Talk:Elvis Presley/Archive 34

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Assessing accuracy of Jewish genealogy

Re: the Jerusalem Post and Jewish Telegraph Agency articles claiming Elvis had Jewish ancestry, one of the more prominent genealogists of Jewish genealogy disputes these claims http://jewishgenealogytoronto.com/2012/08/you-aint-nothin-but-a.html

Presley was not Jewish. Yes, some sources repeat a tall tale that Presley's third cousin told 20 years ago to a Jewish biographer of Presley. This cousin said that he and Presley shared a very remote Jewish maternal ancestor (a woman who lived in the early to mid 1800's)

This biographer did no further checking on this cousin's story. She just reported it as "fact."

A detailed check of available records shows that this maternal ancestor was not Jewish. Presley and his parents did share a two-family house in Memphis, Tenn. with a poor Orthodox rabbi and his family in the early '50s.

I spoke to the daughter of this rabbi. Her mother, the rabbi's wife, and Presley's mother, Gladys, were close friends. Gladys, her mother told her, never said a word about any Jewish ancestor. Her mother said that if Gladys had any knowledge of any Jewish ancestor, the mother was sure Gladys wouldn't have hesitated to mention it.

Presley worked for the rabbi's family, doing tasks Jews were not permitted to do on the Jewish Sabbath. He did this for free. The rabbi, in turn, did things like lend Presley his record player and arrange for a summer camp trip for Presley. When Presley hit it big, he made a major donation to the rabbi's religious school.

As I often tell people, the true story of the lovely relations between this rabbi's family and the Presley family is a more important and meaningful story than a story about Presley having a remote Jewish maternal ancestor.

2600:1010:B044:453C:D812:6D53:4A14:4799 (talk) 08:36, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

You say "one of the more prominent genealogists of Jewish genealogy disputes these claims" but the source you provided is from 2012, 9 years before the articles you say it disputes, and six years before the headstone with the Star of David was discovered in storage. You need a contemporary source to dispute contemporary reporting. NonReproBlue (talk) 11:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

The presence of religious symbols like a Star of David on his mother's headstone, or Elvis being seen wearing a Chai necklace is proof of affinity to Jewish culture, but not proof of Jewish ancestry. For example, Drake's mother is Jewish but Drake has been seen wearing a Christian cross necklace. This doesn't mean Drake believes Jesus is the messiah, it just means he has an affinity to the cross as a pop culture symbol.

It's a fallacy that a contemporary source must be used to dispute a contemporary claim. What matters isn't that a source is contemporary but that it is correct.

Although Elvis has spoken publicly about his Christian faith (There's only one king', he said, 'and that's Jesus Christ.') and wrote numerous songs about his faith, he never once never once claimed to be Jewish, however "Christian" shows up 5 times while "Jew" shows up 6 times in the article on the desktop version which feels like undue weight being given WP:UNDUE. Additionally the main sources which are promoting this claim of his Jewish ancestry are from Jewish/Israeli publications (or other publications sourcing from these claims) which is WP:BIASED. 2600:1010:B01F:EA7A:ADE9:F5F0:A69:676B (talk) 20:27, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Here's the most recent discussions about the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_33#Alleged_Jewish_ancestry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_33#What_made_you_guy's_change_your_minds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_33#Great_great_grandmother_was_Jewish?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_32#Jewish_roots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_31#Once_more_with_with_feeling,_Elvis_Presley_was_100%_Jewish_on_his_maternal_grandmother's_side,_here_is_the_proof...

Here is the recent edit which rekindled this discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elvis_Presley&type=revision&diff=1030300038&oldid=1030105531 2600:1010:B069:C71C:6002:9753:9758:8BC (talk) 22:48, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I've been asked to comment about this on my talk page and can only say what has been said previously. The evidence that Elvis had Jewish ancestry is regarded as anecdotal and not very strong. It should not be given the status of fact because someone said/believed that it was true. Per WP:DUE, Elvis never said anything which would confirm that he regarded himself as Jewish.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:48, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

All that really matters is what RS say, and at this point they are pretty unanimous. Snopes has rated the claim as true, noting that his estate has endorsed the view on the official Graceland website stating "This headstone, which features the Star of David to represent Gladys' Jewish heritage, was placed at her grave in December 1964." The sources disputing this are quite old, all from before the rediscovery of the headstone, and are almost all sourced to the single mention by Nate Bloom in the article "The Jews Who Wrote Christmas Songs" (quoted above). The fact that the type of evidence offered to counter what Elvis' official biographer said contains "She told me that her mother, the rabbi’s wife, and Presley’s mother, Gladys, were close friends. Gladys, her mother told her, never said a word about any Jewish ancestor. Her mother said that if Gladys had any knowledge of any Jewish ancestor, the mother was sure Gladys wouldn’t have hesitated to mention it." seems like pretty flimsy evidence to offer up to dispute what several actual RS, his official biographer, and his estate state as a fact. NonReproBlue (talk) 13:30, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

When this issue has come up on the talk page (see previously linked archives) it's decided that the claim he is Jewish should not be included in the article. Is the biographer you refer to as his "official biographer" Elaine Dundy? Here is a previous discussion about the ancestry claims made in her biography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Elvis_Presley/Archive_31#Once_more_with_with_feeling,_Elvis_Presley_was_100%_Jewish_on_his_maternal_grandmother's_side,_here_is_the_proof

This has come up several times in the past. All these "sources" lead back to one source: Presley's third cousin Oscar Tackett as quoted by Elaine Dundy in her book, Elvis and Gladys. The Tackett family genealogy calls into question whether Presley's alleged maternal great-great grandmother, Nancy J. Burdine Tackett, even existed: they have been unable to find any record of her, much less any indication that she was Jewish. Dundy's racialist theory of Presley's "Jewish strain supplying spectacular showmanship," along with her credulous acceptance of one person's hearsay as fact, makes her an unreliable source as well. Thus, the assertion of Presley's Jewishness does not belong in the body of the article.

If this source of the claim is invalid, then so too are the sources derived from it that parrot the same claim. ClearSeawater (talk) 01:31, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

That discussion is from 2013, well before RS started covering this as confirmed. We are not in the business of referencing 8 year old comments by editors as acceptable disproof of RS. If you can find a current RS that disputes it I would love to see it, but right now we have numerous RS (Snopes, Haaretz, JTA, his biographer, his estate, several more) from 2018 up to now saying it is true, and one off handed mention by Nate Bloom in 2012 saying that it’s not. It would be incredibly WP:UNDUE weight to place a single brief mention from 9 years ago (that may not have even been published in a RS) above what numerous RS currently say. Old discussions from before recent revelations (i.e. the headstone), when RS were not unanimously reporting this as true, bear very little weight now. We don’t evaluate the claims that RS make to determine if we think they are true, we accurately report what RS say, and this is what they say. Like I said, i would love to see if you have any current RS that dispute the claim. But not interested in the random old quotes by editors that just seem like Original Research. NonReproBlue (talk) 07:55, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Every discussion about this issue in the talk page archives has concluded that the claim of him being of Jewish descent is just that, it's a claim, nothing more. ClearSeawater (talk) 12:45, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

All of those are old discussions from before the current RS. Note the comment directly after the one you quoted: "YUp - we've been through all this before, and the sources simply aren't credible enough. Unless and until new and better sources are found, there is nothing to discuss." That is exactly what has happened. New and better sources became available. Back then, there weren't sufficient RS to justify it. Now there are. There is new reporting in multiple strong RS. Those old discussions, and your assertion that "it's a claim, nothing more" (without citing any additional sources, or any Wikipedia policy) is not enough to say that RS like Snopes are wrong about this. Only RS can counter RS, and no current RS exist to dispute this. NonReproBlue (talk) 12:50, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm coming across as irritating throughout this dispute, I just care about being accurate. The new sources are just repeating the same claim which does not make that claim any more true. These sources all draw from the claim made by Oscar Tackitt, whose family disputes it https://web.archive.org/web/20170513161807/https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/mansell/878/. Let's wait for more editors to join the thread. ClearSeawater (talk) 14:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

The disputed edit (I am assuming it is this one [1]) is sensationalist and unencyclopedic, in my opinion, even if the sourcing is legitimate. And I'd note that the source cited doesn't really support what the edit claims anyway. It makes it clear that while Elvis may have had some Jewish heritage, there really isn't sufficient evidence to suggest that either he or his mother considered themselves Jewish. The headstone had "a Star of David on one side and a cross on the other". Beyond that, the Jerusalem Post is reporting the opinions of Marchese, on the question. And Marchese makes it clear that it is 'Jewish heritage' that is being discussed, not Elvis or Elvis's mother being unequivocally Jewish. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:14, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah - I was struggling to find the words to say what you succinctly pointed out. For that edit, I agree that the source doesn't support what the edit is claiming. Also - that's a nuanced point you brought up, it's not the subject of Elvis or his mother being Jewish which was actually being discussed. ClearSeawater (talk) 14:22, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I agree that there is not sufficient evidence to suggest that Elvis considered himself Jewish (he probably didn't, at least not religiously), and our page, as far as I can tell, has never said that. I also agree that flat out stating that his mother was Jewish is not especially supported by the sources. I could see an argument for (and would support) changing "In 2021, it was revealed that Elvis' mother was Jewish after a headstone..." to "In 2021, it was confirmed that Elvis' mother had Jewish ancestry after a headstone..." as this would bring it in line with the way the RS describe it. However, I can see no rational or policy based reason for removing the entire mention, disregarding what multiple RS state, based only on editors' assertions that the RS are wrong. The only (possibly) RS source disputing it is from 2012, and cannot be used to discount sources from 2021 that are referencing information that was unavailable in 2012. NonReproBlue (talk) 14:58, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I could even see a case for "In 2021 it was reported that Elvis's mother...", though I would still think that the terminology used by the source would be preferable. NonReproBlue (talk) 15:28, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

The undisputed fact is that Elvis mothers tombstone has a Star of David on it. That is a physical fact. It is now placed at the mediation garden. For any visitors to that grave site or for any readers to this page, they would for sure gain value with that information added to the page. So argue what you may regarding if Elvis was Jewish or not (it seems there is enough reliable sources), the placing of a Star of David on a tombstone is a Jewish identifier and Jewish marker and it should be added to the page as a relevant piece of encyclopedic knowledge. I would also like to see the fact that he wore Star of David and Chai necklace around his neck, also both prominent displays of Jewish identity and interesting. The fact that he wore those necklaces is undeniable. It's an embarrassment to this page and our community, when I and other readers do research on Elvis - especially after the 2022 movie which displays the actor with a Star of David necklace - and come to the Wikipedia and see no mention of it but then clearly find that that information in other reliable sources. It means that the Elvis page is lacking information. I would support "In 2021, it was confirmed that Elvis' mother had Jewish ancestry after a headstone..." Q2Learn (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Elvis has sold more than one billion records

Having sold over 500 million records worldwide, Presley is recognized as the best-selling solo music artist of all time by Guinness World Records. ( this is wrong)

PLEASE CHANGE TO Having sold over one billion records worldwide, Presley is recognized as the best-selling solo music artist of all time by Guinness World Records.

