Talk:Castle Clinton

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Castle Clinton has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 20, 2023. (Reviewed version).

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Military history: Fortifications / North America / United States

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A fact from Castle Clinton appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 November 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the New York City Board of Estimate voted to demolish Fort Clinton (pictured) six times before the fort became a U.S. national monument?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Castle Clinton.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Antnagikian.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:55, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another Fort Clinton

There is more than one fort Clinton, the second less famous one, was razed during the American Revolution by Clinton's army. Fort Clinton, was located on the popolopean creek, and the hudson river. Fort Clinton today is a national Historical site, alongside the applachain trail. There is also a zoo, and a museum on the site.

IUCN ratings?

Who keeps putting these things everywhere? I mean, really, does Castle Clinton conform to any of these criteria?:"natural sites which have heritage significance to indigenous peoples. The area should be large enough to protect the integrity of the feature and its immediately related surroundings. "Shoreranger 03:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

10/15/66 was a busy day for the NPS

(From the first section)

As with all historic areas administered by the National Park Service, Castle Clinton National Monument was listed on the National Register of Historic Places on October 15, 1966.

Wow, really, they all got listed the same day? I mean for all I know it could be true. Somebody should define "historic area" then. --thundt (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That was the day the register was created. By the law creating it, all National Historic Landmarks and NPS historic areas were automatically listed. Station1 (talk) 05:41, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by RoySmith (talk) 22:30, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Castle Clinton

... that Castle Clinton was never used for its intended purpose but has functioned as an entertainment venue, immigration station, and public aquarium? Source: Multiple, including Roberts, Sam (July 29, 2005). "The Fort That Let Outsiders In". The New York Times.
- ALT1: ... that Castle Clinton, built to defend Manhattan, later became an entertainment venue, immigration station, and public aquarium? Source: Multiple, including Roberts, Sam (July 29, 2005). "The Fort That Let Outsiders In". The New York Times.
- ALT2: ... that Fort Clinton was built to defend Manhattan but never fired a shot? Source: Roberts, Sam (July 29, 2005). "The Fort That Let Outsiders In". The New York Times. "Aquarium Doomed by Estimate Board; Moses Scoffs at Proposal to Restore Old Fort, Saying It 'Never Fired a Shot'". The New York Times. June 26, 1942.
- ALT3: ... that Fort Clinton, built to keep invaders out of Manhattan, later attracted millions of annual visitors? Source: "History & Culture". Castle Clinton National Monument (U.S. National Park Service). April 26, 2021.
- ALT4: ... that the Castle Clinton National Monument contains ticket offices for the Statue of Liberty National Monument? Source: Plagianos, Irene (July 6, 2019). "Lady Liberty Sparks Battle of the Boat Tours". Wall Street Journal.
- ALT5: ... that the New York City Board of Estimate voted to demolish Fort Clinton six times before the fort became a U.S. national monument? Source: "Estimate Board Votes to Complete Demolition of Old Aquarium Here". The New York Times. May 28, 1948; "World Hails U.N.'s 5th Birthday; 3,000 Here in Parade to City Hall". The New York Times. October 25, 1950.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cardigan Donuts

5x expanded by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 14:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: Not a review but I really quite like ALT3! Nice job! ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: I plan on reviewing this nomination. Though i'm gonna wait for a QPQ before I do. Onegreatjoke (talk) 22:40, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onegreatjoke: Just a heads-up that I've now added a QPQ. Epicgenius (talk) 14:00, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Epicgenius: Good article as per usual! Im going to have to assume good faith on the New York Times articles (I didn't buy their subscription) and carry on. Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:31, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Advised?

'a second clerk advised them about their destination'. This strongly suggests that they were told and made to go to a particular place. Shouldn't this say they were questioned about their intended destination, then perhaps advised on transportation etc. Toyokuni3 (talk) 20:50, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:52, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Castle Clinton/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Premeditated Chaos (talk · contribs) 20:25, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Putting myself down for this one. Ping if I don't start it within a week or so. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:25, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos Don't worry, I forgot about this too.

