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Archive 1

Seriously Wikipedia??? HES NOT DEAD

You put his date of death on here???? HES NOT DEAD! You don’t know anything about this! How dare you. Shame on you. I’m so flipping mad right now, unbelievable. 70.94.110.4 (talk) 02:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is free to edit, including by unregistered users and internet trolls. Those edits made claiming his death were undone in seconds. This is unfortunately the price of having a free, collaborative encyclopedia — sometimes people get it wrong. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 02:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

Injury needs date needs to be updated to 2023 not 2022 2600:1015:B004:F147:EC33:4391:8196:1934 (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done CJ-Moki (talk) 02:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

The date in the following section should read January 2, 2023:

Monday Night Football collapse On January 2, 2022, during a Week 17 game against the Cincinnati Bengals on Monday Night Football, Hamlin made a tackle on wide receiver Tee Higgins who was charging into him. After the tackle, Hamlin got to his feet and then crumpled to the ground. A stretcher and ambulance came onto the field as most of the rosters on both teams came off the sideline to kneel or stand around Hamlin. First responders administered CPR to Hamlin on the field. He was transported to University of Cincinnati Academic Health Center.[13] 47.222.153.218 (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done CJ-Moki (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

The year is 2023, not 2022z

If you are going to report “facts”, please make sure they are correct. This is a problem with Wikipedia. 73.213.114.122 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Someone

Someone Edit what just happened wrong. They put the date as 2022 it’s actually 2023 Tristany87 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)

Should be on January 2nd, not in… 2607:FEA8:8424:B300:C077:D791:AB27:FC8C (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)

January 2, 2022 should be corrected to January 2, 2023 under the Monday Night Football game 208.98.223.50 (talk) 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done CJ-Moki (talk) 02:39, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (3)

Change date of the recent injury from January 2022 to January 2023, and change reference in article in footnote 13 from 3 January to 2 January. 172.6.53.222 (talk) 02:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Poor taste

WP:NOTCENSORED
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

THE FACT YOU PUT ALREADY THAT DAMAR HAMLIN NEEDED CPR ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL as a fact about this young man IS FUCKING DISGUSTING … it’s been 52 minutes since that incident and you already got that stat … SHOULD BE FUCKING EMBARRASSED!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:9880:1f48:66:e0ed:8c78:5d96:5495 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

See WP:NOTCENSORED. CJ-Moki (talk) 02:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

He's on oxygen

He's also on oxygen 2600:1009:B12E:95D7:5CD5:AFF:FE20:B926 (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Source? ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/03/bengals-bills-game-suspended-bills-damar-hamlin-critical-condition/ Cyclonicpot (talk) 03:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Removed "see also" section

The addition of the "see also" section that references an NBA player who died following a game is too soon. This man is not dead, to our knowledge, and it's simply inappropriate to make that comparison at this time. Re-adding it and complaining that it was "unexplained" ... it needs no explanation. I will continue to remove that section if it is re-added. Duckpasta (talk) 02:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Support - I also agree that it may make sense in the future to add in a "See also" to refer to a player who passed away on the court/field. But right now is not the right time for it. - Fuzheado | Talk 02:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
+1 ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Wholeheartedly agreed. Keeping that in implies something not supported in any reliable sources. Not the time. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 02:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Supporting removal per all the points above. --Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 02:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Support removal for reasons stated above. Planetberaure (talk) 03:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

As of recent…

As of recent, Hamlin is apparently in critical condition (source: statement from the NFL) and the game has been postponed. Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:18, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

@Yourfavcarl The article's text seems to agree. ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we add the details of how long he was down and state the time of the collapse? Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

- On the ESPN broadcast, they’ve said that we should have an update soon. Hopefully within the hour. Yourfavcarl (talk) 03:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Damar in hospital

Damar has been sent to a Cincinnati hospital after tackling Tee Higgins vs the Bills at 5:58 in the first quarter 2600:1004:B17D:6E5B:698B:D7AC:8EC8:EF12 (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

That information is currently included in the article. - Fuzheado | Talk 04:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

I want to add on to the monday night football collapse Goalieiplay (talk) 04:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

What would you like to add? Mackensen (talk) 04:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Feel free to propose specific changes (with sources if appropriate). ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023

DONE
All information related to cardiac arrest have been integrated - in the lede section and the detailed section.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


No change just what happened. It was confirmed that he had a cardiac arrest. While his heart was restored on the field, he was transported to the University of Cincinati Medical Center. He was listed as in critical condition and continues as such for now. 2603:6011:8C00:21AD:CA9:5A76:EDED:B8DA (talk) 07:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CJ-Moki (talk) 08:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Cardiac arrest has been addded as the Bills official Twitter account verified this [1] - Fuzheado | Talk 14:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)

DONE
Lebron James reaction has subsequently been removed.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This statement doesn't fit unless Lebron James has some ties to Damar Hamlin or the Bills. Numerous people from the NFL community voiced their support.

"Basketball player LeBron James voiced his support for the NFL's decision to postpone the game." 98.27.220.28 (talk) 15:04, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lemonaka (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
 Done The Lebron James reaction has subsequently been removed as not particularly relevant. General Ization Talk 17:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

College career

DONE
Info added.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Hamlin graduated with a bachelor's degree in communication from the University of Pittsburgh.[1]

  1. ^ "Buffalo Bills' Bio" (PDF). NFL. Retrieved January 4, 2023.

