Talk:Cue sheet (computing)

Cleaning Up

To be honest, this page is kind of a mess. I'm cleaning it up and taking out the 2nd person POV throughout the scenario, but there's still some information missing. For example, what exactly is a frame, and how would I go about finding what frame a given point is in the source mp3? Azure Haights 21:26, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Can't be bothered adding it to the article, but what is meant by a frame is the smallest unit you can allocate to a track. They are 1/75th of a second long. I read somewhere (the CDR FAQ I think) that a true frame is something smaller and these 1/75 s frames are actually sectors; the use of frame is incorrect (even in the CDRWIN manual). Vadmium 00:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC).

So in other words, when creating a cue sheet, just divide the decimal portion past the second by 0.01333... (1/75) and round as I wish, regardless of source format? Thanks. That'll make the cue file I was working on work much cleaner. That whole actual "frame" definition was messing me up. Azure Haights 00:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Need for Disambiguation?

I would like to write an article about cue sheet in the cycling sense (Cue sheet (cycling)): a list of named intersection turns, the distance between successive turns, and the cumulative distance at each turn. A cyclist who carries a printed cue sheet can then follow an unfamiliar route, using his/her cyclocomputer's odometer function to anticipate each impending turn. This is one method used to specify the route for an organized group bicycle ride. Cue sheets are often used in conjuction with route maps, and/or direction marks painted on the road near the curb lane edge, called Dan Henrys. (GPS receivers offer a superior method for route navigation, but not many cyclists use them yet, and few bicycle clubs have the technical expertise to record and distribute their routes as GPX files to their riders.) Teratornis 16:33, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, yeh, go ahead and create the article and a disambiguation page. --Eleazar 11:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, isn't cue sheet a lot more generic a term, referring to almost any paper aid (or form) used to enumerate cues across a wide variety of industries and specific meanings of the term "cue"? For one example, see Cues#Cue Sheet. For another, locally, we use the term "cue sheet" to refer to a form we fill out enumerating the Cue marks associated with a particular 35m movie print, as an aid to projection. Jhawkinson 11:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

For another use, see ASCAP's CUE & A: Everything You Need To Know About Cue Sheets. jhawkinson 16:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 Done jhawkinson 00:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It isn't only used for music. The only times I have ever used it were for regular programs.--24.9.103.45 02:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

What's a "regular program"? Perhaps you should update the lede of this article to make that more clear. On my talk page you suggested, a name of Cue sheet (computing) instead, but I don't think is sufficiently specific. Almost any other type of cue sheet can have an electronic representation, which is what "computing" implies. jhawkinson 15:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Anything, like a video game, or a text-editing program. The lead doesn't need to be made more specific because it's a broad concept. I shouldn't mess with it anyway because I'm not an expert on the concept. It already says in the paragraph that it's used in many types of applications. So, it's as straight-forward as I just put it. I've used it to transfer programs as .bin files onto CDs as folders and other types of files. "Cue sheet (music software)" isn't acceptable, so until a better name is proposed, I'll just have to do a cut-and-paste move. I was hoping you might be able to help. I wasn't asking for your opinion, as it seems you don't know anything about .cue sheets. I guess I should have just done it myself instead of posting here.--24.9.103.45 20:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

What about data CDs?

This page is totally focused on MP3s and audio CDs. What about the use of CUE files to specify the data layout of a CD image?

Winamp 5.3 support

The updated version does support 5.3, you can read about it in this forum thread.

.cue and mounting

Some info about how to mount a CD/DVD using a .cue sheet would be great. --Abdull 13:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Mounting .cue in GNU/Linux

cue2toc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carpetsmoker (talk • contribs) 18:43, August 21, 2007 (UTC).

sample cue sheet of a BIN image file

Although I am not sure whether this should be mentioned in the article or not, here it is at least. When mounting an image containing non-audio data, such as a game if you will, they could look like this:

FILE "sampleimage.bin" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00

Notice that "sampleimage.bin" has to be replaced with the image of your bin-file. The bin and the cue sheet should always be placed in the same folder, using paths in the cue sheet won't work. There you go. Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 21:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Cue Sheet Metadata Question

Here's what I'd like to know: Is the metadata in the cue sheets compatible with the Red Book standard? --77.105.60.242 00:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Text Editors

Once the times are decided, open up any plaintext text editor, such as Notepad or TextEdit,

Why mention these 2 specific editors when any will get the jib done? Furthermore, these are not available everywhere. Linking text editor makes more sense.

