk) 13:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Err because it is inconsequential, trivial and undue in the bio of a film actor who has made over 50 films would be my guess. It's mentioned in her article, where it is significant in the fact that she is a relative nobody, trying to get her fifteen minutes of fame from this ~~atrocity~~ get-together. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 17:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Plane incident

I've removed:

In 2011, he was refused access to the toilet on a plane and urinated in a bottle that overflowed and spilled[12] on the floor of a plane prior to departure. The plane returned to the terminal and he was refused permission to travel.[13]

I'm very concerned here about undue weight. The incident got a bit of media coverage presumably because it was unusual and happened to a well-known figure, but in the end the story is a minor incident. However, in the article as it stands, that means that this minor incident is given considerable weight, as for some reason almost nothing is said about his career: he's made over a hundred films, and won or been nominated for major awards, and yet the career section is three short paragraphs. :) This is making it heavily weighted towards two minor controversies, this one and Binoche, and I'm not comfortable with that large a discrepancy. - Bilby (talk) 21:22, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Completely unfair. This is something relevant and current, and people who hear of the incident will want to find it on wikipedia. Such 'whitewashing' of a personality is one of the reasons why this encyclopedia continues to have disputed credibility. 76.10.138.19 (talk) 03:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Why was this removed? It happened -- I remember when it was in the news. --76.105.145.143 (talk) 12:39, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: "I'm very concerned here about undue weight. The incident got a bit of media coverage presumably because it was unusual and happened to a well-known figure, but in the end the story is a minor incident. "

I've had a look at a recent photograph of Mr. Depardeau, and I'm concerned about undue weight as well. I have to believe, however, that the "incident" would have got some media coverage even if it had involved only Joe Blow. I mean, really, how often do airplane passengers urinate in their seats? If I'm reading it correctly, the bit Bilby removed entailed a total of two short sentences. That hardly qualifies as over-emphasis. TheScotch (talk) 22:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess I',m concerned about two issues. The first is that the incident itself was very minor, in particular because he wasn't charged with anything, and it doesn't seem to have had any significant effect. The second is in regard to undue wight, and while two sentences isn't a lot in a proper biography, we devote less than 10 sentences to his entire career. So compared to how little we say about what he really achieved, spending any time on a minor and overly embarrassing event is a problem. This is where our approach to biographies hits problems, as we can massively over-emphasise events which embarrass or otherwise damage the subject by giving them equal (or in this case greater) prominence to events which really did matter. - Bilby (talk) 00:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

If you were concerned the article had too little about Depardeau's film career, then you should have put more in about his film career. You also should have achieved consensus here before removing what you did. This is very obviously not an instance of "massively" over-emphasizing. (Whether or not Depardeau was "charged with anything", by the way, is irrelevant as long as the "incident" is verifiable with citations from reputable sources. Wikipedia is not a court of law. We simply report.) TheScotch (talk) 07:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Generally, being charged is an indicator of importance. We use that to help calculate due weight. In this case, the only thing that eventuated was that he was asked to leave the plane. It was embarrassing, but doesn't seem to have had any sort of impact on his career.

And yes, I did seek consensus. I removed the text and raised it here. The almost nonexistent discussion seemed to indicate a lack of interest. Personally, I see no value in relating embarrassing minor incidents about people in biographies unless there is some indicator that they are somehow important, especially when the genuinely important aspects of their lives aren't being covered at all. Wikipedia doesn't exist to shame celebrities - there are enough publications that do that already. - Bilby (talk) 08:53, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

You are obviously arguing disingenuously--and tediously. I said you should have sought consensus BEFORE removing the material. Right now you are outnumbered two-to-one, and the one has no case. If you count the "filmography", there is a tremendous amount of information about Depardeau's film career against two short, succinct sentences fully cited and undeniably true and considered newsworthy by reputable sources. TheScotch (talk) 07:16, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not really inclined to count the filmography as significant - the important bit is that brief section called "Career", which fails to give any coverage of his many achievements over a long and varied career. I'd much rather see that expanded in preference to focusing on single embarrassing event. This seems undue to me, but perhaps others will see it differently.

In the case of BLPs, we can't rely on biographies being unbalanced while we wait for them to be expanded, and nor, where we see significant problems, should we always wait for consensus before removing questionable material. It is often better (as I think it was in this case) to remove it first and then discuss whether or not it should be included. - Bilby (talk) 07:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

If it will help, I'm happy to see if we can get some more opinions involved - I'd always very happy to defer to whatever the consensus is, even if it differs from what I thought. :) I can raise it on BLPN, if you like? - Bilby (talk) 09:57, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