From the graceland website

RECORD SALES It is estimated that more than one billion Elvis Presley records have been sold worldwide. From his early sessions at Sun Records to the end of his career and beyond, Elvis albums and singles enjoyed strong sales across every format–vinyl, cassette, CD and digital. In America alone, Elvis has had 150 different albums and singles that have been certified gold, platinum or multi-platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), with more certifications expected as research into his past record sales continues and as current sales go on. It is estimated that 40% of Elvis Presley records have been sold outside the United States.

from a forbes article

Elvis Is Back With New Money Maker As U.S. Album Certifications Total 146.5 Million Mark Beech

The Elvis cash machine is spinning while his record company, Sony , says that his U.S. album sales alone have now exceeded 146.5 million. That figure is just part of the more than a billion records sold worldwide, making him the best-selling solo artist of all time. It seems we are still stuck on Elvis.

32.209.183.254 (talk) 14:19, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Elvis has sold more than one billion records

 Multiple sources state this

From sony records

https://www.sony.com/content/sony/en/en_us/SCA/company-news/press-releases/sony-corporation-of-america/2017/sony-music-and-estate-of-michael-jackson-renew-their-landmark-deal.html32.209.183.254 (talk) 14:30, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

from a forbes article

Elvis Is Back With New Money Maker As U.S. Album Certifications Total 146.5 Million Mark Beech

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markbeech/2018/04/07/elvis-is-back-with-new-money-maker-as-u-s-album-certifications-total-146-5-million/#:~:text=The%20Elvis%20cash%20machine%20is,solo%20artist%20of%20all%20time.14:30, 14 February 2022 (UTC)32.209.183.254 (talk)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 February 2022

Change "Elvis & Priscilla's first child, Elaine was conceived in Germany and born in Clacton, England at the Middlesex Military War Hospital, Holland Road, Colchester, Essex, United Kingdom at the end of 1959. (The Colchester Army Barracks and the Germany Barracks are both connected army bases.) Her birth certificate is December 11th, 1959 to Elvis Aaron Presley and Priscilla Ann Wagner. (This culminates from results of proof from 2017 and updated in 2021 via DNA and a seven year federal investigation.) [171][172][173][174]" to "" 92.196.38.29 (talk) 12:56, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Why would you like to remove this? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:03, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

The IP seems to be asking for the content to be removed. Which it will be, since none of the sources for this alleged 'first child' meet WP:RS. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:40, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2022

Elvis’ mother was said to be Jewish, this was further supported in George Kleins book. I would like to see this in the “early life section” MichaelL030 (talk) 13:41, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Please see the numerous discussions of this in the archives linked above. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:46, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2022

Extended content

1935–1953: Early years Childhood in Tupelo Present-day photograph of a whitewashed house, about 15 feet wide. Four banistered steps in the foreground lead up to a roofed porch that holds a swing wide enough for two. The front of the house has a door and a single-paned window. The visible side of the house, about 30 feet long, has double-paned windows. Presley's birthplace in Tupelo, Mississippi Elvis Aaron Presley was born on January 8, 1935, in Tupelo, Mississippi, to Vernon Elvis (April 10, 1916 – June 26, 1979) and Gladys Love (née Smith; April 25, 1912 – August 14, 1958) Presley in a two-room shotgun house that his father built for the occasion.[6] Elvis's identical twin brother, Jesse Garon Presley, was delivered 35 minutes before him, stillborn.[7] Presley became close to both parents and formed an especially close bond with his mother. The family attended an Assembly of God church, where he found his initial musical inspiration.[8] A photo of Elvis's parents at the Historic Blue Moon Museum in Verona, Mississippi Presley's father, Vernon, was of German,[9] Scottish and English origins.[10] Presley's mother, Gladys, was of Scots-Irish with some French Norman ancestry.[11] His mother, Gladys, and the rest of the family, apparently believed that her great-great-grandmother, Morning Dove White, was Cherokee;[12][13] this was confirmed by Elvis's granddaughter Riley Keough in 2017.[14][15] Elaine Dundy, in her biography, supports the belief.[16] Gladys was regarded by relatives and friends as the dominant member of the small family. Vernon moved from one odd job to the next, showing little ambition.[17][18] The family often relied on help from neighbors and government food assistance. In 1938, they lost their home after Vernon was found guilty of altering a check written by his landowner and sometime-employer. He was jailed for eight months, while Gladys and Elvis moved in with relatives.[8] In September 1941, Presley entered first grade at East Tupelo Consolidated, where his teachers regarded him as "average".[19] He was encouraged to enter a singing contest after impressing his schoolteacher with a rendition of Red Foley's country song "Old Shep" during morning prayers. The contest, held at the Mississippi–Alabama Fair and Dairy Show on October 3, 1945, was his first public performance. The ten-year-old Presley was dressed as a cowboy; he stood on a chair to reach the microphone and sang "Old Shep". He recalled placing fifth.[20] A few months later, Presley received his first guitar for his birthday; he had hoped for something else—by different accounts, either a bicycle or a rifle.[21][22] Over the following year, he received basic guitar lessons from two of his uncles and the new pastor at the family's church. Presley recalled, "I took the guitar, and I watched people, and I learned to play a little bit. But I would never sing in public. I was very shy about it."[23] In September 1946, Presley entered a new school, Milam, for sixth grade; he was regarded as a loner. The following year, he began bringing his guitar to school on a daily basis. He played and sang during lunchtime, and was often teased as a "trashy" kid who played hillbilly music. By then, the family was living in a largely black neighborhood.[24] Presley was a devotee of Mississippi Slim's show on the Tupelo radio station WELO. He was described as "crazy about music" by Slim's younger brother, who was one of Presley's classmates and often took him into the station. Slim supplemented Presley's guitar instruction by demonstrating chord techniques.[25] When his protégé was twelve years old, Slim scheduled him for two on-air performances. Presley was overcome by stage fright the first time, but succeeded in performing the following week.[26] Teenage life in Memphis In November 1948, the family moved to Memphis, Tennessee. After residing for nearly a year in rooming houses, they were granted a two-bedroom apartment in the public housing complex known as the Lauderdale Courts.[27] Enrolled at L. C. Humes High School, Presley received only a C in music in eighth grade. When his music teacher told him that he had no aptitude for singing, he brought in his guitar the next day and sang a recent hit, "Keep Them Cold Icy Fingers Off Me", to prove otherwise. A classmate later recalled that the teacher "agreed that Elvis was right when he said that she didn't appreciate his kind of singing".[28] He was usually too shy to perform openly, and was occasionally bullied by classmates who viewed him as a "mama's boy".[29] In 1950, he began practicing guitar regularly under the tutelage of Lee Denson, a neighbor two and a half years his senior. They and three other boys—including two future rockabilly pioneers, brothers Dorsey and Johnny Burnette—formed a loose musical collective that played frequently around the Courts.[30] That September, he began working as an usher at Loew's State Theater.[31] Other jobs followed: Precision Tool, Loew's again, and MARL Metal Products.[32] Presley also helped Jewish neighbors, the Fruchters, by being their shabbos goy. During his junior year, Presley began to stand out more among his classmates, largely because of his appearance: he grew his sideburns and styled his hair with rose oil and Vaseline. In his free time, he would head down to Beale Street, the heart of Memphis's thriving blues scene, and gaze longingly at the wild, flashy clothes in the windows of Lansky Brothers. By his senior year, he was wearing those clothes.[33] Overcoming his reticence about performing outside the Lauderdale Courts, he competed in Humes' Annual "Minstrel" show in April 1953. Singing and playing guitar, he opened with "Till I Waltz Again with You", a recent hit for Teresa Brewer. Presley recalled that the performance did much for his reputation: "I wasn't popular in school ... I failed music—only thing I ever failed. And then they entered me in this talent show ... when I came onstage I heard people kind of rumbling and whispering and so forth, 'cause nobody knew I even sang. It was amazing how popular I became in school after that."[34] Presley, who received no formal music training and could not read music, studied and played by ear. He also frequented record stores that provided jukeboxes and listening booths to customers. He knew all of Hank Snow's songs,[35] and he loved records by other country singers such as Roy Acuff, Ernest Tubb, Ted Daffan, Jimmie Rodgers, Jimmie Davis, and Bob Wills.[36] The Southern gospel singer Jake Hess, one of his favorite performers, was a significant influence on his ballad-singing style.[37][38] He was a regular audience member at the monthly All-Night Singings downtown, where many of the white gospel groups that performed reflected the influence of African-American spiritual music.[39] He adored the music of black gospel singer Sister Rosetta Tharpe.[36] Like some of his peers, he may have attended blues venues—of necessity, in the segregated South, only on nights designated for exclusively white audiences.[40] He certainly listened to the regional radio stations, such as WDIA-AM, that played "race records": spirituals, blues, and the modern, backbeat-heavy sound of rhythm and blues.[41] Many of his future recordings were inspired by local African-American musicians such as Arthur Crudup and Rufus Thomas.[42][43] B.B. King recalled that he had known Presley before he was popular when they both used to frequent Beale Street.[44] By the time he graduated from high school in June 1953, Presley had already singled out music as his future. 64.99.240.42 (talk) 12:32, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:38, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

"Elvis Presley's political beliefs" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Elvis Presley's political beliefs and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 3#Elvis Presley's political beliefs until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 06:59, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Why is “Death” not a separate section, like it is standard for most articles?

