Talk:Fateme Asadi

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A fact from Fateme Asadi appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 25 November 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the body of Fateme Asadi was found 37 years after she was tortured and killed by the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan when she attempted to ransom her husband?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Fateme Asadi.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:41, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

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... that the body of Fateme Asadi was found 37 years after she was killed by the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan when she attempted to release her husband? Source: Mehr News – in Persian
- Reviewed: Hanford Engineer Works

Created by Mhhossein (talk). Self-nominated at 06:03, 2 November 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General eligibility:
New enough: - The article was 8 days old on nomination.
Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: The article was created on 25 October and nominated it on 2 November, an eight-day separation. – dudhhr^talk _contribs (he/they) 15:13, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dudhhr: Oops! I just missed 31st of October. I think we can just consider an exception here. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:49, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DYKSG: "The "seven days old" limit can be extended for a day or two upon request. If the nominator is new to DYK, a seven-day extension may be allowed." --Mhhossein ^talk 13:06, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Mhhossein: As the only problem with this DYK is that it was mistakenly nominated a day too late, I will invoke WP:DYKSG#D9 and Pass this nomination. – dudhhr^talk _contribs (he/they) 14:36, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

With due apologies, this article and hook need more work before being featured on the main page. There's a few related issues. First, IRNA is not a source we should be using for presenting contentious content in Wikipedia's voice. Past RSN discussions suggest it's a marginal source at best, and RSN discussions aside, a state-controlled news agency should be used with care where political violence is concerned. Second, the contentious material isn't worded carefully enough; some of it requires inline attribution. Third, "She is reportedly the first victim woman whose missing body was explored and recovered" is a very big claim, and likely unintentionally so. Finally, there's some issues with grammar, though these aren't enough to hold the nomination up by themselves. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:45, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: I have removed IRNA and it was replaced by other sources. Also which "contentious material isn't worded carefully enough"? Pls let me know so that I can resolve the issue. As for the third, it is a usual happening for the remaining of the Iran-Iraq war victims to be discovered during the explorations. However, she is the first woman to be discovered. What's so big about it? Thanks. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:24, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, do we have a non-state-affiliated source saying she was tortured in its own voice? The one I spot-checked yesterday said "according to..." though I am of course looking at it in translation. As to the "first woman"; you currently have no qualifiers. It's written to imply she was the first woman victim, period. Of anything. Which obviously isn't true. If its the first woman victim of the war, then say that; if she's the first victim in Iran to be identified via DNA testing, say that...but make sure it's qualified appropriately. Vanamonde (Talk) 20:58, 12 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: There are a couple of such sources like this one which exactly says she was tortured and killed in its voice. Also I have added the qualifiers to the "the first woman". --Mhhossein ^talk 06:29, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Restoring tick per previous review; AGF on Farsi sources. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:26, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: Thanks, but this page just needs to be promoted or transferred to the approved noms page. Right? --Mhhossein ^talk 08:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct that one of those would need to happen. I can promote this, but in reviewing it I realized that "attempted to release" in the hook is imprecise. Specifically, she attempted to ransom her husband; ie pay money so his captors would release him. I suggest amending this. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense Vanamonde, it seems more precise. Please take a look at this (also added 'tortured'):

ALT1:... that the body of Fateme Asadi was found 37 years after she was tortured and killed by the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan when she attempted to ransom her husband?

Thanks. --Mhhossein ^talk 05:37, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think ALT1 is accurate and supported. I think the first part is grabby enough and I prefer shorter hooks, so I'd suggest ALT2: ... that the body of Fateme Asadi was found 37 years after she was tortured and killed by the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:20, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Misc questions, comments

Hi Mhhossein. I'm working on copyediting this article per your GOCE request. I may need your help on a few things, and if I have any non-copyediting feedback, I'll include it below. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:08, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any way to access this link? If so, could you generate a working archive link? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:08, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm accessing this source via machine translation, but it seems to be saying that Asadi was buried at the Imam Reza shrine. Do we have conflicting info from different sources? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:08, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I recommend citing the original, Persian title for sources and then using the trans-title parameter for the English translation. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:08, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Firefangledfeathers and thanks for your time.

