Talk:Collapse of Silicon Valley Bank

Section on broader effects of collapse?

I'm not sure, just getting some basic ideas out there 98.59.80.64 (talk) 03:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Citation of call report statistics?

The Silicon Valley Bank's Q4 2022 call report notes:

• on page 49 at RCFDF236 ("Total deposit liabilities before exclusions (gross) as defined in Section 3(l) of the Federal Deposit Insurance Act and FDIC regulations") some 175,488,000 thousand in total deposits and
• on page 50 the bank's estimate of its uninsured deposits at RCON5597 ("Estimated amount of uninsured deposits in domestic offices of the bank and in insured branches in Puerto Rico and U.S. territories and possessions, including related interest accrued and unpaid") as 151,592,000 thousand in estimated uninsured deposits.

Doing the maths, this is 86.38 pc. You can pull the call report yourself on the FFIEC website at https://cdr.ffiec.gov/public/ManageFacsimiles.aspx. However, because all field are POST, you can't get a stable link for SVB's Q4 2022 call report. I have no idea how to cite this. Ifly6 (talk) 03:35, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Note also that actual amounts may have changed since then. The depositors who run are preferentially those with uninsured deposits. Iyer, Rajkamal; et al. (2016). "A tale of two runs: depositor responses to bank solvency risk". Journal of Finance. 71 (6): 2687–2726. doi:10.1111/jofi.12424. Ifly6 (talk) 03:37, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Ifly6: Looks like it hasn't been cited on English Wikipedia before. So probably not a template or something similar available. Maybe just a ref tag with link and explanation? Or are you talking non-technically? - Scarpy (talk) 10:03, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

What I mean is that it's difficult to force this into something like a CS1 or CS2 citation. There's no URL. There's no canonical title even, just a description akin to Call report for CERT 24735, and the date? The format of the call report also differs. The physical facsimile is a forgery: I know from experience collecting the call report statistics that nobody actually fills in the call report schedules this way anymore. What matters are in fact the field codes. Ifly6 (talk) 10:07, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Ifly6: So https://cdr.ffiec.gov/Public/ViewFacsimileDirect.aspx?ds=call&idtype=id_rssd&id=802866&date=12312022 is not a stable link? I presume the "ds=call" means "call report" and the "idtype=id_rssd" means that the "id=" field gives an ID for a Research, Statistics, Supervision and Regulation, and Discount and Credit Database (RSSD) report. The reportid= value appears to be the RSSD-ID for the report (from the first page of the report), and the date= is the date of the report, so I don't see anything that would make the URL unstable, but perhaps I've missed something.

So is the issue that the PDF, which I presume is the "physical facsimile" to which you're referring (or would be if I printed it out, making it physical rather than a bunch of data in PDF format), is bogus? Guy Harris (talk) 07:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Nice find. I wasn't able to get a GET-style link through the application. As to the PDF itself, the call reports are not filed that way. The PDF that is generated there is by taking the call report data and placing it into the corresponding fields into the form. The data is actually filled online through the CDR. While I suppose one could cite a specific page of the call report facsimile, it would not reflect the actual data generation process. Ifly6 (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

So there isn't a way to get the raw call report data, presumably?

(If you're curious, the process for getting that link was weird. I went to https://cdr.ffiec.gov/public/ManageFacsimiles.aspx, selected "Call Report" from the "Report:" menu, type "Silicon Valley Bank"in the "Institution Name" box in the page that popped up after that, clicked "Search Banks", and clicked "Download Results" in the resulting pop-up window. That downloaded a file named "InstitutionSearchResults.txt", which contained

Institution Name	Entity Type	City	State	IDRSSD	Report Date	Report Type	Hyperlink
SILICON VALLEY BANK	State Member Bank	SANTA CLARA              	CA	802866	12/31/2022 11:59:59 PM	Call	https://cdr.ffiec.gov/Public/ViewFacsimileDirect.aspx?ds=call&idtype=id_rssd&id=802866&date=12312022

which was obviously not the call report. I then went to that URL and voila. Not the best web site design that I've ever seen....) Guy Harris (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