- 2806:102E:12:5982:FDA9:D78C:356B:33CA (talk) 14:47, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

OK, I've split it off into a separate subsection. This does seem to make it clearer to follow.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:31, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

1938

Section #1.1.1 Childhood in Tupelo includes "In 1938, they lost their home after Vernon was found guilty of altering a check written by his landowner and sometime-employer. He was jailed for eight months, while Gladys and Elvis moved in with relatives". Apart from Vernon's brother-in-law and a friend also being involved and their being sentenced to 3 years, though Vernon was released after just over 8 months, the following from Dundy p.84 suggests Gladys decided to leave the house rather than their home having been lost:

"Gladys, as the long months passed, had grown more and more uncomfortable living next door to her father-in-law. ... Gladys did what family custom dictates ... . Lillian came to town and helped Gladys pack ...". Mcljlm (talk) 01:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC) Mcljlm (talk) 01:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2022

Please correct Elvis' middle name. It was ARON with one A not AARON. 134.56.177.249 (talk) 12:26, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Please read through the footnote beside the full name in the lead section. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 12:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2022

5.55.125.112 (talk) 10:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC) 

I'm requesting a change to Elvis Presley's page: remove the claim stating that he had also "a partial Jewish ancestry" when the source that clarifies this is not reliable. The source itself (a Jewish article) claims that there are simply "speculations" that Elvis had also some Jewish heritage. In these cases we need references from books or interviews from the person himself. I haven't found in these instances that Elvis had indeed Jewish blood or heard anything from him confirming this.

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This issue has been discussed multiple times, please search the talk page archives for previous discussions. Alduin2000 (talk) 23:09, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2022

It should mention Gladys' Jewish ancestry.

https://www.thejc.com/life-and-culture/all/uh-huh-elvis-was-a-nice-jewish-boy-6jfiuqs8VLSD32PZ5Ti8xn?reloadTime=1659571200011 100.15.235.158 (talk) 01:08, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This is a whole thing. Search the talk page archives. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:16, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Family

Do people know that he had a brother who died in the age group of 1-10 nobody talks about him🤔 2601:402:C200:1CD0:342B:D935:F4D5:766C (talk) 01:51, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2022

Elvis's middle name was Aron not Aaron 2603:6011:1241:6287:703C:8C44:D6F4:7A85 (talk) 18:36, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: see detailed footnote a Cannolis (talk) 19:16, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Elvis's middle name

As someone else has said (on August 14, 2022: Elvis's middle name was "Aron", not "Aaron". Why have you not changed it? Balleen (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

See the thread above and footnote a) in the article. Aron was widely considered to be the correct spelling in the 1950s, but Elvis's preference was Aaron.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2022

Elvis’s middle name is Aron NOT Aaron 68.200.14.166 (talk) 00:35, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: This is covered at length in a footnote. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:38, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2022

Change cause to drug overdose Domeway (talk) 01:56, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. RudolfRed (talk) 02:28, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2022

In early life after:

Elaine Dundy, in her biography, supports the belief.

Add:

Elvis was Jewish according to Rabbinical Halacha by maternal descent. Historian and biographer Elaine Dundy writes about Elvis Aaron Presley’s Jewish heritage in her book Elvis and Gladys: "She [Martha] (Elvis's great grandmother) was the daughter of Abner and Nancy Burdine Tackett. According to Elvis's third cousin Oscar Tackett (who shared the same ancestors, Abner and Nancy Tackett) Nancy Burdine was Jewish. It is believed her family immigrated to America from what is now Lithuania around the time of the American Revolution. Elvis was frequently photographed wearing a Chai necklace the Jewish symbol for “life” and a Star of David necklace. Elvis personally designed his mother’s tombstone to include a Star of David symbol. Q2Learn (talk) 06:39, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

References

 Not done: This suggestion does not fit into the context of the article. "This belief" refers to Cherokee ancestry, not Jewish ancestry. Please also be aware that, even if it fit into the context, your suggestion would be excessively detailed (why do we need to know how Nancy and Abnder met?) and not entirely supported by reliable sources. Actualcpscm (talk) 11:57, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Doesn’t fit the context of the article??? What are you saying? We are talking about ancestry and we bring up Elvis’s Cherokee descent in the Early Life section and so to bring up Jewish ancestry as well in a follow up sentence absolutely fits the “context.”

Secondly, the source for that Cherokee ancestry is Historian and biographer Elaine Dundy, who writes on the very next page (page 21) in her book that Elvis Great Great Grandmother was Nancy who was Jewish. So if it’s a reliable source and is relevant for Cherokee descent, then it’s a reliable source and relevant for Jewish ancestry as well.

As far as your issue with being excessively detailed, I am just quoting the book, and I can take out that last sentence of how they met but I think it’s important since Jewish people wish to know the ancestry to make a determination by Rabbi if he was indeed Jewish. In this case since it’s his Great Great Great Grand Mother by maternal descent he would in fact be considered Jewish by rabbinical law. Q2Learn (talk) 14:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. This looks to be far too much weight and prose for this detail, and also reads as an essay making an argument. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

This edit does not need a consensus as it's not controversial. According to Wikipedia rules, consensus is only needed when facts are difficult to interpret. However, while you may not agree with the statement, it is indeed an accurate and true fact per Elaine Dundy's book and her research. That book and the source page is available online and you can choose to read it and verify copywriting. That source (Elvis and Gladys page 21) is a reliable source and indeed that book is referenced in the preceding sentence of the Wikipedia Page currently regarding Elvis Cherokee ancestry. Therefore, the edit is in context and should be accepted as per the edit rules for Wikipedia. Q2Learn (talk) 23:59, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Which 'Wikipedia rules' are you referring to? AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Please read the link with the rules that the user shared with us titled 'before' that sends the user to the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests

The page has the rules:

"Edit requests are requests for edits to be made to a page where editors cannot or should not make the proposed edits themselves. Requests should be accompanied by a clear and specific description of the requested change, and consensus should be obtained before requesting changes that are likely to be controversial."

In the contents go to 1. Planning a request

"Consensus isn't needed if a change is not controversial. Uncontroversial changes don't require sourcing, such as correcting typographical errors or disambiguating links. If this is the case, you don't need to establish consensus, but instead propose the change as stated above."

This edit is not a controversial change as it does not require sourcing because the source has already been accepted as reliable in the preceding sentence regarding Cherokee ancestry. Therefore, the change is merely adding missing information relevant to a reader to the fact on Elvis's Jewish ancestry from the very same book. If that's a good source for the Cherokee fact it's a good source for the Jewish fact. And since that source has already been accepted as reliable the edit request does not need consensus. Q2Learn (talk) 00:37, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Your interpretation of the 'rules' is woefully incorrect. Your proposal doesn't involve "correcting typographical errors or disambiguating links". Instead, it involves a subject which has been discussed multiple times previously on this page. As for sourcing, you cite at least one source which has been declared unreliable by consensus, [2] and I suspect other sources cited may also be seen as questionable. Furthermore, you are clearly making selective use of the sources you do cite. I suggest you familiarise yourself with how Wikipedia actually works before proceeding further. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

The way I see it is that you and other editors are clearly pushing reliable sources and edits under the rug. Physical evidence displays a star of david on the tombstone. That is an undeniable fact of information. It's also relevant to a reader. It's information that is more than a year old and is reliably sourced both in the consensus of this page and elsewhere. It's also an undeniable fact that he wore a Star of David necklace and that he wore a Chai necklace around his neck. That is relevant information as it's a highly Jewish display. And so both of those edits are 100% true, undeniable and relevant and they are all well sourced and I see no reason why that is not added to the page. And the third, of him personally being of Jewish descent, that is now based on multiple sources (his biographer, his estate, etc) so with all that it seems at this point "woefully incorrect" to not even mention any of those edits or his Jewish heritage. So here we are arguing over it because this page is now lacking information. The fact of the matter is that pushing to consensus is a way for pushing information away that would otherwise be relevant. Why can't we edit the page to include at least two of the three edits which are undeniable. Or do we need consensus on whether the tombstone has a star of david on it as well? Q2Learn (talk) 02:33, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

The tombstone also has a Christian cross. It seems highly likely that Elvis was aware that he had some Jewish ancestry. That isn't however what your proposed edits are saying. You are asking for Wikipedia to state that "Elvis was Jewish according to Rabbinical Halacha by maternal descent". Before we could consider inclusion, we need citations to reliable sources which directly state that. Not sources that say "According to Elvis's third cousin Oscar Tackett" he was. Not the Jewish Virtual Library (which isn't a reliable source, not least because it uses Wikipedia as a source, and circular referencing is a very bad idea). And not sources that merely report that people have claimed that Elvis was Jewish. I suggest you read the previous discussions, and the Wikipedia:Reliable sources guideline, and then come up with proposed wording directly supported by sources we can use. And then, if there is consensus for inclusion, we can include it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:20, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Please search the talk page archives using the form in the header of this page for "Jewish" and familiarize yourself with the discussions and current consensus about this. Also, please stop reopening the edit request, as all it will do is bring an edit request patroller who will decline the request because it clearly requires consensus. Such behavior is disruptive. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:21, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image change

HighlyLogicalVulcan made this change, which I reverted. This is a highly visible and visited article. You cannot just show up a change images on the fly. You'll need consensus to change an image that's been here for years. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:15, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

No change - Here's your first consensus statement. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:15, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree! Apologies for that. --HighlyLogicalVulcan (talk) 20:20, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

@HighlyLogicalVulcan: No problems. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 20:27, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

This is a high profile article, so changes to the infobox image should be proposed on the talk page first. Personally I'm happy with the longstanding image and didn't really like YoungElvisPresley.jpg.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:29, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2023

