Talk:2021 Israeli legislative election

New Hope

Why does New Hope have 2 here (derech eretz) and 3 on the opinion pollings page? Idan (talk) 21:44, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I think the third New Hope MK is Yifat Shasha-Biton. My understanding is that because she remained a member of the Kulanu faction within the Likud, she did not have to resign her seat when she defected. Jacoby531 (talk) 09:48, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Jacoby531, ideally the seats should be the same on both pages idc who it is Idan (talk) 10:27, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Shasha-Biton remains a Likud MK until dissolution unless she officially transfers parties. I've updated the polling tables. Number 57 13:22, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

To clarify the legal situation: If you actively defect from a party, or if you are declared to have defected based on your actions, you have to resign from the Knesset if you want to run on a list with another party in the next election. But if you do not take actions sufficient to label you a defector, you can run on any list you want.

Of course there is no objective measure as to how many votes, and the importance thereof, will mark you as a defector if you abstain/oppose the rest of your party. Like everything else, it's a political question. The Knesset committee held a hearing on the matter the other day and there was not a majority in favor of labeling Shasha-Biton as a defector, therefore she is not a defector. As long as she does not vote against the Likud party line on anything too major, she can stay a member of the party even as she runs against it on a different list. Kimpire (talk) 08:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

March 2021 Israeli legislative election

The article should specify that this is for March 2021. At the current rate of elections, Israel will have 1-2 more elections this year so we need to be specific. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3024:18F1:6400:88A4:6071:C0E0:7491 (talk) 21:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Assuming that more elections would be held this violates WP:CRYSTAL. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:41, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Yamina/New Right

Hi

Will Bennett's party contest as Yamina or as New Right? --Panam2014 (talk) 12:43, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Panam2014: According to the CEC website that are running as Yamina. Number 57 13:16, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: and are Yamina and Blue and White, parties or alliances? --Panam2014 (talk) 13:28, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately the CEC website doesn't yet show this for these two lists. For many lists it includes information on the party affiliations of the listed members (e.g. Joint List or Likud (all candidates are listed as being Likud aside from Ofir Sofer, who is listed as representing the Atid Ehad party)). Number 57 13:33, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57: the new color of the party is blue, not yellow. So it should be changed. Can I have the code of the new color? --Panam2014 (talk) 00:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

You can edit it at Template:Yamina/meta/color. Cheers, Number 57 11:57, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Changing this one would change it in all the old pages and create inconsistencies with diagrams and all. In this sort of situation, a new template Yamina2021 should be created, imo.--Aréat (talk) 17:27, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

@Number 57 and Aréat: I am not able to have the color codes of the new color. --Panam2014 (talk) 01:52, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

IP-hopping vandal

What should be done about the vandal who keeps changing Likud's ideology from National liberalism to National conservatism? They just reverted yet again, while I'm writing this. David O. Johnson (talk) 22:27, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I asked to put Semi-protection on the article in Wikipedia:Requests for page protection Sokuya (talk) 23:09, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. David O. Johnson (talk) 23:47, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Sokuya, it was declined [1], since your earlier request had already been declined yesterday [2], but El_C came through. That's one less thing we have to worry about. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:35, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

At your service, gentlemen. Keep on keeping on! El_C 03:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

New Hope

Well, that was quite a spectacular crash and burn. Was there a particular reason the party went from a strong second in the polls to being close to being one of the smallest parties to win seats? I wonder whether it might be worth adding some commentary to the opinion polls section to explain the movements. Cheers, Number 57 11:51, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, please, definitely would be good to do so. There's a description of their slide here, but more would be good. Bondegezou (talk) 12:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Likud's ideology is tabulated as "national liberalism"

