Talk:Elke Mackenzie

Elke Mackenzie has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 18, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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Women in Green: Around the World in 31 Days

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Wiki Education assignment: Gender and Identity in STEM

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allexaty (article contribs).

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Elke Mackenzie/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Moriwen (talk · contribs) 17:49, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Excited to look over this! She seems extremely cool.

I agree, and thanks for taking on this review! Esculenta (talk) 18:13, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This was a really fun read! There are a few changes I'd suggest but they're mostly nitpicking; I expect this to be a quick and easy turnaround to hit GA status.

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Gender notes

Obviously gender is something to be handled sensitively here, and overall this article seems like it does well with it. There's a few things I'd recommend adjusting, which I'll list below.

Infobox image: MOS:GIDINFO gently discourages using a pre-transition photo as the lead image on articles like this. I wonder if it mightn't be better to use that cool lichen image from later in the article, or maybe something like this photo (since it doesn't look like post-transition photos are available).

I'm going to invoke WP:IAR on this one, because I think removing the lead image would result in a decrease in encyclopaedic value for the reader. It's an excellent image, showing the subject in their "natural work habitat" (with a lichen-covered rock in the background, no less!). I also note regarding those "best practices", it clearly states "These best practices should not be taken as thoroughly vetted by the community nor representing consensus". Esculenta (talk) 04:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pronoun use: for the most part, the article (correctly) uses she/her pronouns throughout Mackenzie's life, but it slips up twice in the first paragraph of the "personal life" section.

Yeah, it was awkward to write this part; I've attempted to reword to tweak the prose and pronoun usage. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pronoun use in direct quotes: 'he wrote that Mackenzie was "greatly admired by all for his gentle kindness and generosity"' seems like it could be conveniently trimmed to something like 'he wrote that Mackenzie was broadly admired for her "gentle kindness and generosity"'.

Done. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

"Beginning her education at the Edinburgh Academy, Mackenzie later pursued botany at Edinburgh University, earning a Bachelor of Science degree in 1933." -- this seems like it can probably be dropped from the lead and just covered in the body

I reworded this to remove the mention of the first institution, but think it's important to include some summary from the "Early life" section to comply with WP:LEAD. Esculenta (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Her career highlights include a secret World War II mission, Operation Tabarin, in Antarctica," -- this starts off sounding like it's going to be a list of career highlights, so I think the reader is inclined to trip over the realization that the secret World War II mission and Operation Tabarin are the same. Could probably be improved by just diving right in with "In Operation Tabarin, a secret World War II mission to Antarctica, she..."; I think "secret World War II mission" sounds cool enough that the reader will be able to deduce it being a career highlight just fine.

Reworked the prose. Esculenta (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Mackenzie's academic pursuits led her to positions" -- this feels a little pretentious. Maybe something like "Over the course of her career in academia, Mackenzie held positions..."?

Reworded. Esculenta (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Starting sentences with "Notably," isn't ideal. Actually I'd be inclined to drop all of "Notably, in 1971, Mackenzie transitioned, renaming herself to Elke Mackenzie and faced institutional prejudice as a result. Despite facing adversity," and just cover that later in the article.

Removed the notably's, but think it would be disingenuous to not mention the transitioning – a major life event that's discussed in nearly all of the sources about her. Esculenta (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Polar Medals -- the link here goes only to the British polar medal, which seems suboptimal, but I'm having trouble tracking down a US polar medal. Is it the same as the United States Antarctic Expedition Medal, do you think? (Incidentally, I notice the former page failed to acknowledge Mackenzie among the female recipients. I've fixed that.)

I've looked gain at all the sources that mention polar medals:

Llano 1991 says "was the recipient of both the British and United States Polar Medals." (Llano was a polar explorer colleague)
Taylor 1990 says "was awarded the Polar Medal" (singular) (Taylor was a polar explorer colleague)
Mackenzie-Lamb 2014 says "For these efforts, he would later by awarded the Antarctic Polar Medal by two countries, Great Britain and Argentina". (author was the grandson)

... so I'm still not sure how to deal with this; I'll look around for other sources, and make a decision soon. Esculenta (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Decision made: the Haddelsey 2014 source clearly states that Mackenzie received polar awards from both the UK and the US, and explains for what they were awarded. I think the "US polar medal" being referred to by this (and the Llano 1991 source) is the Antarctica Service Medal, but they don't call it by this name explicitly, so I haven't done so in the article either. I removed the British Polar Award link in the lead, and have been deliberately vague about the US one so that the text is covered by the sources. Esculenta (talk) 03:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

All looks well here!

Career

One broad note: several of the sources mention Mackenzie facing a series of difficulties and setbacks in her professional career, which feels like it doesn't quite come together in this article. For instance, this source mentions that she was forced to sell off her collections to pay off debts (which was presumably something of a professional hardship); the article mentions both the sale and the debts, but doesn't connect the two. Similarly, a couple of sources mention the catastrophic loss of large numbers of notes to a gust of wind, which I think doesn't come up in the article? And it looks like she lost materials to a fire as well. I don't know that I have a specific request here, but I'd love to see a little discussion of this come together, since it seems to be a recurring theme in her biographies.

I've added more details about the windy incident, the herbarium sale, and other bits that hopefully provide a fuller picture of the life difficulties encountered. The fire was already mentioned in the last paragraph of "Personal life". Esculenta (talk) 03:03, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The second paragraph here is a little overwhelming. It might be nice to break it up. Possibly one paragraph on the logistics of the exploration, and another paragraph on her lichen-related research and discoveries, would work well?