Swaggon (talk) 08:31, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Added using this source. [2] - Fuzheado | Talk 14:24, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Career Information

DONE
Changed to University of Pittsburgh.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


I can't figure out how to change the wording in the table of the sidebar, but "Pittsburgh" should be changed to "Univ. of Pittsburgh" or "University of Pittsburgh"

Readers unfamiliar with the institution might not understand the nickname Pitt or just Pittsburgh - don't want them to think it's a community college! Swaggon (talk) 08:40, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Good catch. Just as in the lede paragraph, Pittsburgh has been expanded to University of Pittsburgh and we should consider it a best practice to use the full name on first reference so that it is friendlier for a wider audience. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:10, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2023 (2)

DONE
Updated to $6 million with source.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


The total for Hamlin’s GoFundMe is now over $6 million as of today, 01/04/2023. 2600:6C5E:5D3F:ADF9:3999:8908:372B:A72D (talk) 16:36, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 Done - Added with source. Fuzheado | Talk 18:37, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2023

I would like to edit on what happened to him on January 2nd 2023. 72.190.143.235 (talk) 02:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. LilianaUwU (talk / contribs) 02:46, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Most watched Monday Night Football telecast ever

DONE
Information added to summary

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/04/media/monday-night-football-ratings-espn-damar-hamlin Feel like it's notable that the broadcast was the most watched in MNF's 52 year history, having 21 million viewers prior to the injury and 23.9 million after.--Newtothisedit (talk) 14:02, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Information added to summary. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:43, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 January 2023

In the RECOVERY section, doctor's name should be updated from "PITTS" to "PRITTS" (after "you have won the game of life" quote at endnote 52). 98.223.186.36 (talk) 01:00, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Looks like it was fixed in this edit. Thank you for submitting the request.  :) --Super Goku V (talk) 05:48, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 January 2023 (2)

2603:6080:FD02:8655:2C8F:E22A:B327:37AC (talk) 23:24, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Charity is at 7.5million dollars

Needs to be changed

 Partly done No source for being at $7.5 million, but I did find one for almost $7.5 million. If you have one that says over $7.5 million, then please post it here. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:51, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Stale
 – Figure has been updated to the newer figure of $8 million.

- Fuzheado | Talk 05:12, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Requesting update on number of resuscitations

DONE
Mention of double resuscitation removed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


ESPN's Coley Harvey spoke to Damar's family and PR manager who clarified that Hamlin was only resuscitated once, on the field. https://twitter.com/ColeyHarvey/status/1610644029351288833?s=20&t=VOlXy0iPFTN8JabM2FFsXg Awhalen0601 (talk) 19:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Me again! Guess I was too quick on the gun :-) Agree with above and heres a citation I have so far: FOX: https://www.foxnews.com/sports/bills-damar-hamlin-shown-signs-improvement-still-critical-condition-team-says (Paragraph 5) 2601:442:4400:A14:60D2:7FA2:78D7:DBA5 (talk) 22:22, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
It did come from a source close to Hamlin. Just a misunderstanding in the end. (Additional sources if needed: Snopes Today CNN) --Super Goku V (talk) 23:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
 Done - Removed the mention of double aresuscitation. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (3)

The article mentions how the Bengals stadium lights were lit blue after the incident on January 2nd, but omits that that Niagara falls in Buffalo was lit blue as well. 96.230.249.71 (talk) 19:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. General Ization Talk 19:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
This is a misunderstanding. Per SI, Jim Diodati, mayor of the Ontario, Canada city and home of the eponymous landmark, declared that the falls will be illuminated in Buffalo's trademark color of blue in support of Hamlin on Tuesday night. The falls have not been lit blue yet. --Super Goku V (talk) 19:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Please resolve edit conflicts properly

There's a lot of fast editing happening, so please do resolve edit conflicts properly Fantboy3 and others. I had to revert to a previous version and had to unfortunately squash some intermediate edits by Pennsylvania2 (apologies) before the new revisions started to drift too far. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Article layout

I don't think it makes sense for this article to include the draft pre-measurables table in the middle of prose. This breaks the flow of the article and on desktop at least inserts a lot of whitespace. I think it's better with the rest of the statistics. Yes, many other NFL player articles do it the current way. I'll happily raise this on the NFL wikiproject at the appropriate time. We should write for our readers. Mackensen (talk) 03:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Post-incident, add a drop-down section about the incident

Support: with the current news coverage of the incident, it is clearly(currently at least) a main reason for people to visit the page. Support: Afterwards, assuming that if the incident spawns something more, such as rule-changes or something else. It would be helpful to have a section on this page detailing the incident. If it ends up not causing rule-changes and/or not having any other major effects, then it is fine with just being a lede and/or section of his NFL career section This should only be considered post-incident for the same reasons as the discussion about making the incident a separate page, but I thought I would put it out there 73.45.101.72 (talk) 05:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by having a "drop-down section", but I believe that the rest has been done. We currently have a mention in the lede about the incident and a section about the incident. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
On the mobile version of Wikipedia, only the highest section levels get drop-down things that readers can tap on. I think that is what the IP means. Maine 🦞 06:12, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Gotcha. Then if that is the case, we are also doing that right now. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
We're currently doing that for "professional career", but we don't have a separate one for the incident itself. Maine 🦞 06:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Super Goku V: Could lift game-related medical stuff up a level out of pro career entirely, methinks: [3] 166.198.252.102 (talk) 07:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Possibly, but I will hold off for now until things have settled. Perhaps we should wait until the number of edits is under one per day. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:02, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2023 (2)

According to Jordan Rooney, a marketing rep. and close friend of Hamlin's took to twitter at 9:31 PM to provide an update on Damar. "Update on Damar: His vitals are back to normal and they have put him to sleep to put a breathing tube down his throat. They are currently running tests. We will provide updates as we have them."

