Talk:Aphrodite/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Marriages

Aphrodite broke up with Hephaestus and married Ares and Hermes instead. She gave birth to Eros, Deimos and Phobos under Ares, and Hermaphroditos under Hermes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.112.94 (talk) 00:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

False, Aphrodite never "broke up" with Hephaestus. In fact, I don't think divorces exsisted in Greece at the time. She was very unfaithful to him, but they remained married. Yes, she bore children with Ares and Hermes, and many mortals, as well, but she was still wed to Hephaestus. Zeus had married her off to Hephaestus in order to keep peace; peace would diminish if Aphrodite were to divorce Hephaestus. MelancholyPanda (talk) 23:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Under Mythology>Among the Gods, there is a line "In the Iliad, Aphrodite is the apparently unmarried consort of Ares, the god of war..." referencing pg72 of Cyrino 2010. However, after examining this page and the preceding and following pages, I see no evidence that Cyrino claims that Aphrodite is the unmarried consort of Ares in the Iliad. It is true that Aphrodite is not the wife of Hephaestus in the Iliad, but this does not make her the consort of Ares. Even if she is, the reference should be changed to something that does actually comment on this information. Somniavero (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Somniavero: Mid-way down the page she says "In the Iliad, the wife of Hephaestus is called Charis, who receives the sea goddess Thetis into their home... but in the Odyssey, as we have seen in the song of Demodocus episode, his wife is the adulterous Aphrodite..." Since the Greeks did not practice polygamy, this obviously means that Aphrodite is not the wife of Hephaestus in the Iliad. Cyrino describes scenes from the Iliad in which Aphrodite is the consort of Ares on page 50: "In Greek mythology, Aphrodite's favorite consort is Ares, god of war: in the combat scene of book 5 of the Iliad, she borrows Ares' chariot to ride back to Olympus after she is hurt (5.350-62). Later, in the Theomachia episode of book 21, when the gods are all at each other's throats, Aphrodite is quick to help a wounded Ares off the field of combat (21.416-17)." When I wrote the sentence you are describing, I must have assumed that this information was also referenced on page 72, but, apparently, I was wrong. I have now added both page numbers to the citation. --Katolophyromai (talk) 16:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

All this is true, but most people say she is the wife of either Ares or Hephaestus. Dragonlover21 (talk) 17:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Parentage

I've read that Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione. I've also heard that Aphrodite formed from the sea without the blood of Ouranus. It's opinional on which case you confirm, but perhaps we should add the debating parentage to the article? MelancholyPanda (talk) 00:04, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Aphrodite formed from the sea without the blood of Ouranus according to Hesiod (Theogony, 191-192).

Aphrodite was the daughter of Zeus and Dione according to Pseudo-Apollodorus (Bibliotheca, 1.3.1).

The birth section, as of April 2018, already discusses this. However, the sources for each are not specifically stated (instead of "Theogony, 191-192" I see "Kerényi 1951, p. 69" and I see a generic "Iliad (Book V)" which is not even correct since it does not specifically mention Zeus as father - the proper source that states Zeus and Dione as parents of Aphrodite is actually "Bibliotheca, 1.3.1)

ICE77 (talk) 20:54, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@ICE77: What do you mean "the sources for each are not specifically stated"? The article clearly states: "According to the version of her birth recounted by Hesiod in his Theogony..." If that is not an attribution to Hesiod, I do not know what is. Furthermore, the earliest source for Aphrodite as the daughter of Zeus and Dione is the Iliad. Book 5, line 370 clearly describes Dione as Aphrodite's "mother" and, in Book 20, line 105, Apollo clearly refers to Aphrodite as the "daughter of Zeus". The passage from Bibliotheca that you cite is relying on the Iliad, which is the earliest source to portray Aphrodite as the daughter of Zeus and Dione. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I have now added inline citations to the exact line numbers in both works, with links to the passages on Perseus. --Katolophyromai (talk) 21:21, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

What I meant to say was that the lines for the original passages were not given. The Theogony did not have any line numbers and the Iliad was missing line 105 from book XX. Thanks for the addition.