I realize Israel is very well-served for many even more right-wing parties, and that "Liberal" appears in its English name (as is the case with various other pretty right-wing parties, often with pretty hard-right elements, such as Australia's), but "national liberalism" does seem seem a useful or even accurate primary descriptor of Likud's ideological position. "Right-wing populism" or "national populism" would seem more apt. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Relatedly, Yesh Atid–Telem are here described as having an ideology of "Social liberalism". It's not sourced here, and nor does such a description even appear on its own WP article. Rather it's there described as... national liberal, among other things. So much ideological agreement, it seems! Let's stick to descriptions that are sourced, and ideally ones that are internally consistent too, please. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 00:34, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Article seems unnecessarily confusing for non-Israelis like me

It might perhaps help if there were a section giving some indication of something like possible coalition groupings (eg pro-Netanyahu parties, anti-Netanyahu parties, in-between parties, etc, or whatever groupings have been used in various opinion polls, etc). Tlhslobus (talk) 16:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The article is about very confusing matter. This are no simple and persistent definitions of parties (eg pro-Netanyahu parties, anti-Netanyahu parties, in-between parties e.t.c), and the article cannot be very clear about it. One party is pro-Netanyahu in the morning, anti-Netanyahu in the afternoon, and pro-Netanyahu once again in the evening. Flayer (talk) 19:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't think that that is a sufficient argument for not including some sort of background on what the individual parties' thoughts on a Netanyahu premiership. In wikipedia, relevant information like this is really important when trying to present an accurate description of the real-word. --MrMineHeads (talk) 22:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I pretty much agree. I'm sure we can find plenty of RS stating that the main issue of the campaign was who will sit with Netanyahu and who won't (i.e. establishing relevance), and also find RS stating which parties pledged to sit with Netanyahu, which pledged not to, and which kept the door open to both sides (Yamina and Ra'am). Jacoby531 (talk) 22:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I think this should be possible -- to some extent, at least. Of course, whether the reader is less confused or more at the end of such an exercise may be a different question. Trouble is, this is the fourth in a series of inconclusive elections, and precisely as inconclusive as the last, and with the lack of a previous stable arrangement making it less transparent if there were an actual outgoing coalition. So the upsum won't be a very satisfying 'BibiBloc +/- N, AntiBiBi -/+ N'. Maybe #5 will be slightly clearer... 109.255.211.6 (talk) 02:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Good point Flayer. I think it's also important to walk a fine line and not fall into WP:OR or undue interpretation of the data. A government formation session at the bottom of the page (or in a separate article) with the party positions on sitting with Likud (as Jacoby531 could be a possibility. In past articles, we have shown the previous government coalition parties as a sum at the top of the page for opinion polls. I think for some of the recent elections this was impossible, as a coalition wasn't formed, but with this most recent election one could theoretically show the departing government coalition as it stood before the campaign started. Even then, you get back to Flayer's point. In the last election for instance Blue and White was an "anti-Netanyahu" party, as was the Labor Party. However, both the Labor Party and the Israeli Resilience Party (one of the members of the B&W alliance) were in the last government coalition! At some point, we need to leave it to readers to establish their own opinions and conclusions. Bkissin (talk) 02:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

It's of course not OR if the article reports RS on who's consistently in either bloc, who's flipped before, and who has "will turn their coat at the first whiff of a ministerial post" written all over them. Of course, such sources likely don't agree in any straightforward manner, hence it's unlikely to make the presentation any more straightforward. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 02:17, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

This article from Haaretz may be of use for establishing which parties belong to each bloc. Jacoby531 (talk) 16:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a nice article (and graphic), though as Haaretz itself notes, their take on what the 'pro-Netanyahu bloc' is differs from Netanyahu's. And also from one of the latter's own professed view. So reproducing something similar here might need either a big asterisk, or a 'shades of red and blue' approach. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 19:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Religious Zionist Party