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-damar-hamlin-injury-critical-condition-cincinnati-bengals-breathing-tube

https://twitter.com/jordonr/status/1610116502845558784?s=20&t=kyzyjfIUXUr61SQcuaHt1A 66.115.210.70 (talk) 05:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: Nothing here that is not already adequately discussed in the article, especially given that the source is a tweet. General Ization Talk 06:17, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Agree with General Ization - I also looked into that last evening and Jordon Rooney (who claims to be a friend of Hamlin, CEO of Jaster Athletes, and representing Hamlin as a sports marketer) and his relationship seems valid, but that is WP:OR. Without a reliable source confirming the relationship and repeating that news, it cannot be relied upon. Additionally, the comment from Hamlin's agent (or lack thereof) does not support the "vitals are back to normal" report. [4] Best to leave it out. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:09, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Lead

I tend to think that the collapse should be mentioned in the lede. It's the most notable thing about Damar Hamlin *right now*, it's a significant part of the article, and if it's not mentioned people will keep trying to add it. Mackensen (talk) 03:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Support Hamlin's collapse has received substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources. CJ-Moki (talk) 03:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
It is now the full second paragraph of the article. It was removed for a while but deserves to be up high on the page. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Agree. Readers will expect to find info ASAP. ---Another Believer (Talk) 03:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Support per Mackensen's reasoning PizzaKing13 ¡Hablame! 03:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Support at least for now; it is the entire reason the article is a recent event being updated, after all. It can be removed or updated later as the situation changes. Camwoodstock (talk) 03:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I would support it as long as it continues to be a brief sentence as it is in the current revision. We want to balance avoiding recentism while still providing an indication of why this is a high visibility person right now. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 03:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Support - Obviously very notable at this time, and as other comments have stated, it should be a brief sentence and probably shouldn't be a whole paragraph. Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 03:56, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Support - after reading the reasons here, i agree on the condition that cymru.lass mentioned. i initially removed it from the lede since it would lean towards recentism; but since hamlin is receiving extensive coverage on one notable incident, i believe readers would benefit from having it in the lede for now. Ayyydoc (talk) 06:26, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Support it is the most discussed issue right now and is getting the most coverage CommotioCordis (talk) 16:56, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Toy drive campaign

I think we can add a ref there: https://twitter.com/gofundme/status/1610116959185817601 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elendal (talk • contribs) 06:10, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I am not seeing information from that tweet that could be used in the article. Could you clarify, Elendal? --Super Goku V (talk) 19:42, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Clarity

In the personal life section, there is no clarity whatsoever about why there was a mass influx of money being donated. Should we fix that? Yourfavcarl (talk) 19:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

The section states "Shortly after his in-game collapse ...". I think the reader can accurately infer that the influx of money was a reaction to the collapse, and I don't think we can do more than infer this, without questioning the thousands of people who donated (which we will not do). General Ization Talk 19:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Yourfavcarl and General Ization: Well, I don't think we need to worry about that given that a number of donations make clear that it is in relation to what happened. From ESPN: "On average, about 2.5 donations were being made every second in that initial 17-hour span. Many came with messages of hope for a 24-year-old player in his second season, sedated in a Cincinnati hospital, listed in critical condition." From NBC: "Many fans included messages of support and wishes for Hamlin's good health alongside their donations." However, I am unsure of how to word the section to add additional clarity. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Correction of year

When it talks about him going into cardiac arrest, it says in 2022 instead of 2023. "During his second season in 2022, Hamlin collapsed and went into cardiac arrest after delivering a tackle" PacificOreo (talk) 21:45, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It's the 2022 NFL season, even though the actual year is 2023. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:47, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
There was an edit conflict, but I did make this adjustment. Would this be better? --Super Goku V (talk) 21:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Can I ask why "He is currently in his second season with the Bills" is needed at all in the first graf? - Fuzheado | Talk 22:01, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
For clarification. My intended edit was also going to change the beginning of the second paragraph, but then you made changes to it first that I abandoned. If anyone think that things are clear enough without it, then it should be removed. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I obviated the need for clarification by reverting to the original second paragraph which was much better. Special:Diff/1131373862 The one quoted above does not even say that the collapse happened during a regular season NFL game, making it less useful than before. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Claim of "hard" tackle

The article currently says "Hamlin made a hard tackle", but calling that tackle "hard" is an exaggeration I doubt any reputable commentator would agree with, and was not commonly reported. The tackle looked routine. The characterization "hard" makes it sound like a completely different event than what seemed to have occurred in reality. 70.124.173.83 (talk) 04:04, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

