Talk:Cómo Dónde y Cuándo

Cómo Dónde y Cuándo was nominated as a Music good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (October 16, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 29 July 2024 by reviewer SafariScribe (talk · contribs).

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Songs

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GA Review

Unsuccessful. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 07:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cómo Dónde y Cuándo/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: 1arch (talk · contribs) 08:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: PSA (talk · contribs) 23:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, and welcome to the GAN process! Congratulations on your first nominations. I will be reviewing this one; please expect this review to be done by Sunday at most. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 23:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Needs some improvement, but going by the prose itself, I can't fail the article based on this criterion alone. See my comments here
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	The lead does not need a citation, and it needs some expansions. Add something about the lyrics and critical reception.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	A suggestion that's outside the GAN criteria but may benefit the article in case of an FAC: I would recommend converting some of the ".com" website names (e.g. www.telemetro.com into Telemetro)
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	I see the usual music/general RS (Billboard, Rolling Stone, El Pais). Will AGF on the other sources, such as the news network ones.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Let's wait for FlyingAce's comments.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Eh, it just goes above the bare minimum, but I am certain we can go further than this. For example, we have a general idea of the lyrics' tone and message, but not enough details on how this is illustrated. Anything in reliable sources about Shakira going to the beach as an escapism from the world's problems? Or about the chorus which emphasizes that "time flies when things are going well" ?
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Good for the most part, but I don't see how the details about the Fender PJ bass are worth mentioning.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Heavily recommend rewording "showcasing Shakira at her best and for acting as a return to her rock roots and being an homage to her 90s music." "at her best" is worded as though it were a fact. I have so many more to say about the critical reception section in general; see here.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	No audio or visual media on this article, so the criteria don't apply.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.

To help with checking for plagiarism, source-text integrity, and close paraphrasing, I have enlisted the help of @FlyingAce, a native Spanish speaker who has graciously accepted the offer offwiki (through WP:DISCORD). Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 02:29, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For her reference (ref numbers are from this version)

2
3
9
10
13
21
24
31

@1arch and PSA: Hi! As one of those "old-time fans" mentioned in the article (pretty sure I had Pies Descalzos in cassette), I'm glad to help with this review. Below my observations:

2, 3 – no issues here, they both cover what is stated in the article; just noting that they are pretty much the same (3 is a video of the interview mentioned in the last paragraph of the Background section, and 2 is a written report on that same interview)
9 – "how certain life experiences can impact people's emotions" strikes me as too literal a translation of "cómo algunos aspectos de la vida afectan emocionalmente a las personas"; consider paraphrasing
10 – source covers what is stated in the article; since this sentence is mostly quoting Shakira, close translation is not much of an issue
13 – source covers what is stated in the article
21 – "being in company of your loved ones" is a literal translation of "estar (...) en compañía de quienes se quiere"; consider paraphrasing
24 – the source states that Shakira did sing the song at the Times Square concert, but it doesn't state that it was the first time this song was performed live
31 – source covers what is stated in the article; like source 10, it's mostly quotes so the close translation is not much of an issue

Also, one observation on source 14, which is supporting 'predicted that the phrase "cómo dónde y cuándo" will "stick around' – my read is that they're stating the phrase that will stick around is "life is a b***", rather than the title of the song.

Hope this helps, let me know if further clarification is needed :) –FlyingAce^✈hello 05:25, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this, @FlyingAce :) with the spotchecks done, I think I'm going to put this nomination on hold. The critical reception section should be fairly unchallenging to overhaul once WP:RECEPTION has been fully absorbed, and the rest are very actionable suggestions. I will give the nominator the usual seven days to respond. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 07:33, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose stuff

Primarily based on concision and grammar, but also clarity and focus. Comments may intersect with ones about other criteria.

