Talk:Czech lands

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On 15 November 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Historical regions of the Czech Republic. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

[Untitled]

Why is the time for "czech lands" on "since the 18th Century?" Czechs and Moravians had occupied the area before 900AD. psnack@seznam.cz http://svacina.com/czechia/czechia.html

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -GTBacchus^(talk) 03:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Czech lands → Lands of the Bohemian Crown —(Discuss)— These lands are primarily of historical interest, therefore the term Bohemia is preferred. It also includes all of Silesia which never was a Czech land. An article "Czech lands" might be useful too, but there should be an article on the "Lands of the Bohemian crown", which is currently a redirect to this article. Str1977 (smile back) 13:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a formal copy of the proposal, which in fact I oppose. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Oppose Lands of the Bohemian Crown would be wider, including, at a minimum, all of Silesia; arguably all of Austria down to the head of the Adriatic. Another article on the subject would be welcome. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Czech lands" is the common term. "Lands of the Bohemian crown" may be changed from a redirect into a separate article. -- Mwalcoff 23:19, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Capitalization

I think, the capitalization used is wrong, it should be "Czech Lands" not "Czech lands". --Jirka6 (talk) 00:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

the capitalisation is correct. Eleni Kaltsi (talk) 07:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone more familiar with the term "Czech lands" and its usage clarify whether it's a generic term (as in "British territory" or "German wilderness"), or a proper noun / place name (as in "United States" or "West Germany")? It's not clear from the article which is the case. In my opinion, whether the L in "lands" should be capitalized depends on which of these it is.

Note also that the editor who objected to capitalizing the L above was later banned for being a sockpuppet. Stephen Hui (talk) 21:19, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Czech lands or Bohemian lands

Czech lands or Bohemian lands ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.58.8 (talk) 11:30, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Czech lands or Bohemian lands or Lands of the Crown of Bohemia or Sudeten lands ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.113.47.139 (talk) 10:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

„The Sudetenland“ was just a smaller part of Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia. I wouldn't be afraid of „Czech lands“, although there have been a bigger German minority. The Germans were invited by Czech kings. --Zik2 (talk) 23:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The word 'Czech' does not automatically imply 'ethnic Czech' (meaning Slavic Czech). The adjective 'Czech' can be used geographically or ethnically. There is no distinction between 'Czech' and 'Bohemian' in the Czech language and this influences the usage in English as well (that the word 'Bohemian' has two meanings is a factor too). For example, it is common to say 'Czech German' for the people of German origin living in Czech Lands. To stress that a Czech is of Slavic origin (although the people intermingled for centuries so it is kind of fuzzy) one can say 'ethnic-Czech'. The usage in German language is different. --Jirka6 (talk) 01:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ahm, actually it isn't common to say 'Czech German' in German. Neither 'Deutschtscheche' nor 'Tschechendeutscher' makes an awful lot of sense. Much more common was, and still is, 'Deutschböhme', meaning a German from Bohemia (and Moravia). 'Czech German' in German denotes a assimilated German. In German the difference between Bohemian and Czech lands is huge, since the latter excludes the Germans. This was, btw., one of the major issues between Czechs and Germans in the beginning of the 20th century.

But this is the English Wikipedia, and neither the Czech nor the German viewpoint is important. A Google book search clearly favors Czech lands. Karasek (talk) 13:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you called us Böhmisches Volk. But after the rise of nationalism you started to call us Tschechen too negate the Czech history of this land.(85.0.2.33 (talk) 18:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Quite right. Even today they say: Das sind Böhmische Dörfer für mich, meaning that's completely unknown to me,

or Das sind Böhmische Wörter für mich, meaning I do not understand what you are saying.--Posp68 (talk) 12:53, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree. Yes, in German, there is a big difference between 'Boemisch' (related to the place) and 'Tschechisch' (related to the ethical group). Czech language does not have this distinction. And modern English (usually) does not make it either (probably because of the other, more frequent, meaning of Bohemian). (I see now that the order of sentences in my previous post suggested that the example was related to German. It was not supposed to be. I moved the note about German at the end to make it clearer.). --Jirka6 (talk) 16:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just call it Czechia and be done with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.127.64.22 (talk) 20:39, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 November 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:44, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Czech lands → Historical regions of the Czech Republic – As far as I can see this article is about the three historical regions of the Czech Republic: Bohemia, Moravia, and Czech Silesia. There is another article about the all lands of the Bohemian Crown: the Kingdom of Bohemia, the Margraviate of Moravia, the Duchies of Silesia, and the two Lusatias (as well as other territories throughout its history). I propose a more unambiguous, precise title for this article. Caenus (talk) 19:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I think the current title is the best for this topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you think so? 'Czech lands' should be a disambiguation page, it may refer to the all lands of the Bohemian Crown or only to the regions of the Czech Republic. Caenus (talk) 19:32, 16 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not all lands of the Bohemian Crown can be described as Czech lands. (Could we describe Croatia, Bosnia or Romania as "Hungarian lands"? Obviously not, although they or their territory were Lands of the Hungarian Crown.) Borsoka (talk) 01:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Borsoka that is exactly why I propose to move the article to Historical regions of the Czech Republic. Caenus (talk) 09:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Proposed title is more recognisable. Vpab15 (talk) 22:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Proposal which does not address how multiple articles and categories with Czech lands in title would be solved. Eg. "Historians of the Czech lands" a) Historians of historical regions of the Czech Republic b) Historians of the Czech Republic. Both bad. "Czech lands under Habsburg rule", "Prehistory of the Czech lands"... There's more reservations but let us start with this... Either it should be complex proposal or do not bother at all. Chrz (talk) 23:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Czech lands is a term used in multiple article and category titles, so it deserves main article with the name Czech lands. Chrz (talk) 08:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.