This is how the New York Times describes it: Higgins rammed into Hamlin at full speed, appearing to hit him in the head and chest area. [5]. Mackensen (talk) 04:07, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Agreed. 136.56.24.23 (talk) 04:07, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Los Angeles Times described it as "jarring" [6] as did Rochester Democrat & Chronicle [7]. Therefore, I don't think "hard" is out of the question. That said, I changed the wording to jarring in the prose to reflect that. - Fuzheado | Talk 04:12, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Well, just about every tackle is "jarring" by that measure. But that's better than "hard". Yes, it was high speed, but a bit of a glancing hit not a "hard" hit. But the fact that it was an impact from the offensive player to the chest of Hamlin appears to have been of critical importance, and is worth at least mentioning. Saying Hamlin tackled the offensive player is a bit misleading. If anything, Hamlin was the one being run over. 70.124.173.83 (talk) 04:16, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
That is your opinion and your own original research. We go with what reliable sources say. - Fuzheado | Talk 04:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I mean he's not wrong. It probably goes on the books as a tackle, but that doesn't really convey to the reader what happened. This is how The Athletic describes it: Hamlin, 24, went down after making a tackle on Cincinnati’s Tee Higgins with 5:58 remaining in the first quarter. He got up and took a few steps after making the hit before collapsing. [8]. Here's ESPN: The injury took place after Hamlin tackled wide receiver Tee Higgins and quickly got up afterward. [9]. Mackensen (talk) 04:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The NY Times quote agrees with me though. It says "Higgins rammed into Hamlin", not "Hamlin tackled Higgins". By NFL rules, yes, Hamlin would be credited with the tackle, but it's a misleading way to describe the physical impact. 70.124.173.83 (talk) 04:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the point being made is. It's not an either/or situation with the two statements – Hamlin can tackle Higgins while at the same time Higgins can be ramming into Hamlin. Hamlin was clearly the first Bills player to engage Higgins and was the cause of that receiver to go down. Consider the sources that say, "Hamlin made a jarring tackle on Cincinnati’s Tee Higgins." [10], and "Hamlin, 24, climbed to his feet after making a jarring but routine tackle of receiver Tee Higgins." [11] Unless I'm missing something, I don't see a contradiction that would require a major change in the article. - Fuzheado | Talk 04:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The tackle was jarring because of the aftermath, not because the tackle itself was all that special. We don't need to include emotional language. Maine 🦞 05:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
It's not emotional language - it's directly quoted from straight news pieces from reputable news organizations. I find this odd considering you incorrectly put "cardiac arrest" into the WP:ITN nomination when that phrase is completely unsupported by any sources. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
There are certain words that are inherently emotional language. These include words like "happy", "sad", "terrifying", "disgusting", and many others. While news organizations might editorialize to spice things up a bit, that doesn't mean much. And frankly I don't see why the ITN nomination is related to this question at all. Maine 🦞 05:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I want to preface by saying I hope to improve the page. The "jarring nature of the contact" seems a little extraneous.
Was the contact routine or was it jarring? If it was jarring, then it was not a routine play. If it was routine, then it could not be considered jarring, which is a non-routine type of contact on a play. You can't be jarring and routine (I guess it could be both but then say every play is jarring). 209.6.175.150 (talk) 00:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Since there still seems to be some disagreement, should we be using the word "jarring" to describe what happened? --Super Goku V (talk) 05:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Not sure if this is a call for a vote, but I'm in Support, personally. There's nothing particularly wrong about the descriptor, and it is cited as having been used elsewhere before Wikipedia used it. Camwoodstock (talk) 05:09, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The wording needs to reflect that it wasn't necessarily Hamlin he made the jarring hit. My issue is more wording it like that. The instant replay clearly shows Tee Higgins lowering his shoulder which then hits Hamlin right in his heart.--Rockchalk717 05:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
If you can provide reliable sources that say this, then we can discuss. Otherwise, it's WP:OR. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
If people want to vote, then I am okay with that. I just noticed that there seemed to be a disagreement in the edit history and figured it was something that we need to discuss and make a consensus on. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Please keep WP:NOTAVOTE in mind. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:16, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
As I said, I figured it was something that we need to discuss and make a consensus on. If you don't want a vote, then that is fine too. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:24, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I've provided two reliable sources for the term "jarring" - a national newspaper in the L.A. Times and a local New York paper - that provide important context and detail. The anon has related a personal perspective that should not negate what reputable news sources have said. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:14, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Ah, I was too vague, sorry. The disagreement was the one in the edit history. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:16, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Well, plenty of sources don't describe the tackle/collision that way. The Athletic doesn't. The Buffalo News doesn't either: [12]. The language feels inadequate, and the anon isn't alone in thinking so. Mackensen (talk) 05:18, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Ugh I hate that you're right about it being OR. I have such a love/hate relationship with that policy. The replay does definitely show what I said but I'm struggling to find sources other than some tweets from a couple doctors that say that.--Rockchalk717 05:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Just because a source describes the contact as an unelaborated "tackle" does not make it proof positive that it is the final say about its severity or magnitude of the physical contact. What was the priority of the writer of the piece? Were they focusing on the cause, or the aftermath? Were they experienced sports reporters to know what constituted a typical tackle? It's important to note that limits of interpreting (or overinterpreting) what we see even in WP:RS. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I've rewritten the text to simply say that Hamlin collapsed after tackling Higgins. All the sources agree on that. Mackensen (talk) 05:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I wish you would engage constructive discussion here before eliminating well sourced content. It's really not acting in good faith. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I think @Mackensen improved the article. Maine 🦞 05:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Fuzheado if you think it's a bad change then take it out. I thought it was clear that most editors weren't happy with the present wording so I made a change. Mackensen (talk) 05:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
We can't keep content in an article that most editors disagree with just because it's sourced. Per WP:ONUS, just because it's sourced doesn't mean it should be in the article.--Rockchalk717 05:41, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I appreciate the willingness to have it re-added. I'll think about how it might be incorporated in a way that gives it more context. At the same time, it's hard to conclude that "most editors" weren't happy with the wording when going just by this limited exchange. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Well, we discuss with the editors that we have. Per your comments above about sources, the quandary is which sources to privilege. Several sources describe the hit as "jarring", but many more don't. Why or why not? Who do you privilege in a discussion like that? It's also too early to know whether the relative violence of the hit had anything to do with Hamlin's injury. As you've noted (and I agree), the nature of that injury can't be established in reliable sources.
As an aside, jarring is a weird word to use. Jarring to whom? Higgins? Hamlin? He collapsed almost immediately, and we don't know why yet, but he bounced right up beforehand. A jarring hit implies people stayed on the ground, or went into the concussion protocol, or something other than the present situation. Mackensen (talk) 05:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
If I am being included as one of those editors, then I wish it to be made clear that I am neutral on the wording. I just wanted a consensus. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:56, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks - the current text "after tackling wide receiver Tee Higgins who rammed into him" is now an accurate description of the football play. 70.124.173.83 (talk) 14:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Most recent public status