The raw data can be downloaded as a CSV file. Every field would be a separate column. I think it would be even more of a pain to try to cite that. There are internal data sets which the bank regulators use which have the data processed to a much more readable level. They can be got through FOIA. The website's post forms are extremely annoying and I expect that they were designed in a hurry. Ifly6 (talk) 09:14, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Israeli companies and protestor money

According to news items in Israel, a call by Israeli protestors and hi-tech managers to pull money out of Israel, since they were worried about the stability of the Israeli economy, had pulled money to this bank. Also many Israeli startup companies were invested in this bank. Israeli startups panic as SVB share price plunges (Israeli financial magazine Globes) SVB tanked, dragging down 500 Israel startups (Jewish Press)

Prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu promised tonight that the Israeli government will help these companies with long term loans, and support the banks that help Israeli startups. on Times of Israel

Bank Leumi and Bank Hapoalim, major Israeli banks already accepted these companies. Bizportal (in Hebrew)

We'll have to wait and see how much of this is confirmed. פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 20:35, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Do you want some other outlet to confirm? It looks to me that The Jewish Press is reliable enough to include in the impact section. SWinxy (talk) 20:48, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Less ambiguous name?

When first seeing this article on the front page, my initial impression was that a physical bank collapsed -- as in, a structural failure. Perhaps I am in the minority here, but could there be a less ambiguous name of this article? "Collapse" is a bit poetic, just a smidge too metaphorical. MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!_{(talk or whatever)} 09:21, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Several reputable news sources have described this event as a collapse. This is a common phrase in the context of a banking crisis. Do you have a preferred phrase?Lucas(CA2) (talk) 20:04, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

It could be "failure" of Silicon Valley Bank, but collapse seems fairly unambiguous to me (indeed, we have articles like Collapse of the Canadian Women's Hockey League that also use "collapse" in this manner). This is a bank with multiple branches, so it would be hard to figure out how this would refer to a physical object. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 13:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

FWIW, I would have called the event a “failure” too, but I am not an English native speaker. --Filippof (talk) 19:39, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Bernie Marcus quote

I added the following to the "Reactions" section:

Home Depot co-founder Bernie Marcus said, "I think that the system, that the administration has pushed many of these banks into [being] more concerned about global warming than they do about shareholder return. And these banks are badly run because everybody is focused on diversity and all of the woke issues and not concentrating on the one thing they should, which is, shareholder returns."

User:Soibangla removed it. I think the quote is notable. Fox News is a reliable source when it comes to quoting someone's opinion. The opinion itself may be questionable, but there is no doubt that the person said those words. I think it should be put back in. What do others think? SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 00:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

No need to indulge clickbait nonsense like this. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:00, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Why can't I blame the wokeness on anything??? SWinxy (talk) 01:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Bernie Marcus' opinion isn't relevant to the collapse. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:47, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Many of the reactions are opinionated - why remove just this one? (I/me) 24.12.62.252 (talk) 16:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Marcus' opinion is utterly disconnected from the actual mechanisms and causes of the collapse; SVB's liquidity issues have nothing to do with wokeness and everything to do with concentrated interest rate risk. It shouldn't be included. (I also edited the original post here to make the indents etc clearer and to remove a duplicate signature line.) Ifly6 (talk) 03:04, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Fox is also running a summary of Republican presidential candidates' reactions to the bank's failure. I cited this article for two of the candidates' responses regarding solutions, which are similar to views already mentioned in the article, but I held off on Trump in case folks here think his more partisan response regarding the cause of the failure would be less relevant. Feel free to mention it if it would be appropriate. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 03:52, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses everyone. SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 08:56, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Bank failures series

That series template's kind of morbid tbh. Couldn't it wait even until the failure count for 2019 or 2020 (four each) was exceeded? 67.180.143.89 (talk) 05:18, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

bridge bank

I don't see much if any reporting on the purpose of Silicon Valley Bank N. A., which came out of nowhere overnight.

is it a bridge to a new permanent Silicon Valley Bank N.A., or a bridge to ultimate liquidation, which was the plan yesterday? soibangla (talk) 23:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

It is a bridge to whatever resolution the FDIC determines to be appropriate after it has had time to make a determination. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 00:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Right, but how is it different from the previous structure? soibangla (talk) 00:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

It's different from the structure of the failed SVB because it doesn't have the non-deposit liabilities and does have the backstop of the Deposit Insurance Fund. It's different from the DINB plan because it can use cash flow from the failed bank's assets to meet deposits, which a DINB cannot do. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 00:59, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Washington Post, March 14, 2023

This is titled, "GOP blames Silicon Valley Bank’s collapse on ‘ESG’ policies. Here’s what to know."

