Talk:Rape during the Vietnam War

United States Marines

"sixteen by United States Marines resulted in court-martial convictions"

I wasn't aware that Marines could be punished for raping civilians. The article on Sexual assault in the United States military focuses of rapes of active military personnel by their fellow soldiers and officers. Should the military's history of sexual violence be covered as background information? Dimadick (talk) 11:30, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 14:01, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that a U.S. soldier who killed a Vietnamese woman after raping her was dubbed a "double veteran"? Source:Rotman, Deborah L.; Savulis, Ellen-Rose (2003). Shared Spaces and Divided Places: Material Dimensions of Gender Relations and the American Historical Landscape. Univ. of Tennessee Press. ISBN 978-1-57233-234-8. Retrieved 2 September 2022.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eddie Keenan

Created by Mhhossein (talk). Self-nominated at 13:37, 8 September 2022 (UTC).

• Note: It has been suggested that this article be merged into existing article on Rape during the Vietnam War. Cbl62 (talk) 23:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Cbl62: The so-called "existing" article was created just after my new article and its content is mostly what I originally used for creating American rape of Vietnamese women. Thanks. --Mhhossein ^talk 11:41, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: Regardless, the discussion will need to be resolved first. In the meantime, this nom can stay open, just "on hold". –LordPeterII (talk) 20:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Nomination on hold while merge discussion continues. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:28, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: The merger discussion has ended with the consensus on merging the page into a broader article which is also new enough for the DYK purpose. What should be done now? --Mhhossein ^talk 06:27, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Mhhossein, I've not run into this before, where the articles being merged were started around the same time, both were substantial, and the one nominated for DYK was older (September 2 vs. September 5) though it wasn't the one that survived. Unfortunately, the article histories haven't also been merged, so it's hard to tell how much of the original (nominated) article found its way into the surviving article—though I'm not sure whether that's germane. Why don't you ask at WT:DYK, pointing out that your article was begun three days before the one it ultimately was merged into, and that article wasn't nominated. It might (or might not) be helpful to link to the article history of your article (here), since it takes a fair amount of effort to even find it at this point. Best of luck! BlueMoonset (talk) 14:49, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you BlueMoonset. I'll ask at WT:DYK. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:45, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

my view is that this nomination should probably be closed, as its constituent article is now a redirect; no prejudice against a nomination of the merge target. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 08:01, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: I am not sure why there should be a separate nomination for this DYK, since the nominated hook can be found in Rape during the Vietnam War. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:14, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: not ideally how I'd do it, but I suppose there's nothing wrong with that :) I've updated the credits and hook accordingly. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 17:34, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

reviewer needed. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 17:34, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

• @Mhhossein: im going to review this article. However, I need to see a citation for your hook before I proceed. Onegreatjoke (talk) 19:09, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Onegreatjoke:, thanks for your interest. The citation is added now. --Mhhossein ^talk 03:08, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Mhhossein: Good and very important article. Though just to tell you. The bold link for the hook links to the redirect "Rape in the Vietnam War" rather than the article "Rape during the Vietnam War". Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:26, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Onegreatjoke: Nice to see you liked it. The RD issue is resolved now. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:03, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Source please

@Thelordofsword: Do you have a reliable source for your recent addition? --Mhhossein ^talk 06:24, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Rape by the Viet Cong, North Vietnamese, etc

This article concentrates only on rape carried out by US and South Korean personnel. Is there any evidence for it being used as a tactic by the North Vietnamese? I suspect it wasn't as prevalent, but I find it hard to believe that the soldiers on the other side never indulged in rape - if so, they'd probably be the only large army in history never to have done so. OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 16:20, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree, it would be incredibly naïve to think rapes weren't perpetrated by members of all parties to the conflict, just like every other sizable conflict or war throughout human history. With regard to NVA and VC military personnel, however, there just isn't much available in the open source content to built content from. One would need to conduct dedicated research to develop it, and I doubt the national government would have much interest in encouraging that. Nonetheless, there is some information in this article if you look at the third paragraph in the "In Media" section, you'll find Le Ly Hayslip wrote about her experience being raped by VC soldiers in her memoir When Heaven and Earth Changed Places. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 17:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Bahnsen memoir

@Mhhossein, I saw the edit about the Bahnsen memoir with the edit summary about it providing "context for the astute reader," but I was unable to follow the logic. Can you articulate the context and how that fits into the media section? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 22:19, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

@AzureCitizen: Thanks for the TP discussion, I was actually suggesting that the sexual affairs of the US troops can provide a context for understanding the atmosphere at the time. To be meticulous, the memoir is not on rape issues but still portrays some sort of sexual freedom for the U.S. soldiers in Vietnam. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:41, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I took a break from Wikipedia for couple days and while away, I gave this some thought, but I think consensual sexual freedoms are really outside the scope of rape in this article and the extreme violence of it. The way this has been included at the tail end as an off-hand experiential reference sticks out when all the other books and movie content is about rape. As a side note, did you know that after she died, Bahnsen and Thach Thi Hung's son ended up moving to the United States and reuniting with Bahnsen there? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 12:54, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@AzureCitizen: Ah, ok. I have no objection against removing the portion regarding the Bahnsen memoir, though I thought it could enrich the section in the way I explained. Also thanks for sharing the note regarding Bahnsen and Hung's son reunion, it was interesting. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:24, 3 November 2022 (UTC)