Talk:Feminine hygiene

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Untitled

Terms used to reference feminune hygiene dispensers

Expand it

It is much too short. Let us expand it to 10 pages or so, as it is an interesting subject. Zezen (talk) 13:09, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Change to article

Non-women including transmen, non-binary and intersex people deserve and urgently need representation in menstrual health. Particularly given they are groups which experience poorer physical and mental health outcomes due to things such as poor representation of which menstruation representation is but one example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fluid&kawaiiaf (talk • contribs) 23:54, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Absolutely agree with you Fluid&kawaiiaf. In fact, this article shouldn't even be called "feminine" as this term in itself is problematic.MurielMary (talk) 23:56, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

With proper sourcing, that seems reasonable; my apologies for reverting too quickly. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 00:00, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

That non-women menstruate is a true lived experience had by many people and should not need citation, but I will provide citation for those who are unaware of this. Fluid&kawaiiaf (talk) 00:07, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Suggested title change

I suggest that we move this page to being called "menstrual hygiene technology" so as to not present menstrual management materials as being exclusively for women when that is not the case. We could still have feminine hygiene mentioned in the "also know as" part of the opening sentence so that users who would be searching for menstrual hygiene technology would still find the article if the searched for it under the name "feminine hygiene". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fluid&kawaiiaf (talk • contribs) 00:25, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

If you think this page should be moved, it would be best to open a requested move to obtain consensus. Follow the instructions here to start a discussion. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (^Complaints|_Mistakes) 00:37, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Proposed Edits

We propose to expand on the topic of feminine hygiene and add the following sections with the following sources:

Under Costs & Tax Section:

We will summarize bill vetoed in California (AB 1561):

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1561) https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article149415934.html

California Assembly Bill 10: Feminine hygiene products: public school restrooms

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB10

Discuss tampon tax worldwide & good evidence in New Jersey

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-32883153 Study about benefits of repealing the tax: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jels.12188

History about tampon tax in U.S.:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/01/08/the-tampon-tax-explained/?utm_term=.92592486063c https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/03/13/theres-no-happy-hour-for-menstruation-tax-liquor-instead-of-tampons-lawmakers-say/?utm_term=.f1b7dfe6354e

We will add a section to write about social movements/raising awareness on menstrual equity:

http://menstrualhygieneday.org/ https://www.period.org/ http://hashtaghappyperiod.org/ https://taxfoundation.org/tampon-taxes-sales-tax/ https://www.freethetampons.org/about.html

Ereca (talk) 19:36, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

@Ereca: Please don't put significant new content here about "tampon tax" as that should rather go here: tampon tax. You can put a short summary of your new text on tax here but the bulk should really go into tampon tax. With regards to menstrual issues, do also look at culture and menstruation and see if it fits there. I think this article should pretty much just remain an overview article but the important new content that you mention should go into those sub-articles. EMsmile (talk) 14:53, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

@EMsmile:if this is just an overview article, why does it mention just tampon tax in the U.K.? I'm thinking if it is going to mention any tax information at all, it should address the subject in other parts of the world as well. Also, I would propose expanding the article on all the topics surrounding menstruation such as cultural stigma, prison reform, etc. Tmboterman (talk) 20:03, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Tmboterman I agree we could remove the UK example and just ensure people are pointed to the article on tampon tax where it's all explained. Also, there is no need to expand on issues such as cultural stigma, prison reform as that all belongs into culture and menstruation - we just need to ensure people are aware of that sister article. EMsmile (talk) 03:39, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@EMsmile: I noticed there is a section with types of feminine hygiene products, what do you think about adding a section with feminine hygiene intimate products such as feminine deodorant sprays, wipes, washes, etc. and potential health benefits/risks associated with their use.

Hi User:Livvylu was the last comment by you? Please remember to sign each comment with the 4 tildes which adds a data and name. See at the end of my comment. I have removed that list about pros and cons because it is not Wikipedia's role to provide such a list which would invariably be prone to discussions. Also you have used low quality sources, such as Quora. Something like Quora cannot be regarded as a reliable source when it comes to content about health risks. Anyway, each of those products is linked to their own article where its pros and cons can be described in detail and with good references. - I have also moved that content about activism to the article on tampon tax where it belongs. EMsmile (talk) 03:32, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposed text about environmental aspects

This text was recently added but then removed again (see here) - I think the text should be modified and then go back in. What do you think? The reason given for removing it was "this section has been moved here recently from culture and menstruation. However it does not belong here, gives wp:undue and it is very biased"

Environmental aspects

Women around the world are highlighting the environmental costs of using menstruation products containing plastic and chemicals, calling for increasing use of reusable products. Companies are manufacturing reusable period panties, cloth menstrual pads, menstrual cups, biodegradable sanitary napkins and other eco-friendly products. India, with one of the largest populations in the world, alone produces 1,13,000 tonnes of menstrual waste annually. In the global south, especially countries like India, also have concerns around manual scavenging where menstrual wastes are picked and segregated by hand, by people. Sustainable menstruation aims to promote menstruation products containing less chemicals and plastic. EMsmile (talk) 03:08, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

