Talk:Astrid Gjertsen

A news item involving Astrid Gjertsen was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 20 June 2020.

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A fact from Astrid Gjertsen appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 12 July 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in a 2013 ranking compiled by the political editors of Verdens Gang, Astrid Gjertsen was rated the ninth-most important woman in Norwegian history?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Astrid Gjertsen.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:24, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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~~... that Astrid Gjertsen left her role as a Norwegian Minister of State after she was found to have been claiming for fraudulent taxi receipts?~~ Source: [1] is the English source for it
- ALT1:... that politician Astrid Gjertsen was once rated the ninth most important woman in Norwegian history? Source: [2] "I 2013 kåret VG henne til den niende viktigste kvinnen i norgeshistorien" ("In 2013, VG named her the ninth most important woman in Norwegian history")

Reviewed: Joshna Chinappa
Comment: Article has appeared on Recent Deaths, but still eligible for DYK

5x expanded by Joseph2302 (talk) and Jon698 (talk). Nominated by Joseph2302 (talk) at 10:42, 24 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Seems good to me. I personally think the main hook is the one to go with, as it's a pretty intriguing (and important) fact about this figure. Article is new enough (expanded very recently), well-sourced, and Earwig's Copyvio Detector picked up nothing. No NPOV issues either, since it's just a fact. Also, it's below 200 characters and supported by the cited reference, which is also used within the article. JOE BRO 64 19:07, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the taxi-receipts count there is a lot more to say and because of this the article is inaccurate. The article is very short and does not really cover her life. It needs a lot more work. regards ^ツDyveldi ^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 15:28, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dyveldi This article is over 1500 characters and meets all the criteria of DYK. You can't just stick a reject on it without discussion. If you think another hook should be suggested, then ask for it, but trying to flat out reject this article when it meets the conditions of DYK is incorrect and in my opinion ridiculous. I'm going to ask for more opinions at WT:DYK. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:37, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The "X" is clearly the wrong icon, since it is only to be used if the article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible, which is certainly not the case here. Articles at DYK are allowed to be fairly short, Start-class articles (hence the current 1500 prose character minimum), and if there is more to say about the taxi receipts, that does not make what it there inaccurate unless there are factual or NPOV issues. At the same time, significant omissions should be addressed: while she resigned her ministry, she seems to have remained in parliament for a few years afterward if the infobox is accurate, which should be noted in the text. (Did she decide not to run again? Was she dropped by her party?) Perhaps a bit more work is warranted, but a rejection out of hand is not. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:12, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are no sources I can find that say why she left parliament, but I've added a mention of her leaving parliament in 1989. I can't be expected to add information that I don't have sources on. Dyveldi could have acted constructively by helping and providing sources (if they exist? I can't find any), rather than blanket saying "it's wrong"- which appears to be based on original research since they've not provided any indication of what is "wrong" and sources for their claims. After removing the 1989 unsourced date, this article is appropriately sourced and I cannot find significant additional information. This isn't GA or FA, having an article with a correct overview and timeline of a person's main events is fine for DYK. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:43, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This: "left her role as a Norwegian Minister of State after she was found to have been claiming for fraudulent taxi receipts?" is the text I object mostly to in addition to this affair having too much space in the lead. The lead has tilted and needs a lot more work. In addition there is a lot missing in the article. The affair did lead to her resigning as a minister, but the affair was a lot more than just that. It is not possible to resign as a representative elected to Stortinget so she stayed for the term which she was elected for. She did however have a sick leave after she left the post as minister. Now I am in a reading mode and am collection sources. There is a lot of them. If you start reading this one [[3]] which was made for her 70-years birthday you will find what the prime minister who had to let her go thought of her. If you follow this link [[4]] you will find more than 17000 sources and it is a question of learning to swim in all of this without drowning in the process. To find the good and appropriate ones. If you do not like my icon, please feel free to change it. regards ^ツDyveldi ^{☯ prat} _{✉ post} 20:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I'm more than happy for people to help expand it, it's a collaborative project after all, and I want to help increase our coverage on new US/UK topics. But I'm not going to trawl through 17,000 sources in a language I don't speak. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:00, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per discussion at WT:DYK#Astrid Gjertsen, this article satisfies Rule D7. Restoring tick per Joseph2302's review. Yoninah (talk) 21:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yoninah, Joseph2302 is the nominator, not the reviewer... As you will see from my just-made post to the discussion, I have BLP concerns about the main hook; we've had hooks about a politician's failings before that have been pulled because of BLP issues. Perhaps ALT1 could be recast to make it "seven years ago" rather than an "once", which could have been in the distant past? BlueMoonset (talk) 23:30, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BlueMoonset: it's not a BLP...she died this month. Yoninah (talk) 00:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have been enlightened per WP:BDP. I've struck the first, negative hook. @Joseph2302: Would you like to run with ALT1, or suggest something else? Yoninah (talk) 12:52, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Yoninah I didn't realise that BLP still applied to people who've just died. In which case, I think ALT1 is the best hook- a politician being rated one of the most important women of all time is unusual. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Joseph2302: I agree. But looking at the article, this rating was given by a tabloid newspaper. I wish it was from a more important source. Should we name the newspaper? Also, I don't think you should talk about her conviction right there in the lead. Yoninah (talk) 15:24, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to User:7&6=thirteen, I received a translation of that newspaper source. Here is relevant text:

Astrid Gjertsen from Borøy; the consumer and administration minister in the Willoch government, is the ninth most important woman in Norwegian history. This is the opinion of political editor in VG Hanne Skartveit, Åse Kleveland, Alexandra Bech Gjørv, Karen Espelund, Kristin Clemet, Dilek Ayhan and Anne Lise Seip.

It was a bit of a jury VG has put together when in yesterday's paper and online edition they marked the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage with being voted Norway's 100 most important women.

Among the Top 10

On the impressive list of women who have left deep traces, Astrid Gjertsen is in the lead. The right-wing government minister, one of the Willoch government's most popular and titled "The open mother of society," is one of the ten most important women in Norwegian history, according to the jury.

Only three other living women; Gro Harlem Brundtland (top), Anne Enger Lahnstein and Kim Friele are in the prestigious Top 10 list.

I'm proud to be so high on the list. But then it is well deserved, says Gjertsen to VG.

How about rewriting the part in the article and the hook this way:
... that in a 2013 ranking compiled by the political editors of Verdens Gang, Astrid Gjertsen was rated the ninth most important woman in Norwegian history? Yoninah (talk) 19:58, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Joseph2302:? Yoninah (talk) 17:11, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, this slipped my mind. Yes that's fine by me- I've reworded that bit of the article, and hooks seems fine. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:17, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Restoring tick per TheJoebro64's review. Yoninah (talk) 17:22, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]