ICE77 (talk) 22:06, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

@ICE77: You are welcome! I apologize if my tone in my previous comments was a bit snippy; I was just a little annoyed. I am always glad to make improvements to the encyclopedia. --Katolophyromai (talk) 22:32, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

A promising source

I came across mention of this source when making some improvements to Astarte: The Origin of Aphrodite by Stephanie Budin. Capital Decisions Ltd, 2002. It looks like it covers Aphrodite's connections to Cyprus and Semitic goddesses in a lot of depth. It might be useful to anyone working on this article. A. Parrot (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2015

The term "folk etymology" is used incorrectly twice in this article. Here is the first instance: "A number of folk etymologies have been proposed through the ages" (and the phrase hyperlinks to the Wikipedia article on folk etymology). But as the folk etymology article makes clear, the term "folk etymology" does NOT have anything to do with amateur or unscientific theories about the origins of words; rather it is "a technical [term] in philology and historical linguistics, referring to the change of form in the word itself, not to any actual explicit popular analysis." People who don't understand the accurate meaning of the term "folk etymology" often use it in this mistaken way, so it is especially important that Wikipedia not promote this erroneous use. After all, a reader seeking clarification who clicks on the "folk etymology" hyperlink will find the term defined correctly in a way that shows that its use in the Aphrodite article makes no sense. It's not entirely obvious what phrase would be best used instead of "folk etymologies"; perhaps "amateur etymologies" or "unscientific etymologies" or "popular etymologies" or "unscientific theories" or something along these lines. Later in the same paragraph "folk etymology" is again used in the same incorrect way: "...the medieval Etymologicum Magnum offers a highly contrived folk etymology, deriving Aphrodite from..."

Unrelatedly, this same paragraph also ends with an ungrammatical clause: "...despite of course that the name cannot be of Macedonian origin." It is not correct English to say "despite that"; one has to say, "despite the fact that" so this clause needs to be "despite of course the fact that the name cannot be of Macedonian origin" (the placement of the "of course" is still awkward, but at least it's not ungrammatical-- better still would be "despite the fact that the name cannot of course be of Macedonian origin").

72.227.133.128 (talk) 05:31, 21 June 2015 (UTC)Benjamin Friedman

Good catch, although one could argue that the term is perhaps being folk etymologised. Kafka Liz (talk) 08:26, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Done by user above –Davey2010^Talk 02:53, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Kolias being an Surname of Aphrodite.

In various research books, and Archaeological discoveries she is called Aphrodite-Kolias. I wanted to bring this up since there is some unintended mix ups that Kolias was an distinct deity of foothills, but really is an surname. Anyone is welcome to verify this first before making the edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.51.217 (talk) 15:05, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

A Local History of Greek Polytheism: Gods, People and the Land of Aigina ... By Irene Polinskaya. That is one source I found out about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.51.217 (talk) 15:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Spellng Mistake on a Protected Page

Or should I say Typographical Inconsistancy but no one is ever going to read a subject line like that. Anyways, its on the first major paragraph which relates the various greek philosophers description of the origins of Aphrodite. Specifically, Plato, in "Symposium" which wikipedia here says was written in the year "180e". Is this some kind of mathematical calculation that readers knowing the value of the natural number have to make to determine when plato said that or is it not supposed to read "180bce".

I prefer the term BC to BCE because I am not one of you pagan heretics with your fancy descriptions of epochs, wrong beliefs about hades and naked sex orgies. I wish I was. No Im just wanker pointing out a typo. Could someone fix it.

It's not a date, as Plato had been dead for centuries by then. It's a page/paragraph number in the text of the Symposium. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:16, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2016

Mrclever2248 (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2016 (UTC) this is usually considered as cypriot mythology in Turkish it's called Afrodit

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Topher385 (talk) 14:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Self-published sources and Modern Worship of Aphrodite

These self-published sources that are being cited are adhering to wikipedia's guidelines for self-published sources, and quoting from that article: "Self-published doesn't mean a source is automatically invalid." Furthermore, "A self-published source may be used for certain claims by the author about himself, herself, or itself." These sources are describing their own practices of worship. For claims about themselves, see the guideline on that page:

1. The material is not unduly self-serving and exceptional in nature;

The quoted material is simple and describes simple acts of worship.