He is the second best selling solo artist of all time, the first is actually Michael. 45.71.230.216 (talk) 22:11, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi I was wondering if where it says cause of death if It can be changed to heart disease/ Heart attack since a Heart attack did also cause his death. Here is a link from the history channel also saying it was a heart attack.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/elvis-presley-dies Epicreaper933 (talk) 05:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Vernon Presley

Death stated as 1979 but I met him in 1987. Edit required. 2A00:23EE:1400:8B28:B24D:32D3:2311:A29B (talk) 23:17, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

He died in 1979, You might of seen a impostor Epicreaper933 (talk) 05:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Elvis's cause of death

Hi I was wondering if where it says cause of death if It can be changed to heart disease/ Heart attack since a Heart attack did also cause his death. Here is a link from the history channel also saying it was a heart attack. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/elvis-presley-dies Epicreaper933 (talk) 06:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

The article says that "the immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest". History.com isn't really a reliable source.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:57, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

yes the article does but I feel it should also say that where his cause of death is as well. People might just fast read and not notice it in the article. People can live for decades with heart disease which is why is doesn't make sense to me to just have that as a cause of death. Could you at least change it to something like this then heart disease (cardiac arrest) Epicreaper933 (talk) 08:08, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

There is a debate about the extent to which Elvis's heart problems, prescription drug use and generally poor state of health contributed to his death. The article does look at this and tries to give a balanced view.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:31, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Is there anyway I could get the source Wikipedia used for the hearth disease part. As far as I know the Presley family paid for the autopsy which would make that a private autopsy report. The only thing I could find was a heart attack because that's what was given out by the head doctor who performed the autopsy. Epicreaper933 (talk) 08:39, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 January 2023

Please Change Cause of death heart disease to cause of death heart disease (cardiac arrest) https://www.biography.com/news/elvis-presley-death-40-years-later https://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item105655.html https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/from-the-archives-the-day-elvis-presley-died-66304581675 Epicreaper933 (talk) 10:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. This seems like it is better elaborated on in the prose, where there is an entire section discussing it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

could you possible help me out a little, I'm new to this and would like to go about it the proper way. like your saying but I have no clue how to go about trying to do that. Any help would be really appreciated Epicreaper933 (talk) 14:38, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

possibly not possible lol, Typo Epicreaper933 (talk) 14:40, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think there is much wrong with the current wording in the article. It's not in dispute that Presley died from cardiac arrest, but experts disagreed over the extent to which his other health problems had contributed to it.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:47, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

It's not so much the wording in the article to me. Its more just the cause of death since people can live for a long time with heart disease and to me that's just not a very good cause of death. Like you said experts disagreed over the extent of his other health problems, One to me is heart disease just because I got a family member who has it and has had it for a long time and is still doing fine despite being almost 70. I feel like something else such as cardiac arrest would fit better as a cause of death. That is just my opinion Epicreaper933 (talk) 14:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

To help somewhat, I'm not talking about anything in the article itself, Just the part under his picture where it says cause of death. Epicreaper933 (talk) 15:00, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

The Spanish page has his cause of death under his picture as Infarto agudo de miocardio which translates to Acute myocardial infarction. When you look up Acute myocardial infarction it says heart attack. Why does the Spanish page have his correct cause of death listed under his picture but the English version cause of death under his picture is listed as heart disease? That's another reason why I don't agree with heart disease being there under his picture as a cause of death. Epicreaper933 (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I've changed it to cardiac arrest. He may have had heart problems due to the drug issues and the fact that he was overweight at the time of his death and he had a family history of heart issues, but heart disease isn't descriptive enough because so many things fall under heart disease. Cause of death should stick to official cause of death, as in what would typically be on the death certificate, I'm guessing "cardiac arrest" or something along those lines is what it is on his death certificate.--Rockchalk717 16:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

3d Armored Division --> 3rd Armored Division

In the sentence that begins, "On October 1, 1958, Presley was assigned to the 1st Medium Tank Battalion, 32d Armor, 3d Armored Division", I'd suggest that the more conventional presentation would be "32nd" and "3rd". The "3d" notation also appears in the description under the associated image of Presley in the Army (the image with the tank). So that's three total edits I'm proposing. Additionally, I wonder if the term "32nd Armor" is the most accurate term. The article linked to that calls it, more formally, the "32nd Cavalry Regiment". 208.90.130.236 (talk) 17:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

correct I think the same thing. 96.35.102.132 (talk) 15:42, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Elvis Presley‘s middle name is spelled wrong.

Elvis Aron Presley 76.103.46.208 (talk) 00:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Pls review Article note here Moxy- 01:13, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Note that, as of today (17-Jan-2023) it's spelled "Aron" in the info panel on the right-hand side, but spelled "Aaron" in the first paragraph of main body text. 208.90.130.236 (talk) 17:05, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

people call it Aaron now he wanted this , too. But his real real name was Aron yes. 96.35.102.132 (talk) 15:44, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Elvis Presley did not like...

Elvis did NOT like his step mom he always thought that she didn't like him or anything about him. He always thought she just played it. He was right about her because after his sad death she wrote an entire book and article about what he did and how bad he was and how stupid. She is evil . He was always right about it. 96.35.102.132 (talk) 15:41, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

 They should edit that in the article 96.35.102.132 (talk) 15:45, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

First Recordings (1953-1955)

The section " First Recordings (1953-1955)" includes the two sub-sections "Sam Phillips and Sun Records" and "Early live performances and RCA Victor contract". This poses a small problem of logical/semantic inconsistency: "live performances" and "contract" are not recordings. To solve it simply I propose to replace the title "First recordings (1953-1955)" with "Beginning of musical career (1953-1955)". Thus, the general term "career" would also include "first concerts" and "contract". Thank you. 10:52, 24 January 2023 (UTC) -- Tennesso (talk) 10:52, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Elvis's death.

I think it would make more sense if his cause of death is stated as "Heart problems" or "Heart complications" instead of the one we have now.

Some people (like me) don't agree that cardiac arrest is the cause of death, but we all know that it has something to do with his heart, as the article states that he had a enlarged heart. ☭MasterWolf-Æthelwulf☭ (=^._.^= ∫) 19:09, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

External Links - Internet Archive

I would like to add:

• Elvis Presley on the Internet Archive

Twillisjr (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if this is really necessary, it is a search query and people can do this themselves.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:47, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

"His life and career were dramatised in the 2022 biopic Elvis."

Per the leads for Freddie Mercury and Elton John, should the lead for this article contain the following sentence - "His life and career were dramatised in the 2022 biopic Elvis."

The Elvis biopic, like the Queen and Elton biopics before it, is notable enough to mention in the lead of this article. 79.66.89.36 (talk) 11:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

A consensus of not using the Guinness book of world Records as the source of record sales

I have changed the wording to Having sold about 500 million records worldwide, Presley is one of the best-selling music artists of all time. The Guinness Book of Records is neither representative of the global recording industry nor tracking worldwide sales. The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry is responsible for this. What they do is simply collect the data from the record label and various recording industries. According to the Guinness Book of World Records "Elvis Presley (USA) is the best-selling solo artist, with 1 billion sales worldwide (129.5 million in the USA)." There is a consensus on the talk page of the list of best-selling artists to not use GWR as a source for record sales. As a result, we do not use any sales figures from the GWR unless it was confirmed by the respective bodies. This includes the 1Billion figure for Elvis Presley, 335 million for Madonna, and,3.8 million for Michael Jacksons Thriller sales in Brazil. TheWikiholic (talk) 14:12, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

This article doesn't use "1 billion" sales from Guinness World Records, just the "Best-Selling Solo Artist" title which is inline with List of best-selling music artists. Bluesatellite (talk) 23:51, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

And why are you trying to make this removal from Michael Jackson article? In that case, the claimed sales figure of "1 billion" is not being used either, just the "biggest selling artist of all time" title.

Let me tell you that neither the RIAA nor the GWR are official authorities when it comes to worldwide sales. And if that is the reason that would support an eventual removal of these statements, then both should be removed. Salvabl (talk) 00:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

This source said: "The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), the Estate of Michael Jackson, Epic Records and Legacy Recordings announced today that Michael Jackson’s THRILLER is the first album in RIAA Gold & Platinum Program history to be certified 30X Multi-Platinum for U.S. sales, continuing The King of Pop’s reign as the biggest selling artist of all time with worldwide sales of over 100 million for Thriller and 1 billion overall.

First, your source doesn't only mention RIAA, but also the Estate of Michael Jackson, Epic Records and Legacy Recordings, so that makes it misleading. Second, your source doesn't say "solo" or "individual", but overall artist. There are at least two artists on List of best-selling music artists with higher record sales than MJ. Guinness World Records doesn't track worldwide sales, but they are the most-used and de-facto authoritative source when it comes to world records (most successful, most expensive, best-selling etc). Most importantly, the Guinness tittle is inline with Wikipedia's List of best-selling music artists which indeed ranks Elvis above all other soloists. Bluesatellite (talk) 00:46, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

If we go to The Beatles article, we can read, concerning the figure of 1 billion claimed sales, that it is "a figure based on EMI's statement and recognised by Guinness World Records". Do you think Elvis' Estate had nothing to do with the appearance of his 1 billion claimed sales figure? But, apart from that, the figures are later supported by organizations such as the GWR (in Presley's case) or the RIAA (in Jackson's case). I don't think the source is misleading, but anyway here is another one available where you can read that it is the RIAA who stated the figure.

Second, you claim that "your source doesn't say "solo" or "individual", but overall artist". I tell you again the same thing I told you regarding The Wall Street Journal article (link here) in Jackson's article, please read it carefully. The word "overall" refers to his total sales.