– Epicgenius (talk) 16:31, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aaaaaaaaa sorry every time this week I've tried to open Wikipedia to do anything that requires actual brain cells, a mariachi band plays in my head and I close the tab in shame. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:17, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, I get the feeling too sometimes. ;) Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As usual I've made a few copyedits throughout, some larger ones that I've called out above and a few minor ones not noted. Feel free to revert or dispute them
No gripes in the lead - clear prose, concise summary
First para of "Original use", you have two sentences in a row that finish with "of fortifications in New York Harbor", which could maybe be tweaked
- Done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Was the artificial island build for the fort, or did it exist before? Do we know?
- The artificial island was completed circa 1810, if I recall correctly, so probably built for the fort. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think describing cannons as "x-pounder" is standard and doesn't need quotation marks (the cannon article doesn't, and it's FA, although not a hill I'll die on)
- Removed. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In "Entertainment venue" I revised the sentence about the opera premieres a bit
I also separated the two sentences about Allen's lease into their own small paragraph, as that's a new thought relative to the rest of the paragraph's content which discusses performances at the venue
Why have [[History of immigration to the United States|first American immigration station]] in the lead, but nowhere in the body?
- I have linked this in the body. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"unauthorized immigration agents"? Or unauthorized immigrants...? If the first, uhh...what?
- Oops, I meant the latter. I had a bit of a brain fart there. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the outbuildings sentence to the end of the para as that seemed more logical
Kesselgarten struck me as more of a dicdef, so I made a wiktionary entry and turned ours into a soft redirect. I adjusted the phrasing/linking a bit
"booking agents" is this a technical term? booking for what?
- Booking for transport tickets. Railroads and ferries had booking agents, who would sell tickets for these modes of transport. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - Ohh okay so they're like running over saying "we can book you a ticket out of here", gotcha ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"on the manifest of the largest ship" - do we know the name of that ship?
- I don't know, but I can take a look later. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's not dreadfully important ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"To encourage immigrants to use other ports of entry" - do we know why they wanted this?
- This was to reduce overcrowding, as many immigrants heading to Castle Garden were destined for other parts of the US anyway. However, this was not particularly successful as many immigrants only knew about Castle Garden. It was the Ellis Island of its time (and ironically, Ellis Island was built to replace Castle Garden). Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Head tax" and "poll tax" are used interchangeably, but it isn't clear from context that those are synonyms. Can we either clarify or pick just one?
- IDK where "poll tax" came from. I changed this to "head tax". Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
First two sentences of "Closure" both use "numerous"
- Fixed. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"reportedly did not enforce federal laws" Was this like, they should've been enforcing but refused to for malicious reasons, or didn't enforce them because it wasn't their job in the first place?
- It was the latter, as the state officials were only interested in enforcing state laws. Epicgenius (talk) 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"gross stupidity" 😂
I realized that in the entertainment venue section, you have 2022 conversions, but not elsewhere. Any particular reason for this?
Aside from this no gripes through the Aquarium section
You've got your first link to the Board of Estimate way down under "Initial plans", but it's mentioned earlier. Deliberate?
I made a few minor wording revisions, but otherwise no issues through the rest of "Demolition"
"two subterranean water tanks" do we know what these are for? Is it important?
Did the tensile roof ever get installed? I don't see a mention of it in the main description of the monument as it is now

Okay, that's it. Fairly top-heavy for comments, very minimal stuff after the aquarium. As always, your writing is clear and descriptive. No concerns about MOS, CV/paraphrasing, NPOV, or other content issues. Spot checks of accessible sources (including Newspapers.com clips, books, and other news reports) checked out with no factual issues. Images are free and suitably tagged and captioned. No concerns. I'm going to pass this; treat anything else as a suggestion, as there's nothing that would casuse a GACR fail. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:51, 20 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.