Talk:Edvard Grieg/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

It may not be helpful to include a comment on Grieg's 1900's take on "Gentleman Rankers". It has been said to be a precursor of The yankeddoodle Song. I understand Grieg's efforts were not published 'till 1000. Could be an interesting tale. Regrettably, I do have the background to do this to Wikipedia standards.

X17bc8 (talk) 03:02, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments

The paragraph about Liszt and Grieg doesn't make sense and was obviously written by a non-native speaker of English. Can someone make sense of it and clean it up please? 14:56, 24 November 2005 66.214.230.155

I agree... Pfalstad 00:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you Pavel for removing every single addition I have made to wikipedia, yet I want to share a website I have found which has free audio files for many composers. Grieg audio MP3 files I would like to know what people who actually understand music (unlike my good friend Pavel Vozenilek) think about this free audio website. Thanks for your time.

(The edit above was from User:Musicalplayer.)

The edits are like links as [1] and few more ones for other composers.

Now, the question is whether the link is or isn't appropriate for the article. Pavel Vozenilek 06:18, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not appropriate. See Talk:Sergei Rachmaninoff#pianoparadise.com. Dewet 15:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bull related to Grieg's mother??

I removed the text saying that Bull was Gesine's brother-in-law. That would make Bull Grieg's uncle by marriage. This is not supported by any reference I have ever seen. Bull's wives were French and American. Neither of them could have been the sister of the Norwegian Gesine Judith Hagerup. JackofOz 00:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You're right. He was merely a friend of the family AFAIK. — Pladask 15:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Too fast ... actually, Ole's brother was married to Gesine's sister, which doesn't make Ole Gesine's brother-in-law, but somewhat of a semi-brother-in-law. :-) I'll edit the article accordingly. — Pladask 16:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

That would normally be described as "Bull was Grieg's uncle's brother" (the uncle relationship here being one created through marriage). -- JackofOz (talk) 08:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Morning Mood typically associated with nordic scenes?

Morning Mood was a favorite of Carl Stalling who often used it for morning establishing shots in Warner Bros. cartoons. It is now typically associated with nordic scenes; however, it was meant to depict sunrise over the Sahara Desert.

After growing up with Warner Bros. cartoons, I associate Morning Mood with sunrise over American countrysides, not "nordic scenes" as mentioned above. (I'm 39 years old.) I'm wondering who "typically associates it with nordic scenes." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.10.181.199 (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Mountain King and Peer Gynt

Is it not redundant to list both In The Hall of the Mountain King and Peer Gynt on the front page for Grieg? The article for Mountain King says that the song was actually written for Gynt. I'd change it myself, but won't, for fear of having missed something.

Realdeal 55 07:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Quality of Article

The article has too many sentences with abrupt ends. "In 18XX he survived a lung disease." What lung disease. Discuss —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.112.45.224 (talk) 00:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Complete list of works

At the bottom of the page there is a link to a list of Grieg's works. The problem is this list isn't complete. I got several pieces of Grieg's music which instead of opus numbers have letters EG (and numbers of course). Like EG107 - Funeral March dedicated to someone. Is this a catalogue of unpublished works, an alternative catalogue or what? Thanks in advance. Nikolay, Moscow217.21.216.48 09:26, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Now I have made a complete list. Grieg has many unpublished works - they are EG. Karstein 00:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I tried to update the list today, but perhaps Karstein himself should do some editing again. It might be useful to make a difference between works Grieg never completed any movements of, and works he actually finished some movements of. The piano quintet and the second piano concerto have no completed movements at all whereas Grieg rewrote 2 movements of the string quartet in F, and one movement of a piano trio, respectively. (193.161.89.17 (talk) 09:07, 1 September 2009 (UTC))

The extra link to Grieg's works should be removed as the extern list isn't complete at all. The complete list of works linked directly to the article is much more satisfying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.213.52.137 (talk) 19:05, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

EG 182 is not a composition by Grieg. The piece is written by pianist Edmund Neupert who played Grieg's piano concerto for the very first time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.0.208.178 (talk) 04:41, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

It's difficult to answer the very first question about the meaning of the EG list. Basically these are compositions that either didn't get an opus number, or were published after Grieg's death. Unfortunately some fragments have found their way onto the list, too. Some arrangements (as the 6 songs with orchestra) have gotten EG numbers, others (e.g. 'Møte' for song and orchestra) have not. Some alternate versions of songs (e.g. the one from op. 44) have gotten EG numbers, others (as four of the 5 songs dedicated to Louis Hornbeck) have not. 195.0.208.178 (talk) 14:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Infobox

I see that 'Fireplace' has again removed the infobox, claiming consensus where, clearly, none exists, and resorting to ad hominem attacks in his edit summaries. Andy Mabbett 13:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

For consensus, see here and here. Regarding my edit summaries, see generally Pigsonthewing's block log and his history at ANI. See specifically the ANI regarding this user surrounding infoboxes and the subsequent ArmCom enforcement. Note also that Pigsonthewing is currently gaming the system by reverting this article once a week to avoid the terms of his ArbCom probation. Fireplace 14:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