More information added, and paragraph broken up into three now. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Mackenzie is famous for" -- feels slightly on the subjective side of the line. Maybe something like "Although a civilian, Mackenzie volunteered for"? (Or just "Mackenzie took part in", but it wasn't obvious to me until I looked at some of the sources that she wasn't otherwise involved with the military, and that it was a volunteer position.)

Used your latter suggestion, thanks. Esculenta (talk) 03:03, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"On the surface, it was" -- wait, then what was it really? (Also, relatedly, why was it secret?)

Reworded. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"participated in several brief manhauling expeditions" -- this feels like just slightly too much text to take directly from the source. The sentence ends up being a little bit repetitive anyway, between "manhauling" and "hauled by hand"; rephrasing might be in order.

This bit has been rephrased. Esculenta (talk) 03:03, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"from Labrador, Canada," -- second comma unnecessary

Fixed. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like technically Mackenzie didn't personally collect 1,030 specimens; if I'm reading the source correctly, the other expedition members were also participating in the specimen collection. Maybe "were collected under Mackenzie's supervision" or something like that.

Reworded. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"United by their common interest in lichens, Ahmadjian" -- this doesn't quite work out for me grammatically, Ahmadjian being one person who can't very well be united. Probably needs rephrasing.

Reworded. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"for its dubious scholarship" -- maybe "for what she described as its dubious scholarship"?

Done. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Her judgement was later vindicated" -- feels a touch less than neutral; maybe soften to something like "Other scientists have since agreed with Mackenzie's position, opining about" etc?

Done. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If there's any more content to be had on the professional rivalry, I'd love to see it (did Dodge have any comments on Mackenzie, or was this a one-sided sort of thing?)

I think it was mostly one-sided (the only thing I found that Dodge wrote about Mackenzie was a thanks for lending some specimens); I've added a bit more information to flesh this out slightly. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

"Apparently," -- elaborate on what this means?

Reworded. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"underwent a gender-affirming surgery" -- definitely saw this mentioned in some of the sources, but it doesn't look like it's actually in the particular one cited at the end of this sentence? probably something to make extra sure has a good citation

Added a second source for this. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"She was forced into a early retirement after transition, as many institutions were disapproving of her choice, as stated by her friend Laurence Senelick." -- definitely want a citation on this

Added. Esculenta (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"text books" --> "textbooks"

Fixed. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"After transitioning," -- can probably just omit this clause, since the article already said she transitioned in 1971

Done. Esculenta (talk) 21:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"citing political unrest" -- source? doesn't appear to be in the next citation

It's there on page 317 ("... Lamb states that the Costa Rican home was sold in 1980 because of the political unrest." Esculenta (talk) 20:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"She took up woodworking, but was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease" -- this feels like a slightly weird "but"; not sure the two clauses are opposed.

Rewrote this bit. Esculenta (talk) 22:18, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"In some of her final publications, Mackenzie cited the help of "Miss Elke Mackenzie"." -- seems like it would make more sense to bring this up chronologically earlier, before her death. Maybe an earlier sentence could become "...renamed herself to Elke Mackenzie, a name she cited as an assistant in some of her final publications"? Or something similar.

Done. Esculenta (talk) 20:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Her lifelong work" -- tempted to suggest a paragraph break here, after her death and before the discussion of her unfinished work. (Possibly with the obituaries moved in between the two.)

Done. Esculenta (talk) 20:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recognition

Slightly odd to choose this as the place to wikilink lichen. Probably that should be on the article's first mention of lichen.
Now linked at first mention. Esculenta (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Selected publications

Looks good!

@Moriwen: I've responded to all of the points in your most excellent review, and am ready for you to have another look. Esculenta (talk) 04:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This looks fantastic to me! Thank you for all the fiddly changes; I'm finalizing now.

Family

Just wanted to throw a few links to Mackenzie's family. Perhaps some tidbits may be worthy of inclusion. Her son Eric Mackenzie-Lamb seems to be a somewhat notable author, at least having been mentioned in Allen J. Hubin's Crime Fiction IV: A Comprehensive Bibliography 1749-2000.^[1] He seems to be a pretty active travel writer.^[2]^[3] Mackenzie's grandson wrote an interesting piece about his grandparent in the The St. Kitts-Nevis Observer.^[4] Anyway, might help somebody going down a research rabbit hole. Mbdfar (talk) 01:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks much, Mbdfar! I will have a look and try to use appropriately. Esculenta (talk) 13:15, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Hubin, Allen J. Crime Fiction IV: A Comprehensive Bibliography 1749-2000. Lotus Press. Retrieved 12 October 2023.
^ "Eric Mackenzie Lamb - search results". The St Kitts Nevis Observer. 24 July 2020. Retrieved 12 October 2023.
^ Mackenzie-Lamb, Eric (21 August 2011). "There Really Are People Like That". The New York Times.
^ Mackenzie-Lamb, Antonio (14 October 2014). "A Voyage To The Last Continent: Breaking The Ice In Antartica". The St Kitts Nevis Observer. Retrieved 12 October 2023.

[1] Hubin, Allen J. Crime Fiction IV: A Comprehensive Bibliography 1749-2000. Lotus Press. Retrieved 12 October 2023.

[2] "Eric Mackenzie Lamb - search results". The St Kitts Nevis Observer. 24 July 2020. Retrieved 12 October 2023.

[3] Mackenzie-Lamb, Eric (21 August 2011). "There Really Are People Like That". The New York Times.

[4] Mackenzie-Lamb, Antonio (14 October 2014). "A Voyage To The Last Continent: Breaking The Ice In Antartica". The St Kitts Nevis Observer. Retrieved 12 October 2023.

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