Normally I order my comments based on the order of the article's sections, but addressing the issues with the article's reception section is high-priority IMO, so I felt like I had to open with this first.
- Most of the sentences on the critical reception section are not really critical commentary. They merely chronicle the journalism-ey ways in which the song's lyrics and music were described. The actual commentary on what makes the song good or bad or effective or w/e is sparse. To demonstrate, the entire second paragraph is composed of five separate publications saying it was reminiscent of her '90s era but in different creative flavors. The closest thing there that comes to praise is "stellar return to her rock roots" and "powerful vocals". We need more of this and less of empty quotations like "back to basics" or "moody rockera".
- This section overall needs more improvement at summarizing the critical consensus, and I don't think it properly shows how critics said the song "showcased Shakira at her best" (where are the sources that say this, by the way?) I heavily implore you to look at WP:RECEPTION for guidance on writing an effective critical reception section.
  - Right now, it is composed of a bunch of quotations hastily stringed together to form a paragraph, alongside monotonous sentence structures and varied "said" verbs (elegant variation). Paraphrase wherever possible. Consolidate/summarize recurring comments about the song so you do not have to repeat those details and fall into the trap of the "A said B, X said Y" formula. Do not present opinions as fact (e.g. as mentioned earlier, "showcasing Shakira at her best").

Anyway, back to the other stuff.

No need to link Colombia per MOS:GEOLINK
Instead of "as a part of Shakira's twelfth studio album", how about "as a track on Shakira's twelfth studio album"? We have ambiguity with this sentence; "part of" can mean "a single from," in which case the album release year won't always align with the song's.
I doubt the following details are relevant; if you disagree, feel free to explain why:
- the quotebox in the background section
- the sentence "Based on the snippet alone, La KeBuena Hidalgo 106.7 FM radio station predicted that the phrase "cómo dónde y cuándo" will 'stick around'."
- the sentence "The song marked the first time of him working with Shakira, a feature hailed as 'unmissable' by Reporte Confidencial. In addition to Servando, two other composers of the song, Daniel Rondón and Rafael Rodríguez, are Venezuelan"
- the sentence about the audience applauding. I'm pretty sure that's what usually happens when A-listers introduce a song before performing it live.
- the sentence about the Fender PJ bass
Three things about this part of the article " 'Cómo Dónde y Cuándo' was initially revealed on 29 February 2024, when Shakira unveiled the tracklist of her twelfth studio album Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran. Her first album in seven years, she described the writing process of the album's songs..."
- Might wanna mention this is the sixth track of the album since the article mentions the unveiling of the album tracklist
- "Her first album in seven years, she described" implies that Shakira is the first album in seven years, which is not the case of course.
- Try to word the second sentence in a way that focuses on the song rather than the album. Maybe rewrite it as "On 29 February 2024, Shakira unveiled the tracklist of her twelfth studio album Las Mujeres Ya No Lloran, her first album in seven years. The album's sixth track is titled 'Cómo Dónde y Cuándo', and she described the writing process for it and the other songs..."
"one of the rockiest songs on the album" is paraphrasable. Limit quotations to whenever there's no other way to make the point.
"discussed the creative process he went through with Shakira and the other songwriters to create the song" somewhat redundant. Perhaps shorten to "discussed the origins of the song" ?
"it explores themes of love and optimism ... to the future with optimism" redundant
Is there anything more we can say about the lyrics? In this case using quotations would make sense this time; they shoud help with illustrating what parts of the song demonstrate what theme, tone, message, and so on.
"performed 'Cómo Dónde y Cuándo' live for the first time at..." shorten to "debuted 'Cómo Dónde y Cuándo' live at..."
"not enough people were giving the song the recognition it deserved" what song? "Cómo" or "Sale el Sol" ?

That's all from me so far, @1arch. I know the length of my list of comments looks daunting, and this may be scary as someone new to nominating for GA. I extend my apologies if that is the case. Please don't worry though, as I want to make sure we can pass this review and everything goes as smoothly as possible. If you have clarifications or objections about a recommendation I made, or if you need help with how to rewrite one part of the article, I am just one ping away. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 04:30, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, but since there has been no response within the seven days since this was put on hold, I would have to fail this GAN. I note that the nominator has not edited on enwiki since September 27, 2024. @1arch, once you have addressed every comment here outside of GAN, you are free to renominate. Once again, thank you to @FlyingAce for helping with the Spanish-language spotchecks. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 07:34, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.