Talk:Bishop's Palace, Wells

Bishop's Palace, Wells has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: February 3, 2014. (Reviewed version).

Somerset Mid‑importance

	Somerset portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somerset, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Somerset on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomersetWikipedia:WikiProject SomersetTemplate:WikiProject SomersetSomerset articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Historic sites

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Historic sites, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of historic sites on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Historic sitesWikipedia:WikiProject Historic sitesTemplate:WikiProject Historic sitesHistoric sites articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Architecture: Historic houses Mid‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Historic houses task force (assessed as Low-importance).

A fact from Bishop's Palace, Wells appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 November 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Mute Swans ring for lunch at the Bishop's Palace in Wells, UK?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/November.

Wikipedia

Comments

Not sure about this sentnce:

The palace was originally surrounded by a medieval deer park and the grounds within the walls and moat have been planted and laid out as pleasure grounds.

I think it should be split in two. It needs to be made clear at what point the grounds were laid out as pleasure grounds. Is that now, or should it read "may have been" or "were".

Sentence split. Laying out was 1820s.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Parts are" or "Part is"?

See I told you my grammar was poor - revised.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is Bishop Reginald Fitz Jocelin correct? I think it is, but there was confusion. I don't see who else it could have been.

I believe so.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"single storey" is an odd way to describe a chapel. Does this mean that it was an aiseless chapel?

This seems to have gone already.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The grounds of the palace in the 12th century included a medieval deer park. The right to form the park was granted by King John to Bishop Jocelin in 1207.

Shouldn't this be 13th-century?

Changed.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Amandajm (talk) 00:18, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rodw, can you please check my changes to the Bishop's Eye carefully please. It needs local knowledge. Amandajm (talk) 02:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all changes & comments - seem fine to me.— Rod ^talk 08:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Rodw!

Amandajm (talk) 12:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Bishop's Palace, Wells/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rosiestep (talk · contribs) 14:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this one within the week. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:05, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

Some of this review includes suggested improvements, not required under WP:WIAGA.
Avoid one-sentence paragraphs - I notice at least 2 of these. Can we incorporate the information into another paragraph?

I've combined some of these.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Images - Seems like too many for an article of this size -- they feel scrunched together in places-- but perhaps re-configuring some as double-images would eliminate the issue

I'm working on a small screen at present and will return to look at the images tomorrow.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Throughout the article, there are sentences with introductory elements lacking a subsequent comma. Examples include: "When the walls were built streams were diverted..." (lead), "In the 14th century Bishop Ralph of Shrewsbury..." (History), "Every August bank holiday the moat is used for the..." (Gardens), etc.

I have attempted to tackle the examples given, but I have been accused of over use of commas so often avoid them. If there are other places where they should be included, please just point them out.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done; I've made the changes (no worries). --Rosiestep (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.— Rod ^talk 09:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Citations are discouraged in the lead section per WP:WHYCITE.

I have added a sentence with this in the main body and put the up to date reference there.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

History

Two-sentence paragraphs are just fine, occasionally, but 3 of them in one section makes for choppy reading.

I've done some - is more needed?— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The building was begun" - how about "Construction began" as 'begun' is repeated in the next sentence

Done.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"... as well as the choristers' school, a grammar school, a hospital for travellers and a chapel." - were these built on the grounds of the Bishop's Palace or nearby?

They were nearby within the liberty if the cathedral which also includes the palace.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The windows had stone tracery. Stone bosses where the supporting ribs meet on the ceiling are covered with representations of oak leaves and the Green Man. The building is seen as a fine example of the Early English architectural style." - perhaps better placed in the Architecture section?

The great hall has largely been demolished, whereas the architecture section deals with the buildings which can still be seen.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Use a comma to set off parenthetical elements - "poet laureate of the United Kingdom Andrew Motion was commissioned..."

I've tried but I've already commented about my comma issues.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done --Rosiestep (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why the comma here ("Bishop Ralph of Shrewsbury, continued the building") and why here ("Bishop Kidder, was killed")?