Cláudio Valente 08:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

XMPlay

XMPlay has support for getting track info from embedded and external CUE sheets. I would guess that this information would go under 'Play on Windows PC' in the 'Uses' section. Though, I'm not too sure on how to write this, does it count as 'native support'? For more information: Title formatting XMPlay 3.4 Changelog -- Execvator 15:38, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

software links

why were the software links deleted on April 3rd??? I thought they were a useful bonus tho this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.78.80.199 (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

mplayer have more faults

I don't have permission to edit that page (from China, through a proxy to wikipedia and editing from a proxy is not allowed). But this line is incomplete:

MPlayer can read .cue files with cue:// type URL (with bug: mplayer can't open any cuesheet not having FILE as the first line)

In fact, MPlayer have big problems with cuesheets. bug 1: before any track, there must be one and only one line which starts with FILE; bug 2: the file_format option is completely ignored and bug 3: mplayer try to play the music file always using MPEG encoding, which means cuesheets referring to flac, ogg, Monkey's Audio format (APE) would not work (not all tested but shouldn't work); 4) ALL lines in TRACK section that doesn't begin with INDEX are ignored with warning. and probably it also have problem with different indents. Honestly I'd suspect mplayer's cuesheet playing feature only work for the very cuesheet which the developer made the cue:// feature with. The buggy code is here: http://www.koders.com/c/fidF0B638FF8E2F17F92A133A3586E44EE84E0143B9.aspx?s=%22cue%3a%2f%2f%22

And cuesheet support in Linux world in general is poor. Someone may point this out in the article. You can refer to this blog article to get an impression. http://thevault13.blogspot.com/2007/02/cue-sheet-flac-under-linux.html

I'd also very much appreciate if someone describe the awkwardly situation Linux user like me have: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/flac/2007-June/000905.html

correction that flac can only embed INDEX value in metadata block

Play with .cue-compatible media players

   * FLAC can embed a whole cuesheet into metadata block of flac audio files

From my very limited knowledge and very limited personal experience, flac can only embed a part of cuesheet data into metadata block. More specificly only INDEX data. Yet this information should not be listed in "Play with .cue-compatible media players" section because not all flac players can make use of this metadata.

Some Changes

I made some changes to this article:

1. Remove the "tutorial" section, wikipedia in an encyclopedia, not a HOWTO collection.
2. I removed the two images, neither of them add anything useful to the article.
3. Remove "Uses" section, there are a zillion-and-one programs supporting cue sheets, it is much more appropiate to add a ".cue" row to articles such as Comparison of media players than to list all programs here.

Note: Someone needs to rewrite (parts of) this article, both the grammar and writing style are pretty awkward at some points. Carpetsmoker 13:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I reverted all of your changes:

1. The how-to section helps readers understand cue sheets.
2. A picture is worth a million words.
3. If you can think of a better way to display the information, please do so instead of just trashing it.
   --Gnfgb2 05:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

1. How does the tutorial section comply with WP:NOT#HOWTO?
2. What do the images add? The first one is the same as the text-equivalent in the article, and the second is just a list of songs in a media player, so which "million words" are these images worth?
3. Like I said, add a ".cue" row to articles such as Comparison of media players, the current list is (very) incomplete, a complete list would contain dozens of different applications, maintaining such a list here is not practical. Carpetsmoker 17:38, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

1. Explain why you think it's so important to apply that rule here. Rules are not ends in themselves.
2. The first image shows exactly how a .cue sheet is written. Without the image, a reader would have to skim or read most of the article to get the same information. An entire section of several paragraphs named 'Example/Tutorial' performs the same function. Both images also break up the text, making it look less dull.
3. If you want a .cue row added, do it yourself. It's your responsibility to finish any cut-and-paste job you begin. You can't just cut without pasting. I think it's fine the way it is, so if you want it changed, you'll have to do it yourself.