And apart from all that, it should be remarked that, although the List of best-selling music artists in the past did contain a statement in which Presley was labeled as "the highest-selling individual artist", it disappeared some time ago as a result of a discussion (now there is no longer any statement claiming that he or another artist is the highest-selling individual artist; this was done because it is very difficult to ensure something like that when talking about worldwide total sales). On the other hand, we should highlight the inconsistency of Guinness World Records as a source (and even worse as a certifier). In the case we are discussing now, the source claims that "Elvis Presley (USA) is the best-selling solo artist, with 1 billion sales worldwide (129.5 million in the USA)." You referred to the List of best-selling music artists, and we can see how the Guinness World Records statement does not go in line with the information contained in that List; since according to the Guinness World Records statement, Elvis' US sales are less than 13% of the world total, and we only have to take a look at Presley's certified sales figures in the different countries/markets to label that statement as fiction, since Presley's U.S. sales represent a large percentage of his total sales. Therefore, this may be a clear case where WP:CONTEXTMATTERS should be taken into account. Salvabl (talk) 02:07, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

This Guinness record is based on Sony’s report of Elvis selling 1 billion records. There is a consensus of not using the one billion figure for Elvis. Besides that, they began using it when Elvis only had 129 million album sales in the USA. It’s been almost 12 years now since Elvis passed 129M album sales in the USA which means the Guinness book hasn’t updated the list since then. Guinness book is often noted for changing their numbers as well. In 2006, Guinness book awarded ‘Thriller’ album as the biggest selling album of all time with 100M units sold. In 2015, they changed to 50M to 100M, and in 2021 they changed the figure once more to 67M. It clearly shows their authenticity with numbers.— TheWikiholic (talk) 05:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December, 2020 Elvis never converted to Islam

"During the last years of his life he accepted the Islamic faith and died a Muslim." from the first paragraph.

This is not true and the result of a common joke that goes like this: "Elvis Presley considered converting to Islam before he died. He even settled on a Muslim name: Ahmal Shooq-Up." (https://www.reddit.com/r/puns/comments/4jrbzi/elvis_presley_considered_converting_to_islam/) This is a pun on "I'm all shook up". There is no valid source for this claim of his faith.

paul mccartney states elvis has sold more records than the beatles

In more ways than one these two greats came from a different place. Let the last word go to Paul McCartney himself. After he visited Graceland recently Paul was interviewed about his experience and he was quoted as saying' I used to think that it was us (the Beatles) who sold the most records, but I have seen the evidence for myself and there is no doubt it is Elvis'. 50.77.26.133 (talk) 15:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Personally, I think there should be a swear box for anyone who reopens the debate that The Beatles/Elvis Presley/Michael Jackson sold the most records. This has been discussed many times on Wikipedia, and since the record company sources contain an element of WP:PRIMARY, the figures should always be taken with a pinch of salt.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:28, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

The Colonel's influence

Many early histories of Elvis emphasize the role of Colonel Parker in promoting Elvis early on and "encouraging" (some would say manipulating) him to pursue commercial success. The article only mentions "The Colonel" (as he was called at the time iirc) in passing in the lede; there is a detailed discussion in the body much later on, but it is under the misleading heading Associates>Colonel Parker and the Aberbachs, which sounds like just some obscure band Elvis might have performed with a few times, not his number one early manager. I would suggest that the Colonel, who played such an important role in Elvis' rise to fame, deserves at least a couple of sentences if not a full paragraph in the lede. However, I am not an Elvis historian, just someone who lived through the period, so, since this article has no doubt been through thousands of redaction sieves by editors much more knowledgeable than me, I will defer to others. --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 21:48, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Misleading heading "Colonel Parker and the Aberbachs"

The heading under Associates, Colonel Parker and the Aberbachs, is misleading, as mentioned above. First, it de-emphasizes the Colonel's role, which was that of a dominating & very actively promoting manager, not a mere associate, such as a friend or song writer. Some biographers even go so far as suggesting Elvis' rise to popularity and fame was entirely due to the Colonel's influence on him and vigorous promotion. Second, it overemphasizes the Aberbachs, who are mentioned only twice in the subsection, rather briefly. Overall, it makes it sound as though "Colonel Parker and the Aberbachs" was just some band that Elvis performed with occasionally. The article should give due prominence to the Colonel's crucial role, separate from any mere associates, perhaps moving the Colonel's activities to a new heading such as Managers or Management and promotion. The heading should remove "the Aberbachs", unless the subsection is expanded to describe more of their ongoing influence. --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 22:36, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2023

Please add in his identical twin brother, Jesse Garon Presley. He died at birth, and I think that t would be a good addition to this page. There is already a page for Jesse. 12345678910111213141516171819abc (talk) 14:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Not done; Jesse Garon is already mentioned in the article. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 14:16, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Request for a photo from later years

The article contains a lot of pictures, but none of them show Presley in his later years (after 1972). We are told that he gained a lot of weight and his health dramatically deteriorated after 1973 and especially by early 1977, but we are not shown his appearance. The commons category "Category:Elvis Presley by year" ends in 1973. I'm sure there must be a lot of pictures of him from 1975–1977 somewhere – he was a very famous, frequently photographed person and he continued to appear in public. It would be nice to have such a picture in the article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:45, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I suggest illustrating the “1973-1977: Health deteriorations and death” with this image 83.52.72.57 (talk) 07:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I posted it in this topic when it should be in its own one 83.52.72.57 (talk) 07:12, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

That photo is from 1973, the very beginning of that period, and is apparently a publicity photo. I think it would be better to have a photo from 1976 or 1977 taken by someone who is not trying to be especially flattering. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:25, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023

"The horse named Palomino Rising Sun was Presley' favorite horse, and there are many photographs of him riding him" -> this lone sentence should be attached to the paragraph above it for aesthetic reason. It doesn't look good when a paragraph only has 1 sentence. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:75B7:3532:D2D:152B (talk) 03:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:57, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 August 2023 (2)

"She is one of three of the original staff members still working at the estate" -> "She is one of the three original staff members still working at the estate." This is redundant and simply just bad writing.

"there are many photographs of him riding him" -> "there are many photographs of Presley riding him." "Him riding him" is just bad writing. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:F938:1751:BD57:70EB (talk) 17:16, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done and consider creating an account, so you can become autoconfirmed yourself and make such edits without the need to use the request system casualdejekyll 17:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Records sold to date, September 2023

I think an update on the amount of records Elvis has sold and needs to be changed to sold over an estimated one billion records. PaulfThorpe (talk) 21:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Move paragraphs to "Life and career"

Starting with "Presley was born in Tupelo, Mississippi," that and the subsequent paragraph should be in the "Life and career" section. Skaizun (talk) 15:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

FA with banner

Tell me how does a featured article contain a “page too lengthy” banner which I don’t disagree with. Perhaps this should be re-evaluated for removing said status. I believe over the years users have added more content to the article. Unless we decided to trim back some minor/unimportant details and remove the banner. Tinton5 (talk) 06:25, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Dates for Elvis' Parents

I included these because they seem relevant, i.e. Elvis' mother died young and his dad outlived him. Another editor has decided they are irrelevant and keeps deleting. They also seem to have a habit of deleting stuff in this article based on the conversations above. Jjazz76 (talk) 02:05, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

MOS:BIRTHDATE indicates that in the article body "birth and death details should only be included after a name if there is special contextual relevance"; that doesn't appear to exist here. The fact of his mother's death is discussed explicitly later in the article, where it is put in context. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

The fact that it is discussed later seems to indicate that special contextual relevance, as you just noted. Jjazz76 (talk) 02:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

It is relevant in the later context, discussion of his mother's death, to mention her relatively young age. But there is no special relevance in the early years section. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

It seems her young death is an important point, and by not including her dates, that point is easily glossed over. As is the father outliving the son. Jjazz76 (talk) 02:27, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

An explicit discussion of her death at the point in the narrative in which it occurs is much harder to gloss over than a set of numbers out of context. But let's see what others think. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:29, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! Jjazz76 (talk) 02:30, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Length

At over 19k words of readable prose, this article is quite long and detailed. It would benefit from having some extraneous details removed (for example, Alene) and from being generally condensed throughout. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:56, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

As another example, the "Childhood in Tupelo" section is detailed to the point of parody. Aza24 (talk) 23:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

The article has had a "too long" tag since June 2023. It has WP:SIZERULE problems, with more than 15,000 words and 100 kB it should be considered for trimming or splitting into different articles.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:27, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I attempted to trim and it is now at 17.1k words.

We need to move the whole Elvis_Presley#Artistry to Cultural impact of Elvis Presley. That will reduce 2,000 words. Editorkamran (talk) 20:52, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

• Editorkamran I think the "Equestrian" section should be moved to the Graceland article. I don't see how this is related to his public image. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:F938:1751:BD57:70EB (talk) 16:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

  @Nikkimaria In regard to your revert of my tag removal, I did actually look at the talk page. Seeing that the issue has been resolved (at least partially) and knowing that this is a featured article, I decided to remove the tag. I don't see how having an FA tagged like this brings any benefit to the casual reader who would be looking for an encyclopedic and highest quality article (based on our content assessment criteria). If we cannot fix, then I do believe it should be reassessed. Your curt revert a bit like you're pulling rank based on tenure, but I won't push any more. Ppt91^talk 14:42, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Nikkimaria has tagged many major pages with the tag and always reverts the logical removal of the tag. Please understand what exemptions are, WP:COMMONSENSE, or that these pages, many of them features, are fine as is. This seems a problem which editors have tried to address. As for this page, please editors, don't cut or destroy a feature page just because one editor seems to be on a good faith but misguided length-crusade. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:LENGTH is a guideline, not a policy. Nikkimaria, please try to memorize the instructions for all guidelines which include the wording "...though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply." Randy Kryn (talk) 15:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm aware of that, thanks. It is common sense that it is even more important for a relatively high-profile article to be accessible. It is common sense that a featured article, which is meant to be an example of our best work and of "highest quality", should actually be that, and should follow the FA criteria; removing tags hides rather than addresses concerns. It is the opposite of common sense to argue that because an article is featured, it should not be tagged. Removing tags before the issues they identify are fully addressed make it less likely, not more, that they ever will be - that certainly neither benefits the reader nor supports the article remaining an FA. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

When needs to be addressed? The suggestions above seem to be just looking for things to cut because of the tag. For instance, the criticized early section is only five paragraphs long, covering the crucial first 13 years of Presley's life. And there certainly is no need to move any of, let alone the entire, 'Artistry' section. Putting a toolong tag up creates an excuse to remove such information under the guise of "length". There is no policy about length, WP:COMMONSENSE covers keeping the page as intact as possible. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:45, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

A too-long tag encourages editors to improve the concision of the article, making it more accessible to readers and in accordance with multiple guidelines as well as the FA criteria which it is expected to follow. Nothing about "as intact as possible" is a common-sense argument with regards to length, or with basis in any policy or guideline - it's only an argument for the status quo with zero consideration for whether the status quo is or is not the optimal approach. You could apply the same argument to an article five times as long, and it would be equally meaningless. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Only it doesn't. It just makes the article look ugly. No editor is going to come along and do the work which is needed. I don't disagree that it could use a trim in places like the early career sections, 1955-59 is very long, but it's not problematic enough to slop a tag on all of it, it passed FAC after all. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:43, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

The "death" and "cause of death" sections need some additions

Some of my additions have recently been removed. I think this is not O.K. These different opinions are currently cited in the "cause of death" section of the article:

- Dr Jerry Francisco says that the immediate cause of death was cardiac arrest and drugs played no role in Presley's death.