Removed.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"an arson attach" - attack?

Yep changed.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"These took place after the House of Lords rejected the second Reform Bill, which aimed to get rid of some of the rotten boroughs and give Britain's fast growing industrial towns such as Bristol, Manchester, Birmingham, Bradford and Leeds greater representation in the House of Commons, however there was no rioting in Wells." - clunky sentence

I've had a go at rewording this.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The water which filled the moat flowed from the springs in the grounds which had previously flowed as a small stream separating the cathedral and the palace and causing marshy ground around the site. " - flowed/flowed needs rewording

Reworded.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

wls - BBC West; Inside Out (BBC TV series)

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Current use

"It is licenced for weddings and used for conferences and meetings" - Unclear what 'It' refers to: the palace, the restaurant, or the medieval undercroft?

It's the palace (which includes the undercroft) not the restaurant.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"it was announced" - can you clarify the announcement, i.e. by the palace, the church leadership, in the newspapers?

It was announced by the Diocese - added.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Architecture

The large, centered image at the start of this section impedes reading continuity within the article. I think it's good to keep it but maybe move it.

This is the only image which shows the layout of the buildings, however I will return to looking at the images on a larger screen.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed one image and tried use the multiple image template (which I've not used before). I've not moved the large historical sketch as making it smaller would obscure the detail & putting it right aligned at the current size seems wrong.— Rod ^talk 09:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bishop's Eye

Bishop Thomas Beckington - Bishop Beckington is sufficient

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gardens

The header is a bit misleading as the section is about the grounds, which include gardens, buildings, etc.

Changed to grounds.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The water emerging from the spring is emerging " - emerging/emerging needs re-wording

Reworded.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bishop Thomas Beckington - Bishop Beckington is sufficient

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

" to the springs to act as a mirror on a still day to" - to/to/to needs re-wording

Reworded.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

wl - Silver Jubilee of Elizabeth II

Done.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"South Lawn" vs. "south lawn" - defer to the way it's spelled in the main reference

I don't understand this one. It is lower case in the article and in the Guardian ref used.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here it is capitalized: "...existing landscaping on the South Lawn...". Here it isn't: "..."tree of heaven" on the south lawn...". I think it should be lc in both instances.--Rosiestep (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks got it now.— Rod ^talk 09:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the media

Maybe add the sentence to the 'Current use' section?

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

Citing multiple pages of the same source - To avoid reference clutter, you might consider using condensed sourcing for refs such as "Rambridge, Kate (2013). The Bishop's Palace. A guide to the palace and gardens. The Palace Trust".

I will look again at all the references tomorrow.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've used sfn & added a bibliography section.— Rod ^talk 09:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Worldwdie - typo

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links

Palace and Gardens Web Site - change to "Official website"

Done— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Postcard images of Swans ringing the bell - 'Swans' should be lc

Done.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll put this on hold for the usual 7 days. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:47, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all comments which I will address in a day or two. I am currently on a Wikimedia UK "Train the trainers" workshop for the weekend.— Rod ^talk 20:44, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've tackled some of these but will get to the others tomorrow.— Rod ^talk 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all comments. I've now had a go at the outstanding ones.— Rod ^talk 09:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

Good job; looks adequate for GA. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:25, 3 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Bishop's Palace, Wells. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.wells-uk.com/local_history.php
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131202225152/http://www.bishopspalace.org.uk/attachments/The%20Palace%20Rooms.pdf to http://www.bishopspalace.org.uk/attachments/The%20Palace%20Rooms.pdf
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/03/08/bomotion108.xml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:29, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Bishop's Palace, Wells. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:03, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Bishop's Palace, Wells. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:33, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Bishop's Palace, Wells. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071031153005/http://www.somerset.gov.uk/archives/Images/Postcard2/0JON4/0JON466.jpg to http://www.somerset.gov.uk/archives/Images/Postcard2/0JON4/0JON466.jpg

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:02, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Images

There are several good images of this subject available on Wikimedia Commons which may help in illustrating the article. --Prosthetic Head (talk) 08:25, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]