--Gnfgb2 19:16, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

1. How about just moving it to wikibooks:Cue sheet and then link there, or would that be inappropriate somehow?
2. The first image just shows a screenshot of text, it doesn't explain anything at all and it does not perform the same function as the "Example/Tutorial" section. No comments on the the second one.
3. See the section below I made on this.

--Execvator 03:48, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

1. I suppose it could be modified and moved, it really doesn't belong here and should be removed from this article, ("Rules are not ends in themselves") isn't much of an argumentation on itself to keep it.
2. A user can scroll down a bit, this is actually easier (You need two mouseclicks to see the image, vs 1 mouseclick to see the example section), images should not be added "for decoration" or to "make an article look less dull" (I think there is a style guideline for this, can't be bothered to search), the second image is just a playlist in some media player, there's nothing special about it, you can't even tell if the playlist is a cue sheet or just a list of mp3 songs, in addition the image isn't free Carpetsmoker 09:29, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

1. It's really clearly stated inWP:NOT#HOWTO that the tutorial section ought to be removed -- weblinks to a tutorial like that in the weblink section would be more approbiate. --84.185.94.42 16:06, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Removing the "Uses" section

I created a new section regarding #3 of the above section "Some Changes". I did not respond directly because, I think, that would have been too messy.

I can volunteer to add the cue column on Comparison of media players. Though I'm not sure where to add it, would the Metadata support section be appropiate?

Left to do would be disc authoring software and FLAC. I can't find any page on Comparison of disc authoring software, should one be added or have I just missed it? This page (Cue sheet (computing)) states that "FLAC can embed a whole cuesheet into metadata block of flac audio files", but the page on FLAC doesn't note anything about embedding abilities. It just says that a cue file can be created, though this depends on the player/ripper rather than the codec, doesn't it?

As a last note, this are the pages (under "Uses") that are missing references to cue sheets. Nero Burning ROM, K3b, Amarok (software) and Winamp. --Execvator 03:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Metadata would be the appropriate section.

Comparison of disc authoring software (Or a similar article) doesn't seem to exist, creating one would be appropriate (I'll start on it after breakfast), I'll start with all the stuff that runs on GNU/Linux.

You can create cue sheets for any (audio) codec, all cue support is with the player, not the codec. Carpetsmoker 09:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Created Cue sheet row: Comparison_of_media_players#Metadata_support

I've started on Comparison of disc authoring software, I'm not really an expert on this issue, and adding applications is time-consuming, help would be appreciated. Carpetsmoker 18:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Execvator and 84.185.94.42 (a German IP address) are obviously your sock-puppets. If they start edit-warring with you, I will file a check-user request. This isn't a game. The person who refuses to admit that they're wrong the longest does not "win." If you want to be productive and add something of value to the article, go ahead. If you're bored and want to remove helpful parts from articles to kill time, then Wikipedia isn't for you.--Gnfgb2 18:56, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not have any sock puppets (I'm not German but Dutch, and my I.P. is 82.93.23.199.).

If you disagree with (my) edits, then please do not start calling me names or start accusing me of all sorts of things, it's insulting and doesn't help to improve the article (And this is a goal we both have in common), all my edits were made in good faith, see WP:GOODFAITH

Please do not revert my edits, Help:Reverting clearly states "Do not simply revert changes that are made as part of a dispute. Be respectful to other editors, their contributions and their points of view." and "Improve the edit, rather than reverting it."

I reverted the article back to my version for the following reasons:

1. In my opinion you have not provided any valid arguments for not making the 3 changes outlined in "Some Changes", two other people have replied agreed with me.
2. My recent edit contained more changes, including Layout improvements, Grammar improvements, Added page to Category:Metadata, Cleaned up the link section, and more, do you disagree with all these edits to...?

Carpetsmoker 19:19, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I can drop that point, but if they do start edit warring, I will still ask for a checkuser to get involved. That wasn't an ad-hominem argument. I am still addressing your argument below.

1. I have already made my case above. I do not have to rebut any argument you happen to come up with. Sometimes it's best just to let silly arguments be seen for what they are.
2. If you don't want me to revert all of your changes, then perhaps you should make them in phases (i.e., one area at a time). As for style, you repeated that it is plain text on the second line. CD's is possesive (i.e., it denotes ownership), so CDs is more appropriate. == Uses == should stay. I understand you added the content to another entry, so perhaps a cross-reference would suffice under the heading. Also, the images are still valuable. (See my argument above.) Also, the example you added is a lot less informative than the previous version.