References

Naming of article

"Menstrual hygiene products" is now the term used by medical professionals in the academic literature. See here:

• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=menstrual+hygiene -- 1046 hits
• https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=feminine+hygiene -- 180 hits

If you take a look at pages by respected organizations such as the WHO and NGOs, they use the same terms. -- The Anome (talk) 15:56, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

• I gather that there is a disagreement on whether to name this article "Feminine hygiene" or "Menstrual hygiene products" or "Menstrual hygiene". There is also Menstrual hygiene management, a possible merge target. I see significant edits being reverted in pursuit of this disagreement. I was brought to this by the use of a {{db-move}} template on the redirect now at Feminine hygiene. I have declined that suggested deletion, pending a consensus on the article name. The Anome, Crossroads, this is looking like an edit war. Please stop moving and reverting, and discuss with any other interested editors and form a consensus as to what articles should exist at what names. I would hate to have to protect and move-protect articles over this issue, but I will if need be. Please follow Bold, revert, discuss gpoing forward. We are now at the discuss stage. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 16:30, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I am happy to stop reverting, and have no desire to enter into an edit war. I think this should be resolved by the usual means for such moves. However, there are several articles involved here, and I haven't yet seen a central discussion; perhaps this is my fault for not looking hard enough. Can anyone find previous discussion of this, and if not, where do you suggest we have the centralized discussion? -- The Anome (talk) 18:44, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I would suggest picking one article's talk page on which to hold the discussion, The Anome. It doesn't really matter which, but the most viewed of the lot would be good if there is much difference. This article would do as well as any, since there is already at least a little discussion here. Put pointers to the discussion on the talk pages of all other involved articles, and on requested moves for better visibility. Be sure to list all articles thoght to be affected at the start of the discussion. Would you agree, Crossroads? DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 02:07, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

@The Anome: DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 02:08, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I am surprised and disappointed that you, The Anome, made such a sweeping name change of an article without prior discussion! That's really not on. I am glad others stepped in. Now let's have the discussion here. Personally, I could live with "menstrual hygiene products" as an article name for this, but is it really the "common name"? If you check on Google for hits, you probably find far more for "feminine hygiene projects". However, perhaps this is slowly changing, I don't know. The term "feminine hygiene" does have an old-fashioned ring to it. Same as "sanitary napkins" - in my opinion. But I am not a native speaker, and I know that US English will be different to UK English here. I am the one who set up the article on Menstrual hygiene management, by the way. I don't think the two articles should be merged. This one is just about the products, and is a sub-article of the other one, isn't it? EMsmile (talk) 02:17, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree with DES's statement on how to proceed. I also agree with having the discussion here. I don't know of any other involved articles; Menstrual hygiene management appears to be a separate merge proposal, which by the way I oppose. That appears to make 3 to 1 against. -Crossroads- (talk) 04:22, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

If the consensus is that this belongs at Feminine hygiene, might not the same arguments suggest moving Menstrual hygiene management to Feminine hygiene management? Or possibly not, we are not required to have that kind of consistency. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 05:00, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

It seems that article is specifically about access to menstrual products in developing countries, and the sources on that, which are mostly scholarly, do use "menstrual", at least based on what little checking I did. This article is about the ordinary products themselves, so COMMONNAME favors "feminine". -Crossroads- (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: We should be going by the WP:Common name. Like Crossroads noted with this edit, WP:Advocacy should not be going on here. While gender-neutral language is a concern for some when it comes to a topic such as this, and Crossroads and I did recently remove "girls and women" from the lead as a compromise (seen here with a followup note here), the recent IP took matters too far. This is clear by a recent WP:Village pump discussion. A company like Always is free to remove the Venus symbol from its products -- a decision that has resulted in significant criticism, as seen here and here (and is not just a matter of the left vs. the right, like a few media sources have made it out to be) -- but Wikipedia follows the literature with WP:Due weight. And since there has been objection to the article being moved, it should be moved back until there is consensus for that move. This is per WP:Requested moves, where I will go ahead and list this article under "Requests to revert undiscussed moves." As for merging this article with Menstrual hygiene management, I disagree. An article specifically about the products should continue to exist. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:06, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Keep as Feminine Hygiene Products as per WP:Commonname and the relevant village pump discussion. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ● 📧 09:36, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

• Comment:Keep Menstrual hygiene management as a separate article. Menstrual hygiene management a completely different topic than menstrual products, which is about the politics behind periods and the provision of facilities. Menstrual hygiene management is more about period poverty and stigma than the actual products available. I think it could have some text taken from Period Poverty in the Mestruation article. Novalia (talk) 13:46, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree with you User:Novalia - I've just re-arranged some paragraphs in the menstruation article that deal with poverty; I think the section there should be trimmed and content moved to the sub-article on Menstrual hygiene management, in order to avoid dublication and too much detail in the overview article.EMsmile (talk) 04:51, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 23 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:06, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