- Biographer Peter Guralnick writes that drug use was heavily implicated in Presley's death.

- Forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht concludes that a combination of depressants had resulted in Presley's accidental death.

- Pathologist Michael Baden suggests that an enlarged heart, together with his drug habit, caused his death.

- Coroner Joseph Davis says that there is nothing that supports a death from drugs and everything points to a sudden, violent heart attack.

- According to biographer Joel Williamson, meticulous dissection of the body confirmed that Elvis was chronically ill with diabetes, glaucoma, and constipation, so that the doctors saw evidence that his body had been wracked over a span of years by a large and constant stream of drugs.

The following addition is necessary:

According to biographer Frank Coffey and Dan Warlick, one of the physicians who were present at the autopsy, Presley's death was due to "a phenomenon called the Valsalva maneuver," i.e. "essentially straining on the toilet leading to heart stoppage—plausible because Elvis suffered constipation, a common reaction to drug use" and "high-fat, high-cholesterol gorging … Put simply, the strain of attempting to defecate compressed the singer's abdominal aorta, shutting down his heart."

This addition reflects a view that has not been previously expressed in the article. It supports the opinion that both drug use and a violent heart attack caused Presley's sudden death. Drug use had caused constipation and when Elvis was sitting on the toilet the Valsalva maneuver had led to heart stoppage. According to Dr Dan Warlick, who was present at the autopsy, this is the best explanation of what happened. Dylan Jones emphasises that Elvis was sitting on the toilet when he died: "His light blue pyjamas were around his ankles." In similar terms, Peter Guralnick writes that "Warlick found a stain on the bathroom carpeting … that seemed to indicate where Elvis had thrown up after being stricken, apparently while seated on the toilet" and that Presley's "large intestine was clogged with fecal matter, indicating a painful and longstanding bowel condition. The bowel condition alone would have strongly suggested … that drug use was heavily implicated in this unanticipated death of a middle-aged man with no known history of heart disease … It was certainly possible that he had been taken while 'straining at stool' …"

Consequently, the "death" section needs the following addition:

Biographer Joel Williamson suggests that "involving a reaction to the codeine" he had taken "and attempts to move his bowels—he experienced pain and fright while sitting on the toilet. Alarmed, he stood up ... and fell face down in the fetal position." Drooling on the rug and "unable to breathe, he died."

In its present state, the article only says that Elvis's fiancée Ginger Alden discovered him in an unresponsive state on the bathroom floor of his Graceland mansion and that attempts to revive him failed. A short explanation of what may have caused his death, according to the mainstream biographers, is missing. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 00:22, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

• The addition should be more concise. I propose this, "According to biographer Frank Coffey and Dan Warlick, one of the physicians who were present at the autopsy, Presley's death was due to Valsalva maneuver." The readers can click on the inner link if they want to know what Valsalva maneuver is. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:F938:1751:BD57:70EB (talk) 16:56, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

According to Barry B. White, the main causes of Valsalva maneuver are: 1. Straining at stool due to constipation. 2. Straining to urinate. 3. Straining to raise up in bed or to get in or out of bed. However, it does not necessarily lead to death. It is necessary to mention in the Presley article why a specific form of Valsalva maneuver, according to Dr Warlick, was responsible for Elvis's death. It occurred during straining to pass a hardened stool: "If defecation is suppressed over long periods, problems can occur, such as constipation or stool impaction. Defecation can be facilitated by the Valsalva maneuver. This maneuver involves contraction of the chest muscles on a closed glottis with simultaneous contraction of the abdominal muscles." Physicians point out "that the danger of a Valsalva maneuver is increased by constipation,", as in the case of Presley. According to Dr Warlick (who examined Elvis's body at autopsy), Presley died from a Valsalva maneuver that "caused the heart to stop when the body strained. When the body senses a vascular occlusion or blocked major artery—the heart is signalled to stop creating the pressure in the vessel. When Elvis compressed his abdominal aorta by straining, his heart, in response, went into arrhythmia and quit working suddenly. All of the information from the scene investigation is completely consistent with this theory," said Warlick. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 13:20, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

User:ADogCalledElvis This is too wordy as conciseness is often better. As a reader, I don't care about all of the technical details. If a reader really wants to find out all of the details, they can find those sources and read them themselves.

My second proposal, "According to biographer Frank Coffey and Dan Warlick, one of the physicians who were present at the autopsy, Presley's death was caused by Valsalva maneuver due to constipation as a result of drug abuse." 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:3CA7:A195:B058:E19A (talk) 20:58, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

An additional sentence provides the necessary clarity:

According to biographer Frank Coffey and Dan Warlick, one of the physicians who were present at the autopsy, Presley's death was caused by a Valsalva maneuver due to constipation as a result of drug abuse. When using the toilet, "the strain of attempting to defecate compressed the singer's abdominal aorta, shutting down his heart."

Now all readers are fully informed. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 19:35, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

I like this compromise. The debate has been fruitful. It has been a pleasure to debate with you. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D973:95C0:1776:4340 (talk) 20:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

@ADogCalledElvis: As the IP noted, conciseness is better. Additionally the sourcing for your proposed addition is questionable. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:32, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

In this case, conciseness isn't better. The very brief addition makes it clear what exactly happened. The source used summarizes Dr Warlick's views in simple, understandable terms. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 02:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

...which doesn't make it a high-quality reliable source. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:50, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

The book is written by a medical journalist who has used Elvis as an example and knows how to get to the heart of the matter. By the way, it's just an added sentence that explains the matter in a few words that everyone can understand. Would it be better to explain the issue in a complicated way using lots of medical terms? I don't think so. An additional source from a medical point of view is George Nichopoulos and ‎Rose Clayton Phillips, The King and Dr. Nick: What Really Happened to Elvis and Me (Nashville, TN 2009), pp. 137-138. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 02:59, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

It's an added sentence that doesn't need to be there in the first place. Whether it's written simply or in medical terminology doesn't matter. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I think the addition is necessary because the medical term Valsalva maneuver does not explain precisely enough and in a generally understandable way what happened, as Elvis could also have performed the Valsalva maneuver when getting out of bed. The IP also liked the compromise with the short additional sentence. It's just a sentence that makes it clear to everyone what happened. This doesn't make the article significantly longer. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't make the article significantly better either. What does your additional source say about the matter? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:10, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

I think the addition makes it clearer what really happened. The other source cites Dr Warlick’s opinion and says that "the Valsalva maneuver caused the heart to stop when the body strained. ... When Elvis compressed his abdominal aorta by straining, his heart, in response, went into arrhythmia and quit working suddenly." However, the sentence I have added is shorter. It is also based on Warlick’s opinion. Furthermore, it additional mentions that Elvis died on the toilet - a view with which all mainstream biographers agree - and not in bed, as might also have been possible. This is also in line with the common saying that "the King died on the throne." ADogCalledElvis (talk) 18:05, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

We don't say "this is what really happened", we summarize what the best sources on the topic say - and the source for the addition isn't one of those. The fact that he died in the bathroom is also already clear without the addition. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:35, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

You can also die in the bathroom for other reasons. The additional sentence is very short and clearly says that Presley performed the Valsalva maneuver when sitting on the toilet. Of course, you could also cite a mainstream Elvis biographer. But then the quote would be much longer. According to Peter Guralnick, "Warlick found a stain on the bathroom carpeting … that seemed to indicate where Elvis had thrown up after being stricken, apparently while seated on the toilet" and that Presley's "large intestine was clogged with fecal matter, indicating a painful and longstanding bowel condition. The bowel condition alone would have strongly suggested ... that drug use was heavily implicated in this unanticipated death of a middle-aged man with no known history of heart disease ... It was certainly possible that he had been taken while 'straining at stool' ..." Frank Coffey writes that Presley's death was due to "a phenomenon called the Valsalva maneuver," i.e. "essentially straining on the toilet leading to heart stoppage—plausible because Elvis suffered constipation, a common reaction to drug use." But that doesn't make much sense because the version I agreed on with the IP describes what happened very precisely and is far shorter. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 20:54, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

What is the full citation for that last quote? Nikkimaria (talk) 21:18, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Which citation do you mean? Coffey or Wertheimer? Frank Coffey writes, "Hospital officials present at the autopsy later admitted that Elvis died from polypharmacy — multiple drug ingestion. Other examinations of the evidence have yielded other plausible causes of Elvis' death, including a phenomenon called the Valsalva maneuver (essentially straining on the toilet leading to heart stoppage — plausible because Elvis suffered constipation, a common reaction to drug use)." Neil Wertheimer, who appears to have used the same sources as Coffey, says that Dr Warlick "believes Presley's chronic constipation — the result of years of prescription drug abuse and high-fat, high-cholesterol gorging — brought on what's known as Valsalva's maneuver. Put simply, the strain of attempting to defecate compressed the singer's abdominal aorta, shutting down his heart." ADogCalledElvis (talk) 01:35, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The full citation for the quote you are providing for Coffey, please. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Frank Coffey, The Complete Idiot's Guide to Elvis (New York: Alpha Books, 1997), p.247. However, I think Wertheimer put the matter very well. Why shouldn't we use the short quote as it now appears in the article? ADogCalledElvis (talk) 01:52, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Because this version is clearer on context and a better source. I've swapped it in. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:17, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not so sure this is the better quote as there is now no reference to Dr Warlick, who was present at the autopsy and is not cited by Coffey but shares his opinion from a medical point of view. Wertheimer mentions Warlick. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 02:29, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