--Gnfgb2 19:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I modified the article to be a, in my opinion, fair compromise, I re-added the Uses section as it was, and re-added a trimmed-down version of the previous Examples section.

If you insist on the images being re-added, then you should make a screenshot of a free application, the current images are both non-free (fair use), a free version can be made easily.

Assuming you agree that the current revision is a fair compromise, I propose that we both "take a step back" for a while and let other editors voice their opinion and/or edit the article, since I still stand by my argument, and so do you. (And I have a feeling that this will not change for either of us.) Carpetsmoker 20:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Should the Uses section really be kept? The name 'Uses' doesn't seem to really explain the content of the section. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to name it 'Software' or such if it's going to stay as-is? Personally, I think it would be more fitting to list the different areas in computing that uses cue sheets with descriptions.

@Gnfgb2, I'm no ones sock puppet and you have no need to fear any edit war from me. I prefer to have 'consensus' when editing (removing/changing) something to a greater degree. And just for your information, I'm from Sweden and my IP is 85.227.151.* --Execvator 21:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Note Gnfgb2 (talk · contribs) is a sock of hard-banned user Primetime (talk · contribs). Any edits he makes to the project can and should be reverted. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Link to online cue generator

What is the problem for link to the online cue generator? You think this article doesn't deserve to have a link to the cuegenerator.net light and simple online cue generator? --DVaffection (talk) 10:12, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

As pointed out on your talk page, the link does not meet Wikipedia's external links guidelines. --Ronz (talk) 18:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

CDRWIN or DAO.EXE

The claim that cue sheets originated with the CDRWIN software is attributed to the HydrogenAudio Knowledgebase, which is just a wiki, itself, not a reliable source. The claim was added to that wiki by Neil Popham, and he didn't cite a source, either.

I don't doubt that the kind of cue sheets we're talking about started with Golden Hawk Technology's software, but I do wonder which came first, CDRWIN or DAO.EXE? The page for the latter says "Unique cuesheet scripting language gives you 100% custom control over the disc layout. No two second gaps between tracks like other software!" DAO was at version 3.1 in 1997 and supported cue sheets back then. I think CDRWIN 1.0 didn't come along until 2001.

I've written to Golden Hawk to see if they can clear this up. —mjb (talk) 04:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

In the meantime I've tagged the Hydrogenaudio reference as potentially unreliable. --Kvng (talk) 14:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The only email address on the CDRWIN site is bouncing. Figures.

<<< 550 Mailbox unavailable <techsupport@goldenhawk.com>

550 5.1.1 <techsupport@goldenhawk.com>... User unknown

—mjb (talk) 09:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

DVD?

The 1st sentence of the article mentions DVDs but I'm pretty sure cue sheets was designed for audio CDs and have yet to see them working with any DVD related content.FaTony (talk) 09:44, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. No comment on moving this article to Cue file. -- tariqabjotu 13:00, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

---

Cue sheet (computing) → Cue sheet – The current title include a disambiguation qualifier that is not required. At present Cue sheet is a disambiguation page; it has only two entries, only one of which is a link to an article whose topic is a cue sheet. Per WP:TWODABS, such disambiguation can be accomplished with a hatnote.

Previously, Cue sheet included 3 entries. I removed one because it "disambiguated" to an external link, not to a Wikipedia article (it also included a bluelink to the ASCAP Wikipedia article, but that was incidental and that article has no content with respect to cue sheets). The other link is to Cue (theatrical). That article is not named "cue sheet" or any variety thereof, and its only coverage of cue sheets is one three-sentence paragraph about cue sheets as used in the theatrical sense.

This is the only article on Wikipedia whose topic is a cue sheet. To the extent someone puts in "cue sheet" looking for the theatrical sense, that can be dealt with via an {{about}} hatnote, e.g.

This page is about the optical disc metadata file. For use in theatre, see Cue (theatrical).