My previous attempt at addressing this subject was dismissed because my only source was Fox News.

Now that the Washington Post has reported on it, I think it deserves additional consideration. The quote from Bernie Marcus that I cited from Fox News is not included in this piece from the Washington Post, but the same general idea is mentioned. I think something from this could improve the article. I'd be curious to hear what others think.

Original Washington Post article, which is (in some cases) behind a paywall: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/03/14/svb-esg-woke-investing/

Google archive of the same article: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_ClGoILiJvYJ:https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/03/14/svb-esg-woke-investing/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

MSN publication of the same article: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/why-the-gop-is-blaming-silicon-valley-bank-s-collapse-on-woke-capitalism/ar-AA18BAQC

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 19:27, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Your change quoted Marcus, giving his (wrong) reaction some sort of importance. It's better to say that conservatives blamed the failure on wokeism and that there is nothing to back up these claims, rather than repeating them. I'll add the WaPo article. SWinxy (talk) 20:00, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for adding it! SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 22:39, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

The previous discussion focused on the fact that Marcus's opinion was objectively incorrect, not that it was reported on by Fox News. This article does cite different Fox News and Fox Business articles, after all. Anyways, the main focus of the "Reactions" section is about calls for action and calm reassurances from relevant individuals. If we're going to cover speculation about the causes, the most informed speculation should probably go up in the "Collapse" section. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 20:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 22:39, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

I added a sentence about this just for its comedic value. Fox News is pushing this stupidity hard.[1] soibangla (talk) 22:53, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

"No systemic risk" takes

Should this article continue to include early statements, attributed to experts, that the failure was unlikely to pose a systemic risk? These are rather discredited in view of the impact on other institutions and opinions from the Treasury and the Fed that it did indeed. Although, perhaps one could say that the risk was not from the bank but illustrated by it. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 16:36, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

That seems to be the point made by several commentators this past week, that the perception of risk began taking on a life of its own. But the word "systemic" is open to interpretation, so I qualified the sentence to be on the safe side. Minh Nguyễn ^💬 10:13, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

shifting to longer maturies

per this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Collapse_of_Silicon_Valley_Bank&diff=prev&oldid=1145958793&diffmode=source

Despite its growth in deposits, the bank struggled to find ways to make money off them. Banks typically invest customer deposits in a variety of assets that they can earn a return on, including a mix of long-term and short-term bonds issued by the government — a largely safe bet. But SVB decided that government debt that came due over 10 to 30 years — and offered higher interest rates at the time — was a better bet than shorter-duration bonds, which paid less interest, according to analysts. So it made an outsize bet on long-dated bonds, a lack of diversity that increased its risk.[2]

soibangla (talk) 23:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

That quotation does not justify the statement in the article "Seeking higher investment returns, in 2021 SVB began shifting its marketable securities portfolio from short-term to long-term Treasury bonds"

They took a 2021 surge in new deposits and invested them in long term bonds. There is nothing in your quote about them "shifting" anything. Wickorama (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Review of SVB's 10k filings shows that its HTM securities with 10y+ maturity ballooned in 2021 without any matching reduction in shorter term holdings. The increase was funded with deposit cash. I updated the wording. 67.180.143.89 (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

unsourced content

Jainabhisu007, please stop adding unsourced content as you also did at 2023 United States banking crisis. I think these articles are stable and pretty much settled and don't need rewrites. Feel free to discuss here if you disagree. Thank you. soibangla (talk) 17:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Primary sources, March 2024

Now that there are high-quality secondary sources on this bank failure – eg Metrick, Andrew (2024-02-01). "The Failure of Silicon Valley Bank and the Panic of 2023". Journal of Economic Perspectives. 38 (1): 133–152. doi:10.1257/jep.38.1.133. ISSN 0895-3309. – I think this article should be tagged {{primary sources}} and rewritten to reduce its (over-)reliance on contemporary news sources. Ifly6 (talk) 14:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)