Talk:Atia gens

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Proconsul of Sardinia 38 BC

Marcus Atius Balbus, the Proconsul of Sardinia is mentioned to have probably/possibly have been the son of Marcus Atius Balbus and Julia Caesaris Minor, thus an nephew of Julius Caesar. This is unlikely. If the proconsul of Sardinia was Caesar's nephew and survived him he would likely have been mentioned in his will alongside Octavian, Pinarius, and Pedius.

He could be a great-nephew of Caesar instead, being the son of another Marcus Atius Balbus, who is otherwise unattested. If this unattested Balbus predeceased Caesr and he left a son about the age of Octavius, he could have been left out of Caesar's Will. He would then have been extremely young to be named Propraetor/Proconsul any time between 43-38 BCE. However, this is also the age of the Triumvirs, with men like Octavian holding office at a very young age. If this Balbus is his first cousin, he could have been named to a position at an irregularly young age.

In my opinion, more likely, the Proconsul of Sardinia is instead a cousin of Marcus Atius Balbus, the grandfather of Augustus, or his nephew. PrincenMCA (talk) 20:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Broughton gives his name as "M. Ateius Balbus", with some uncertainty as to his name, and while he lists him among the promagistrates of 38, he does so without a definite title. He is not in PW or DGRBM, and the articles on the elder Balbus do not mention a son, which supports your hypothesis. I'm not entirely sure where the identification came from in this article, except that it does not read like something I would have typed (and I doubt I would have added him in the first place if he wasn't listed in the DGRBM, since that's where I usually begin). P Aculeius (talk) 22:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I see now that StarTrekker separated out a section for the Balbi and added some members, including the subject here. Since he's experienced with these articles, I'm sure he had a good source, though he failed to note what it was. He might be the one to ask where this identification comes from. P Aculeius (talk) 03:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PrincenMCA and P Aculeius: Hi, I'm fairly certain I came across the idea from this text by Ronald Syme. My bad for failing to reference it when editing the article. But as you point out PrincenMCA, there are arguments to be made against this proposal (tho I don't know if they have been brought up in any study so far).★Trekker (talk) 13:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your lack of references is understandable. When I began this project nearly fourteen years ago, I felt the references in the DGRBM overwhelming and had no idea how to locate any of them, or how to cite some of them intelligibly, so I was providing them as best I could only for those persons who did not (or seemed unlikely to) have articles of their own in which references could go. That probably set a bad example! I have tried to clean up older articles by providing individual references for otherwise unreferenced entries when I come across them, but evidently I had not done so here. I can add a few if need be. P Aculeius (talk) 15:11, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done some work on it, should be much better now. Found some coins of Marcus Atius Balbus at Commons, but have not added a picture yet—the one I was going to used seemed to have some questions about copyright status. I'm sure that Atia's portrait is already in her article (and if it's not, it probably should be). P Aculeius (talk) 18:01, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@StarTrekker I couldn't find any articles about the individuals either, although I have limited access to the newest journal articles.

@P Aculeius I do now see that M. Attius Balbus Pr. 44 and M. Attius Balbus Promag. Sardinia ca. 38 mentioned. Would it be possible for them to be them same person? If he is a relation of Octavian, he could have been assigned to the province after the Pact of Misenum fell apart. A former Praetor may be a likely candidate for the job. PrincenMCA (talk) 04:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not only possible, but likely—but since there could easily have been cousins with the same name (as you yourself pointed out), I think we need a source that at least suggests or implies the possibility, and right now I don't see one. Perhaps I missed something in Broughton that suggested it; I looked and didn't see anything, but I may have missed it. P Aculeius (talk) 04:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I saw a note was added which implicitly references MRR 2 p 392, though I don't know why it wasn't actually cited. I don't have my copy of MRR 3 on me but DPRR has the entry – https://romanrepublic.ac.uk/person/2849/ – and it says In the Index, delete the entry on p. 533 [ie to Ateius]; and on p. 535, emend the gentilicium Attius to Atius. The note can be safely removed. Ifly6 (talk) 05:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]