Talk:Deaths in September 2019

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Eddie Money COD

The linked reference/article never states a cause of death.

It mentions both the cancer and the upcoming heart surgery, but does not give any verifiable/official/etc. cause of death.

A better reference is needed or the COD needs to be removed. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 02:51, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The cause of death does not need to be verified by the source quoted in the entry. Any source giving a cause of death can be (or should be) referenced in the edit summary when adding such CoD. Money's referencing source for cause of death ("esophageal cancer") would be https://www.newsweek.com/eddie-money-death-cancer-music-1459189, and therefore that reliable reporting means the CoD should stay. Ref ^(chew)(do) 03:29, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If a cause of death is not verified, then there should not be a cause listed like there was when I made my original comment. But if a cause is listed, I strongly think that the reference/citation must verify/support the claim; otherwise baseless facts (i.e., false news) are being put out there as facts. 2600:8800:784:8F00:C23F:D5FF:FEC4:D51D (talk) 02:00, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. If you quote another obit source in your edit summary when adding a CoD, then the addition of that cause is supported by that link in the summary! It's been done properly that way for years. Ref ^(chew)(do) 19:24, 16 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hunting down a matching summary to a dubious alteration isn't very user-friendly. Best to cover the whole line with a decent in-line source. Is entertainment reporter Janice Williams a decent source for determining a cause of death without attributing her opinion, or is she just swayed by the TV storyline her story's essentially about? Tough call. But if you trust her enough for a summary citation, may as well go full footnote for casual browsers. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:15, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A representative of Money's told People (per Blabbermouth et al) that the heart surgery was the killer, never the cancer. Seems this newer news is news we should use. I can't paste though, somebody else might Google it. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:39, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"He said/she said" shenanigans are never preferable to a straight-up statement from a usually reliable source, though. Except when verified family members are stating an opposite cause. Ref ^(chew)(do) 11:57, 17 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's not shenanigans. It's just his publicist publicizing his cause of death. A Maria Pasquini citing an actual source (in the news sense) should beat a Janice Williams with a vested interest in giving her story about the TV show a timely hook. Have we actually trusted her before, or do you mean Newsweek by "usually reliable source"? TMZ cites a "source close to Eddie" for the heart problem. Maybe that's two people, maybe the same, but still more than zero. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:11, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "shenanigans" also reflected the IP's absolute insistence that the source which proves the cause had to be the one used inline - whereas, you know well, that's not always the case here. As I said above, quoting the source link in the edit summary is a perfectly valid way of introducing a CoD. That's all. In the case of Money, I'm not particularly bothered whether it's esophageal cancer or heart surgery that did the deed - just that the nit-picking over cast-iron display of sources stops. Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:21, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The old valid way is fine for uncontroversial claims, but once a feather's ruffled or shenanigans are suspected, best to cite the immediately uncited bit. Valid old WP:V. Nice and standard-like then, that's all I want. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:50, 19 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hitoshi Nozaki

Is there a better citation than the one given for the death of Hitoshi Nozaki? A rough translation just says "On September 25, 2000, one member of Nozaki (5th division, Department of Synthetic Organic Chemistry and Organometallic Chemistry) passed away. I pray for your happiness." Snickers2686 (talk) 22:25, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not so far. Also tagged as a "bare footnote", which it is. Ref ^(chew)(do) 03:27, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This may be a better source, https://www.dead-people.com/Hitoshi-Nozaki, but it's a different date. Editrite! (talk) 21:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

dead-people is on par with famousbirthdays, which is to say, not at all reliable. The better source tag has been removed, and I happen to agree with the reasoning, considering the website is that of the Japan Academy. Vycl1994 (talk) 23:56, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, absolutely not reliable. 'dead-people' is a bot-generated project connected to Facebook, so by that standard is not reliable at all. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:50, 7 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a direct quote from CAWylie, "Deaths in 2019 considers him alive, without a reputable verifiable death source", despite the fact that the September death listing still appears. Discuss. Editrite! (talk) 00:52, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, obviously then, given the above comments, he is dead to the English Deaths in September 2019, as the consensus seems to be that the spurious and sparse Japan Academy reference is solid (I still don't think it is myself, my tag was removed however). Although his English, Farsi, Azerbaijani and Tamil articles say he is not dead, his German and Japanese articles say he is. I think I'll leave my involvement on this after those few observations! Ref ^(chew)(do) 06:16, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If we're sticking with the japan-acad source, his page now sources his death, which was initially dated with the date reported (Oct 5, obviously incorrect). — Wylie pedia @ 07:41, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to be no "if", as both Wikis accepting his death have accepted that flimsy couple of lines (which don't even mention the whole of his assumed name, nor his birth name!). However, I said I'd shut up about this. Ref ^(chew)(do) 14:13, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This reply isn't meant to drag anyone back into discussion, but just to stress that machine translation is not the most accurate. I read some Chinese, on which kanji is partially based. I think a better translation would be: "On Reiwa 1 September 25, Hitoshi Nozaki, member of 5th division Department of Synthetic Organic Chemistry and Organometallic Chemistry has passed away." In kanji, Nozaki's family name is written 野崎, and his given name is 一, which can be translated into Chinese as a standalone character for the number one. Nozaki's full name and date of death is in fact in this source from a reputable website and should be retained.Vycl1994 (talk) 18:57, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think discussion has to follow for anyone who has reservations about the quality of this source. Carry on! Ref ^(chew)(do) 21:20, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Leah Bracknell

How was September 29 decided as her day of death? I don't see it listed in the link that was sourced and the articles I find all just say "in September". Thanks. BurienBomber (talk) 20:18, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looking into her page history an IP just added the day without a source. Whoever moved her must’ve based it off that. Rusted AutoParts 20:21, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]