He has a pulse, but he isn’t breathing. He had CPR and AED. He is in the hospital as we speak. 2600:6C67:217F:CA6F:F88E:6284:7C7F:15EC (talk) 02:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, this is other than the first sentence, the content already mentioned in the article. Thanks, Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 02:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
We can only add what is verified in reliable sources. For now, we do not have that. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/03/bengals-bills-game-suspended-bills-damar-hamlin-critical-condition? Cyclonicpot (talk) 03:07, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
One single reporter's tweet, without an NFL or team announcement, cannot be considered reliable. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
This is literally Fox19's reporter on the ground. Are you saying Fox19 is not a reliable source, even though it is a good news organization? Maine 🦞 05:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Damar Hamlin did suffer cardiac arrest but seems to be improving and went from 100% O2 to 50% O2 as of 6:09 PM EST. https://www.ksnt.com/sports/damar-hamlin-improving-after-collapsing-going-into-cardiac-arrest/ 209.6.175.150 (talk) 00:30, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Fox Sports is probably good. Fox politics is a total joke (and not a good one). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.64.20.12 (talk) 08:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Can’t understand these discussions. Wikipedia should not strive to be first with the facts, but the most accurate with the facts. Give it a rest, people! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.192.29 (talk • contribs) 04:23, January 3, 2023 (UTC)

Photo of incident

I was at the game and took multiple photos of the incident. Do you think it would be appropriate, considering the nature of the incident, to release them into the public domain on Commons to be placed in this article? I'm not sure if there's policy in play for something like this. schetm (talk) 19:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

If you have images of good quality, I would encourage you to upload them to Wikimedia Commons. Either CC0 or CC-BY-SA would be good choices for licensing. - Fuzheado | Talk 19:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Schetm: Re: your caption of the photo you added, if you are going to identify "The Buffalo Bills, in white", I can't think of any reason you should not also identify "the Cincinnati Bengals, in blue" who were doing the same. Also, I would avoid the inference that everyone was kneeling in prayer; some were standing, and not all may be compelled to prayer, but all were there to support Hamlin. General Ization Talk 19:42, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
If you want to change it, you can change it. What I have written, I have written. schetm (talk) 19:57, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Thanks. Have done. General Ization Talk 20:09, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Schetm: OK (re: your reversion), that's why I gave you the opportunity to address the fact that members of both teams were on the field in support of Hamlin in the way you saw fit. General Ization Talk 20:12, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Nevermind; I assume you are saying I was mistaken (certainly about the Bengals being in blue, but also that they participated in the on-field display of support for Hamlin). That would probably have been a fine response to my comment above, and saved us both time and trouble. General Ization Talk 20:18, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
In this picture, were the Bengals kneeling in support? You were incorrect on two counts, and incorrect information cannot stand on Wikipedia. schetm (talk) 20:29, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Apparently I was, and I never claimed my edit should remain. My point was only that a quick reply here to address my misapprehension would have been as easy or easier for both of us. General Ization Talk 20:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I think I was conflating events: our article currently says He was then placed on a stretcher as most of the players from both teams came off the sidelines to kneel or stand around Hamlin, but apparently this is not the moment you captured in your image. General Ization Talk 22:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The Bengals were wearing black (the people in blue are members of the Bills support staff) and in the image in the article most bengals players are standing. Newtothisedit (talk) 04:30, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Early life and education

Born to Mario and Nina Hamlin, Damar Hamlin was raised in McKees Rocks, Pennsylvania and has a younger brother.[1] He attended Central Catholic High School in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He was named first-team All-State and the Class AAAA Defensive Player of the Year.

  1. ^ "Buffalo Bills' Bio" (PDF). NFL. Retrieved January 4, 2023.

Swaggon (talk) 08:21, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Clarification within the collapse incident

DONE
Added comments and info from his uncle, using multiple sources.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Hello! Just noticed a ESPN article which stated Hamlin was also administered an AED shock upon arrival at the hospital, also on FOX19. This was given by the uncle in a interview recently.[1] If it made it in already then apologies for the redundancy! 2601:442:4400:A14:CE:11A5:E4C:E320 (talk) 05:49, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I've added the info from his uncle. Not sure we have a reliable medical professional source for the "died twice" portion, so I've left that out for now. - Fuzheado | Talk 06:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
I have now added "Hamlin had to be resuscitated twice the night of the incident" using a reliable source of CNN. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:28, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mike Brown's tweet

Consider incorporating all or part of Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown's tweet into the Reactions section. General Ization Talk 19:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/Bengals/status/1610323917255630848

Based on the above section, I am not sure what reactions should be included or excluded. We seem to be excluding other athletes not on either team, but we have not included the reactions from non-athletes so far. We have noted the join action by all teams to change their Twitter profile picture, though. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:48, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I was suggesting that Mike Brown's reaction (using the Bengals' official Twitter account) is relevant because he owns the team the Bills and Hamlin were there to play last night (also because I thought it went beyond the expected expressions of concern, wishes for recovery, etc., etc.). General Ization Talk 22:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Ah, gotcha. Then I would say that it is fine to add. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:57, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

More non-NFL reaction

To add, if non-athlete reactions are eventually accepted, the Ohio governor asking for a moment of silence seems notable. Associated Press, only available as video with caption:
https://apnews.com/article/videos-d7fad4189b01410eb74752bd97f132dd or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv7p4nSyvTs
Mapsax (talk) 01:39, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Hamlin’s Daily Hospital Events Are Not Encyclopedia Material