2. It does not involve claims about third parties;

The quoted material doesn't make any claims about other religions.

3. It does not involve claims about events not directly related to the source;

The quotes material sticks to describing its personal worship of Aphrodite.

4. There is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity;

Speaks for itself.

5. The article is not based primarily on such sources.

This is a small addendum to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 04:30, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: You seem to be missing my point. It does not make sense to cite bunch of random blogs on the internet talking about the subject; we need to be careful make sure that we are using sources with some kind of authority, especially if we resort to using self-published sources, which is already unstable ground. You keep removing the new paragraph I added using the book by Timothy Jay Alexander, who is self-published, but is referenced in one of the academic sources that is cited in the article and seems to be regarded as something of a leading figure within contemporary Hellenistic Reconstructionism. I recommend looking at the article Heathenry (new religious movement), which is currently a Featured Article. It makes use of self-published sources where necessary, but it does not just cite random people's blogs; instead, it uses sources with at least some level of notability.

Furthermore, not only are the sources cited in the passage you keep restoring of dubious authority; they also may represent individual perspectives rather than generally-held beliefs within the religion. For instance, the source from paganwiccan.about.com seems to be the author providing her personal advice on which offerings are acceptable rather than a description of which offerings practitioners of the faith usually make. --Katolophyromai (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I've reviewed the paragraph that begins "Hellenic polytheists of today celebrate their religious devotion to Aphrodite ..." I don't think any of the sources which have been offered to support the assertions being made here are adequate. Even with adequate sourceing I'm not sure these modern practices are notable enough for inclusion here. I would like some scholarly sources to help establish notability. Paul August ☎ 13:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I was not deleting that paragraph intentionally, it was just to restore the deleted information. I will stop attempting to restore the old blogs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 00:42, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: I'm going delete the paragraph I mentioned above which currently lacks sources. You can restore anything for which you can find adequate sources. Paul August ☎ 01:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Modern altar to Aphrodite image?

@Fabianzzz: I am guessing by your edit history that you are a practitioner of Hellenistic Reconstructionism. Would you happen to be able to upload a photograph of an altar to Aphrodite to Wikimedia Commons to use in the final section of the article? I have seen images of altars to her on the internet, but I cannot find any in the public domain. I found an image of an altar dedicated to Athena and Apollo for the article Athena and I thought it made a very nice addition. I was thinking that, since Aphrodite is such a popular goddess for veneration, it might be useful to include an image of an altar to her, or some sort of ceremony honoring her, perhaps. Obviously, the photograph would have to be one that you take/took yourself, or one that someone else has volunteered. I am asking you because I thought that, if I was going to find such an image, you would be the best person to ask. --Katolophyromai (talk) 04:10, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

You guess correctly. Dionysus is the only deity I maintain a shrine for, but I'll ask in some circles I travel in to see if anyone has anything! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 04:50, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

@Fabianzzz: That sounds excellent. I had thought you might worship Aphrodite also based on your activity on this page, but I suppose not. The picture does not necessarily have to be of an altar, but I think it would be great to have some kind of image that illustrates Aphrodite's modern worship. It could be of a ritual or a worship service of some kind. Once again, if you cannot find any pictures, that is perfectly fine, and I do not want to force you to upload anything if you do not want to; I just thought it might be a useful addition to the article. I am trying to bring this article up to "Good Article" status, like I already did with the article Athena. --Katolophyromai (talk) 10:06, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

I do worship her, however I worship numerous deities and am unable to maintain shrines for them all. There is a priestess of Aphrodite, Laurelei Black, here is her contact info. She is fundraising for a public shrine to the goddess, perhaps she could be of assistance? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 20:31, 17 January 2018 (UTC)