Talk:Attack on Paul Pelosi/Archives/2022/October

GodIsLoving and FrenlyFrens

Both of these accounts if you check archive.org have no record of existing prior to their archival on October 28th and their takedown on October 29th.

This may be why some reporters say "attributed to".

We have verification from relatives that he ran the facebook account but do we have such verification that he ran the wordpress or the frenly site? HearthHOTS (talk) 05:26, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

This sounds a lot like original research. MasteredDegree (talk) 05:32, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

We can go with what the reporters say. We don't need excessive detail about his online posts.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:45, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Listing the September 6th date that the FrenlyFrens site was launched on Wix is not excessive detail. It shows the posts date back less than 3 months. HearthHOTS (talk) 06:13, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

RECENTISM, NOTNEWS, and bias warring is out of control on this page

This just happened 2 days ago and already we have several paragraphs of text attempting to tie the suspect to both the far right and the far left via online posts and interviews with the mother of his children. We should not be putting in information that has a high probability of being challenged in the near future. The whole section about the accuser's background should be limited to basic biographical information and a line about "his political views are unclear". Sysiphis (talk) 16:42, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I think it might be too late for this. MasteredDegree (talk) 17:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Highly reliable sources are reporting in great detail on the suspect's social media accounts and endorsement of various conspiracy theories. We summarize what reliable sources say. To refrain from summarizing a major aspect of this incident would be contrary to the neutral point of view. I agree that what Gypsy Taub said years ago is of little relevance, since she is in jail and they have been estranged since 2013. Cullen328 (talk) 17:14, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOTNEWS. If we're going to summarize, it needs to be tight. We don't need a statement on every conspiracy theory he has ever entertained. And also do not remove only one viewpoint, WP:NPOV. Sysiphis (talk) 19:28, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Sysiphis, the essay on recentism simply does not apply to an article about a notable event that happened less than 72 hours ago. An overly zealous application of RECENTISM would prevent the organic delelopment of excellent articles about current events, and Wikipedia has excelled in that since the September 11, 2001 attacks. Adding this much content to Paul Pelosi would be recentism and a violation of WP:UNDUE. As for the widely misunderstood WP:NOTNEWS, that policy language says that Wikipedia editors should not engage in original news reporting (not applicable here), that we should not cover routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities (not applicable here), that Even when an event is notable, individuals involved in it may not be. Unless news coverage of an individual goes beyond the context of a single event, our coverage of that individual should be limited to the article about that event, in proportion to their importance to the overall topic. (not a problem here - nobody is trying to write a freestanding biography of DePape), and that we should avoid celebrity gossip and trivia that would make an article resemble a celebrity diary (not applicable here). There is nothing about this article that violates NOTNEWS. Cullen328 (talk) 19:49, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Sysiphis, I don't see a lot of WP:RECENTISM either. Even if the section about DePape needs a bit of fixing, readers should still be able to see relevant facts and draw their own conclusions. WP:NPOV doesn't say we shouldn't mention anything politically involved. — Nythar (💬-🎃) 19:57, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Charges in infobox

What is the source of the charges in the infobox? I'm thinking especially of "Injuring wireless communication device". Jack Upland (talk) 06:02, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

As bizarre as the wording sounds, it's what's in the source: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-10-29/paul-pelosi-attacker-police-hammer-nancy-pelosi-san-francisco

"DePape was booked Friday afternoon on suspicion of attempted murder, first-degree burglary, assault with a deadly weapon, threatening a family member of a public official, elder abuse, battery with serious bodily injury, dissuading a witness and injuring a wireless device."

-- ToE 16:24, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

California Penal Code 591.5:

"A person who unlawfully and maliciously removes, injures, destroys, damages, or obstructs the use of any wireless communication device with the intent to prevent the use of the device to summon assistance or notify law enforcement or any public safety agency of a crime is guilty of a misdemeanor."

-- ToE 16:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

fwiw CNN also mentioned that charge but they did not elaborate upon it. My guess would be that since apparently Pelosi was at some point on the phone, the attacker must have taken it away from him and damaged it. Or else, since he is said to have hit Pelosi in the head, one of the blows may have struck the phone (?) I realize this is just my speculation based on broadcast coverage; just saying that I am quite certain it is citable if someone feels a citation is needed. Elinruby (talk) 22:01, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Gypsy Taub and BLM and LGBT support

There is consensus between Daily Mail / New York Post / Epoch Times that the photograph of the residence shared by Taub and DePape contains a Rainbow flag (LGBT) and a Black Lives Matter sign. Post reporter Shellenberger also cites a neighbor named Trish:

• Shellenberger, Michael (29 October 2022). "Pelosi attack suspect David DePape was a psychotic homeless addict". New York Post. DePape lived with a notorious local nudist in a Berkeley home, complete with a Black Lives Matter sign in the window and an LGBT rainbow flag .. "What I know about the family is that they're very radical activists," said one of DePape's neighbors, a woman who only gave her first name, Trish. "They seem very left. They are all about the Black Lives Matter movement. Gay pride. But they're very detached from reality. They have called the cops on several of the neighbors, including us, claiming that we are plotting against them. It's really weird to see that they are willing to be so aggressive toward somebody else who is also a lefty."

@Love of Corey: and @Cullen328: have reverted me both times, citing the red-backgrounded status of these sites on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources as reason to keep it out of the article.

However reliable you think these sites are in regard to speaking the truth - it at least seems notable that multiple "unreliable" newspapers are all in consensus about this very simple fact which anyone can glean by looking at the photographs.

So even if we list it with a disclaimer, I think this information should be presented in the context of "notable yet unreliable sources A, B and C say" because however Wikipedia classifies the reliability of these sources, they are certainly -noteworthy- sources whose reporting should be reported, even if with a disclaimer.

This is one of those issues which, given the obvious content in the photograph (we can read letters on a sign) speaks favorably of the sources who are reporting this fact, and unfavorably of those sources who are not. HearthHOTS (talk) 06:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

None of these sources are reliable sources for any use whatsoever on Wikipedia. DePape and Taub are estranged and Taub has been in jail for quite some time. There is no solid evidence that DePape was living in that home recently. Some reports say he may have been living in an old school bus and other reports say he might have moved to Richmond. It is likely that other people were living there, and there is no evidence that either DePape or Taub put up those flags. Cullen328 (talk) 06:21, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There is the interview with the neighbor. Do you think the reporter lied about getting that interview, or the person he interviewed is not a neighbor, or that "Trish" lied? HearthHOTS (talk) 06:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Without a RS, we don't have enough data to think anything. Feoffer (talk) 06:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I think Cullen328 makes good points. Arguably we've got too much about Taub already. According to this, On Friday, a person living at Taub’s house who declined to give his name said DePape had not been in the family picture for years.--Jack Upland (talk) 06:44, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

We use reliable sources. We don’t use unreliable sources. Ignore anything in the Daily Mail or New York Post. Bondegezou (talk) 08:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

The fact that there is a trend with all of these red-flagged "sources" sharing the same detail that actual WP:RS hasn't yet tells me this is more of a political ax-grinding than an effort to share actual news, given the potential context here. Love of Corey (talk) 17:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

At some point the Reliable Sources will piece together his history. Right now it is a jumble. I have tried to make a little sense out of it but hopefully we will have better sources soon. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

"antagonized local Democrats" source updated

The article in its current form no longer notes Scott Wiener's party. Given he was the only one DePape apparently had a problem with in his Green days, that line should probably be rewritten regardless. Lenin and McCarthy | (Complain here) 22:41, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Scott Wiener is no longer mentioned in the article. -- Beland (talk) 22:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)