Day-by-day updates regarding Hamlin’s hospital stay (eg Hamlin was placed on his stomach today ) do not belong in an encyclopedia. After we learn the outcome of Hamlin’s hospital stay, a hospital course summary listing turning points would be appropriate to include. However, moment by moment facts of undetermined significance belong on a news website’s live feed— not Wikipedia. 2600:387:A:19:0:0:0:B0 (talk) 05:07, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

If you examine other articles in Wikipedia, you'll notice "day-by-day updates" are common and encouraged as long as they are relevant and stay within the guidelines of WP:UNDUE, WP:NOTGOSSIP and WP:BLP. Since there is widespread interest in this rare critical in-game injury to Hamlin, having frequent updates to this article is appropriate and constitutes one of the main reasons people find Wikipedia's summarization of multiple sources in one article so useful. (This page has been the top viewed English Wikipedia article for the last two days by an overwhelming margin. [13] [14]) - Fuzheado | Talk 09:07, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

"The source does not state that"

@General Ization Your incorrect edit note https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Damar_Hamlin&diff=1131233345&oldid=1131233204 says that the source does not say that he is not breathing under his own power, but a news article https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/03/bengals-bills-game-suspended-bills-damar-hamlin-critical-condition/ says that "Hamlin regained a pulse but is not breathing on his own, according to FOX19′s Joe Danneman. He required an automated external defibrillator on the field."


Why are you deleting this? Maine 🦞 05:20, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I did see belatedly that the source you cited (which is now more than 3 hours old) stated that he was not breathing. However, please stop trying to force content into the article stating that Hamlin isn't or wasn't breathing. He was intubated on the field and is most likely still intubated; this implies that he was unable to breath naturally, and being in critical condition implies life support. General Ization Talk 05:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Please revert yourself; you are edit warring. Maine 🦞 05:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
No, actually, I'm not. General Ization Talk 05:27, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Yes, you are. You made more than three reverts in 24 hours. These include:
That's four reverts, buddy. Maine 🦞 05:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Not going to use this very active Talk page to debate this with you. The first edit you list did not do what you think it did. General Ization Talk 05:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Well, that first one was because you reverted a whole bunch of other changes. I would have reverted you if he hadn't. That's not revert-warring, and listing it in this way doesn't reflect well on you. Mackensen (talk) 05:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
And USA Today is also reporting that he isn't breathing on his own... https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2023/01/02/nfl-hits-all-time-low-player-safety-damar-hamlin/ Maine 🦞 06:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
That is not reporting. It is an opinion column by that one author that is relating the hearsay anecdote about Hamlin's breathing. See WP:RSEDITORIAL: "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (invited op-eds and letters to the editor from notable figures) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." - Fuzheado | Talk 06:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
As mentioned before, the FOX19 source you are providing is but *one* reporter's dispatch from a tweet. There has been no other information that corroborates this from NFL or team sources. Therefore, I would not consider it verifiable or high quality enough for inclusion. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:36, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
You don't consider the FOX19 reporter's own reporting, as reported by FOX19, as verifiable? Maine 🦞 05:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
That is most certainly not an edit war, but if you feel it is, feel free to report it at WP:AN/3, but it's highly unlikely anything will be done.--Rockchalk717 05:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I do not consider that reporter's utterance (without any sourcing or verification from the NFL, Buffalo Bills organization, family, agent, medical professionals, or first-hand witnesses) reliable. This is pretty standard stuff for Wikipedia to require multiple reliable reports before putting BLP-related content into an article as fact. Since it seems you're pretty new to editing Wikipedia, I hope you'll take the time to learn this. - Fuzheado | Talk 05:58, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I agree with @Fuzheado and @Rockchalk717. It's WP:UNDUE until other sources report and corroborate it. Mackensen (talk) 06:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
This isn't a matter of "fairly represent(ing) all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources". The fact that something happened is not a viewpoint, but a fact. Maine 🦞 06:01, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
That's exactly the point that was made above - it cannot yet be accepted as fact if we don't have corroborating info for that one Twitter utterance. WP:BLPREMOVE may be instructive here. - Fuzheado | Talk 06:32, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
You are misrepresenting the reporting of a news reporter for his own news organization as being "one Twitter utterance" and claiming without evidence that the reported is not a firsthand witness. My oh my that is a lot of assumption. Maine 🦞 06:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Also, if you actually watch the video broadcast, it ain't just a mere Twitter utterance. Please don't misrepresent sources like this. https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/03/bengals-bills-game-suspended-bills-damar-hamlin-critical-condition/ Maine 🦞 06:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
To complete this circle - it is not misrepresenting sources. It is avoiding the over-representing the validity of questionable sources, which is what WP:RS guards against. - Fuzheado | Talk 19:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

The source does not seem to say Hamlin was "intubated on the field". Jack N. Stock (talk) 06:23, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

