Talk:Blood and Black Lace

Blood and Black Lace has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 25, 2020. (Reviewed version).

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Citation and Expansion

This article is incomplete and some information is missing important citations. Considering how important (not to mention influential) the film is it is kind of sad to see that this article is not fully developed or properly sourced. Unsourced information should either be given proper citations or deleted. Some sections do require significant expansion, these sections include the production, release and receptions sections. The Production section needs to be expanded in more detail with more sources given for its information. The release section needs to have more detailed information on the film's theatrical release including the film's box office and home media releases. The reception section also requires significant expansion, I have already reorganized this to reflect the film's initial critical response and its later more positive response, and will need more reviews from notable critics. There should be a section that details the film's legacy which should include the film's influence, references in popular culture, references in other media, and films inspired by it. All of these changes and additions need to occur in order for this article to meet Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards of a well developed and properly sourced article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:32, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References to Add

Due to the sad state of underdevelopment of this article, I've decided to include here a list of literary references that can be added to the article. They can be added either by myself or someone else, but whoever does this will need include the comment added next to the reference they have included in the article.

Baschiera, Stefano; Hunter, Russ (2016). Italian Horror Cinema. Edinburgh University Press. ISBN 978-0-7486-9352-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Curti, Roberto (May 2019). Blood and Black Lace. Auteur Publishing. ISBN 978-1-911325-93-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Curti, Roberto (11 September 2017). Italian Gothic Horror Films, 1970-1979. McFarland. ISBN 978-1-4766-2960-5. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Curti, Roberto (28 September 2013). Italian Crime Filmography, 1968-1980. McFarland. ISBN 978-1-4766-1208-9. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Harper, Jim (2004). Legacy of Blood: A Comprehensive Guide to Slasher Movies. Critical Vision. ISBN 978-1-900486-39-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Hughes, Howard (30 April 2011). Cinema Italiano: The Complete Guide from Classics to Cult. I.B.Tauris. ISBN 978-0-85773-044-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Howarth, Troy (2002). The Haunted World of Mario Bava. BearManor Media. GGKEY:X5Q62N9EWKC. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Koven, Mikel J. (2 October 2006). La Dolce Morte: Vernacular Cinema and the Italian Giallo Film. Scarecrow Press. ISBN 978-1-4616-6416-1. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Lucas, Tim (2007). Mario Bava: All the Colors of the Dark. Video Watchdog. ISBN 978-0-9633756-1-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Luther-Smith, Adrian (1999). Blood and Black Lace. Stray Cat Publishing Limited. ISBN 978-0-9533261-1-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Maberry, Jonathan (1 September 2008). Zombie CSU. Kensington. ISBN 978-0-8065-3461-9. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
McCallum, Lawrence (1998). Italian Horror Films of the 1960s: A Critical Catalog of 62 Chillers. McFarland & Company. ISBN 978-0-7864-0435-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Olney, Ian (2013). Euro Horror: Classic European Horror Cinema in Contemporary American Culture. Indiana University Press. ISBN 0-253-00648-1. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Schneider, Steven Jay (21 May 2007). 100 European Horror Films. British Film Institute. ISBN 978-1-84457-164-2. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Weaver, Tom (19 February 2003). Double Feature Creature Attack: A Monster Merger of Two More Volumes of Classic Interviews. McFarland. ISBN 978-0-7864-8215-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
Zinoman, Jason (4 July 2012). Shock Value. Gerald Duckworth & Co. ISBN 978-0-7156-4384-6. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dubbed voice in hospital scene?

Listening to the voice of Melody Patterson’s character through the whole of the hospital scene in the beginning (the print that Comet TV has) I heard June Foray’s voice dubbed over her lines. The lip movements seem a bit off as well.

The rest of the movie uses Patterson’s voice. Is there anyone that can verify this? My suspicion is there was some problem with the sound in the room used, and they need to dub and June was handy. Crow de Feet (talk) 16:07, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Language

As per a discussion on my talk page, I figured I'd continue it here. Tim Lucas states the films script was written in English and the cast spoke English on set. Another editor has commented that it should change as few other sources discuss this. I'd suggest we don't. I haven't read deep into the production of this film specifically, but I believe we should stick to sources. Andrzejbanas (talk) 11:01, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the link for discussion. --Serols (talk) 07:28, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

September 2020 expansion

Hello all. I've basically re-written the entire article while trying to include the relevant cited information from the previous version. If there are any questions/comments, I'll be happy to answer them soon. Thanks! Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:29, 18 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Blood and Black Lace/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gerald Waldo Luis (talk · contribs) 14:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So... I will be reviewing this article. Gerald WL 14:27, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead and infobox

Add alt text to the film poster? Gerald WL 14:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In the prose, the Italian title is "6 donne per l'assassino," but the poster says "Sei donne per l'assassino." Mind addressing? Also I suggest adding a native name module in the infobox. Gerald WL 14:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Later in the prose, it is specified that the onscreen title uses 6, while some of the promotional materials use Sei. I can make the changes you've also suggested. PatTheMoron (talk) 00:36, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link principal photography and Rome? Gerald WL 14:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link popular fiction? Gerald WL 14:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