For lack of consensus, see this article's edit history, and the last week or so on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers. For ad hominem, see above. Andy Mabbett 14:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

There is a broad consensus among classical composer editors, as instantiated in the guidelines at WikiProject Composers, WikiProject Opera, and WikiProject Biography that biographical infoboxes are not appropriate for composer articles. Two editors seem to be insisting that that consensus be reinstantiated on this articles talk page. So, I'll add my voice opposing its use, for all the reasons given in all the identical discussions prior. Fireplace 18:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Those editors do not own this article, nor any other article or set of articles. And there isn't even consensus on that project's talk pages. Nor does WP Biography say what you claim. Andy Mabbett 19:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm staying neutral, but Pigsonthewing's argument seems to be better. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  19:49, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but there will be an influx of people pretending that there is consensus shortly, despite the evidence that no consensus exists. Andy Mabbett 20:06, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm still neutral, mind you, but there's a user who probably knows more about music-related stuff than I do (I'm only an amateur) who i have asked to come and help us. I hope you don't mind that I will be perfectly fine with whichever side turns out to be right. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  20:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm fine with whichever side turns out to be right, too. I'm not fine with one side pretending that they're right, and that the other side doesn't exist. Andy Mabbett 20:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Seems useful to me. I think it should stay. --JJay 21:32, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Andy, I'd appreciate it if you didn't automatically assume poor faith. For example, I already know now that I'm part of "an influx of people pretending that there is no consensus."

In the bigger scheme of things, our priority should be on building excellent articles. This one is not yet excellent. For example it needs a detailed section on Grieg's works and style. I strongly suggest that everyone devote their energies to this end, rather than arguing over whether or not to include an infobox. We do have a general consensus not to include them, a consensus with which I am happy. If you insist on putting in an infobox I probably won't be the one removing it, but I will gently nudge people to spend their time instead on improving the article rather than fighting over infoboxes. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 23:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't "automatically assume bad faith"; I speak from experience. And I was right - you are pretending that there is consensus, where none exists. Andy Mabbett 23:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually Andy, you were assuming bad faith, in that from your view everyone is wrong by default and you are the only right one. "General consensus": this means it might not be an official thing, but just something that everybody has pretty much agreed on.

While I originally reverted any edits made to remove the infobox, I will now revert any edits to add it—and improve the article at the same time may I add. —  $PЯINGrαgђ  23:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I repeat: I was not assuming bad faith; I was speaking from experience. I don;t think that "I'm the only right one"; I just know - as do others - that a group of people are claiming consensus where it's plain that none exists - general or otherwise. Andy Mabbett 09:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Keep infobox off -- per 20 other discussions at other places. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 03:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, no infobox. Andy's behaviour on this issue has been consistently trollish - I urge editors not to respond and if he reverts, report it at WP:ANI and ask he be banned from editing the page. Eusebeus 11:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Accusing someone of trolling because you don't like them pointing out the fallacious nature of your - collective - arguments is an unacceptable personal attack. Desist. Your suggestion that people refuse to discuss the issue is further evidence of the untenable nature of your position. Andy Mabbett 11:17, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No infobox, please. --Folantin 20:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

This has been discussed again and again and again - and always there is a strong consensus against using infoboxes. Time to move on and contribute to the encyclopedia! -- Kleinzach 11:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Troldhaugen: who's wedding?

Who's wedding was celebrated in hoe land "Wedding Day at Troldhaugen"? Thank you, Shir-El too 01:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC) Comments? Anyone? Shir-El too 09:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

FGI: This question was canvassed @ Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2007 November 23#Troldhaugen: Who's Wedding?. It was inconclusive; a suggestion that it was celebrate his own 25th wedding anniversary seems not to stack up, mathematically. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:26, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

The Piece was written for a friend as a birthday(!) present in 1896 and had nothing to do with a wedding in the first place. The original titel was "The congratulators arriving". When Grieg edited his Lyric Pieces, op. 65, he simply gave it a new title. For further references, read Edvard Grieg - Versuch einer Orientierung by K.H. Oelmann (Deutsche Hochschulschriften 485, 1993) or the English edition of the Benestad/Schjelderup-Ebbe biography (cf. main article). (193.161.89.17 (talk) 08:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC))

Norway?