It seems most reliable sources are saying he was intubated at the hospital and not specifically on the field. - Fuzheado | Talk 06:33, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The wording needs to be changed to clarify this. Current wording is misleading as readers assume chronological order of events. Jack N. Stock (talk) 13:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
I tried rewording it so it no longer links intubation with on-field response. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Does someone have a reliable, recent source that lays out the timeline, including the intubation? Mackensen (talk) 13:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
The best I can find for a timeline is the one being published by NBC's Julia Elbaba through regional stations Chicago and Dallas–Fort Worth. Nothing about the intubation time, though. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
@Mackensen: I have done another search and found some more timelines. Here is the rough layout, using these sources (a, a2, b, c): At 8:55pm (a, a2, c) or 8:56pm (b), Hamlin was injured. At 9:00 p.m. (b), an ambulance was on the field. At 9:08 p.m. (c), ESPN began studio coverage. At 9:12 p.m. (b), the ambulance left the field. At 9:14 p.m. (b), warmups were apparently ongoing. At 9:16 p.m. (a, b), 9:17 p.m. (c), or 9:18 p.m. (a2), the game was suspended. At 9:25 p.m. (a, a2, c), the ambulance left the stadium. At 9:29 p.m. (b), the Bengals HC stood outside the visitors locker room and afterwards was in discussions with the Bills HC and the officials. At 9:30 p.m. (b), the ambulance arrived at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center. At 9:52 p.m. (c), the Bills HC and some players left the visitors locker room. At 10:00 p.m. (b), 10:01 p.m. (a2), or afterwards (a), the game was postponed. --Super Goku V (talk) 09:54, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Does the notoriety of this incident warrant a separate article?

Though the news is still fresh and current information is sparse, I do think that the incident regarding Damar Hamlin gained enough media traction to justify the creation of a separate article in the future. Citing the uniquely tragic circumstances surrounding the event and the potential impact this incident could have on future regulations regarding player safety as further justification. Hopefully this doesn't come off as tone deaf - just wondering. Joeyquism (talk) 05:08, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Far too early to make this decision, nor is the article so large that it is urgent to make it now. General Ization Talk 05:11, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Not yet. As @General Ization notes, the existing article is of manageable length, and at the moment we don't have anything new to say about the incident itself. This will change over time of course. Mackensen (talk) 05:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
If the worst case scenario happens, then yeah it possibly could warrant a separate article and we can discuss it then if that unfortunately happens. But for now, it definitely does not.--Rockchalk717 05:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Not at this time. Concur with others that the volume of information is not sufficient to justify a separate article, and we also don't typically do a split for such situations. Example: Christian_Eriksen#UEFA_Euro_2020_cardiac_arrest - Fuzheado | Talk 05:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
not yet. if hamlin, god forbid, doesn't make a recovery and some landmark rule is borne of this situation—whatever that may entail—then absolutely. you mentioned it yourself: " . . . potential impact this incident could have on future regulations regarding player safety as further justification". i would wait for the potential to be actualized if you know what i mean. :) Ayyydoc (talk) 06:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Not at this time - as all the other commenters have said, the article isn't too long to the point where it should require a split. This and my opinion may, of course, change. --Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 14:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Unfortunately Esolo5002 has created a separate article as of an hour ago: 2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin - Fuzheado | Talk 14:46, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Hi @Esolo5002 can you please explain your rationale, and acknowledge the discussion here? The creation of that article is problematic for a number of reasons as it goes against the guidelines at Wikipedia:Splitting#Procedure. Not only was a discussion not initiated here, nor a notice posted about a proposed split, but the actual copying of the content was not a WP:PROPERSPLIT and does not do proper attribution for licensing. The consensus is quite clear against a separate article. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
You can't veto a new article on the talk page of another. That is what the deletion process is for. Maine 🦞 17:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
You can't veto a new article on the talk page of another. This discussion predates that article being created, and that article is now at AFD too. Both of which are valid processes. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
No, not right now at least Tankpiggy18 (talk) 15:21, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

If anything, the separate article shows that there is enough information to already justify a separate article. --Voyager 1 Low Battery Alert (talk) 15:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

No it doesn't. There's not enough coverage for a sustained article, the fact someone has tried to create an article against a consensus doesn't prove anything, as the consensus still exists. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:09, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Splitting the discussion between two articles, which has now happened, is not desirable. Mackensen (talk) 15:13, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
No, that's not how things work. I see you are a three-day old editor, so while we welcome new folks to contribute, we also would like them to read about our guidelines and policies and understand why copy-paste splits without discussion are problematic from a community consensus and a copyright standpoint. Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 15:15, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I have nominated the separate article for deletion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin. Mackensen (talk) 15:17, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Fuzheado, you are conflating and overreaching: WP:SPLITTING is a Wikipedia "Information" page to help editors do a better split. Splitting is not a "Policy" nor is it a "Guideline" (both of which carry more weight). It is a helper, not dogma or an edict - Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 21:44, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm uninterested in wiki lawyering - that page is the most high-profile and widely accepted documentation of the long-standing community norms when it comes to article splits. Most participants have followed its guidance in the spirit of consensus while others have not. Folks should opt for respecting our best practices for good faith collaboration unless there is a good reason not to. - Fuzheado | Talk 22:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Any content to merge?

I commented twice at the AfD about not finding anything to merge (Special:Diff/1131449019, Special:Diff/1131663273), but I haven't seen anyone point out specific content. The content customary to a Category:National Football League games article is generally not appropriate for a biography. I am also concerned about the anti-vaxxer reaction (a bit of a WP:COATRACK) and conjecture about commotio cordis added in Special:Diff/1131445751. Flatscan (talk) 05:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I did intend to cover the vaccine misinformation here as people have unfortunately been making fraudulent claims that the vaccine somehow caused the injury, but I wasn't able to find a way to word it properly. We do have reliable sources that are reporting on these hoaxes: AP, BBC, Washington Post, The Atlantic, and more. I do want to mention that I have alter the wording of the misinformation and the conjecture from what you have linked. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I added a sentence about the anti-vaxxer sentiments, and think that is all that is needed to give it its WP:DUE. Special:Diff/1131697653 - Fuzheado | Talk 09:40, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
I agree that there is WP:UNDUE weight and too much "ink" given to the conspiracy/right-wing/activists viewpoint in that split-off article, and one sentence here is all it needs. - Fuzheado | Talk 09:41, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I can shorten it to one sentence if that fixes things. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you for your edits! Flatscan (talk) 05:27, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
No problem, happy to help. Thank you for the suggestions.  :) --Super Goku V (talk) 05:50, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Formal request to reconsider the matter

