Talk:2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine

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International relations Mid‑importance

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United States: Presidents Mid‑importance

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Ukraine High‑importance

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Requested merge, 2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine → 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Not moved, 01 March 2023, discussion

On 27 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Biden–Zelenskyy meeting. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Notability

Subject appears to fail WP:EVENT. No indication of any long term significance. The visit was basically a photo-op. I am assuming good faith but people really should read WP:DELAY before rushing to create articles about the latest news bulletin. Probably should be merged either into the article about the war or Presidency of Joe Biden. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:55, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Probably to the article about the war, 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. I see that there is already a merge request. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:10, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would not rush with this decision; per NYTimes "Since Abraham Lincoln rode to the front lines outside Washington to watch battles in Northern Virginia during the Civil War, no president has gotten close to combat," i.e. no U.S. president since then has gone to area not controlled by the U.S. military, even if it was a war zone like Iraq or Afghanistan. Considering that Biden and Putin will each be delivering a speech tomorrow, and that Russia was kept in the dark about the trip until the very last minute, this trip feels very different from any prior ones during this conflict and might prove much more consequential. Perhaps I'd wait a bit before merging. Ppt91 ^talk 02:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This should be merged into the general article on the war - or one of them. Not notable in itself. Just a passing comment is all this is due. HammerFilmFan (talk) 03:53, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

did you see this quote ?

"Putin thought Ukraine was weak and the West was divided. As you

know, Mr. President, I said to you at the beginning, he’s counting on

us not sticking together. He was counting on the inability to keep NATO

united. He was counting on us not to be able to bring in others on the

side of Ukraine. He thought he could outlast us. I don’t think

he’s thinking that right now."

--Joe Biden

<https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joe_Biden> 147.234.64.54 (talk) 11:25, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and develop I understand the motivation to merge and usually I don't see the point of "visit-articles". This one is the exception, as the visit is being described as exceptional by a number of good WP:RS and it certainly isn't usual for the sitting US president to visit a capital in a country at war. Media coverage is also very extensive. So the article seems notable in its own right. Jeppiz (talk) 16:10, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it fails notability. Let's see how the merge discussion goes before taking it to AfD. There is information here that should get a mention on Wikipedia but it fails notability for an article. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 15:30, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Biden's visit marked the first time that a sitting U.S. President has traveled to an active conflict zone not controlled by the American military since at least 1864" Seems pretty notable... BogLogs (talk) 00:19, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For an article? Fails WP:SUSTAINED. Wikipedia is a lagging indicator of notability. A clear case of recentism. It may be notable one day, or it may fade away. Time will tell, but per WP:N, Wikipedia articles cover notable topics—those that have gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 21:00, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep for now. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:32, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Dwight Eisenhower visited Korea during the Korean War, but did so as president-elect, not as president. (I mention this because I thought he had visited that war zone while president.) A US president visiting a war zone in any case is an unusual & rare event; when was the last time a ruling monarch personally led an army into combat? -- llywrch (talk) 16:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW is apparent here. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 05:54, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine → Biden–Zelenskyy meeting – Consistent with other articles such as Kim–Putin meetings. Interstellarity (talk) 13:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For it to be "Consistent with other articles..." it would surely be → Biden–Zelenskyy meetings, no? They just met in D.C. in December. Otherwise 2023 Biden–Zelenskyy meeting (allowing for later rename/addition of plural, if appropriate), although I'm not convinced we even need the article. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 15:24, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Ukraine has been notified of this discussion. Fuzheado | Talk 21:44, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose they've met more than once. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:34, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose That is an ambiguous title and the visit needs to be specified. As far as geopolitics and foreign policy are concerned, this was much more than a mere meeting (especially, per above, that they had met before). Ppt91 ^talk 17:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose They have met more than once, making it incredibly vague, and with the article Kim-Putin meetings that you mentioned, it's named that way because it applies to multiple meetings, this is a specific meeting and it's notable enough to be it's own article.

Max BuddyRoo (talk) 19:34, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose per Fuzheado, Ppt91, and Max BuddyRoo. Treetoes023 (talk) 03:00, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose per above. There is no need to move this page—2023 visit by Joe Biden to Ukraine is very clear. Compusolus (talk) 03:15, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose. ditto. Tdmurlock (talk) 08:00, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - All opposes are strong, so don't need to say that. Proposed target is not consistent, per JohnFromPinckney, and a strong rationale would be needed to propose a move during an ongoing merge discussion. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:09, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose - As has been stated by others, Biden and Zelenskyy have met previously in Washington. Also, this article covers the entire visit and not just the time the two spent in conversation. ErrorDestroyer (talk) 12:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose - per all of the above. BogLogs (talk) 00:51, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.