I think Grieg is Swedish cuz his song (Peer Gynt) is in the SVT2's testcard music found in YouTube --125.25.32.174 (talk) 08:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I see you are editing from Thailand, so you may not be aware that Grieg was born in Norway. Norway and Sweden are part of the Scandinavian Peninsula and have been intimately involved throughout history, going so far as uniting between 1814-1905. The inclusion of music from Peer Gynt on Swedish TV could be interpreted as Scandinavism or just cultural pride, and that would probably be accurate, but it should be remembered that the Peer Gynt Suites remain immensely popular throughout the word. So even if Sveriges Television is making an allusion to their shared heritage, the fact remains that Grieg's music speaks to everyone, and it is this universal accessibility that is responsible for its continued success. Simply put, Grieg's music transcends the simple boundaries of ordinary folk music enclosed by politics and nationality and emerges unfettered, free from social constraints. This is what makes Grieg's music important; it speaks to human nature across time and space, on its own. Viriditas (talk) 10:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, Solveig's song strongly resembles the Swedish Ack, Värmeland, du sköna —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.161.89.17 (talk) 08:45, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Whatever the music may remind people of, nothing can alter the fact that Grieg was Norwegian, not Swedish. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This is a pretty nice b-class article; some parts could be more detailed. My full review is on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 20:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Sad

I am in physical pain from the sorry state of this article. Please help improve it! The man was a genius! Viriditas (talk) 08:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

lyrics to Hall Of The Mountain King, Or March of The Trolls

Does anyone know the full lyrics to Hall Of The Mountain King I would sing it in elementary school around Halloween but have forgotten the rest of the lyrics. It was many years ago (I'm now 50yr). I've tried to do extensive searching for the lyrics and have one ran across one post (a women named Martha) she is also looking for the lyrics. She said it was from the 40's and set to the classical Grieg Hall Of The Mountain King. http://www.seattlesubsonic.com/2008/10/06/halloween-music-101part-1/

It went something like this.

On October thirty one when the sun comes to rest It the night of Halloween when fun is at it's best. In the Hall Of The Mountain King Lived a King a weird old thing Many trolls surrounded him in his mountain home. Many trolls had three head, even one sometimes two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.161.12.75 (talk) 13:22, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Battle of Culloden

Comments on this sentence:

"After the Battle of Culloden in 1746, his great-grandfather traveled widely[...]"

Edvard Grieg's great-grandfather Alexander Greig was seven year in 1746, and he probably left Scotland more than ten years after the Battle of Culloden. There is no verifiable causality between the battle and the fact that Alexander left Scotland, so although the sentence is correct in a chronological sense it does not convey any meaningful information. Source:

Benestad, Finn; Schjelderup-Ebbe, Dag (1980). Edvard Grieg - mennesket og kunstneren, Oslo: Aschehoug & Co. (W. Nygaard). ISBN 82-03-10239-5. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaitil (talk • contribs) 08:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Date check

"In 1863, Grieg went to Copenhagen, Denmark, and stayed there for three years. He met the Danish composers J. P. E. Hartmann and Niels Gade. He also met his fellow Norwegian composer Rikard Nordraak (composer of the Norwegian national anthem), who became a good friend and source of great inspiration. Nordraak died in 1866, and Grieg composed a funeral march in his honor. Grieg had close ties with the Bergen Philharmonic Orchestra (Harmonien), and later became Music Director of the orchestra from 1880–1882."

^^ Is there a reason it included the part of Music Director of the orchestra from 1880-1882, it isn't in chronological order and doesn't fit in the paragraph. Or is it an error and its really 1870-1872 which would make more sense chronologically. The Wojo (talk) 20:37, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

It's 1880-82 all right. Klausthemusician (talk) 22:04, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Opus 17, Part 22

At The Woodentops (TV series) it is noted that the opening and closing theme music is taken from Grieg's Opus 17, Part 22. It claims that the title of this part is ""Kulokk" or "Cow Call". The article for Grieg's compositions, however, gives tfe title as "So lokka me over den myra", which seems to translate as "So enticed me over the marsh". Furthermore, "lokk" seems to translate as "lid"?? So, how do ""Kulokk" and "Cow Call" fit in here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:14, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello. "Kulokk" appears to be the nick name for "So lokka me over den myra". Amazon. The phrase is in a dialect or poetic New-Norwegian. It means "So we called over the marsh". Might be the words of the milkmaids who are calling the cows. "Lokke"/"lokk" can mean several things in Norwegian, including calling for cows or other animals in a singing way. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 12:50, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for the clarification. So it means, essentially, something like "calling the cows home". I'm still not sure which is the best way to refer to it in that article. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Whatever you do, please do not continue their extremely strange practice of referring to it by its opus number alone (as if that meant anything to anyone). It's No. 22 from 25 Norske Folkeviser og Danser (25 Norwegian Folk Songs and Dances), Op. 17. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:57, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Edvard Grieg/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Edvard Grieg: 2009-02-13== This is an assessment of article Edvard Grieg by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? Later life is sketchy. ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. Good. Organization of works without opus should be explained. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? There is room to expand here. ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) ok, but do we really need two interleaved versions of the piano concerto? ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has references; some inline citations. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) lead could be expanded; short paragraphs should be combined or expanded. ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article lead needs work (WP:LEAD) Article prose needs work (WP:MOS) ===Summary=== This is actually a fairly decent overview of the man and his music. It could use some expansion, both in his later life (elaborate on how fame was brought to him, for example), and the musicology, which, while relatively succinct, could use elaboration. Parts of the article have one- and two-line paragraphs; attempts should be made to expand or combine them. While the article has what appear to be adequate references, a formal review will require more inline citations in the article. Article is B-class. Magic♪piano 20:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 14:10, 29 April 2016 (UTC)