"That night, Nicole drives to an antique store to supply to Franco Scalo, the store's owner and her lover, with cocaine." Wa-wa-wa-wait... so Nicole goes to an antique store to "supply"... cocaine? What do you mean by "supply" and how is "cocaine" in an antique store... Gerald WL 10:10, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, it does seem abrupt, but it is established earlier in the film that Franco (the antique dealer and Nicole's boyfriend) is a coke user, and that she joins in on his addition. She's visiting him to give him some more of the stuff... could the sentence be worded better, or should the context be put a bit earlier in the summary? PatTheMoron (talk) 12:52, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  PatTheMoron, if I'm reading it right, Franco is the coke user and not the antique store selling cocaine or stuff like that. Now I can see how I got confused. Is the fact that Nicole "drives to the store" important? If no, I suggest just saying that Nicole meets Franco to supply him with cocaine. Gerald WL 15:52, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - In the film, the killer uses Nicole's car as a getaway vehicle (after triggering its car alarm) and then abandons it - it comes up as a key bit of evidence in the film, but since it isn't really necessary to state in the summary, I could remove it. PatTheMoron (talk) 22:21, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    PatTheMoron, I dived deep into this by borrowing an DVD of this from a friend of mine and watch it myself. I can't really understand the movie due to its fast dialogue, but I see that the investigation on the car alarm does no contribution further to the story. It's seemingly just an aspect of the investigation. I'm sure you understand the movie than I do, so you know what's important and what's not. Gerald WL 07:54, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - If you take a look at the current version, I've removed all references to the car, and expanded a little on Scalo's character in a manner that hopefully reads clearer than the earlier version. And I hope you enjoyed the movie, it's one of my personal favourites! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      PatTheMoron, re-read it, seem to flow it well now. The first Italian movie, and I'm impressed. Not on my grand list, but can see how it contributes to the thriller genre. Peggy reminds me of myself when I was a crybaby kid. My favorite moment is when the film ends with the text "FINE." I thought, Okay? Gerald WL 15:14, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cast

Link Arrow Video and Blu-ray? Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background and style

Link West Germany? Gerald WL 10:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"...a film genre called krimis, murder mystery films inspired by the works of Edgar Wallace, became popular in the early 1960s, with the first being 1959's Der Frosch mit der Maske (transl. The Frog with the Mask)." Suggest bracketing "murder mystery films inspired by the works of Edgar Wallace" instead of comma-ing it, as there's too much commas in the sentence. Just doesn't flow well IMO. Gerald WL 10:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link Italian cinema? Gerald WL 10:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"1959's Der Frosch mit der Maske (transl. The Frog with the Mask)" Suggest putting single apostrophe (') in The Frog with the Mask. Similar to other "transl"-s throughout the article. Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Link eroticism? Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-production

Reiner and Dantes were late additions to the cast, as they took over roles initially intended for Gustavo De Nardo and Yoko Tani respectively." Suggest adding comma, to be "...for Gustavo De Nardo and Yoko Tani, respectively." Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"they would be paid in full at the end of production but never received their salaries." Suggest adding comma, to be "...at the end of the production, but never received their salaries." Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Production

Suggest changing subsection name to "Filming". Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"When actors asked to do fight scenes"-- maybe "When actors were asked to do fight scenes"? Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed the wording so it's clearer that it was the actors themselves requesting to do those scenes. PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Wtf so tragic lol. Gerald WL 16:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contemporary

""Whit." of Variety"-- why in quotations? Gerald WL 17:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's an alias. PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah early Variety reviews usually credit people whit names that aren't full names. From my work, they are credited from short forms of their full names but that's pure speculation. Names are often things like "Lor." or "Whit.". As it's not clear if these are real people ore pseudonymn's or what, I've left them as they are credited. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:29, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retrospective

"voted number 85 on "The 100 Scariest Movie Moments""-- should it be italicized instead of being quoted? Gerald WL 17:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Legacy

Link masturbation? Gerald WL 17:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Done! PatTheMoron (talk) 12:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  And that's all I have to comment about its legacy.^[FBDB] Gerald WL 15:18, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Citations

All citations are good, I rescued some of them to disclaim. One thing I'll note is that there are some citations placed at the same place, i.e. "Marriage is the reason of divorce.[1][2]" I don't mind such, but if there's a way to relocate the citations after what they specifically talked, and if it is space-efficient, I recommend relocating. This is only valid if, as I said, it doesn't take vague bytes. Gerald WL 10:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried to go through this, and clean it up in some sections. The only one that remains is the one talking about Quentin Tarantino's home video label, but that sentence is so short, I think it's better to have them all at the end, otherwise, it's like we are hiccuping citaitons between every third or fourth word. :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:56, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LOTS of repetitive citations, i.e. "Momma can't eat chocolate.[1] Oh and strawberries.[1]" Please remove the early mentions of the citations, i.e. "Momma can't eat chocolate. Oh and stawberries.[1]" Gerald WL 11:05, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and cleaned these up. Is it acceptable now @Gerald Waldo Luis:? :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:56, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For "Hafidason, Almar", should it be BBC Online? Gerald WL 17:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The site itself just says BBC, and I don't see a mention of it being called BBC Online on that site, so I've left it as BBC. I don't think it's too serious of a deal but am happy to change it to either if someone could clarify that. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:35, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Andrzejbanas, that reference supports the claim on BBC Online's review about the film, so I thought it should be BBC Online in the cite too. Feel free either tho, I think they're both the same, so. Gerald WL 15:16, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

I think it has passed the GA criteria. I did an archive of sources days ago, but it doesn't archive all sources: R1, R58; S1, S4, S5. Mind archiving them? Gerald WL 15:22, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing the archiveURLs. I believe i've gone through the rest now @Gerald Waldo Luis: ! :) Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:55, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Andrzejbanas, "Hafidason, Almar" has not. Just that one left. Gerald WL 15:57, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good eye! Done now. Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:05, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Andrzejbanas, and it's fully passed from there. Gerald WL 16:54, 25 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.