Talk:Devil May Cry (novels)

Proposed Layout

• Devil May Cry 1
  • Plot Summary
  • Development and Reception
  • Differences from Devil May Cry 3
• Devil May Cry 2
  • Plot Summary
  • Development and Reception

I mention the "Differences from Devil May Cry 3" point because it seems that the novel and game directly contradict each other in a very radical way.

• According to DMC3, Dante has gone by the name "Dante" for quite some time. His guns have been with him since at least the age of 18, and his at-the-time unnamed shop has been his place of residence since that time. In the events of DMC3 he meets his brother again, having met him relatively recently, and they have a number of interactions. Post DMC3, Dante continues his devil hunting and Vergil fights and is defeated by Mundus, becoming Nelo Angelo.

• According to the novel, Dante essentially went into hiding after his mother was killed, going by the name of "Tony Redgrave" and working as a mercenary with a man named "Grue". During this time Dante goes through a number of different pistols, none of which can withstand his rapid firing. He meets a bandaged man named "Gilver", working with him for a while. He eventually fights him after Gilver turns all the mercenaries Dante knew into demons, though discovers after their fight that "Gilver" was his brother Vergil, someone he notes he hadn't seen since the death of their mother. His pistols Ebony and Ivory were created as the last work of a local gunsmith, and Dante recieves them right before the events of Devil May Cry 1.

My only worry in creating a section like this might be treading into WP:SYNTH issues. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 16:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Good points all. I think you can avoid OR by simply noting the continuity differences without drawing any conclusions. They differ, end of story. I think I heard somewhere (reliable, huh?) that at least the first book was based on Kamiya's original vision of the continuity, but the games aren't his responsibility any longer and that timeline was abandoned. If I can get a cite on that I'll provide it. I own the first novel but didn't finish it, so I can't help with much else in terms of the summary. --Boradis 21:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree the storyline differences between them can be noted long as there are no mention of the word canon, remember [canon=weasel word]. The funny thing is that after I finished adding the plot for the manga page, I was going to post a thread on the project's talk page to ask members that possesed the novels to cooperate in building a page for them, ironic isn't it?-凶 23:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I actually just picked up the second novel today just so I can get a move on writing this article and getting it to GA-class ASAP, so I'm probably going to read it tomorrow on the bus trip to work so I can write some things about it. The novels are really helpful, actually. There's a post-script by the author dated November 2004 detailing his thoughts on the novel, and there's an Afterward written by Kamiya. The second novel likewise has a Post Script on the novel. I can easily weave those into the non-plot aspects of each book's writeup without worrying about having to dig up interviews elsewhere.

Hmmmm, while I know the word canon is taboo, it might be more neutral to mention that the first novel was written with input Kamiya, who was no longer assigned to the Devil May Cry project. That would be a way of working around the weasel words problem while still mentioning that yes, the scenario writers for Devil May Cry 3 decided to completely ignore them in favor of the storyline they created for Devil May Cry 3. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 23:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Great I'm looking foward to seeing your work, are you intending to raise this one also to FA or should we raise Dante there first? I will be working on adding references to the manga page tonight and will try to have it up for GAC in less than two days. Not really sure about Enzo though...-凶 23:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm planning on bullrushing this to FA-class as soon as it's reasonably possible. I figure I should be at GA-class by the end of the week, with the article up as an FAC soon afterwards. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 23:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Shin-Ya Goikeda? Shin-ya Goikeda? Shinya Goikeda?

