Talk:Anti-African sentiment

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

No consensus, 4 March 2024, to Anti-black sentiment, see discussion.
Moved, 13 May 2024, from Afrophobia to Anti-African sentiment, see discussion.

Superfluous

what's the difference between this page and Negrophobia. Shouldn't one be deleted?

The difference is stated in the Overview section: "Afrophobia is mainly a cultural phenomenon. It pertains to the various traditions and peoples of Africa, irrespective of racial origin.[1] As such, Afrophobia is distinct from the historical racial phenomenon Negrophobia, which is a contempt for negro peoples specifically.[2]" Ratemonth (talk) 00:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So few sources cited

I am amazed at how few sources are cited for this article! Some editors that think this article is important should work to find sources. The article in its current form falls far short of Wikipedia standards. Pete unseth (talk) 20:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"far short of Wikipedia standards" All stub articles are below standards. That is why they are stubs. Dimadick (talk) 00:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Those who think the current title is faulty should perhaps clarify the scope of the article before requesting another RM. (non-admin closure) —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afrophobia → Anti-black sentiment – Plan right now is to rename this one first, then merge the other one into this one, with a section on the name.
Move per norm Anti-x sentminent in
Anti-black sentiment in the United States
Anti-Korean sentiment
Anti-German sentiment
Anti-Mexican sentiment
Anti-Brazilian sentiment
Anti-British sentiment
Anti-Asian sentiment
Anti-Christian sentiment
DarmaniLink (talk) 12:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 04:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Sennecaster (Chat) 02:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging participants in the previous RM in Talk:Negrophobia @Espirit15d @Necrothesp @Redslash DarmaniLink (talk) 12:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Africa has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject African diaspora has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Discrimination has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Is there any reason "black" is kept in lower case? Shouldn't it be "Anti-Black sentiment"? Also, I'm a little unclear on the scope of this article. The article doesn't really seem to restrict it to a particular "Black" phenotype, but says "African" generally. So that would include, say, prejudice against Algerians in France, whereas "Anti-Black" would exclude that. Walrasiad (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- No. See MOS:RACECAPS. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment How about "Anti-African sentiment"? Dympies (talk) 13:29, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- This isn't just about Africans, though, but people of "African" descent (many of them long, long ago). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:08, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - But the word "black" is only going to reduce our scope further. Dympies (talk) 01:41, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - As is the word "African"! -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:22, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving to Anti-Black sentiment (uppercase B per MOS:RACECAPS) - Afrophobia seems outdated and this is definitely more recognizable. As somebody from the 90's who associates "Afro" only with the hairstyle, especially so. ASUKITE 14:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support moving to "Anti-Black sentiment" per discussion above. Dympies (talk) 06:55, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Move to 'Anti-African sentiment'. In my view the African diaspora are people of African descent and are therefore a subset of African, in the same way the Welsh diaspora in Patagonia are still Welsh (I suppose members of the African diaspora will differ on how much they identify with Africa/a particular African society). If you think it should be 'anti-black sentiment' then it might as well be merged with Anti-black racism. The point is that this is about negative views of African nations and African people/societies (of which African-American communities are a part of). It is not about the individual. Please be wary of Americanising this. There is no other page that deals with anti-African racism specifically. Please don’t repurpose this. Alexanderkowal (talk) 20:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I'm not sure why MOS:RACECAPS is being cited as a reason to capitalise, since it says either is acceptable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:14, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: There's a consensus to move, but no consensus for any particular title yet. Sennecaster (Chat) 02:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Reading the article, this is definitely not about the Black phenotype. Would support move to "Anti-African sentiment". Walrasiad (talk) 08:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Anti-Black sentiments. It is quite clear from this article that this is specifically referring to Black Africans and Black people in the African Diaspora, although the article needs work. Using African rather than Black would defeat the whole purpose of this article because you can be non-Black and African, just as you can be English and non-White. Further, Black is used as a noun for a group of people here, and should be capitalise.Tamsier (talk) 23:23, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: I would suggest merging Negrophobia to this article and renaming this article to Anti-Black sentiments. The Negrophobia article is very offensive and out if date.Tamsier (talk) 23:30, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamsier what’s the difference between anti-black sentiment and Anti-black racism? The lede is very clearly about Africa Alexanderkowal (talk) 09:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you notice, the Anti-Black racism points to Negrophobia (what I was referring to above). The negative sentiments are negative views held about Black people simply because of their race. Racism is the direct actions emanating from those negative sentiments that cause harm to Black people e.g., physically, financially, legally, socially, etc. Tamsier (talk) 11:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamsier agreed but this article is not about racism towards individuals, but rather societies.

‘’…is prejudice, hostility, discrimination, or racism towards people and cultures of Africa and the African diaspora.’’

Please read my above comment. This article is more in line with Anti-European sentiment or Anti-Indian sentiment. It is not necessarily about the colour of their skin, that is more of a correlation. For instance, the academic racism in the 19th/20th centuries about African societies would not fit the Negrophobia article. Also, racism towards Boers would fit here.

I do think this article is poorly written and could be considerably improved by detailing historical perceptions of Africa with relevant context. Alexanderkowal (talk) 12:52, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamsier the Negrophobia article covers sentiment and is not focussed on actions.

‘’… is characterized by a fear, hatred, discrimination or extreme aversion to Black people and Cape Colouredsor Coloureds, and Black culture worldwide.’’

Alexanderkowal (talk) 12:54, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, I change my vote to: Move to Anti-African sentiments. Both articles need work, and the Negrophobia article really needs to be renamed to Anti-Black sentiments. It is very offensive and out of date term. The lead of that article also focuses too much on South Africa's coloured/mixed-race people rather than Black people.Tamsier (talk) 05:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamsier agreed, don’t think I’ve ever seen that term used myself, it’s also not in the line with the naming of other similar articles. Anti-black racism/sentiment is so much more than fear of black people. Maybe start an RfC on that page? Alexanderkowal (talk) 07:59, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamsier the cause of this RfC comes from Talk:Negrophobia so if this article is moved to Anti-African sentiment then then I think Negrophobia should be moved to Anti-black sentiment where there’ll be a section on negrophobia Alexanderkowal (talk) 08:03, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I concur provided that the Black in Anti-Black sentiments" is capitalised to Anti-Black sentiments. The term Black is used as a noun here to describe a group of people for example, Africans, Senegalese, Gambians, Nigerians, Haitians, the English, French, etc. Tamsier (talk) 11:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Anderkowal & Tamsier's revised proposal. This article should be "Anti-African sentiment" and Negrophobia should be "Anti-Black sentiment. They should remain separate articles though. Walrasiad (talk) 07:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested closure for this at Wikipedia:Closure requests. Natg 19 (talk) 05:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 13 May 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) Kiwiz1338 (talk) 01:55, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Afrophobia → Anti-African sentiment – I believe this article to be about negative sentiment towards African peoples and societies, including those of the African diaspora, and this move would be in line with anti-European sentiment and anti-Asian sentiment. To be clear, I don't think this article is not about the colour of anyone's skin nor the individual, and racism towards Boers would be relevant here. Alexanderkowal (talk) 07:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support as per prior discussion. Walrasiad (talk) 17:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.