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@Ayyydoc, Fuzheado, General Ization, Harobouri, Joeyquism, Joseph2302, Mackensen, Maine Lobster, Rockchalk717, Tankpiggy18, and Voyager 1 Low Battery Alert: I get that it is a shame that consensus was not followed, but now we have one of the only, if not the only, NFL games that have been cancelled in the regular season. We are way past this being just another game and just another injury. If the problematic article should still be axed, then that is fine, but I am convinced that the current consensus against a standalone article is now more problematic than not. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:18, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Improving Personal Life section

I'd like to see the Personal Life section improved as Hamlin had a difficult upbringing and a strong family life. I don't have the needed edit level, but this article from 2021 goes deep in depth on Hamlin's story and general character. https://www.golongtd.com/p/why-damar-hamlin-is-exactly-what Awhalen0601 (talk) 01:32, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

very valuable article: thank you for putting it here !! Ayyydoc (talk) 01:44, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
i added some of the information, but an editor let me know in my talk page that it may violate some of the guidelines laid out in the "biography of living peoples" section of wikipedia. i should've solicited consensus in this page. thank you nevertheless !! Ayyydoc (talk) 04:42, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
@Ayyydoc: Ah, I should clarify that my concerns were with the wording used, specifically involving Hamlin's father. Some of the stuff might be okay for the article, if you want to propose adding it here. --Super Goku V (talk) 22:56, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
ESPN just published another excellent article on Damar's personal life and I believe the article would benefit from its inclusion https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35385319/damar-hamlin-injury-most-important-part-bills-safety-story Awhalen0601 (talk) 16:05, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Please stop adding Main or Seealso template here

Please stop adding the {{main|2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin}} template (or See also) to this page, for a number of reasons:

  • Acting against consensus. That article (2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin) was created against a clear consensus on this Talk page, showing no consideration for good faith collaboration, and going against best practices described at WP:SPLITTING. Further spreading of this article given the points below is akin to doubling down on bad decisions.
  • AfD listing. Even after being told of this, and with the article being listed at WP:AFD where it is seeing little support, certain editors keep pushing for its exposure on this page, on templates, and other pages around Wikipedia. It is poor practice to link to articles at AfD, especially ones that are clearly trending towards being deleted/merged. Which gets us to the next point.
  • Bad title. As has been pointed out at the AfD, the title of the article 2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin is quite deficient by our naming conventions for titles (see WP:NCEVENTS, WP:NOYEAR, WP:COMMONNAME). We would never include the year on a one-off unique occurrence to an individual. The only other articles in Wikipedia related to events that use "collapse" relate to civic engineering, politics, economics, science, et al. (See: Collapse of the World Trade Center, State collapse, Economic collapse, Wave function collapse) We do not commonly (or at all) use "collapse" in an article name to describe what happens to a human being. For these reasons, it's a substandard title to be spreading across Wikipedia, as editors have been trying to insert this into templates that hit hundreds of pages. However, because the article is at AfD, for the one week period it is listed it is essentially in a frozen state. Since we are stuck with the title as it is, we should not be spreading it around Wikipedia.

TL;DR - Please stop adding the Main or See also section link to an article created against consensus, has a poor title, and is likely to be deleted or merged. Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:16, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Could an invisible comment be helpful and added to help remind those who attempt to re-add those templates? Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 17:52, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
That probably wouldn't work as these people have consistently been told to stop adding the templates, And yet its still an issue. Cyclonicpot (talk) 19:59, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
The invisible comments could refer them to this specific talk page discussion and mention not to add it during the AfD. If it does continue, then they are disruptive editing. Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 22:39, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
The following: Please do not add "Main" or "Seealso" templates directing to "2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin" to the top of this section until the AfD process is complete for that article. Consistently re-adding these templates is acting against consensus and will be considered as disruptive editing. Read the talk page of this article for more information. is what I am proposing as the invisible comment. Thoughts? Harobouri • 🎢 • 🏗️ (he/him) 22:53, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
I support that idea. Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
I support this Cyclonicpot (talk) 07:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin

FYI, the outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 collapse of Damar Hamlin was redirect. - Fuzheado | Talk 13:39, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox career stats

Shouldn't the career statistics portion of the infobox read "Career NFL statistics as of Week 17, 2022", rather than 18, since he did not play in Week 18? And I'm not sure if the NFL counted the statistics from the Week 17 game, so it should also potentially instead say Week 16? PizzaKing13 ¡Hablame! 00:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Add section on activism work

Hamlin visited D.C. this week, supported bill expanding access to AEDs for school districts, photographed with Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden Roboat06 (talk) 18:01, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Spilling ink on COVID Vaccine

This line:

>Shortly after the incident, there was an increase in rhetoric and disinformation from well-known anti-vaxxers including Charlie Kirk and Drew Pinsky making unfounded claims about Hamlin's cardiac arrest and COVID-19 vaccines.

I feel like we shouldn't be giving the time of day to this unfounded nonsense, and I don't really see the merit of including this in the article. Any thoughts on its removal? Zero Serenity (talk - contributions) 16:16, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Prayer on the Field from the entire team

Anybody who remembers this is going to remember the picture, and fact, that the entire team was kneeling and praying on live television. This should be in the article. Easeltine (talk) 17:26, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

  1. ^ https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/04/damar-hamlin-trending-upwards-uc-medical-center-uncle-says/
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