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Feminine hygiene → Menstrual hygiene products – Queried move request. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

• The redirect issue also messed up where "Feminine hygiene" previously pointed to. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 04:20, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• @The Anome, DESiegel, Crossroads, and Flyer22 Reborn: And see discussion in the section "Naming of article" next above. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:53, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Comment: Anthony Appleyard, as seen here, I didn't request the above move discussion. I requested that the article be moved back because the move was contested. It seems you feel that we should have an official move discussion. I'm okay with that. From the above discussion, pinging EMsmile since EMsmile was not pinged in Anthony Appleyard's post. Unless "Menstrual hygiene products" is the common name, I oppose the move per WP:Common name. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 05:06, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as per WP:Commonname and the relevant village pump discussion. May His Shadow Fall Upon You ● 📧 09:38, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• If the consensus favors "Feminine" rather than "Menstrual " should this article not be at "Feminine hygiene products" as it seems to be all about the products, not the general process? DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 15:34, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I considered "Feminine hygiene products" as well since the lead sentence does begin with that terminology, although the "products" part is not bolded because it's not yet a part of the article's title. Depends on what wording is more common. And either way, "feminine hygiene" would still redirect here because the term "feminine hygiene" is usually about products meant to be used during the menstrual cycle or for girls and women to "freshen up" the genital area (and, significantly less commonly, it's used to refer to the underarm area). That's the process. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:49, 25 October 2019 (UTC) Updated post. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:02, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and this Village Pump discussion. I think adding "products" is unneeded, but I don't feel strongly on that. -Crossroads- (talk) 16:48, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
• Support - the majority of academic/medical sources use "menstrual hygiene"; "feminine hygiene" is a marketing term that has also been used to market deodorants and antiseptic douches. This has nothing to do with gender-neutral language, it's simply a matter of following the change in authoritative usage, which has now also entered the mainstream. -- The Anome (talk) 08:53, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
• Comment and oppose: The article currently contains more than just products related to menstrual hygiene, namely those so called "Cleansing products": Douche, Feminine Wipes (totally ridiculous products, by the way). From that perspective, the first sentence of the article appears incorrect to me ("Feminine hygiene products (also called menstrual hygiene products)..."). What would be an overarching term for all those things together, i.e. products that help with menstrual hygiene and products that are supposedly useful to "clean" the vagina? Currently the overarching term is "feminine hygiene", I guess, or is there another one? Or do we want to refocus this article and remove the "vagina hygiene products" and only include the menstrual hygiene products? EMsmile (talk) 15:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

I changed the lead to this. The lower part of the article clearly needs more material. I certainly don't see a need for both a "Feminine hygiene" article and a "Menstrual hygiene products" article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 02:49, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 27 October 2019

The article should be called vaginal hygiene and use neutral language in terms of gender to be inclusive of people who have a vagina and are not woman (like some transgender people and cisgender intersex people). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiversidade (talk • contribs)

*Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and this Village Pump discussion.EMsmile (talk) 02:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose: the article covers more than just the vagina. Jonathunder (talk) 21:14, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

This is a list of source ideas that I am considering to use while I edit this article, please let me know what you think.

• "The Care and Keeping of You” by Valorie Schaefer and Josée Masse

• “Periods Gone Public: Taking a Stand for Menstrual Equity” by Jennifer Weiss-Wolf

• “The Curse: A Cultural History of Menstruation” by Janice Delaney

• “A Study into Public Awareness of the Environmental Impact of Menstrual Products and Product Choice” by Elizabeth Peberdy, Aled Jones, and Dannielle Green

are those references freely available online? That would be preferred to books or other things behind paywalls. Best is open access articles. If you can, try to use sources that include information from a range of countries, not just the U.S. or Europe. Thanks. EMsmile (talk) 02:54, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Student editor additions

Hello, I am a student editor connected to this article. I would be interested in adding the following additions:

• Updated lead reflecting the body of the article
• Expand society and culture section and add relating image
• Add a history section
• Define product types
• Expand risks section

Jasminrw (talk) 05:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

That sounds great. Thanks in advance, Jasminrw. A better lead (summary) would be great. Make sure you don't overlap too much with content from "daughter articles", e.g. the article on menstrual cups could be considered a daughter article and has its own section on risks etc. Think of this one as a high level article which should point people in the right direction but not go into too much detail if that detail is available in the sub-articles. EMsmile (talk) 02:56, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

This new part is unclear to me:

Historical types of menstrual hygiene products -Cup -- So when were which kinds of cups used? Just that listing of bullet points on their own says very little. - I see you have used books as a reference. I am unclear on how those books can be accessed. Does one have to buy the book or is there a method of viewing the book's content free of charge? EMsmile (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

History section (content from Swedish and German)?

Did you see there is a lot of content on history of feminine hygiene in the Swedish and German Wikipedia. Would be great if you or someone else could translate and include that content, using Google Translate or a person who speaks those other languages... (I speak German but don't have time at the moment / the article is not at the top of my priority list).EMsmile (talk) 03:20, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

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