This url can not be opened from outside Iran and Internetarchivebot could not archive it, though it's not dead.
The Mehrnews source says Asadi'd 'funeral' (Persian: تشییع) was held there. It does not say she was buried there.
I will add the original titles.

--Mhhossein ^talk 06:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think my main question about the only-Iran source is related to the article text "are among the other pillars of this award", which is uncommon phrasing in English. Would it be accurate to say that those groups of women are "potential recipients of the award", according to that source? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 06:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that can be translated as "potential recipients of the award" based on the source text. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:32, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Page NPOV

The sources and their dependency was reviewed during the DYK process. Ignoring ALL the sources solely for being Iranian is not a valid reason here. I don't think the current status of the page is against WP:NPOV. Regarding this edit by an IP with edits only on this page, the mentioned source seem to WP:ADVOCATE the KDPI agenda. At best, the reliability should be assessed at WP:RSN. --Mhhossein ^talk 11:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I only say my first and last words once and that's it! I don't have time for editorial wars and speeches and I don't even know this person. I am not a supporter of the PDKI or any other party, look at your edits, there is no other source than the media of the Iranian government. I am very familiar with the regime's sites and there is no truth in them, moreover, I did not reject them because they were Iranian, but because they were government. If you have another source, either Persian or English, from neutral sources, please include it, otherwise, both the opinion of the Iranian government, which is the accuser, and the PDKI's sources, which are accused, should be included. Please refrain from distorting the discussion, thanks. 83.120.229.231 (talk) 12:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

83.120.229.231, can you find a more reliable source for the claim? VR _talk 20:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"I did not reject them because they were Iranian, but because they were government", "If you have another source, either Persian or English, from neutral sources, please include it";...I have already included Alef in the sources, which is both neutral and non-governmental[1]. This is while there are more of them, Kurd Press like Ejtemay. Also, I have raised doubts over the reliability of the Kurdish source. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:12, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PDKI own website is used to say they were not guilty...! --Mhhossein ^talk 07:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All the sources you mentioned have been quoted by government sources. If Alef Site is neutral, why does it say about itself in one of the paragraphs: ""An effort to influence and direct policy-making in the direction of uplifting Islamic Iran and realizing the goals set forth in the 20-year vision document of the Nezam"?[2] At least click on the "About Us" option on those sites or analyze some of their sources to know that these sites are close to the government and use the government's own literature? Whether we like it or not, most of the websites "inside Iran" are close to the government, and some who consider themselves neutral imitate the same websites or follow their path in an imperceptible way. In addition, I neither denied nor confirmed the way this person was killed. I also used the website of PDKI for the party's own answers, not to the entire article. for the standard of this type of article, take a look at 2022 Istanbul bombing, Where both the accusation of the Turkish government and the accusation of several other parties are written. If we come to a conclusion: neither of these sites you posted are valid, nor is the site of the PDKI trusted; So, in this case, it is better to give the opinion of both sides, whether it is the Islamic Republic or the PDKI, if there is a third party source, for example, a European source, then please give it. I'm not rating here, I'm talking about Wikipedia's neutrality rules. I said whatever was necessary and I don't think there is any value in continuing the discussion. Also The change I made is also consistent with the three main policies of Wikipedia (1, 2 & 3), thank you. 109.225.189.26 (talk) 12:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So it seems you don't have a reliable source for the big claim you inserted into the lead. As for Alef, it's independent unless you can find an evidence saying so. Please don't rely on yourself analysis of what "about us" say. Also please note that nearly all the media outlets are efforts to "influence". --Mhhossein ^talk 06:25, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have only put the claim of the accused side, not my own analysis. I am not responsible for its accuracy or inaccuracy, just as the accuracy of the complainant's sources is not your responsibility. good day. 109.225.155.124 (talk) 19:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]