TJRC (talk) 22:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose redirect to the theatrical article instead. There can be a hatnote there. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 00:16, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support It seems a reasonable proposal to me considering there is actually only one article called Cue sheet. The disambiguation page is redundant: At the moment a reader searching on "cue sheet" in the search box is given two choices—the computing article and disambiguation page, so once click is needed to reach the compuyting article and two to reach Cue (theatrical)#Cue sheet (through the disambiguation page). If a hatnote to Cue (theatrical)#Cue sheet is added to the computing article then you still get the same "mileage" (one click for the computing article and two for the theater article) but no disambiguation is necessary. Betty Logan (talk) 00:48, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Betty, whether other articles exist as standalones or as sections of bigger articles is not part of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:54, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

• Comment; in the time since I made the above proposal, new entry for The Cue Sheet, the quarterly journal of The Film Music Society, has been added to the DAB page, making it a 3-element dab. I think that's a legitimate entry, so it does change my position on this. I still think that, since this is the only article named "cue sheet" it still should be moved to "Cue sheet"; however, 1) the current dab page should go to Cue sheet (disambiguation) and 2) the hatnote on this page, post-move, should be:

This article is about the optical disc metadata file. For other uses, see Cue sheet (disambiguation).

TJRC (talk) 01:11, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

• Strong support. I cannot imagine someone looking for theatrical cues to type in "cue sheet"; it just seems like an absurd thing to search for. Who is interested in the sheet, anyway? See Nice, for instance; sure, "nice" (rhymes with "ice") is a much more common word than "Nice" (rhymes with "fleece"), but which one is anyone going to be actually looking for? Red Slash 05:40, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose, irrespective of what anyone can imagine, Cue sheet in printed sources fails WP:PRIMARYTOPIC by a long margin. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:54, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Both uses broadly amount to the same thing in terms of purpose - a sequence of events (or tracks) with timing and any other linked information (e.g. artist name or lighting action). If looking for the computing technical description I would be much more likely to search for cue file and feel that Cue sheet (computing) should move to Cue file. The theatrical cue sheet could point to the computing cue file article. As the theatrical term is broader in scope and more widely used, this should remain the primary topic. SheffGruff (talk) 14:28, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose No WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. ~KvnG 11:04, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
• Comment from requestor, although I initiated this RM, I must admit, SheffGruff's proposal makes more sense than mine: although the present naming scheme is not good, moving to cue file is a better solution than what I proposed. TJRC (talk) 19:12, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
• Weak Support, and oppose the name "cue file". The original reasons given for the move are sufficient, but only so as long as there's justification for the current article's size, and only so long as there isn't enough content for articles about the other kinds of cue sheets. I predict there won't ever be much said about the other kinds of cue sheets, but I also predict this article won't remain as lengthy and full of unsourced technical details as it is. If someone wants to gut it on the grounds of non-notability, weak referencing, or being overly technical, I don't think we could put up much of a fight. If that happens, we'll probably just end up with a single, non-technical "cue sheet" article that mentions the existence of the different types and maybe gives some visual examples. Re: notability, a Google Books search for "cue sheet" (with the quotes) will give you an idea of how prevalent the other kinds of cue sheets are are...There are many references for the existence of cue sheets for various theatrical purposes, video game development, and radio royalty reporting... but relatively few for the kinds of cue sheets used for professional CD mastering, and fewer still (almost nil) for the ".cue file" kind as used for CD-R mastering and amateur digital distribution of ripped CDs. So yeah, the "cue file" is in its heyday right now and is our pet topic, but I'm not yet convinced the bulk of the article has longevity. I don't like cue file as an article title because cue sheet really is the proper term and refers to not just the text file, but also what's derived from it: the binary data stream for the SEND CUE SHEET command, as covered in the SCSI MMC (CD-ROM interface) spec. A redirect can (and does) take care of searches for less formal names. —mjb (talk) 01:10, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Index

Tracks can have more than 00 and 01 INDEX, examples are Rhapsody's Power of the Dragon Flame, where the last 19 minutes long track has 3 indexes for the 3 parts and Ayreon's new album, who has 4 long tracks, but they have more indexes which divide them into 42 tracks. 178.43.171.118 (talk) 15:43, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and added info about indexes above 01, and clarified that only INDEX 01 is required. However, such technical details may not be noteworthy for the article. We are on a slippery slope of rewriting the entire spec here in the Wikipedia article. —mjb (talk) 14:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)