The first is the label, per the cover of the book and the copyright. The second is the form used on the credits page opposite the table of contents. The third is used in the author's post-script in both books and also on the author's Amazon page, as well as returning twice as many google hits as any of the other listings. For now I'm going to go with Shinya Goikeda for the common usage, but if anyone can help me track down the actual romanization of the name that'd be awesome. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 23:54, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Further muddying the waters on the matter, TokyoPop's official site lists the author as "Shinya Goikeda". Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 23:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe the correct romantization is Shinya Goikeda, although it's pronounced Shin-ya. -凶 00:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Cool. I might make mention of the fact that even the novel itself can't get the name right. ;) Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 00:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Tony Redgrave vs. Dante

Alright, for the majority of the first book Dante goes by the alias of "Tony Redgrave". Should I use the name Tony to refer to him for the majority of the Plot summary, or should I make mention of the fact he calls himself Tony in the beginning and then just refer to him as Dante thereafter? I'm currently writing it per the latter but I'd like some suggestions. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 01:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I say no. Add a spoiler tag to the beginning of the summary, and then just say "The story is about Dante, who goes by the name Tony Redgrave for most of the novel...". Remember, in a summary you aren't telling the story, you're explaining it. When you tell a story, you try to immerse the audience in the experience, like it's happening to them -- or at least happening for real while they observe. But that's not what a summary is for, so don't try to recreate that. A summary explains the events and makes no attempt at maintaining the story as an experience, forget about suspension of disbelief, or maintaining illusions, or keeping things fuzzy until the end. For instance, a good Wikipedia summary (IMHO) of the film "The Sixth Sense" would start off, "Bruce Willis plays a ghost who..." --Boradis 02:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, the way I've done this so far is mentioning Tony Redgrave being Dante, but masking Gilver's true identity (Vergil) until it actually happens within the story. I'll clean up the excess wordage tomorrow, though I probably won't need to do too much. It's fairly heavy at 700+ words but I didn't really optimize the text, focusing more on just getting it done. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 04:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I don't know why you're trying to hold the reader in suspense or give them a delayed reveal about Vergil, but OK. There's no reason to do something for dramatic effect. --Boradis 07:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It's less for dramatic effect and more for efficiency. The reveal that Tony Redgrave is Dante is apparent right from the get-go. The novel takes no steps to hide the fact. Gilver being Vergil, on the other hand, is something they hid quite well. It would be wordier and awkward for me to say "Enzo introduces Gilver, who is really Dante's long-lost brother Vergil in disguise." While I've got no problems with spoilers (in fact, I find spoiler tags a bit silly - Why is someone reading a plot summary if they don't want to know what's going on?) I don't really feel the need to go out of my way to reveal things as early in the plot as possible. It'd sort of be like starting the Devil May Cry plot summary with "Devil May Cry begins with Dante being attacked in his office by a mysterious woman named Trish, a demon designed to resemble his mother." Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 13:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary for DMC Volume 1

Alright, I think I've managed to reduce this to a reasonable length while touching on all of the major plot points, taking it from just over 700 words down to 547. I've managed to reduce the plot enough that it's roughly the same length as the DMC2 and DMC3 plot sections. I figure that by the time I've covered a couple notes regarding the differences between DMC Volume 1 and DMC3, that should take the DMC Volume 1 portion of this article to a reasonable length.

Interestingly enough, if TokyoPop and Capcom had altered the storyline in just two spots, it wouldn't necessarily have been irreconcilable with DMC3 at all. Merely dropping the Tony Redgrave alias and the sentence about Dante not seeing Vergil since his mother's death would have allowed this story to mesh perfectly into the overall DMC storyline. I won't put that in the article per WP:SYNTH, but I thought it was interesting, especially given that the novels were released in North America after Devil May Cry 3. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 14:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

actually, funny thing - the anime has his guns engraved with

“For Tony Redgrave By Ali Art Wards”

on both Ebony & Ivory and Luce & Ombra.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 08:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Plot Summary for DMC Volume 2

Okay, I think that's that. At 848 it's most definitely far too long, but I've got a feeling I can reduce it significantly just by reworking a lot of the sentences and trimming out the bloat. Cheers, Lanky ○ Yell ○ 04:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

It's now down to 650 words or so, which is still a touch lengthy but is definitely better than before. I might cut some more later, but for now I'm willing to let this be. Cheers, Lanky ○ Yell ○ 04:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)