I think that there's a bit of confusion with this party. In this article, you link to the Religious Zionist Party, that in the party article it's said that's the same as the National Union–Tkuma. But in the Hebrew Wikipedia they have two articles, one for National Union–Tkuma: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%90%D7%99%D7%97%D7%95%D7%93_%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%90%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%99_%E2%80%93_%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%94 and another for The Religious Zionism: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%94%D7%A6%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%93%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%AA_(%D7%A8%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%94) that it seems to be the list that includes National Union, Otzma Yehudit and Noam. I also thinked that The Religious Zionism was only a rebranding of National Union-Tkuma, but maybe not if in the Hebrew Wikipedia they are separated articles. --Jordi G (talk) 20:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

My understanding is that what's happened here is there is a RZ party, which is synonymous with National Union–Tkuma, and a RZ list, which comprises the RZP, Otzma Yehudit, and Noam. en. combines the RZP and the RZL into one article (in possibly a less than 100% clear way), whereas on he. they're separate. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 02:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. It seems that's what you say.--Jordi G (talk) 09:10, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Number of Knesset seats

I wanted to check if the number of Knesset seats reported by Ynet [3] and Haaretz [4] would be relevant to include in the article, or if these are considered too preliminary? AntonSamuel (talk) 09:17, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

The issue is whether those seat projections are taken at the same time as the latest vote count cited in the results table. If they are older than the latest vote tally, they are not necessarily correct... Number 57 10:59, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Ra'am or United Arab List

Can the article make up its mind whether to go with Ra'am or United Arab List? Bondegezou (talk) 14:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Ra'am is the abbreviation of United Arab List, so Ra'am is used when UTJ is used Braganza (talk) 10:31, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

When should seat allocations be updated?

Hi,

There have been a few users making good faith edits on various party articles so that they are up-to-date with the election allocations, though my understanding is it's still too early to change them. When is the right time to update the seat allocations? Thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 23:35, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

@WMSR, Number 57, Braganza, Rh0809, and Zvikorn: When should we update seat numbers for parties? Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 03:37, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

i think so the final results were published Braganza (talk) 07:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

David O. Johnson, now is fine. Final results are prettu much here Idan (username is Zvikorn) (talk) 09:33, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't think they are. When the CEC finalise the result, they remove the withdrawn parties from the total – see what they did with Tzomet in the 2020 election results (prior to the final update, they were recording the votes cast for the party as you can see in a snapshot here). Pinging Thomascampbell123, as you claimed the results are 'certified' – where are you getting this from? Number 57 12:45, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

It says that 100% are reporting. Thomascampbell123 (talk) 15:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Where does it say that? I can't see any reporting stats on the CEC website. Number 57 16:03, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

This article from Times of Israel says that "Next Wednesday, March 31, the Central Elections Committee will present the official election results to President Reuven Rivlin. The CEC has noted that though all votes have been tallied, the process is still being double-checked, and until the results are handed over to Rivlin, slight changes are still possible... However, such changes are at this point unlikely." Basically, it looks like 100% of votes have been counted, but the results have not been fully certified. Jacoby531 (talk) 17:36, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

OK, so next Wednesday is when the various party articles should be updated with the tallies. Cheers, Number 57 17:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the standard shouldn't be when they're entirely certain to be final -- though we're shouldn't describe them as such, if they're not, of course! -- but on what's reliably citable. If a consensus of usable sources say 'they're not final, but the results are almost certainly going to be [this]', then that's what the article should be saying, rather than version-freezing some earlier estimates as a matter of principle. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 19:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Because for US elections final results come years after the actual election. Idan (username is Zvikorn) (talk) 14:51, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

The results have been given to Rivlin: [5]. Feel free to update now. David O. Johnson (talk) 08:06, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Again, final, certain, and official aren't the standard for inclusion in Wikipedia. What's said in a consensus of reliable sources is. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:19, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

We should update it Braganza (talk) 15:44, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

MKs who switch parties

Hi,

I had a quick question about the "Members of the Knesset who lost their seats" section; if an MK leaves one party and joins another, but doesn't make it into the Knesset (like Michal Shir), should their party be listed as what they were elected as originally or their later party? Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 00:44, 6 April 2021 (UTC)