On what does Wertheimer base his belief of Warlick's opinion? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Warlick is one of the doctors who were present a the autopsy and for that reason alone he is an important medical voice. I have added a very short note to the article. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 02:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but how do we know what his voice says? Does Wertheimer provide a citation for his interpretation? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

It's possible Wertheimer interviewed Warlick. He writes: "Dan Warlick was there when they carved up The King. As chief medical investigator for the state of Tennessee that fateful year, Warlick took part in the autopsy the night of August 16, 1977, to determine what caused the death of Elvis Aron Presley. The official verdict was that the entertainer died from a heart attack. In their book, The Death of Elvis, investigative reporters Charles C. Thompson II and James P. Cole reviewed suppressed autopsy documents and concluded that Elvis died of an accidental drug overdose. Warlick, however, has a different theory that he believes conforms to what he witnessed at Graceland - where Presley's body was found on the floor of his lavish, master bathroom - and in the autopsy room at Baptist Memorial Hospital. Warlick believes Presley's chronic constipation - the result of years of prescription drug abuse and high-fat, high-cholesterol gorging - brought on what's known as Valsalva's maneuver. Put simply, the strain of attempting to defecate compressed the singer's abdominal aorta, shutting down his heart. ... "At the time of Elvis's autopsy, I was there when we did what we call 'run the gut,' when you take some scissors and open the full length of the intestine," Warlick recalls. "He had this horrendous impaction." Warlick says the physicians and experts assembled for the autopsy were astounded by what they saw. "Dehydrated feces that were claylike and went all the way up his descending colon and halfway across his transverse colon. ... He really was backed up." Apparently, that was not unusual. "He was commonly and constantly impacted, I believe," Warlick says." (End of quote.) It should be noted that Warlick's opinion concerning the Valsalva maneuver is also quoted by George Nichopoulos and ‎Rose Clayton Phillips, The King and Dr. Nick: What Really Happened to Elvis and Me (Nashville, TN 2009), pp. 137-138. ADogCalledElvis (talk) 03:25, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2023

Change the word “rape” to Priscilla’s original words of “forcefully made love”. She has made it clear that not only that it was an overstatement, but that wasn’t her intention when writing the book (check out her 2014 Guardian article), as that phrase could easily mean just rough sex. The idea of this being rape is all baseless innuendo and conjecture instead of a straightfoward claim or anything remotely resembling facts. 2600:1012:A021:CEFE:510F:A52C:A35D:16D1 (talk) 15:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 00:27, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2023

I would like to ask for a rewritten version of Elvis Presley’s meeting with President Richard Nixon. This is because the framing of the section implies that Elvis genuinely believes in what he wrote and talked about with him, which is contested since there has been speculation that Presley scheduled this meeting just to add another badge to his drug collection, along with gaining the ability to carry whichever drugs and guns he wanted if he traveled internationally, and that he chose whichever buzzwords and flatteries he could get to get in. Jerry Schilling had stated that some of the stuff Presley said was true (namely his patriotism), while others was bluff, such as disliking the Beatles (he actually liked the Beatles and covered some of their songs before and after the incident). This is so readers won’t be confused and give context since this on it’s own comes it conflict with the rebellious and progressive (given his RS views on race, class, and sexual expression) figure that he conveys.

I also recommend for similar changes to be made on the wikipedia page of his FBI files about his letter to J. Edgar Hoover, since that happened while he was in Washington DC. 172.91.226.123 (talk) 04:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:07, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Change the wording of it as simply a meeting for him to get a badge that he orchestrated, and cut out all the parts of him talking about fighting the “hippie drug culture” and the “anti-American” ways of other musical artists, namely the Beatles. I suggest changing the wording on his FBI files as well. 172.91.226.123 (talk) 05:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi!! I hope everything is all right at your end. My only reason for addressing myself to the people in charge of the Presley page is to suggest they kindly take the view that the MAIN photo which is attached to the MAIN Presley article ought to be one which dovetails nicely with those of the majority of other people, namely a head, serious shot rather han a photo showing his full body. Not only does that photo of "Jailhouse Rock" totally look out of place when seen TOGETHER with those of other persons, even rockers, but it is not one which shows him in a manner commensurate with the seriousness applied to the editing of his article, let alone the massive number of views it received on a daily basis. Elvis Presley was deemed by the BBC 2, in a program in the first decade of this century as the onky musician worthy to be mentkined in their list of the world's most photographed. There are literally millions of photos of Presley and head shots are not in any way hard to find. Thios nis one I am taking the liberty to siggest. Taken at the mid point of his life, at the age of 22.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/34/ea/29/34ea29dd492d09e49975fcd666bdc0fc.jpg

Many thanks 200.62.78.122 (talk) 18:08, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Which songs are we referring to in the synopsis?

In the opening of the article when talking about his breakthrough at RCA Victor, it’s brought up that “With a series of successful television appearances and chart-topping records, Presley became the leading figure of the newly popular rock and roll…” Which chart topping records are being referred to here that put him on the international cultural map, since Elvis had a LOT of hit records, with some being more lasting than others?

Same goes when bringing up his post-Army career in the early 60’s , as quoted “Drafted into military service in 1958, he relaunched his recording career two years later with some of his most commercially successful work.” What songs are being referred to here as well? 2600:1012:A021:CEFE:B8F4:D576:D737:BA44 (talk) 19:18, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

elvis has the most popular us stamp in history

https://postalmuseum.si.edu/exhibition/art-of-the-stamp-the-artwork-stamps-with-a-story/the-elvis-stamp-america-elects-a-king#:~:text=A%20decade%20later%2C%20the%20Elvis,commemorative%20stamp%20of%20all%20time.

please add that to his list of achievements 50.77.26.133 (talk) 17:49, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Although it was voted most popular, and was the most saved (i.e., about a quarter of the 500 million Elvis stamps issued - - triple the normal USPS printing of commemorative stamps), the issuance of a postage stamp nearly 16 years after his death, should not be considered an "achievement" of his. However, it could be listed under a separate section, such as "Elvis in popular culture" or some such, although, granted, the list would be huge, ranging from retail items to parodies to comedy acts, et al. Skaizun (talk) 15:35, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Obviously its am achievement of popularity 174.168.240.31 (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

elvis was the highest streamed artist from 2003 -2013

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2013/10/03/elvis-presley-tops-digitally-streamed-artists-soundexchange/2909811/#:~:text=list%20of%20digitally-,streamed,-artists

can we add this achievement in his bio please. 174.168.240.31 (talk) 16:23, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

elvis has the best selling christmas album in history

Please add in his bio

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrE_GnMZnxlZiELEVYPxQt.;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1702680397/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fen.wikipedia.org%2fwiki%2fList_of_best-selling_Christmas_albums_in_the_United_States/RK=2/RS=oyYHAK14g7n2cPNz0EQD9WAAwe4-

In November 2016, Billboard has compiled a list of the top ten selling Christmas albums, using both RIAA certification information and actual point-of-sale data from Nielsen SoundScan. For albums released before SoundScan started collecting data in 1991, Billboard used their RIAA certification to determine sales. Elvis's Christmas Album (1970 version) / Elvis Presley ~ 10,000,000 174.168.240.31 (talk) 14:49, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2024

Change Aaron to Aron 69.117.174.43 (talk) 05:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Not done: See footnote a in the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:08, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

McCartney has credited Elvis

I'm okay with keeping the criticism part, but not without also including things like a December 2020 comment he made where he called him the second coolest person he ever met. That's what he claimed in December 2020. I want a neutral editing which can include both praise and criticism.[3]

I am not the original person to include this even more reliable NME source which was found by another editor. Paul McCartney credited Elvis for being one of the inspirations the Sgt. Pepper record even in 2007. I thank them greatly. [4]Speakfor23 (talk) 19:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

There's too much stuff about the Beatles and McCartney. It's moving too far into pop culture mode. Excessive detail is not needed; see WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Stuff we add should represent the broad literature on the topic. Binksternet (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2024

Elvis Aron Presley, not Aaron 2C0F:F4C0:B168:88D0:8C4B:5307:B9AE:90F1 (talk) 23:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see the footnote next to his name in the first sentence. Liu1126 (talk) 00:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Death of Elvis Presley

I don't understand why there is not a separate article for the death of Elvis Presley. If there is an article for the death of Marilyn Monroe, there should be an article for the death of Elvis. DementiaGaming (talk) 22:06, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Are you volunteering to work on one? Dimadick (talk) 12:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

If people think we should create an article about it, I volunteer to do one. DementiaGaming (talk) 21:19, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

It would have to be significantly longer and more detailed, it could not simply be a copy and paste of what this article says.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:49, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, Death of Elvis Presley is currently a redirect to this article's death section. If we do want to create an article on Elvis Presley's death, we can use the Murder of Selena and Murder of John Lennon articles (both GAs) as models. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Elvis is the highest selling solo artist in hx

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1742006/Elvis-Presley-Michael-Jackson-Frank-Sinatra 174.168.240.31 (talk) 22:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Please put a better picture

There are multiple pictures that are better which show elvis at his prime. 174.168.240.31 (talk) 11:39, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

please put this blurb back

t is estimated that more than one billion Elvis Presley records have been sold worldwide <https://www.graceland.com/achievements>, Guinness World Records recognizes him as the best-selling solo artist in the world.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1742006/Elvis-Presley-Michael-Jackson-Frank-Sinatra 174.168.240.31 (talk) 12:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Middle name

Elvis’s middle name was Aron, not Aaron. 2600:1700:3260:2BB0:3166:1283:4F47:22BC (talk) 17:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

See discussion in footnote A. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:38, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Elvis Presley sold over 1 billion records

Presley sold over 1 billion records worlwide . 2800:BF0:170:B69:7DA7:3C51:9B94:7138 (talk) 23:23, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Heard this many times .....first was in 1982.... it's got to be more by now...lol. Moxy🍁 23:34, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

I Agree , Elvis sold more than billion records globally . 2800:BF0:170:B69:5C26:9624:139F:1B2E (talk) 01:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you can check the discussion above? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:07, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

i trust gwr over you anyday.

facts dont care about your feelings.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/best-selling-solo-artist 161.11.160.60 (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Voice impression in Blue's clues

Steve did a voice impression of Elvis in end of the episode, "What Story does Blue Want to Play?" mostly for the "Now It's time for so long" song.