I added a couple lines about recent legal issues. I left off the plane incident given this ongoing discussion, but I do feel it should be mentioned given its role in a larger pattern of behavior, though no more than 1 line. - Maximusveritas (talk) 17:36, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree. This is an incident that he has confirmed, it speaks to his character and self-conduct and should be on record. I should be added it back as one, short sentence. - BenzoTheCorrector (talk) BenzoTheCorrector (talk) 17:25, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I totally disagree, Wikipedia is not a tabloid and this is one, minor trivial incident that does not "speak[s] to his charcter and self-conduct", in my opinion. Okay Dépardieu drinks, it's clear from the following incidents that he has some problems limiting his consumption, the incidents are serious (motor vehicle offences, DUI, and assault). Whereas, the pee-pee on a plane incident is a ridiculously trivial incident, as Bilby says above: Personally, I see no value in relating embarrassing minor incidents about people in biographies unless there is some indicator that they are somehow important, especially when the genuinely important aspects of their lives aren't being covered at all. Wikipedia doesn't exist to shame celebrities - there are enough publications that do that already

To which I would add (from the BLP policy) "Biographies of living persons ("BLP"s) must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives". And this is pure sensationalism, oh look that naughty French man etc etc. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

this wikipedia entry

is the one of the most useless entries on wikipedia. Some stubs are even better than this. ARTICLES ON FICTIONAL CHARACTERS ARE MORE IN-DEPTH THAN THIS!!! Why was there so much attention shown to trivial things like citizenship, while there is barely ANY information on the man's actual career? This man was the highlight of French cinema and adored by atleast two nations, yet almost nothing is written about his career! DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.37.142 (talk) 04:14, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Belgian citizenship

Depardieu is also a Belgian citizen. See here. --Kantischüler (talk) 11:35, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

No, he is a resident only. The Guardian got the article wrong in the first place, and then messed up the correction too. He has "honorary citizenship" of the town only, which basically just means they had a piss-up in his honour. Mezigue (talk) 11:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, I don't know the Belgian Nationality law. But in Switzerland, if you are an honorary citizen of a Swiss town, you are a regular citizen. --Kantischüler (talk) 20:34, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

No, in Belgium the federal government decides, in contrast to Switzerland, where the canton decides.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

"likes both Russia and the Ukraine - which is part of Russia"

In this The Baltic Times article Depardieu claims " Ukraine is part of Russia". Should this be put in this Wikipedia article? I know he is not a politician, so I guess not all his political ideas have to be listed in this Wikipedia article.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:38, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I just found here that Depardieu did say in 2007 "I hold in high respect the president (Yushchenko) and love dearly Ukraine". — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Health issues

How come there is no mention of Depardieu's health problems? He had a quintuple bypass in 2000 following a heart attack. (ClarksonW (talk) 20:33, 6 October 2014 (UTC))

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wrong information? Most prolific character actor?

Gérard Xavier Marcel Depardieu (French: [ʒeʁaʁ dəpaʁdjø] ( listen); born 27 December 1948) is a French actor, film-maker, businessman and vineyard owner. He is one of the most prolific character actors in film history, having completed approximately 170 movies since 1967.

I am not certain if this is true. There are numerous actors who have done over 200 movies. Just check Wikipedia. Sandra opposed to terrorism (talk) 15:53, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

That's probably why it says 'one of'. Pincrete (talk) 20:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

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Rape accusations

Should we make note of the "Depardieu is a rapist" furor?

A French teacher of mine used this as an example of idiomatic mistranslation: supposedly Depardieu had said j'ai assisté à un viol, meaning he'd witnessed a rape, but the translator assumed he meant he'd participated in a rape.

But I'm not sure if this version of events is totally accurate. Can anyone comment? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.32.80 (talk) 19:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I absolutley remember an article about him in which he stated that he and others participated in a rape of a woman in a Paris subway station. His tone was not one of regret just matter of fact. It was in the early 1990's. I do not remember the article name but I will never forget that.-71.28.243.246 06:06, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Here is a link that isn't broken. The article cites a Times article where Depardieu supposedly admits to rape.

But then on the IMDB bio, it says the Times article made a translation error.

But IMDB is even far less accurate and credible than wiki!--TobyWongly (talk) 01:04, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Couldn't find a source that proves the translation was bad, rather than just stating it. It's pretty fantastic that someone would admit to a rape though. 70.66.9.162 17:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

At first glance "j'ai assisté à un viol" looks like it might mean "I assisted in a rape" but "assister à" in French means to "witness" something. See: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/assister-%C3%A0 If you paste "j'ai assisté à un viol" into Google translate it says "I witnessed a rape". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.168.135 (talk) 04:40, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Move to Algeria now - recent edits

The saga of Depardieu's globe-trotting vocation continues: he has apparently told an interviewer that he intends to live in Algiers. I have reverted edits claiming that he has already moved there, as this was not what he said. To be continued, maybe... Mezigue (talk) 16:46, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

[1] Gérard Depardieu obtient la citoyenneté russe. Le Figaro. Accessed 2013-01-03.

[2] Fears raised over health of actor Gerard Depardieu after he arrives in Rome in a wheelchair. dailymail.co.uk. Accessed 2013-01-03.

[3] ttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/04/world/europe/putin-makes-gerard-depardieu-a-citizen-of-russia.html?_r=1&

[4] ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/international/2012/12/121217_depardieu_france_passport.shtml

[1]

[2]

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