And now it's time for so long
But we'll sing just one more song
Well thanks for doing your part
(Doo-wah!)
Steve: You sure are smart
You know with me, and you, and hound dog Blue
We can do anything that we wanna do

NoahAlexanderJohnson101 (talk) 04:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Role model

He was also a role model of Bruno Mars. 41.186.78.216 (talk) 10:50, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) published a list of the 150 best-selling artists (albums and singles worldwide) in early 2006.

Top ten:

Elvis Presley - 1,485,000,000

The Beatles - 1,350,000,000

Bing Crosby - 900,000,000

Frank Sinatra - 650,000,000

Michael Jackson - 400,000,000

ABBA - 370,000,000

Elton John - 360,000,000

Madonna - 350,000,000

Cliff Richard - 250,000,000

The Rolling Stones - 240,000,000

Singers Male:

Elvis Presley - 1,485,000,000

Bing Crosby - 900,000,000

Frank Sinatra - 650,000,000

Michael Jackson - 400,000,000

Elton John - 250,000,000

Cliff Richard - 250,000,000

For female singers:

Madonna - 389,000,000 (singles+albums+live DVD)

Nana Mouskouri - 250,000,000

Céline Dion - 250,000,000

Mariah Carey - 210,000,000

Cher - 190,000,000

Whitney Houston - 189,000,000

Tina Turner - 180,000,000

As for music groups:

The Beatles - 1,350,000,000

Abba - 370,000,000

The Rolling Stones - 240,000,000

Conclusion: Among male artists, the leader by far is Elvis Presley, with almost 1.5 billion records sold. As for women, Madonna is clearly in the lead, with more than 350 million records sold worldwide. Nana Mouskouri is in second place, with sales mainly in Europe. Zeus Argon (talk) 04:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

We already had a discussion about this, it's archived. This list is fake, and the IFPI has never reported these figures. The actual list that allegedly came from the IFPI claims that The Beatles sold 400 million records, Michael Jackson sold 350 million records and Elvis Presley sold 300 million records. These numbers were far more realistic, however we can't trace it back to them, so i'm skeptical about it too. [5]

As it stands right now, even claiming that Elvis has sold 500 million records is incredibly unrealistic and should probably be lowered. Never17 (talk) 19:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

What proof do you have? i trust the gwr and multiple articles stating elvis is the highest selling solo artist in hx over your opinion. 161.11.160.60 (talk) 13:55, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@ Never17 Presley and Crosby are best seller artists in the history ,this is not place to Michael Jackson's Fans. 2800:BF0:170:B69:41D1:8B53:35C2:5183 (talk) 15:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@ Never17

Guinness 97

https://archive.org/details/guinnessbookofre0000unse_a8h8/page/174/mode/1up?q=Bing+Crosby+ 2800:BF0:170:B69:41D1:8B53:35C2:5183 (talk) 15:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Sony records states elvis is the best selling solo artist in hx.

You and your wiki editor counterparts increased Michael Jackson's sales from 400 million to 500 million placing him above Elvis Presley based on total available certifications? that's a hundred million in sales, that is more than the 89 million that the RIAA gives credit to Jackson for album sales in the United States. 161.11.160.60 (talk) 14:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markbeech/2018/04/07/elvis-is-back-with-new-money-maker-as-u-s-album-certifications-total-146-5-million/#:~:text=The%20Elvis%20cash%20machine%20is,solo%20artist%20of%20all%20time.

The Elvis cash machine is spinning while his record company, Sony, says that his U.S. album sales alone have now exceeded 146.5 million. That figure is just part of the more than a billion records sold worldwide, making him the best-selling solo artist of all time 161.11.160.60 (talk) 14:10, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree , Wikipedia is not place to Michael Jackson's fans. Presley sold over 1 billion records at 90's , Guinness at 1997 said that Elvis Presley and Bing Crosby are the best seller artist in the history. 2800:BF0:170:B69:41D1:8B53:35C2:5183 (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

please put entirely the article you cite from.

Widely acclaimed as the best-selling solo music artist of all time, Presley has sold more than 500 million records and holds the distinction for most songs charting on Billboard's Top 40 with 114 hits. 161.11.160.60 (talk) 15:58, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#CITEREFReuters2022161.11.160.60 (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Salvabl: I removed edits made by this sockpuppet[6] and restored the sales numbers. I believe you are concerned only about the sales numbers.

The 1 billion figure stayed on this article for many years. See this version. It does not have to be removed all of now. The 1 billion figure is reliably sourced and many other reliable sources are there to support it.[7][8][9][10] Also see the articles on Michael Jackson and The Beatles that have also noted 1 billion number. I had already included the sales number into notes to find a compromise. There should be no reason for you to remove it. Orientls (talk) 04:49, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

There is a consensus on the talk page of the "List of Best-Selling Artists" to exclude the 1 billion sales claims for artists such as The Beatles, Elvis Presley, and Michael Jackson, despite multiple independent sources supporting these figures. Editors agree that these claims are inflated and promoted by record labels and artists for promotional purposes. Therefore, we are not including the 1 billion sales claims for any artist. If you wish to mention these claims, you may add them in a hat note, similar to the approach taken in articles like those for The Beatles and Michael Jackson. TheWikiholic (talk) 13:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Good day. I want to apologize because I did not check the content that the sockpuppet user added (I just considered it a stable part of the article); I find its removal appropriate.

Now, focusing on the sales figures issue, we have to keep in mind that since the end of March 2023, the 1 billion figure has not been present in this article for 1 year and 2 months. Therefore, the stable version of this article is the one that includes the 500M figure in the main text. So, I consider that the appropriate thing to do would be to revert the last edit, and thereafter try to reach a consensus on possible extension of the information about claimed sales, the figures themselves, etc. (as it is stipulated that it should be done, according to WP:ONUS). In the vast majority of articles about music artists/bands, claimed sales figures are stated in the main text (e.g. Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Beyoncé...). Salvabl (talk) 16:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

I've just removed the 1 billion figure for now. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:20, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

@SJones23: You must re-check the messages by both Orientls and TheWikiholic. I also agree with their position, as such we have consensus here.

Let me quote the relevant parts. Orientls said: "I had already included the sales number into notes to find a compromise. There should be no reason for you to remove it." TheWikiholic said: "If you wish to mention these claims, you may add them in a hat note, similar to the approach taken in articles like those for The Beatles and Michael Jackson.".

That said, this version which was being preserved by Orientls and you (for sometime) was the correct version and in line with what is also mentioned on the pages of Michael Jackson[11] and The Beatles,[12] since they have also placed the billion figure under the notes. You should do a self-revert again. Thanks TolWol (talk) 04:49, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done unless there are objections. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:07, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Salvabl There is no need to add specific figure when the figure broadly varies. You have ignored the facts like it was already in 1987 that Elvis was noted for selling 1 billion records.[13] You have mentioned Irish Times and Reuters but ignored the more reliable CNN which mentioned 1 billion figure.[14] Such WP:CHERRYPICKING is not allowed and you can best leave it as is. TolWol (talk) 05:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello TolWol. As far as I know the 1 billion figure appeared even before 1987; it was published for the first time in 1982 in The Washington Post. However, that figure only started to "spread" in 2001, when RCA Records claimed that Presley's sales were 1 billion records. Because of this, and taking WP:CONTEXTMATTERS into account, I think it is important to provide appropriate explanations, as far as possible, to readers.

It's like if today a journal publishes an exaggeratedly inflated figure for Taylor Swift, claiming that she has sold more than 1 billion records. Maybe 20 years from now there will be numerous news sources claiming that figure, but right now it would be something exaggerated that should not be taken into account for an encyclopedia.

That's why I modified the footnote, to try to provide information that would help, as much as possible, to have context about the different claimed sales figures. However, I understand that the content of the footnote can be disputed. When content is disputed, the situation prior to the dispute should stand, which in this case is the absence of the footnote; nevertheless, in this case, I have not removed it. The current footnote contains correct information, since what it explains (that there are claimed sales figures of up to 1 billion records) is an objective fact, but it is also an objective fact that there is no consensus for the removal of the 500M figure from the main text.

For that reason, there is a difference between covering the 1 billion figure in the footnote, keeping the 500M figure supported by consensus resulting from numerous previous discussions, and removing that figure from the main text, even when there are users who oppose it and there is no consensus to support it in the present discussion, placing the figure in the footnote and giving it the same relevance as the 1 billion figure. Salvabl (talk) 00:48, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

You took almost 1 month to come back and remove the consensus wording only to impose your favorite figure of "500 million". Why? Nobody is saying "1 billion" on lead contrary to your claim. We are just making the lead rid of any sales claim because no single figure is more reliable than the other.

Again, there is no particular figure which can be said "is more authentic" than the other when it comes to the sales of Elvis Presley.

Keep the whole thing on footnote and stop this sneaky removal only because the above editor (TolWol is not active. Orientls (talk) 16:42, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

elvis was a top box office draw ( please add to achievements)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Ten_Money_Making_Stars_Poll 161.11.160.60 (talk) 12:53, 9 August 2024 (UTC)